Australian Politics Forum - just a LITTLE bit of torture

aquascoot Gold Member Online Australian Politics Posts: 38186 Gender:	Re: It's just a LITTLE bit of torture Reply #15 - Jul 6^th, 2014 at 11:52am Yes, those pics from the civil war are shocking. The tamil tigers truly were scum. Thank god a boat load of them have been sent back by national hero Scott Morrison.
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Grendel

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Re: It's just a LITTLE bit of torture
Reply #16 - Jul 6^th, 2014 at 11:53am

Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Jul 6^th, 2014 at 11:45am:

Grendel wrote on Jul 6^th, 2014 at 11:32am:

The war ended 5 years ago... your crass crap and dishonesty is frightful.

The war is over but the torture and disappearing is current. This was evidenced by first hand accounts of Tamils that have had family members taken by the military. There is a reason that the UN and Hilary Clinton have said it is wrong to send asylum seekers back to Sri Lanka, a country where they may be tortured. I'm sure they are aware that the war is over too. Any more misinformation?

And all those current boat people were safe in India...
Country shoppers.

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Aussie

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Re: It's just a LITTLE bit of torture
Reply #17 - Jul 6^th, 2014 at 11:55am

Grendel wrote on Jul 6^th, 2014 at 11:53am:

Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Jul 6^th, 2014 at 11:45am:

Grendel wrote on Jul 6^th, 2014 at 11:32am:

The war ended 5 years ago... your crass crap and dishonesty is frightful.

The war is over but the torture and disappearing is current. This was evidenced by first hand accounts of Tamils that have had family members taken by the military. There is a reason that the UN and Hilary Clinton have said it is wrong to send asylum seekers back to Sri Lanka, a country where they may be tortured. I'm sure they are aware that the war is over too. Any more misinformation?

And all those current boat people were safe in India...
Country shoppers.

Really, Grendel? Where in India were they?

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Grendel

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Re: It's just a LITTLE bit of torture
Reply #18 - Jul 6^th, 2014 at 11:57am

Aussie wrote on Jul 6^th, 2014 at 11:55am:

Grendel wrote on Jul 6^th, 2014 at 11:53am:

Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Jul 6^th, 2014 at 11:45am:

Grendel wrote on Jul 6^th, 2014 at 11:32am:

The war ended 5 years ago... your crass crap and dishonesty is frightful.

The war is over but the torture and disappearing is current. This was evidenced by first hand accounts of Tamils that have had family members taken by the military. There is a reason that the UN and Hilary Clinton have said it is wrong to send asylum seekers back to Sri Lanka, a country where they may be tortured. I'm sure they are aware that the war is over too. Any more misinformation?

And all those current boat people were safe in India...
Country shoppers.

Really, Grendel? Where in India were they?

You tell me Gunga you've got rellos over there haven't you?
Are you saying the reports that those boats came from india were wrong?
Did your rellos tell you that? Cheesy

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Aussie Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 39969 Gender:	Re: It's just a LITTLE bit of torture Reply #19 - Jul 6^th, 2014 at 12:01pm Come on Grendel. Do I add obfuscation to the growing lidt of symptoms indicative of the Grendel Syndrome? You said they were safe in India. Implicitly, that demands you knew where in India they found this place of personal safety. So, again.....exactly where were they Grendel?
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adelcrow

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Re: It's just a LITTLE bit of torture
Reply #20 - Jul 6^th, 2014 at 12:05pm

Aussie wrote on Jul 6^th, 2014 at 12:01pm:

Come on Grendel. Do I add obfuscation to the growing lidt of symptoms indicative of the Grendel Syndrome? You said they were safe in India. Implicitly, that demands you knew where in India they found this place of personal safety. So, again.....exactly where were they Grendel?

I think the Neo Cons point is that Australia is within it rights to send people off to be raped tortured and murdered because Abbott is a racist git who is trying to use fleeing refugees as a political wedge

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Go the Bunnies

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aussie100percent

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Re: It's just a LITTLE bit of torture
Reply #21 - Jul 6^th, 2014 at 12:05pm

Grendel wrote on Jul 6^th, 2014 at 11:57am:

Aussie wrote on Jul 6^th, 2014 at 11:55am:

Grendel wrote on Jul 6^th, 2014 at 11:53am:

Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Jul 6^th, 2014 at 11:45am:

Grendel wrote on Jul 6^th, 2014 at 11:32am:

The war ended 5 years ago... your crass crap and dishonesty is frightful.

The war is over but the torture and disappearing is current. This was evidenced by first hand accounts of Tamils that have had family members taken by the military. There is a reason that the UN and Hilary Clinton have said it is wrong to send asylum seekers back to Sri Lanka, a country where they may be tortured. I'm sure they are aware that the war is over too. Any more misinformation?

