Australian Politics Forum - Abbott Claims Oz Unsettled B4 British

austranger

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Re: Abbott Claims Oz Unsettled B4 British
Reply #240 - Jul 5^th, 2014 at 7:41pm

Aussie wrote on Jul 5^th, 2014 at 7:20pm:

Quote:

You stated that aboriginal people showed the first fleeters where to find water ,which is not true. At least have the dignity to admit when you are wrong.

I've seen nothing yet which establishes whether they did or did not.

Obviously the inhabitants would be very well aware of where the water was, and the white blokes would have had no idea. Logic suggests the white blokes would have either sought direct advice or looked to see where the inhabitants were hanging out, given they would be living near to a water source.

Or, far more likely, they simply looked around, they weren't exactly inexperienced at finding water in new territories were they? It ain't rocket science, follow the birds and wildlife in the morn or evening usually does that trick!
I figure that because the Pilgrim experience in America has been so widely publicised people are making the mistake of assuming that that happened here too, which it simply did NOT. The First Settlement was a British Army/ Navy affair, and they had been setting up and finding water etc all across the world for centuries, one would suspect that they had some idea what they were doing perchance? Grin

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hermoine

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Re: Abbott Claims Oz Unsettled B4 British
Reply #241 - Jul 5^th, 2014 at 7:44pm

austranger wrote on Jul 5^th, 2014 at 7:41pm:

Aussie wrote on Jul 5^th, 2014 at 7:20pm:

Quote:

You stated that aboriginal people showed the first fleeters where to find water ,which is not true. At least have the dignity to admit when you are wrong.

I've seen nothing yet which establishes whether they did or did not.

Obviously the inhabitants would be very well aware of where the water was, and the white blokes would have had no idea. Logic suggests the white blokes would have either sought direct advice or looked to see where the inhabitants were hanging out, given they would be living near to a water source.

Or, far more likely, they simply looked around, they weren't exactly inexperienced at finding water in new territories were they? It ain't rocket science, follow the birds and wildlife in the morn or evening usually does that trick!
I figure that because the Pilgrim experience in America has been so widely publicised people are making the mistake of assuming that that happened here too, which it simply did NOT. The First Settlement was a British Army/ Navy affair, and they had been setting up and finding water etc all across the world for centuries, one would suspect that they had some idea what they were doing perchance? Grin

I've read a lot on the First Fleet and the food gathering and water gathering was done by themselves. They had nets which they fished with, the hunted with rifles and spread west to find good soil. It's just the do-gooder trying to diminish the founding of our country.

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austranger

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Re: Abbott Claims Oz Unsettled B4 British
Reply #242 - Jul 5^th, 2014 at 7:53pm

hermoine wrote on Jul 5^th, 2014 at 7:44pm:

austranger wrote on Jul 5^th, 2014 at 7:41pm:

Aussie wrote on Jul 5^th, 2014 at 7:20pm:

Quote:

You stated that aboriginal people showed the first fleeters where to find water ,which is not true. At least have the dignity to admit when you are wrong.

I've seen nothing yet which establishes whether they did or did not.

Obviously the inhabitants would be very well aware of where the water was, and the white blokes would have had no idea. Logic suggests the white blokes would have either sought direct advice or looked to see where the inhabitants were hanging out, given they would be living near to a water source.

Or, far more likely, they simply looked around, they weren't exactly inexperienced at finding water in new territories were they? It ain't rocket science, follow the birds and wildlife in the morn or evening usually does that trick!
I figure that because the Pilgrim experience in America has been so widely publicised people are making the mistake of assuming that that happened here too, which it simply did NOT. The First Settlement was a British Army/ Navy affair, and they had been setting up and finding water etc all across the world for centuries, one would suspect that they had some idea what they were doing perchance? Grin

I've read a lot on the First Fleet and the food gathering and water gathering was done by themselves. They had nets which they fished with, the hunted with rifles and spread west to find good soil. It's just the do-gooder trying to diminish the founding of our country.

Agreed. it's just another iteration of the "Noble Savage" fairy-tale. Whatever else they were at that time the Australian Aboriginal was NOT noble, far from it in fact.
Ignorant, brutally savage, aggressive and intolerant mostly, especially amongst themselves. Little has changed in fact.

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hermoine

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Re: Abbott Claims Oz Unsettled B4 British
Reply #243 - Jul 5^th, 2014 at 7:56pm

austranger wrote on Jul 5^th, 2014 at 7:53pm:

hermoine wrote on Jul 5^th, 2014 at 7:44pm:

austranger wrote on Jul 5^th, 2014 at 7:41pm:

Aussie wrote on Jul 5^th, 2014 at 7:20pm:

Quote:

You stated that aboriginal people showed the first fleeters where to find water ,which is not true. At least have the dignity to admit when you are wrong.

