Australian Politics Forum - Time The Rich Paid Their Huge Debt To Society

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Re: Time The Rich Paid Their Huge Debt To Society
Reply #165 - Sep 15^th, 2014 at 10:25am

aquascoot wrote on Sep 15^th, 2014 at 10:15am:

gone wrote on Sep 15^th, 2014 at 10:00am:

jockohomo3d wrote on Sep 15^th, 2014 at 9:54am:

gone wrote on Sep 15^th, 2014 at 9:51am:

BigOl64 wrote on Sep 15^th, 2014 at 8:33am:

The poor need to shut the f....k up and just quietly sit in the corner where they can't be seen or heard. Im sick of their constant bleating. If you hate being poor do something about it, and rememeber smoking and whinging are not employable skills.

That's exactly what the dole is: It's 'shut up'-money. It's designed by the ultra rich to shut up the poor, so they don't start a revolution. That keeps the middle class slaving for the ultra rich. And year after year more dumb, brainwashed, middle class conformist sheeple get shafted by the ultra rich and get thrown into the pool of the poor, until one day there are so many poor people that the revolution cannot be prevented any longer.

So where do you fit into the scheme of things??

I forsee the revolution. Cool

Revolution Cheesy

so the poor want a revolution so they can miss out on free healthcare, free education, subsidised housing, centrelink for life Cheesy

bring it on!!!

when pansi and the other revolutionary leftards turn up at the farm gate i'll enjoy killing a beast and cutting it up to feed my dogs in front of them.

might even chuck them a few bones to fight over (but only if they say thank you Mr Pie Creator)

The hungry, landless poor will have no choice. When a certain level of poverty is reached in society, revolution is the logical consequence. It has happened many times in history before. It's like a physical law. I HAS to happen. Just like when you drop a stone, it MUST fall to the ground. When the gap between rich and poor grows bigger and bigger and bigger, a revolution MUST happen. It is PHYSICAL LAW.

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gone Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 744 somewhere Gender:	Re: Time The Rich Paid Their Huge Debt To Society Reply #166 - Sep 15^th, 2014 at 10:26am error double post
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longweekend58

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Re: Time The Rich Paid Their Huge Debt To Society
Reply #167 - Sep 15^th, 2014 at 10:35am

ImSpartacus2 wrote on Sep 15^th, 2014 at 9:41am:

BigOl64 wrote on Sep 15^th, 2014 at 8:28am:

Kytro wrote on Sep 15^th, 2014 at 8:15am:

aquascoot wrote on Sep 15^th, 2014 at 8:04am:

"time the poor said a huge thank you to the rich for their pie creation"

You are completely deluded. The rich don't create the pie.

Absolutely it is the poor that do all the hard yards

Sitting around doing f...k all is the main pie producting effort

Not producing anything other than more ferals to put on the dole

Whinging about how they should get more for doing less

Yep it is the poor that we should be thanking, in fact if we all went on the dole this country would just boom, because none of us would be rich and we would have no-one to hate or blame.

Angry

One thing is for certain. If the rich down tools tomorrow there will be a new set of rich to take their place the following day. There is nothing special that the rich bring to the table that can't be replaced and isn't already abundant in the rest of the population. The rich have always overstated their worth and understated the worth of everyone else because that's how they justify their entitlement to wealth. Aqua is a good example. His world would crumble if he couldn't grade human beings into more and less worthwhile and whatever test he uses you can always be sure that we will, coincidentally, find him in the more worthwhile categories. The wealthy are like the wheels of a car that say, if it wasn't for us you wouldn't have a car. The engine and all the other components they want us to believe are of little or no value.

what an incredibly ignorant statement. if the rich 'downed tools' they would do so by closing their businesses at which point unemployment would be about 60%. good luck with that!

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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aquascoot

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Re: Time The Rich Paid Their Huge Debt To Society
Reply #168 - Sep 15^th, 2014 at 10:38am

oh eagle eyes , you silly billy.

thanks to the pie creators creating SO MUCH DAM PIE, the poor today live better than medieval kings.

they have world class health care
all the modern trappings , safe cars to drive, running water, so much food that obesity is now the main problem in many poorer communities,
they have plasma screens, cable, the internet and smart phones.

a, so-called poor person in OZ (please, youre making me laugh typing this) has a standard of living superior to Queen Victorias.
if they want to throw a revolution or , indeed if they want to post pictures of Gina , it just shows that the green eyed monster of envy has taken control of their amygdila. they should be demonstrating in the streets thanking all the innovators, movers and shakers for this new world of prosperity they were so fortunate to be born into

