Australian Politics Forum - Abbott Claims Oz Unsettled B4 British

greggerypeccary

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 156410
Gender: male

Re: Abbott Claims Oz Unsettled B4 British
Reply #225 - Jul 5^th, 2014 at 6:05pm

Dnarever wrote on Jul 5^th, 2014 at 5:56pm:

Grendel wrote on Jul 5^th, 2014 at 4:16pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 5^th, 2014 at 3:32pm:

Grendel wrote on Jul 5^th, 2014 at 3:25pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 5^th, 2014 at 3:19pm:

Grendel wrote on Jul 5^th, 2014 at 3:14pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 5^th, 2014 at 3:03pm:

[quote author=Aussie link=1404457421/2#2 date=1404457795]Dear Tony,

We owe our existence to an invasion of an occupied Land, easy military defeat of the Natives, appalling subsequent treatment of them, and British Colonisation.

Yours faithfully,

Aussie.

Good post.

No reasonable person could argue with that.

There was no military invasion.

As I said, no reasonable person could argue with that.

Thanks Peccerhead... saw the opening and bet a mate that'd be what you'd say. Now $5 richer... thanks.

The fact that I was right doesn't bother you?

You must have a great memory.

Not sure about that.

I certainly can't remember the last time Grendel was right about anything, or the last time he provided evidence to support any of his ludicrous claims.

Back to top

GOP = Guardians Of Paedophiles

IP Logged

Grendel

Gold Member

Offline

OzPolitic

Posts: 28080
Gender: male

Re: Abbott Claims Oz Unsettled B4 British
Reply #226 - Jul 5^th, 2014 at 6:05pm

Dnarever wrote on Jul 5^th, 2014 at 5:52pm:

DaS Energy wrote on Jul 5^th, 2014 at 1:09pm:

Dnarever wrote on Jul 5^th, 2014 at 12:30pm:

Abbott Claims Oz Unsettled B4 British

When you vote for an idiot you can hardly be surprised when the result is that you get an idiot.

It's not Abbotts fault everyone knew him well and still voted the dope into power.

Correction. Abbott had never been placed in responsibility before. His being habitual liar had not yet then been exposed to the voter.

Abbott entered parliament around 1996 - He had a plethora of dishonesty and failure behind him, including his slush fund to put Hanson away, his religious based decision on RU486 the list is endless - Tony was the least honest opposition leader we ever had and has smooth transitioned into government without missing a beat, barley missing the opportunity to break a promise.

You know there is only a lick of truth in that statement. Why do you do it, surely you don't actually believe it as stated?
If you do there is lots of information on those things you need to get educated.

Back to top

IP Logged

Grendel Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 28080 Gender:	Re: Abbott Claims Oz Unsettled B4 British Reply #227 - Jul 5^th, 2014 at 6:08pm Yes Andrei, ignore Peccerhead, he's just being his normal retarded disingenuous self.
Back to top	IP Logged

Enquiring mind

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 104737

Re: Abbott Claims Oz Unsettled B4 British
Reply #228 - Jul 5^th, 2014 at 6:23pm

ian wrote on Jul 5^th, 2014 at 5:50pm:

Enquiring mind wrote on Jul 5^th, 2014 at 3:34pm:

ian wrote on Jul 5^th, 2014 at 2:52pm:

Enquiring mind wrote on Jul 5^th, 2014 at 2:36pm:

[

There is nothing intrinsically superior about "British culture", [/quote[ You better tell the rest of the western world then who seem to disagree with you by their adoption of it.

[quote]As a multicultural country in Asia, Australia’s success also relies on such adaptation.

opening the doors to incompatible cultures wont help us adapt.

The US opened its doors up to hundreds of thousands of African slaves.

And somehow, a few generations on, it managed to become the dominant superpower in the world.

How do you account for such "incompatible cultures" and the US’s economic supremacy?

The US has enormous social issues and the blacks were not encouraged to and did not keep their African cultures, being the dominant superpower means little in this context, Indian is a superpower with nuclear missiles while their people sh!t and starve in the streets.

True, but most would cite the US as the most "superior" country in the world. Americans certainly do.

And yet, they have southern states dominated by Hispanics, eastenr states dominated by the descendents of slaves, and a Bible-belt in the middle full of happy-clapping KKKers.

Americans do NOT see themselves as a "British" culture - far from it. Like it or loathe it, America is fiercely multicultural.

Burn Baby Burn.

Back to top

IP Logged

Enquiring mind

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 104737

Re: Abbott Claims Oz Unsettled B4 British
Reply #229 - Jul 5^th, 2014 at 6:27pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 5^th, 2014 at 6:05pm:

Dnarever wrote on Jul 5^th, 2014 at 5:56pm:

Grendel wrote on Jul 5^th, 2014 at 4:16pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 5^th, 2014 at 3:32pm:

Grendel wrote on Jul 5^th, 2014 at 3:25pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 5^th, 2014 at 3:19pm:

Grendel wrote on Jul 5^th, 2014 at 3:14pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 5^th, 2014 at 3:03pm:

[quote author=Aussie link=1404457421/2#2 date=1404457795]Dear Tony,

We owe our existence to an invasion of an occupied Land, easy military defeat of the Natives, appalling subsequent treatment of them, and British Colonisation.