I've seen nothing yet which establishes whether they did or did not.

Obviously the inhabitants would be very well aware of where the water was, and the white blokes would have had no idea. Logic suggests the white blokes would have either sought direct advice or looked to see where the inhabitants were hanging out, given they would be living near to a water source.

Or, far more likely, they simply looked around, they weren't exactly inexperienced at finding water in new territories were they? It ain't rocket science, follow the birds and wildlife in the morn or evening usually does that trick!
I figure that because the Pilgrim experience in America has been so widely publicised people are making the mistake of assuming that that happened here too, which it simply did NOT. The First Settlement was a British Army/ Navy affair, and they had been setting up and finding water etc all across the world for centuries, one would suspect that they had some idea what they were doing perchance? Grin

I've read a lot on the First Fleet and the food gathering and water gathering was done by themselves. They had nets which they fished with, the hunted with rifles and spread west to find good soil. It's just the do-gooder trying to diminish the founding of our country.

Agreed. it's just another iteration of the "Noble Savage" fairy-tale. Whatever else they were at that time the Australian Aboriginal was NOT noble, far from it in fact.
Ignorant, brutally savage, aggressive and intolerant mostly, especially amongst themselves. Little has changed in fact.

I read a book of extracts from Mathew Finder's diaries whereby he described an aboriginal campfire with human remains being cooked up along the northern coastline. That's right, aborigines used to eat one another. The other one I read was that aboriginal elders used to molest young boys during ceremonies.

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Enquiring mind

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Re: Abbott Claims Oz Unsettled B4 British
Reply #244 - Jul 5^th, 2014 at 7:56pm

You’re right about the First Fleet having nets and rifles, Hermoine. They also had pigs, goats, fruit trees, etc, for breeding and planting. But you still haven’t tried to show where the dastardly Karnal got his facts wrong. You’re just saying you’ve "read a lot", and cited texts completely unrelated to the First Fleet.

Forgive me, but this is the equivalent of the infamous Grendel tactic of saying he reads every daily newspaper in Australia and is therefore right on all aspects of news and current affairs.

Would you care to quote from your reading to point out where Karnal’s wrong?

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greggerypeccary Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 156410 Gender:	Re: Abbott Claims Oz Unsettled B4 British Reply #245 - Jul 5^th, 2014 at 7:57pm austranger wrote on Jul 5^th, 2014 at 7:53pm: Ignorant, brutally savage, aggressive and intolerant mostly, especially amongst themselves. I'm sure I've read that somewhere else https://www.liberal.org.au/party
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hermoine Senior Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 364	Re: Abbott Claims Oz Unsettled B4 British Reply #246 - Jul 5^th, 2014 at 8:00pm The noble savage. They are just human beings. Name one group of human beings on earth that doesn't do human being things.
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Enquiring mind Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 104737	Re: Abbott Claims Oz Unsettled B4 British Reply #247 - Jul 5^th, 2014 at 8:04pm hermoine wrote on Jul 5^th, 2014 at 8:00pm: The noble savage. They are just human beings. Name one group of human beings on earth that doesn't do human being things. It_is_the_light. Apparently he is in our every breath.
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austranger

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Re: Abbott Claims Oz Unsettled B4 British
Reply #248 - Jul 5^th, 2014 at 8:08pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 5^th, 2014 at 7:57pm:

austranger wrote on Jul 5^th, 2014 at 7:53pm:

Ignorant, brutally savage, aggressive and intolerant mostly, especially amongst themselves.

I'm sure I've read that somewhere else Undecided

https://www.liberal.org.au/party

So what?
You accusing me of being a Librat supporter? Shocked

Good one cobber! Grin

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hermoine

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Re: Abbott Claims Oz Unsettled B4 British
Reply #249 - Jul 5^th, 2014 at 8:11pm

Enquiring mind wrote on Jul 5^th, 2014 at 8:04pm:

hermoine wrote on Jul 5^th, 2014 at 8:00pm:

The noble savage. Grin

They are just human beings. Name one group of human beings on earth that doesn't do human being things.

It_is_the_light.

Apparently he is in our every breath.

