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Abbott Claims Oz Unsettled B4 British (Read 11245 times)
greggerypeccary
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Re: Abbott Claims Oz Unsettled B4 British
Reply #180 - Jul 5th, 2014 at 3:32pm
 
Grendel wrote on Jul 5th, 2014 at 3:25pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 5th, 2014 at 3:19pm:
Grendel wrote on Jul 5th, 2014 at 3:14pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 5th, 2014 at 3:03pm:
Aussie wrote on Jul 4th, 2014 at 5:09pm:
Dear Tony,


We owe our existence to an invasion of an occupied Land, easy military defeat of the Natives, appalling subsequent treatment of them, and British Colonisation.

Yours faithfully,

Aussie.



Good post.

No reasonable person could argue with that.



There was no military invasion. 



As I said, no reasonable person could argue with that.

Thanks Peccerhead...  saw the opening and bet a mate that'd be what you'd say.  Now $5 richer...  thanks.



The fact that I was right doesn't bother you?


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hermoine
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Re: Abbott Claims Oz Unsettled B4 British
Reply #181 - Jul 5th, 2014 at 3:32pm
 
Enquiring mind wrote on Jul 5th, 2014 at 3:28pm:
hermoine wrote on Jul 5th, 2014 at 2:50pm:
Enquiring mind wrote on Jul 5th, 2014 at 2:46pm:
DaS Energy wrote on Jul 5th, 2014 at 1:06pm:
Tony Abbott hates to admit he's British to the boot straps and his forebears were liars also, who told the British Sovereign Australia was uninhabited.

Their deceit is now fully exposed, and us born Australian are paying a price for liars like Abbott.


Actually, it was just a silly Freudian slip by Abbott, which he struggled to get out of. It wasn’t that bad.

But it does give you a hint of his influences and the people he surrounds himself with - Andrew Bolts, Gerard Hendersons, David Flynts, and the gaggle of fossilized old fruitloops that are being parachuted  into the boards and positions of influence around the country.

Yes, thank heavens the grown-ups are back in charge.
The first 5 years the first fleet stuck to Farm Cove, Parramatta and a few other areas Karnal. I just want to know where you got the opinion that the local aboriginals showed the first fleeters  where to get water. I makes me wonder how much of your posts are actually correct.


The tank stream was underground, dear. How do you think the settlers found out about it?
It used to be an above ground stream fed by a spring that ran into farm Cove. They got their water from it. There's was plenty of water in the Sydney basin. You are getting it mixed up with other places later on dear. Google it.
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Re: Abbott Claims Oz Unsettled B4 British
Reply #182 - Jul 5th, 2014 at 3:34pm
 
ian wrote on Jul 5th, 2014 at 2:52pm:
Enquiring mind wrote on Jul 5th, 2014 at 2:36pm:
[

There is nothing intrinsically superior about "British culture", [/quote[ You better tell the rest of the western world then who seem to disagree with you by their adoption of it.

[quote]As a multicultural country in Asia, Australia’s success also relies on such adaptation.
opening the doors to incompatible cultures wont help us adapt.


The US opened its doors up to hundreds of thousands of African slaves.

And somehow, a few generations on, it managed to become the dominant superpower in the world.

How do you account for such "incompatible cultures" and the US’s economic supremacy?
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Grendel
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Re: Abbott Claims Oz Unsettled B4 British
Reply #183 - Jul 5th, 2014 at 3:35pm
 
Enquiring mind wrote on Jul 5th, 2014 at 2:36pm:
ian wrote on Jul 5th, 2014 at 9:28am:
Enquiring mind wrote on Jul 5th, 2014 at 12:32am:
ian wrote on Jul 4th, 2014 at 11:00pm:
Enquiring mind wrote on Jul 4th, 2014 at 10:52pm:
ian wrote on Jul 4th, 2014 at 10:13pm:
40,000 years of stagnant progress. Do you think their life expectancy would be any higher if we added another 200 years to the 40,000? You think they would have invented penicillin?


Most of the Eora Sydney Aboriginal population died from smallpox.

Penicillin didn’t do them much good.

and yet their life expectancy is around 65 now. Despite their decisions to make appalling lifestyle choices. Im a realist, cultural collision was inevitable as a result of inevitable colonisation. The stronger culture took over the weaker one, what is strong about the aboriginal culture will survive and will become part of our australian culture. Pretending that aboriginal culture was something that it wasnt doesnt serve their future, the future is assimilation.


By this measure, the Indonesians are the stronger culture because they have a bigger army.

Aboriginal culture was a lot of things, as was 18th century British culture. Neither was perfect or evil.

One just happened to borrow gunpowder from the Chinese before the other.
Our ancestors didnt conquer the abos because they had a bigger army, it was culture and  technology. The sort of culture that made them develop technology to increase the food supply in response to population growth rather than practise infanticide.