Yours faithfully,

Aussie.

Good post.

No reasonable person could argue with that.

There was no military invasion.

As I said, no reasonable person could argue with that.

Thanks Peccerhead... saw the opening and bet a mate that'd be what you'd say. Now $5 richer... thanks.

The fact that I was right doesn't bother you?

You must have a great memory.

Not sure about that.

I certainly can't remember the last time Grendel was right about anything, or the last time he provided evidence to support any of his ludicrous claims.

Yes, but Grendel’s specialty is proving everybody else wrong. His evidence is the picture of that flexible chap with the big bottom.

It’s very persuasive, you know.

Back to top

IP Logged

Enquiring mind

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 104737

Re: Abbott Claims Oz Unsettled B4 British
Reply #230 - Jul 5^th, 2014 at 6:32pm

Grendel wrote on Jul 5^th, 2014 at 6:05pm:

Dnarever wrote on Jul 5^th, 2014 at 5:52pm:

DaS Energy wrote on Jul 5^th, 2014 at 1:09pm:

Dnarever wrote on Jul 5^th, 2014 at 12:30pm:

Abbott Claims Oz Unsettled B4 British

When you vote for an idiot you can hardly be surprised when the result is that you get an idiot.

It's not Abbotts fault everyone knew him well and still voted the dope into power.

Correction. Abbott had never been placed in responsibility before. His being habitual liar had not yet then been exposed to the voter.

Abbott entered parliament around 1996 - He had a plethora of dishonesty and failure behind him, including his slush fund to put Hanson away, his religious based decision on RU486 the list is endless - Tony was the least honest opposition leader we ever had and has smooth transitioned into government without missing a beat, barley missing the opportunity to break a promise.

You know there is only a lick of truth in that statement. Why do you do it, surely you don't actually believe it as stated?
If you do there is lots of information on those things you need to get educated.

Do you read all those daily newspapers you buy, Grendel, or do you just check the cricket scores?

I’m curious.

Back to top

IP Logged

Enquiring mind

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 104737

Re: Abbott Claims Oz Unsettled B4 British
Reply #231 - Jul 5^th, 2014 at 6:41pm

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jul 5^th, 2014 at 6:03pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 5^th, 2014 at 5:55pm:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jul 5^th, 2014 at 5:53pm:

12% of the male population of the United States is African American.
They make up 44% of the population of convicted jailed criminals.

Fact.

Interesting fact.

Do you have an interesting point as well?

That the facts show they contribute disproportionately to crime and violence in the US.
They have not been a positive influence on the country's development.

The jail stats simply highlight their level of criminality.

And yet, many of those blacks fought in the Pacific to defend Australia. When they came to Australia, many said they felt more welcomed than they’d ever felt in a white southern town back home.

Who has the superior culture? The Septic Tanks - or us?

Back to top

IP Logged

hermoine

Senior Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 364

Re: Abbott Claims Oz Unsettled B4 British
Reply #232 - Jul 5^th, 2014 at 7:10pm

Enquiring mind wrote on Jul 5^th, 2014 at 5:23pm:

Lionel Edriess wrote on Jul 5^th, 2014 at 3:59pm:

Enquiring mind wrote on Jul 5^th, 2014 at 3:51pm:

You still haven’t confirmed how you think the settlers managed to stumble upon the colony’s source of water. ...

And you don't read posts that supply links.

" ... The colony had originally been planned for Botany Bay, on the recommendation of Sir Joseph Banks who had visited the area with Captain James Cook 17 years earlier, but when no fresh water was found there, Phillip sought a better site, and found it in the previously unvisited Port Jackson. Sydney Cove was chosen for settlement as it "was at the head of the cove, near the run of fresh water which stole silently along through a very thick wood".[2] On 26 January 1788 the new colony was inaugurated. ... '

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tank_Stream

No, I read your link. The Tank Stream was an Aboriginal water source. It contained spear heads.

I’m not sure why you’re placing so much importance on a fairly undocumented moment in white settlement. It’s not as if there are any historical controversies over murdered Aboriginals or convicts in the Tank Stream, as there were at a stream in Rushcutters Bay.

Whites owed a huge debt to the Eora people in Sydney. Fishing spots, oyster rocks, fresh water, the lot. It was an uneasy relationship, but it was pivotal to the development and history of the colony.

You stated that aboriginal people showed the first fleeters where to find water ,which is not true. At least have the dignity to admit when you are wrong.

Back to top

IP Logged

Aussie

Gold Member

Offline

OzPolitic

Posts: 39959
Gender: male

Re: Abbott Claims Oz Unsettled B4 British
Reply #233 - Jul 5^th, 2014 at 7:20pm

Quote:

You stated that aboriginal people showed the first fleeters where to find water ,which is not true. At least have the dignity to admit when you are wrong.

I've seen nothing yet which establishes whether they did or did not.