He went out looking for a waterhole with an aborigine. The fee was 2 packs of winnie reds, a case of Toothey's New and 4 packs of chilli flavoured beef jerky. They were last seen staking out a water hazard on a golf course at Dural. Grin

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Enquiring mind

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Re: Abbott Claims Oz Unsettled B4 British
Reply #250 - Jul 5^th, 2014 at 8:21pm

hermoine wrote on Jul 5^th, 2014 at 8:11pm:

Enquiring mind wrote on Jul 5^th, 2014 at 8:04pm:

hermoine wrote on Jul 5^th, 2014 at 8:00pm:

The noble savage. Grin

They are just human beings. Name one group of human beings on earth that doesn't do human being things.

It_is_the_light.

Apparently he is in our every breath.

He went out looking for a waterhole with an aborigine. The fee was 2 packs of winnie reds, a case of Toothey's New and 4 packs of chilli flavoured beef jerky. They were last seen staking out a water hazard on a golf course at Dural. Grin

Good one, dear. Next time you want to get a little high and mighty about apologies and decency, start with a jolly waterhole crack and save the lectures for when you’ve got your notes ready.

Noble savages indeed, eh?

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hermoine

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Re: Abbott Claims Oz Unsettled B4 British
Reply #251 - Jul 5^th, 2014 at 8:23pm

Enquiring mind wrote on Jul 5^th, 2014 at 8:21pm:

hermoine wrote on Jul 5^th, 2014 at 8:11pm:

Enquiring mind wrote on Jul 5^th, 2014 at 8:04pm:

hermoine wrote on Jul 5^th, 2014 at 8:00pm:

The noble savage. Grin

They are just human beings. Name one group of human beings on earth that doesn't do human being things.

It_is_the_light.

Apparently he is in our every breath.

He went out looking for a waterhole with an aborigine. The fee was 2 packs of winnie reds, a case of Toothey's New and 4 packs of chilli flavoured beef jerky. They were last seen staking out a water hazard on a golf course at Dural. Grin

Good one, dear. Next time you want to get a little high and mighty about apologies and decency, start with a jolly waterhole crack and save the lectures for when you’ve got your notes ready.

Thanks princess. Kiss

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Aussie

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Re: Abbott Claims Oz Unsettled B4 British
Reply #252 - Jul 5^th, 2014 at 8:27pm

Quote:

Or, far more likely, they simply looked around, they weren't exactly inexperienced at finding water in new territories were they? It ain't rocket science, follow the birds and wildlife in the morn or evening usually does that trick!

Or, more logically, just ask the locals, or observe where they get their water. And how on earth did some concept of 'noble savage' get relevantly introduced into this?

Further, exactly how many among the first Fleet were experienced hands at settlement of a potentially hostile land? Not too many, if any, I reckon. Just from reading the stuff I googled this afternoon for the purpose of this discussion, it seems they pretty much failed and were sending ships to China for food supplies.

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hermoine

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Re: Abbott Claims Oz Unsettled B4 British
Reply #253 - Jul 5^th, 2014 at 8:31pm

Aussie wrote on Jul 5^th, 2014 at 8:27pm:

Quote:

Or, far more likely, they simply looked around, they weren't exactly inexperienced at finding water in new territories were they? It ain't rocket science, follow the birds and wildlife in the morn or evening usually does that trick!

Or, more logically, just ask the locals, or observe where they get their water. And how on earth did some concept of 'noble savage' get relevantly introduced into this?

Further, exactly how many among the first Fleet were experienced hands at settlement of a potentially hostile land? Not too many, if any, I reckon. Just from reading the stuff I googled this afternoon for the purpose of this discussion, it seems they pretty much failed and were sending ships to China for food supplies.

If the settlers were so bad at bush skills then why do we now have modern Australia?

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Aussie

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Re: Abbott Claims Oz Unsettled B4 British
Reply #254 - Jul 5^th, 2014 at 8:39pm

hermoine wrote on Jul 5^th, 2014 at 8:31pm:

Aussie wrote on Jul 5^th, 2014 at 8:27pm:

Quote:

Or, far more likely, they simply looked around, they weren't exactly inexperienced at finding water in new territories were they? It ain't rocket science, follow the birds and wildlife in the morn or evening usually does that trick!

Or, more logically, just ask the locals, or observe where they get their water. And how on earth did some concept of 'noble savage' get relevantly introduced into this?

Further, exactly how many among the first Fleet were experienced hands at settlement of a potentially hostile land? Not too many, if any, I reckon. Just from reading the stuff I googled this afternoon for the purpose of this discussion, it seems they pretty much failed and were sending ships to China for food supplies.

If the settlers were so bad at bush skills then why do we now have modern Australia?

Better and more skilled people kept turning up, that's how.

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