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John Smith

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Re: Time The Rich Paid Their Huge Debt To Society
Reply #169 - Sep 15^th, 2014 at 10:39am

Lord Herbert wrote on Sep 15^th, 2014 at 8:32am:

John Smith wrote on Sep 15^th, 2014 at 8:30am:

aquascoot wrote on Sep 15^th, 2014 at 8:04am:

the rich eventually realise they cant take it with them. they have to plough it all back into the economy.

scoot you are dreaming .... the rich lock it up into trust funds and do everything in their power to make sure their children can't just squirrel it away, now I know you are going to cite donations made by various rich to various charities, but look at how much money they squirrel away compared to what they donate ... they don't plough it back into the economy, they plough it back into their investment portfolios

Upon which enormous taxes are paid which allows the government the finances to fund Centrelink and Foreign Aid.

in most case tax is paid at the minimum rates since all their investments are in comapnies etc ..... if that money were distruibuted amongst the poorer they would too pay tax on it, and at higher rates ... not only that but they would spend it rather than squirrel it away, thereby driving the economy

its a myth that the rich support the poor, its the other way around

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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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John Smith

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Re: Time The Rich Paid Their Huge Debt To Society
Reply #170 - Sep 15^th, 2014 at 10:42am

aquascoot wrote on Sep 15^th, 2014 at 8:32am:

Did you know john, that the black population in the USA is , by a mile, the richest black population on earth. By 1000's of %.

trickle down economics works.

Why is it good to be a poor person in a capitalist country.
because the pie is shared.

Why do Mexicans risk their lives to get across the border and be farm laborers?
because, a great nation like the USA, the home of capitalism, a country that celebrates success and celebrates greed and celebrates "getting rich" is

THE LAND OF OPPORTUNITY.

would the poor rather eat grass in north korea where there are no rich entrepreneurs or would they rather go to a great capitalist competitive, "pull yourself up by the bootstraps" nation like the USA.

I know where i'd rather take my family if I was down to my last dollar.

there are other factors at play in Africa and Mexico ... or do you think the money made from the African minerals trickels down to the poor? rubbish, the rich use the poor blacks to get their pie, and then run away with it ...

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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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John Smith

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Re: Time The Rich Paid Their Huge Debt To Society
Reply #171 - Sep 15^th, 2014 at 10:45am

longweekend58 wrote on Sep 15^th, 2014 at 10:35am:

ImSpartacus2 wrote on Sep 15^th, 2014 at 9:41am:

BigOl64 wrote on Sep 15^th, 2014 at 8:28am:

Kytro wrote on Sep 15^th, 2014 at 8:15am:

aquascoot wrote on Sep 15^th, 2014 at 8:04am:

"time the poor said a huge thank you to the rich for their pie creation"

You are completely deluded. The rich don't create the pie.

Absolutely it is the poor that do all the hard yards

Sitting around doing f...k all is the main pie producting effort

Not producing anything other than more ferals to put on the dole

Whinging about how they should get more for doing less

Yep it is the poor that we should be thanking, in fact if we all went on the dole this country would just boom, because none of us would be rich and we would have no-one to hate or blame.

Angry

One thing is for certain. If the rich down tools tomorrow there will be a new set of rich to take their place the following day. There is nothing special that the rich bring to the table that can't be replaced and isn't already abundant in the rest of the population. The rich have always overstated their worth and understated the worth of everyone else because that's how they justify their entitlement to wealth. Aqua is a good example. His world would crumble if he couldn't grade human beings into more and less worthwhile and whatever test he uses you can always be sure that we will, coincidentally, find him in the more worthwhile categories. The wealthy are like the wheels of a car that say, if it wasn't for us you wouldn't have a car. The engine and all the other components they want us to believe are of little or no value.

what an incredibly ignorant statement. if the rich 'downed tools' they would do so by closing their businesses at which point unemployment would be about 60%. good luck with that!

nevertheless, its true ... someone else would take their place

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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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longweekend58

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Re: Time The Rich Paid Their Huge Debt To Society
Reply #172 - Sep 15^th, 2014 at 10:55am

ImSpartacus2 wrote on Sep 14^th, 2014 at 6:34pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Sep 14^th, 2014 at 6:08pm:

ImSpartacus2 wrote on Sep 14^th, 2014 at 6:02pm:

BigOl64 wrote on Sep 14^th, 2014 at 5:35pm:

