Australian Politics Forum - Abbott Claims Oz Unsettled B4 British

Andrei.Hicks Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 23818 Carlsbad, CA Gender:	Re: Abbott Claims Oz Unsettled B4 British Reply #30 - Jul 4^th, 2014 at 6:29pm There was no fully functioning country before we arrived and settled the land.
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Aussie Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 39958 Gender:	Re: Abbott Claims Oz Unsettled B4 British Reply #31 - Jul 4^th, 2014 at 6:30pm Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jul 4^th, 2014 at 6:29pm: There was no fully functioning country before we arrived and settled the land. No doubt, you along with Grendel, will tell that to the Martians when they arrive on Earth. Jolly good. Do carry on.
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Lionel Edriess

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Re: Abbott Claims Oz Unsettled B4 British
Reply #32 - Jul 4^th, 2014 at 6:36pm

The Dutch were here before the English and the French met the Fleet at the east coast.

Now tell me, would anyone have preferred Dutch or French colonisation of this continent over that of the English, primitive as it was in those days?

Can anyone here tell me about shovel-head spears? Can anyone here relate the early massacres of remote pioneer men and women?

I possess an American dime (5c) minted in 1775.

Compare the difference - compare the countries.

The Aboriginal, outside metropolitan areas, faces the same problems he did before we arrived - bar one.

The inability, refusal, to adapt.

Is the American Indian to be considered a 'primitive'?

Consider the treatment.

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____ Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 33410 Australia Gender:	Re: Abbott Claims Oz Unsettled B4 British Reply #33 - Jul 4^th, 2014 at 6:36pm Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jul 4^th, 2014 at 6:29pm: There was no fully functioning country before we arrived and settled the land. Thousands of years of settlement including trade across the country. There again this is more about racism than logic to some.
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Grendel

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Re: Abbott Claims Oz Unsettled B4 British
Reply #34 - Jul 4^th, 2014 at 6:37pm

Aussie wrote on Jul 4^th, 2014 at 6:25pm:

Grendel wrote on Jul 4^th, 2014 at 6:23pm:

philperth2010 wrote on Jul 4^th, 2014 at 6:15pm:

Abbott was wrong about Australia not being settled before European occupation.....It would be the same as claiming Britain was not settled before the Romans conquered their land.....Linking early European settlement to foreign infrastructure investment is the argument of a simpleton who has no understanding of how insulting this is to indigenous people whom he claims to represent.....Most of the early infrastructure such as prisons where built by convicts and forced labour of indigenous people!!!

Smiley

Yet he didn't say that he corrected himself to the completely correct if clumsy term "scarcely settled". Even if considering humpies and temporary camps a real form of settlement may be debatable too.

When the Martians arrive, Grendel, and claim Earth is 'scarely settled' you'll agree with them. I get it now.

Maybe I will, after all it is a relative term isn't it.
We have a population of 23 million approx now... yet a quick look at the map would show we are very light on population wise... I'm betting China is thinking we are very underpopulated. Even the Indians may share that opinion.
Do you suppose there were 23 million Aboriginals here over 200 years ago?
11 million perhaps?
5 million maybe?
Their major population centres were where?
Their cities where?
Their major contributions to the world of knowledge were?
They had an army, navy?
They had a cohesive society and central government?

Or were they a small group of tribal even nomadic natives occupying a very large continent, which they had scarcely settled?

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Grendel

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Re: Abbott Claims Oz Unsettled B4 British
Reply #35 - Jul 4^th, 2014 at 6:40pm

____ wrote on Jul 4^th, 2014 at 6:36pm:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jul 4^th, 2014 at 6:29pm:

There was no fully functioning country before we arrived and settled the land.

Thousands of years of settlement including trade across the country.
There again this is more about racism than logic to some.

And then there is the patently stupid...