There is nothing intrinsically superior about "British culture", but Britain did have something colonisers like the Spanish didn’t have: an interest in other cultures and places.
Really...  at a time when Aboriginals ran around naked and threw spears at each other the British had; guns, swords, cannon, rode horses, built and sailed ships, farmed, had Pubs, created cities, an army and navy, global trade and exploration, etc, etc, etc... what was your point again?

This came down to the influence of groups like the Royal Geographic Society. Where Spain wanted to capture souls for the church and nakedly exploit the resources of their colonies to pay back their loans, the British establishment wanted to map the world.
Which according to you is not intrinsically superior.... 


Britain - like the French - were genuinely curious about local people and their customs. This is displayed all through the letters of the First Fleet. The British officer class placed importance on their role in naming species, mapping terrain, and learning local languages and customs. They were passionate about ethnography. Artefacts from newly discovered (or captured) people sold for a fortune back in London.
Ah yes artifacts and those places of study that used them and the museums, Britain 1st museum in the world 1753... but not intrinsically superior...


This, of course, was the knowledge of empire. The British Empire didn’t succeed because of any intrinsic cultural trait in the British,  Cheesy but through the connections of the empire itself.
Which they had no part in creating apparently
Cheesy Britain prevailed by bringing the right people on side. It had to. Half the world was held by a handful of British soldiers. Britain prevailed through treaties and relationships with local leaders, but always with gunships in the harbour, always muskets on display.

This made Britain rich, and the homes of wealthy were filled with Chinese porcelain and silver, Morrocan carvings, Indian tapestries, Venetian glass - loot from all over the world. British manufacturing and craftsmanship did not develop a name for itself until the 18th century, when Britain started copying the designs and production processes of other cultures.

It wasn’t anything intrinsically "British" that drove British Empire to prevail, but the British adaption of other cultural processes, and its ability to bring them into the fold of empire.  Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy

Today, the US has prevailed for the very same reason. The US is one of the most multicultural powers in the world today, and along with its military and industrial strength, its success is due to its pluralism, its cultural diversity, and its cultural networks.

As a multicultural nation in Asia, Australia’s success also relies on such adaptation. It’s not the strength or predominance of any one ethnic group that will bring prosperity to Australia, but the willingness to learn and adapt to new ways of living.

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Re: Abbott Claims Oz Unsettled B4 British
Reply #184 - Jul 5th, 2014 at 3:36pm
 
DaS Energy wrote on Jul 5th, 2014 at 3:30pm:
Enquiring mind wrote on Jul 5th, 2014 at 2:46pm:
DaS Energy wrote on Jul 5th, 2014 at 1:06pm:
Tony Abbott hates to admit he's British to the boot straps and his forebears were liars also, who told the British Sovereign Australia was uninhabited.

Their deceit is now fully exposed, and us born Australian are paying a price for liars like Abbott.


Actually, it was just a silly Freudian slip by Abbott, which he struggled to get out of. It wasn’t that bad.

But it does give you a hint of his influences and the people he surrounds himself with - Andrew Bolts, Gerard Hendersons, David Flynts, and the gaggle of fossilized old fruitloops that are being parachuted  into the boards and positions of influence around the country.

Yes, thank heavens the grown-ups are back in charge.


A Freudian slip is a verbal or memory mistake that is believed to be linked to the unconscious mind.

Abbott saw his deceit would not go down and tried to change what he was saying mid sentence!


I know.
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Re: Abbott Claims Oz Unsettled B4 British
Reply #185 - Jul 5th, 2014 at 3:40pm
 
hermoine wrote on Jul 5th, 2014 at 3:32pm:
Enquiring mind wrote on Jul 5th, 2014 at 3:28pm:
hermoine wrote on Jul 5th, 2014 at 2:50pm:
Enquiring mind wrote on Jul 5th, 2014 at 2:46pm:
DaS Energy wrote on Jul 5th, 2014 at 1:06pm:
Tony Abbott hates to admit he's British to the boot straps and his forebears were liars also, who told the British Sovereign Australia was uninhabited.

Their deceit is now fully exposed, and us born Australian are paying a price for liars like Abbott.


Actually, it was just a silly Freudian slip by Abbott, which he struggled to get out of. It wasn’t that bad.

But it does give you a hint of his influences and the people he surrounds himself with - Andrew Bolts, Gerard Hendersons, David Flynts, and the gaggle of fossilized old fruitloops that are being parachuted  into the boards and positions of influence around the country.

Yes, thank heavens the grown-ups are back in charge.
The first 5 years the first fleet stuck to Farm Cove, Parramatta and a few other areas Karnal. I just want to know where you got the opinion that the local aboriginals showed the first fleeters  where to get water. I makes me wonder how much of your posts are actually correct.