And all those current boat people were safe in India...
Country shoppers.

Really, Grendel? Where in India were they?

You tell me Gunga you've got rellos over there haven't you?
Are you saying the reports that those boats came from india were wrong?
Did your rellos tell you that? Cheesy

grendel you just a little bit wrong .Female's are not safe from the rapist Indian barbarians

Angry

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buzzanddidj

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Re: It's just a LITTLE bit of torture
Reply #22 - Jul 6^th, 2014 at 12:22pm

aquascoot wrote on Jul 6^th, 2014 at 11:52am:

The tamil tigers truly were scum.
Thank god a boat load of them have been sent back by
national hero Scott Morrison.

The Tamil boat exodus to Australia did not happen during Sri Lanka’s 26-year civil war, in which atrocities on both sides – the Sinhalese majority and the Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam – were well documented. Rather, the flood of boats erupted almost three years after the official end to the war in 2009. Between January 2012 and late last year, Australia received more than 8300 Sri Lankans by boat.

Why? Other destination countries are asking the same question. In the foreword to a 2014 report that documents the testimony of 40 Tamils who fled to Britain, South Africa's Archbishop Desmond Tutu writes: "It shows how
anyone remotely connected with the losing side in the civil war is being hunted down, tortured and raped, five years after the guns fell silent. Shockingly, more than half of the abductions in the report took place as recently as 2013-14 ...
The sheer viciousness and brutality of the sexual violence is staggering ... Thirty-five of the witnesses were forced to sign confessions in Sinhala, a language they do not understand."

Even at the height of the influx of Sri Lankan boat people to Australia last year, the Department of Immigration and Border Protection reported that 52 per cent of these asylum seekers were granted protection visas. Traditionally, 90 per cent were found to be genuine refugees, says Emily Howie, director of advocacy and research at the Human Rights Law Centre. And yet the government now wants "all" returned.

Tony Abbott said this week that Sri Lanka was a country "at peace"
.

His analysis contradicted the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade, which continues to warn Australians to exercise a "high degree of caution" due to the unpredictable security environment. Still, on the question of sending Sri Lankans home, Abbott was "absolutely confident that no harm would come to anyone who has been in our charge".

"That is an utterly erroneous presumption," says Ben Saul, professor of international law at the University of Sydney. Saul warns that Australia is at grave risk of being found guilty under international law of refoulement – returning people to a country where their life or freedom would be threatened because of their race, religion, nationality, political opinions or membership of a social group.

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/tamil-asylum-seekers-ghost...

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Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.'

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greggerypeccary

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Re: It's just a LITTLE bit of torture
Reply #23 - Jul 6^th, 2014 at 12:24pm

adelcrow wrote on Jul 6^th, 2014 at 12:05pm:

Aussie wrote on Jul 6^th, 2014 at 12:01pm:

Come on Grendel. Do I add obfuscation to the growing lidt of symptoms indicative of the Grendel Syndrome? You said they were safe in India. Implicitly, that demands you knew where in India they found this place of personal safety. So, again.....exactly where were they Grendel?

I think the Neo Cons point is that Australia is within it rights to send people off to be raped tortured and murdered because Abbott is a racist git who is trying to use fleeing refugees as a political wedge

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GOP = Guardians Of Paedophiles

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Grendel

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Re: It's just a LITTLE bit of torture
Reply #24 - Jul 6^th, 2014 at 12:29pm

Aussie wrote on Jul 6^th, 2014 at 12:01pm:

Come on Grendel. Do I add obfuscation to the growing lidt of symptoms indicative of the Grendel Syndrome? You said they were safe in India. Implicitly, that demands you knew where in India they found this place of personal safety. So, again.....exactly where were they Grendel?

You can add what you like and be as dense as you like... that Lambie line really seems to have really upset you... not my fault you voted for and advocate and support PUP and the buffoons.
Get over it.
Too late to run away from it.

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Armchair_Politician Gold Member Online Australian Politics Posts: 30292 Gender:	Re: It's just a LITTLE bit of torture Reply #25 - Jul 6^th, 2014 at 12:35pm How old are those pics, buzz? I see they're not time-stamped or dated. Could be ten years old for all we know.
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Aussie

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Re: It's just a LITTLE bit of torture
Reply #26 - Jul 6^th, 2014 at 12:38pm

Grendel wrote on Jul 6^th, 2014 at 12:29pm:

Aussie wrote on Jul 6^th, 2014 at 12:01pm:

Come on Grendel. Do I add obfuscation to the growing lidt of symptoms indicative of the Grendel Syndrome? You said they were safe in India. Implicitly, that demands you knew where in India they found this place of personal safety. So, again.....exactly where were they Grendel?