ImSpartacus2 wrote on Sep 14^th, 2014 at 1:45pm:

Bobby's claim re Banks: "Banks rip off customers with high interest rates & fees" -
bigol64's post: "Post the supporting evidence and Ill be more than happy to become a non-denier" (Underlining mine)
My Post: "I can provide you with the following regarding Bobby's claims about the banks. .... THE SHAREHOLDER STEPHEN MAYNE, Ever since federal and state governments privatised various public sector banks in the 1990s, Australians have increasingly suffered the world's most expensive banking system. and Skyrocketing transaction fees, "

Now did I prove anything to the infamous Longy standard of "Nothing is provable that Longy doesn't like? No I did not
Did I prove it on the criminal standard, beyond a reasonable doubt? No I did not
Did I prove it on the civil standard, on the balance of probabilities? Emmmm, closer but no I don't think so unless no contrary evidence introduced.
Did I do as asked and post supporting evidence re Bobbies claim about the Banks. Clearly YES!!!
Burden of proof shifts @hole. We have produced credible evidence of our claim re the banks now you go disprove it. Do your own research!!!

Not even close sunshine, it made no mention of the chinese recieiving 0.25% interests or the shareholder spread for mining companies, both of which I called bullsh1t and ask for evidence.

You did post something while true had nothing at all to do with booby's post.

Doesn't say much for either of you.

Oh right and I'm gong to put any credence in your adjudication of the arguments. Even putting aside your obvious conflict of interest there is the added complication of you being a total imbecile and incapable of making the simplest logical connections.

then how about formulating an actual argument based on more than a few people you don't like. you don't think high income earners pay enough income tax then state it and make a suggestion on what to change and then defend it. don't make it a whiny little bit of target practice at a few odd people.

Again, have a look at the OP. That's what this thread is about and that's what I'm interested in discussing. Do you agree with the 3 principles I have set out. First you say no, then you say yes but really angry (so no one knows what your really saying) and always posing these absurd exaggerated distortions of what is said and attribute ridiculous motives and then bog the thread down on minutiae about whether there has been sufficient proof submitted about percentages of this and percentages that. Address the 3 principles I have set out in the OP. Tell me why you agree with each or disagree with each'. Let Bobby deal with bigol64 (hes not having any trouble from what I can tell) and we can have a useful discussion

your 3 'principles' are no such thing. they are three opinions and are largely bogus.

Quote:

(i) you receive a far greater benefit from the society that makes your wealth possible and applying the basic principles of user pays, you owe more

if you are saying that if you earn more you should pay more than how is that already not happening? higher earners can sometimes pay 10-100 times as much income tax a alow income earner. how is that not 'more'?
Quote:

(ii) The sacrifices that the wealthy few make to protect and serve the community from which they get their wealth is infinitesimal compared to the sacrifices made on a daily basis by the vastly more numerous majority in the community

that is just nonsense. you seem to think that high earners don't work as hard as low-earners. that is simply wrong. business owners generally work far harder than normal employess and most high earners havs studied hard and worked at the same timt to get the jobs that pay well and then often work long hours when there.

Quote:

the wealthy have far more to lose then the rest of us if society collapsed.

whether that is true or not is largely pointless

in summary: you OP is rubbish and you have still not expoused any concepts or pricniples. You are merely whining that some have more than you.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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longweekend58

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Re: Time The Rich Paid Their Huge Debt To Society
Reply #173 - Sep 15^th, 2014 at 10:56am

Kytro wrote on Sep 14^th, 2014 at 6:34pm:

BigOl64 wrote on Sep 14^th, 2014 at 6:27pm:

You can be industrious and thick as pig sh1t and pretty much get nowhere in life.

I think stupidity has a greater effect on self reliance than effort, work smart not hard and all that. But a combination of both is an absolute garuntee of a life in the dole queue.

That depends on your circumstances. If you inherit the money, for example and it's managed for you, then you may avoid that fate. Alternatively your family may feel responsible and keep bailing you out.