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____

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Re: Abbott Claims Oz Unsettled B4 British
Reply #36 - Jul 4^th, 2014 at 6:42pm

Grendel wrote on Jul 4^th, 2014 at 6:37pm:

Aussie wrote on Jul 4^th, 2014 at 6:25pm:

Grendel wrote on Jul 4^th, 2014 at 6:23pm:

philperth2010 wrote on Jul 4^th, 2014 at 6:15pm:

Abbott was wrong about Australia not being settled before European occupation.....It would be the same as claiming Britain was not settled before the Romans conquered their land.....Linking early European settlement to foreign infrastructure investment is the argument of a simpleton who has no understanding of how insulting this is to indigenous people whom he claims to represent.....Most of the early infrastructure such as prisons where built by convicts and forced labour of indigenous people!!!

Smiley

Yet he didn't say that he corrected himself to the completely correct if clumsy term "scarcely settled". Even if considering humpies and temporary camps a real form of settlement may be debatable too.

When the Martians arrive, Grendel, and claim Earth is 'scarely settled' you'll agree with them. I get it now.

Maybe I will, after all it is a relative term isn't it.
We have a population of 23 million approx now... yet a quick look at the map would show we are very light on population wise... I'm betting China is thinking we are very underpopulated. Even the Indians may share that opinion.
Do you suppose there were 23 million Aboriginals here over 200 years ago?
11 million perhaps?
5 million maybe?
Their major population centres were where?
Their cities where?
Their major contributions to the world of knowledge were?
They had an army, navy?
They had a cohesive society and central government?

Or were they a small group of tribal even nomadic natives occupying a very large continent, which they had scarcely settled?

You along with Abbott are classifying unsettled in very narrow westernised terms.
Aboriginals were prior invasion, more evolved than current Australians.

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____

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Re: Abbott Claims Oz Unsettled B4 British
Reply #37 - Jul 4^th, 2014 at 6:44pm

Grendel wrote on Jul 4^th, 2014 at 6:40pm:

____ wrote on Jul 4^th, 2014 at 6:36pm:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jul 4^th, 2014 at 6:29pm:

There was no fully functioning country before we arrived and settled the land.

Thousands of years of settlement including trade across the country.
There again this is more about racism than logic to some.

And then there is the patently stupid...
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_gcA0ZuKGkI8/S0iXdwgPDLI/AAAAAAAAFdw/CYJYbsVycq4/s400/h...

The only issue I have, and it's obvious to those that don't post the same picture in every thread they feel out of depth in, is pointless posts.

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Aussie Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 39958 Gender:	Re: Abbott Claims Oz Unsettled B4 British Reply #38 - Jul 4^th, 2014 at 6:46pm Quote: You along with Abbott are classifying unsettled in very narrow westernised terms. Exactly. When the Martians turn up, they will apply their concept of 'settlement' to what we have achieved, even though we would say we're pretty clevah and happy chaps thank you Mr Martian Abbott.
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gizmo_2655 Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 16010 South West NSW Gender:	Re: Abbott Claims Oz Unsettled B4 British Reply #39 - Jul 4^th, 2014 at 6:54pm Aussie wrote on Jul 4^th, 2014 at 5:09pm: Dear Tony, We owe our existence to an invasion of an occupied Land, easy military defeat of the Natives, appalling subsequent treatment of them, and British Colonisation. Yours faithfully, Aussie. No, actually we DON'T...
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OldnCrusty

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Re: Abbott Claims Oz Unsettled B4 British
Reply #40 - Jul 4^th, 2014 at 7:01pm

Aussie wrote on Jul 4^th, 2014 at 6:13pm:

OldnCrusty wrote on Jul 4^th, 2014 at 6:03pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Jul 4^th, 2014 at 5:52pm:

Lionel Edriess wrote on Jul 4^th, 2014 at 5:30pm:

Gee! Just like the colonisation of Europe, the Americas, England before it became Britain or the UK, Spain, Germany, China - etc.