Obviously the inhabitants would be very well aware of where the water was, and the white blokes would have had no idea. Logic suggests the white blokes would have either sought direct advice or looked to see where the inhabitants were hanging out, given they would be living near to a water source.

Back to top

IP Logged

Enquiring mind

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 104737

Re: Abbott Claims Oz Unsettled B4 British
Reply #234 - Jul 5^th, 2014 at 7:21pm

I’m happy to admit I’m wrong if you show me where, Hermoine.

You’re saying the First Fleet came into Sydney Harbour and had no contact with Aboriginals for weeks. Would you care to show the first documented contact and explain its importance?

The Mitchell Library has a good online collection of letters and journals. Have a look and get back if you’d like.

Back to top

IP Logged

Enquiring mind

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 104737

Re: Abbott Claims Oz Unsettled B4 British
Reply #235 - Jul 5^th, 2014 at 7:22pm

I’m happy to admit I’m wrong if you show me where, Hermoine.

You’re saying the First Fleet came into Sydney Harbour and had no contact with Aboriginals for weeks. Would you care to show the first documented contact and explain its importance?

The Mitchell Library has a good online collection of letters and journals. Have a look and get back if you’d like.

Back to top

IP Logged

hermoine Senior Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 364	Re: Abbott Claims Oz Unsettled B4 British Reply #236 - Jul 5^th, 2014 at 7:24pm The British almost starved in the first two years of the colony. They certainly would have died of thirst if they weren’t shown the waterholes, which they took over. Karnal......... Wrong.
Back to top	IP Logged

Aussie

Gold Member

Offline

OzPolitic

Posts: 39959
Gender: male

Re: Abbott Claims Oz Unsettled B4 British
Reply #237 - Jul 5^th, 2014 at 7:34pm

hermoine wrote on Jul 5^th, 2014 at 7:24pm:

The British almost starved in the first two years of the colony. They certainly would have died of thirst if they weren’t shown the waterholes, which they took over. Karnal......... Wrong.

I was kinda hoping you'd do better than just telling me that Karnal is wrong. I'd be obliged if you told me why he is wrong.

Back to top

IP Logged

austranger

Gold Member

Offline

Opinionated Sod

Posts: 1506
adelaide
Gender: male

Re: Abbott Claims Oz Unsettled B4 British
Reply #238 - Jul 5^th, 2014 at 7:34pm

DaS Energy wrote on Jul 5^th, 2014 at 2:53pm:

austranger wrote on Jul 5^th, 2014 at 2:16pm:

The British were Imperialists, their Terra Nullius claim was based on their observation that there was no nation, no organised people with a claim in their understanding of such claims.

Terra nullius (/ˈtɛrə nʌˈlaɪ.əs/, plural terrae nullius) is a Latin expression deriving from Roman law meaning "land belonging to no one",[1] which is used in international law to describe territory which has never been subject to the sovereignty of any state, or over which any prior sovereign has expressly or implicitly relinquished sovereignty. Sovereignty over territory which is terra nullius may be acquired through occupation,[2] though in some cases doing so would violate an international law or treaty.

Within their terms of reference at that time they were quite correct and their colonisation was thus entirely legal and justifiable at law.
You can't simply re-interpret their actions then under our concepts now and say they were thus wrong at that time, sorry.

On the 3rd June 1992 Justice Brennan, in considering the rights of the indigenous peoples of the Murray Islands, proclaimed in the High Court of Australia that "the Meriam people are entitled as against the whole world to possession, occupation, use and enjoyment of the lands of the Murray Islands". This decision overturns the concept of terra nullius. The Aboriginal people of the Murray Islands are entitled to be acknowledged as the original owners of the territory in question. With that decision the foundation upon which the Law as practised by Surveyors was severely shaken; now part of Australia at least is recognised as having been inhabited by Aboriginal peoples who have rights above all others to those lands in law.

So what? We have a different outlook now, but that is utterly meaningless in the context of what happened 200+ years ago.
You must have skipped over this bit of my post..
You can't simply re-interpret their actions then under our concepts now and say they were thus wrong at that time, sorry.
What the British did back then was completely legal under the rules that were in place at that time, and fitted perfectly with their world gestalt, so what anyone thinks, says, or does, nowadays is totally irrelevant to those people and facts. Wink

You can change your outlook on history but you can't change history itself, get over it.

Back to top

Any day with a smile in it is a good day

IP Logged

hermoine

Senior Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 364

Re: Abbott Claims Oz Unsettled B4 British
Reply #239 - Jul 5^th, 2014 at 7:36pm

Aussie wrote on Jul 5^th, 2014 at 7:34pm:

hermoine wrote on Jul 5^th, 2014 at 7:24pm:

The British almost starved in the first two years of the colony. They certainly would have died of thirst if they weren’t shown the waterholes, which they took over. Karnal......... Wrong.

I was kinda hoping you'd do better than just telling me that Karnal is wrong. I'd be obliged if you told me why he is wrong.

Because you just read a piece of history from Karnal that he made up himself. It was his quote.

Back to top

IP Logged