Where people are in life is driven mostly by circumstances, people don't just "decide" to be lazy and stupid.

you don't think laziness is a personal decision and choice? 'stupid' is also not merely intelligence but how it is applied. most stupid people I know are so because they refuse to learn and to take advice. that is a CHOICE as well.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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longweekend58

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Re: Time The Rich Paid Their Huge Debt To Society
Reply #174 - Sep 15^th, 2014 at 11:00am

ImSpartacus2 wrote on Sep 14^th, 2014 at 8:52pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Sep 14^th, 2014 at 8:07pm:

ImSpartacus2 wrote on Sep 14^th, 2014 at 7:42pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Sep 14^th, 2014 at 7:16pm:

ImSpartacus2 wrote on Sep 14^th, 2014 at 7:06pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Sep 14^th, 2014 at 6:52pm:

BigOl64 wrote on Sep 14^th, 2014 at 6:27pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Sep 14^th, 2014 at 6:22pm:

BigOl64 wrote on Sep 14^th, 2014 at 6:18pm:

Kytro wrote on Sep 14^th, 2014 at 6:13pm:

aquascoot wrote on Sep 14^th, 2014 at 5:48pm:

time the poor risked something, created something, toiled over something and won something , other then a smacking whinging contest Wink

Oh yeah, people are poor because they don't work hard enough, what utter nonsense, there is no correlation between how hard one works and how wealthy they are.

Yeah there is an argument that people are poor because they aare lazy, but the main reason is that they are stupid, combine that with being lazy and a cradle to grave welfare system and you got a typical day down the dole office.

Pity self respect is something you earn and not part of your welfare hand out.

that is a bit simplistic. BUT if you are lazy you will tend to be poor. if you don't work and don't have a job, likewise. but if you study, go without and work hard you will generally do well. Uf you are prepared to put in the risk of your own business you may de quite well or even get legitimately rich. but lazy will pretty much always give you poverty

You can be industrious and thick as pig sh1t and pretty much get nowhere in life.

I think stupidity has a greater effect on self reliance than effort, work smart not hard and all that. But a combination of both is an absolute garuntee of a life in the dole queue.

you have a point. you still need to have a modicum of skill as well, but effort and hard work will get you further than sheer talent. when you have both however, you can really boom!

Or not. So many variables in the mix that the idea that capitalism rewards merit is really absurd. Have a look at ICAC and the Lib MPs lining up one after the other with stories of corruption and wrong doing. IMO capitalism is more adept at rewarding dishonesty and deceit then hard work and skill. I believe the story goes (and your quite welcome to produce evidence to the contrary - I'm not totally vouching for it) that when Bill Gates sold DOS to IBM he didn't have a computer operating system to sell them. After his meeting he arranged to buy or lease DOS from the creator for a pittance and who of course had no idea that Gates was on-leasing it to IBM. Regardless of what you think of the morals of that story (and if true I think Gates acted despicably) I think its fair to say that Gates got more highly rewarded for the skill and hard work that went into creating DOS then the creator did.

again... just more examples and no clear-cut CONCEPTS

and Gates sold DOS to IBM after IBM was rebuffed by another idiotic O/S writer (DR/DOS or CP/M). Gates put on the blue suit, got the job and then bought the product. he took risk and worked hard.

unlike IMFULLOFIT and so many other complainers.

Yes exactly what I was saying. The system didn't reward the skill and hard work that went into creating the product that ushered in the home computer age. It went to the shifty guy (you know, like the suited corrupt Liberal MP guys fronting before ICAC) who cheated the creator of his hard work (it really is the story of capitalism all over).

And its significant that you characterize the person who created DOS (the product that ushered in the home computer age) as an idiotic O/S writer and Gates as the one who worked hard because this is another oft used tactic of capitalism; always demean the other person's contribution and overstate your own and that way you appear entitled when you clearly are not.

Gates sought a market, bought a product and onsold it. its called BUSINESS. you don't seem to have any idea what it is.

and still. you cant articulate concepts, merely examples. you are just jealous, that is all. a real thinker would propose an alternative. a jealous person does what YOU do.

Yes the capitalist variant of "business", which even your account of the Gates story clearly demonstrates, is rarely about rewarding hard work and skill.

Yes and the "you're just jealous" response is what you do when you're stuck for a rebuttal.

As to your confused remark about "more examples and no concepts" you really do need to articulate what it is you're confused about so that I can reword the concepts I have already set out in terms that even an 18 year old (no better still) even a 10 year old can understand.

woolworths doesn't grow food. it buys it and onsells it. My business doesn't train using my expertise alone. I 'buy' expertise and onsell it. your point????

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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longweekend58

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Re: Time The Rich Paid Their Huge Debt To Society
Reply #175 - Sep 15^th, 2014 at 11:03am

Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 14^th, 2014 at 9:07pm:

ImSpartacus2 wrote on Sep 14^th, 2014 at 8:52pm:

Yes the capitalist variant of "business", which even your account of the Gates story clearly demonstrates, is rarely about rewarding hard work and skill.