You can add what you like and be as dense as you like... that Lambie line really seems to have really upset you... not my fault you voted for and advocate and support PUP and the buffoons.
Get over it.
Too late to run away from it.

Yeas, obfuscation can safely be added as a tell tale indicator of the Grendel Syndrome. Twice now you have been asked to substantiate your claim that these refugees were safe in India, and twice you have answered totally unresponsively and have jibbered irrelevancies.

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buzzanddidj

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Re: It's just a LITTLE bit of torture
Reply #27 - Jul 6^th, 2014 at 12:44pm

Aussie wrote on Jul 6^th, 2014 at 11:55am:

Grendel wrote on Jul 6^th, 2014 at 11:53am:

Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Jul 6^th, 2014 at 11:45am:

Grendel wrote on Jul 6^th, 2014 at 11:32am:

The war ended 5 years ago... your crass crap and dishonesty is frightful.

The war is over but the torture and disappearing is current. This was evidenced by first hand accounts of Tamils that have had family members taken by the military. There is a reason that the UN and Hilary Clinton have said it is wrong to send asylum seekers back to Sri Lanka, a country where they may be tortured. I'm sure they are aware that the war is over too. Any more misinformation?

And all those current boat people were safe in India...
Country shoppers.

Really, Grendel? Where in India were they?

More than 100,000 Sri Lankan Tamils live in between 115 and 130 refugee camps in Tamil Nadu State in India. Aid workers say that some refugees live in thatched huts, others in small cement blockhouses. There are no proper toilet facilities, bathing facilities or adequate drinking water. There is no rubbish collection, and only some camps have medical facilities. Electricity is provided in some locations, but usually only between 6 am and 6 pm. In some camps there is no electricity for many inmates. Six houses at Thiruvadhavur collapsed in monsoonal rains recently, killing a girl.

http://www.eurekastreet.com.au/article.aspx?aeid=41653#.U7i1cbFaes0

Who WOULDN'T choose an Australian run refugee camp - over an Indian run camp, in Tamil Naidu ?

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'I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians.
Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.'

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austranger

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Re: It's just a LITTLE bit of torture
Reply #28 - Jul 6^th, 2014 at 1:11pm

I'm totally anti Canetoad in most things, except his attitude to illegal immigrants. That said, his actions here are simply wrong. What is happening in Sri Lanka is current, and violent, it's no wonder people are fleeing it. Those refugees on boats should be turned back, they have no right to force their way into Oz, but handing them over to the Sri Lankan Navy is a crime in and of itself.
If they departed from India then they should be returned there, they were safe from SL persecution there, if they left from SL then put them on Manus and let them decide where they want to go, just not HERE. They chose to sail thousands of K's here rather than the far shorter distance to India where there were other Tamil communities to settle in already, so that's not "last recourse", that's economic migration, pure and simple. We have enough people, and problems, why should we be importing more?

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Any day with a smile in it is a good day

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Aussie

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Re: It's just a LITTLE bit of torture
Reply #29 - Jul 6^th, 2014 at 1:32pm

austranger wrote on Jul 6^th, 2014 at 1:11pm:

I'm totally anti Canetoad in most things, except his attitude to illegal immigrants.

There is that mis-use of the word illegal. They are doing nothing illegal.

Quote:

That said, his actions here are simply wrong. What is happening in Sri Lanka is current, and violent, it's no wonder people are fleeing it. Those refugees on boats should be turned back, they have no right to force their way into Oz,

They are forcing nothing. They are peacefully and legally sailing to Australia. The force is coming from Australian agencies who are committing act of piracy on breach of International Law on the High Seas by boarding their vessel and forcing them off that vessel, into another which is then conveying them back from where they fled in direct contravention of the refoulment provisions of the Convention to which we are a signatory.

Quote:

.but handing them over to the Sri Lankan Navy is a crime in and of itself.

Yeas it is, and that is unforgivable, not matter which side of the political divide you occupy.

Quote:

If they departed from India then they should be returned there, they were safe from SL persecution there, if they left from SL then put them on Manus and let them decide where they want to go, just not HERE. They chose to sail thousands of K's here rather than the far shorter distance to India where there were other Tamil communities to settle in already, so that's not "last recourse", that's economic migration, pure and simple. We have enough people, and problems, why should we be importing more?

No. They have rights recognised by International Law (to which Australia has agreed to be bound) to seek asylum as refugees in any Country which also recognises those rights (which does not include either India or Sri Lanka.) If we wish to opt out of those obligations we can, but Abbott wants to eat his cake and have it. He wants the kudos of being seen as leading a humane society (we also get to Chair the UN Security Council for whatever that's worth) but none of the responsibilities which come with that.

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