Key difference, the indigenous population in those other countries are not still suffering as a result of the invasions.

Remedying the suffering of the Aborigines is directly related to acknowledging and addressing the enormous destruction wrought by the invasion and occupation of their land.

In short, Tony's comments just perpetuates the problem.

BULLSHOT.

The biggest problem aboriginal have are themselves. It is time to move on and adapt - some have, others are in Dream Time with a 'Air Plane Cult' mentality.

There is not a culture on Earth that hasn't changed significantly in the last 200 years - but no one can go back in time no matter how idealistic it might appeal.

If you or any Aboriginal have THE solution please submit it to the Minister pronto. We have been looking for a solution and throwing money and misguided policy at the problem for 220 years.

In between times, muddying the waters of public debate with the irrelevant and the distorted ain't helpful.

Turn it up Mr Crusty. That is not what this Thread is about. It is about Abbott putting his foot in his mouth whenever he strays from the Credlin script.

You do intend to enlighten me about history, yes?

I was responding to the Grand Duke Wink

.

If you want to know about early Australian Colonial History it will require more reading than allowed per post on this forum.

Go a couple of google searchs for First Fleet, Capt Phillip, Capt Tench etc and you'll get a good feel for things.

Be careful of the History Wars. Much contradictory and self serving Histories have been written - and some writers and academics will pointedly contradict and rubbish other's work. As with most things the truth is probably in between. As an example Hill said something along the lines that the aboriginal were so primitive and disunited that the the Sydney Harbour natives had a different language to the Parramatta natives.

Which is true, but when you read Tench's first hand report of Bennelong, who was taken against his will on Tench's western expedition, conversing with the Inland natives (at about present day Castle Hills), Tench reports that they could converse with each other but used widely different descriptive words (which he lists).

It is an interesting History and if you read with an open mind can get a lot of insight into the first inter reactions between colonialists and the aboriginals. It is a classic human story of curiosity and respect, and misunderstanding and tragedy.

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Armchair_Politician Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 30173 Gender:	Re: Abbott Claims Oz Unsettled B4 British Reply #41 - Jul 4^th, 2014 at 7:03pm Aborigines are a nomadic race, so technically Abbott is right.
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Aussie

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Re: Abbott Claims Oz Unsettled B4 British
Reply #42 - Jul 4^th, 2014 at 7:04pm

OldnCrusty wrote on Jul 4^th, 2014 at 5:46pm:

Aussie wrote on Jul 4^th, 2014 at 5:09pm:

Dear Tony,

We owe our existence to an invasion of an occupied Land, easy military defeat of the Natives, appalling subsequent treatment of them, and British Colonisation.

Yours faithfully,

Aussie.

Eff off Aussie. For someone who choose 'Aussie' as a tag you know very little about Australian colonial history. Roll Eyes

I theenk you were addressing me there Mr Crusty Elde Fruit. I am hoping you can explain which part of my short letter to Abbott is incorrect.

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Andrei.Hicks

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Re: Abbott Claims Oz Unsettled B4 British
Reply #43 - Jul 4^th, 2014 at 7:06pm

Aussie wrote on Jul 4^th, 2014 at 6:30pm:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jul 4^th, 2014 at 6:29pm:

There was no fully functioning country before we arrived and settled the land.

No doubt, you along with Grendel, will tell that to the Martians when they arrive on Earth. Jolly good. Do carry on.

I'm very proud of my country's colonisation of the world and how we brought civilisation to far flung lands.
Britain has a very proud Imperial history of which Australia is a part.

Good with me thanks.

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Anyone who lives within their means suffers from a lack of imagination - Oscar Wilde

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Lionel Edriess Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 1932 Gender:	Re: Abbott Claims Oz Unsettled B4 British Reply #44 - Jul 4^th, 2014 at 7:09pm I agree. Hard to believe what a mere 100 years can do to the world's greatest empire.
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