Yes and the "you're just jealous" response is what you do when you're stuck for a rebuttal.

As to your confused remark about "more examples and no concepts" you really do need to articulate what it is you're confused about so that I can reword the concepts I have already set out in terms that even an 18 year old (no better still) even a 10 year old can understand.

longloser is wrong about the gates story. gates never wrote the original IBM PC DOS. They bought a ready made OS for the 8086 from a company called Seattle Computing for $50,000. IBM slipped up on the royalty arrangements by allowing microsoft to sell MS-DOS to any other computer vendor and as soon as clones hit the market bill gates fate was sealed Wink

This is not a case of working hard but rather being in the right place at the right time with the right product whgich is something that is more than likely never to happen in Australia because most aussies are risk averse when it comes to technology.

I never said Gates wrote MS DOS. in fact I said he bought it from another company an on-sold it to IBM after another company refused to sell their product. I know a friend of this clown and he was so angry at himself that he became an alcoholic and died falling drunk from a bar stool. my friend stopped drinking as a result (both are pilots).

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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longweekend58

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Re: Time The Rich Paid Their Huge Debt To Society
Reply #176 - Sep 15^th, 2014 at 11:06am

Kytro wrote on Sep 15^th, 2014 at 8:15am:

aquascoot wrote on Sep 15^th, 2014 at 8:04am:

"time the poor said a huge thank you to the rich for their pie creation"

You are completely deluded. The rich don't create the pie.

they don't?? you might want to chat about that with the people that own companies that employ thousands of people or the large shareholders of companies that employ hundreds of thousands of people.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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longweekend58 Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 45675 Gender:	Re: Time The Rich Paid Their Huge Debt To Society Reply #177 - Sep 15^th, 2014 at 11:09am gone wrote on Sep 15^th, 2014 at 10:26am: error double post oh if only that were your ONLY error!
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longweekend58

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Re: Time The Rich Paid Their Huge Debt To Society
Reply #178 - Sep 15^th, 2014 at 11:10am

John Smith wrote on Sep 15^th, 2014 at 10:45am:

longweekend58 wrote on Sep 15^th, 2014 at 10:35am:

ImSpartacus2 wrote on Sep 15^th, 2014 at 9:41am:

BigOl64 wrote on Sep 15^th, 2014 at 8:28am:

Kytro wrote on Sep 15^th, 2014 at 8:15am:

aquascoot wrote on Sep 15^th, 2014 at 8:04am:

"time the poor said a huge thank you to the rich for their pie creation"

You are completely deluded. The rich don't create the pie.

Absolutely it is the poor that do all the hard yards

Sitting around doing f...k all is the main pie producting effort

Not producing anything other than more ferals to put on the dole

Whinging about how they should get more for doing less

Yep it is the poor that we should be thanking, in fact if we all went on the dole this country would just boom, because none of us would be rich and we would have no-one to hate or blame.

Angry

One thing is for certain. If the rich down tools tomorrow there will be a new set of rich to take their place the following day. There is nothing special that the rich bring to the table that can't be replaced and isn't already abundant in the rest of the population. The rich have always overstated their worth and understated the worth of everyone else because that's how they justify their entitlement to wealth. Aqua is a good example. His world would crumble if he couldn't grade human beings into more and less worthwhile and whatever test he uses you can always be sure that we will, coincidentally, find him in the more worthwhile categories. The wealthy are like the wheels of a car that say, if it wasn't for us you wouldn't have a car. The engine and all the other components they want us to believe are of little or no value.

what an incredibly ignorant statement. if the rich 'downed tools' they would do so by closing their businesses at which point unemployment would be about 60%. good luck with that!

nevertheless, its true ... someone else would take their place

would they? imagine the rich didn't just DOWN tools but BURNED those tools as well. how many would start new businesses from scratch? only a few. an society would be stone-age for centuries.

mind you, it is a dumb scenario as it would never happen.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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jockohomo3d Full Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 187 Gender:	Re: Time The Rich Paid Their Huge Debt To Society Reply #179 - Sep 15^th, 2014 at 11:17am The rich are nothing without their unders to feed off. If it all went down tomorrow some people would survive but most wouldn't. Not many rich people would have the practical skills to make it. They should always be reminded of that. Without the system we have that works for them they are nothing.
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Poll
Question: Should Gina Reinhart pay more tax?
yes 11 (78.6%) no 3 (21.4%) not sure 0 (0.0%) Total votes: 14 « Created by: Bobby. on: Sep 15^th, 2014 at 9:45am »