The tank stream was underground, dear. How do you think the settlers found out about it?
It used to be an above ground stream fed by a spring that ran into farm Cove. They got their water from it. There's was plenty of water in the Sydney basin. You are getting it mixed up with other places later on dear. Google it.


Now now, they didn’t have Google back then, dear.

But I agree you should check my facts. Good work.
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hermoine
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Re: Abbott Claims Oz Unsettled B4 British
Reply #186 - Jul 5th, 2014 at 3:41pm
 
Enquiring mind wrote on Jul 5th, 2014 at 3:40pm:
hermoine wrote on Jul 5th, 2014 at 3:32pm:
Enquiring mind wrote on Jul 5th, 2014 at 3:28pm:
hermoine wrote on Jul 5th, 2014 at 2:50pm:
Enquiring mind wrote on Jul 5th, 2014 at 2:46pm:
DaS Energy wrote on Jul 5th, 2014 at 1:06pm:
Tony Abbott hates to admit he's British to the boot straps and his forebears were liars also, who told the British Sovereign Australia was uninhabited.

Their deceit is now fully exposed, and us born Australian are paying a price for liars like Abbott.


Actually, it was just a silly Freudian slip by Abbott, which he struggled to get out of. It wasn’t that bad.

But it does give you a hint of his influences and the people he surrounds himself with - Andrew Bolts, Gerard Hendersons, David Flynts, and the gaggle of fossilized old fruitloops that are being parachuted  into the boards and positions of influence around the country.

Yes, thank heavens the grown-ups are back in charge.
The first 5 years the first fleet stuck to Farm Cove, Parramatta and a few other areas Karnal. I just want to know where you got the opinion that the local aboriginals showed the first fleeters  where to get water. I makes me wonder how much of your posts are actually correct.


The tank stream was underground, dear. How do you think the settlers found out about it?
It used to be an above ground stream fed by a spring that ran into farm Cove. They got their water from it. There's was plenty of water in the Sydney basin. You are getting it mixed up with other places later on dear. Google it.


Now now, they didn’t have Google back then, dear.

But I agree you should check my facts. Good work.
It's underground now because there are building on it. Grin Grin Grin
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Lionel Edriess
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Re: Abbott Claims Oz Unsettled B4 British
Reply #187 - Jul 5th, 2014 at 3:42pm
 
Enquiring mind wrote on Jul 5th, 2014 at 3:28pm:
The tank stream was underground, dear. How do you think the settlers found out about it?


Really?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tank_Stream

Meanwhile, here's a $700 million payout being squabbled over:

http://media.news.com.au/nnd/captivate/north-east-arnhem-land/#chapter1

Seems there's no end to the largesse extended to these people that won't be squandered in legal fees.

Let's do the math, shall we?

$700,000,000 divided by, say, 1,000 people?

That's more money than a Sydney slum-lord makes in a year!

Put forward your own calculations if you disagree with mine. I quite willingly stand to be corrected.

Still, $700 million is a lot of apology, wouldn't you say?

Cool



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Re: Abbott Claims Oz Unsettled B4 British
Reply #188 - Jul 5th, 2014 at 3:43pm
 
Grendel wrote on Jul 5th, 2014 at 3:35pm:
Enquiring mind wrote on Jul 5th, 2014 at 2:36pm:
ian wrote on Jul 5th, 2014 at 9:28am:
Enquiring mind wrote on Jul 5th, 2014 at 12:32am:
ian wrote on Jul 4th, 2014 at 11:00pm:
Enquiring mind wrote on Jul 4th, 2014 at 10:52pm:
ian wrote on Jul 4th, 2014 at 10:13pm:
40,000 years of stagnant progress. Do you think their life expectancy would be any higher if we added another 200 years to the 40,000? You think they would have invented penicillin?


Most of the Eora Sydney Aboriginal population died from smallpox.

Penicillin didn’t do them much good.

and yet their life expectancy is around 65 now. Despite their decisions to make appalling lifestyle choices. Im a realist, cultural collision was inevitable as a result of inevitable colonisation. The stronger culture took over the weaker one, what is strong about the aboriginal culture will survive and will become part of our australian culture. Pretending that aboriginal culture was something that it wasnt doesnt serve their future, the future is assimilation.


By this measure, the Indonesians are the stronger culture because they have a bigger army.

Aboriginal culture was a lot of things, as was 18th century British culture. Neither was perfect or evil.

One just happened to borrow gunpowder from the Chinese before the other.
Our ancestors didnt conquer the abos because they had a bigger army, it was culture and  technology. The sort of culture that made them develop technology to increase the food supply in response to population growth rather than practise infanticide.


There is nothing intrinsically superior about "British culture", but Britain did have something colonisers like the Spanish didn’t have: an interest in other cultures and places.
Really...  at a time when Aboriginals ran around naked and threw spears at each other the British had; guns, swords, cannon, rode horses, built and sailed ships, farmed, had Pubs, created cities, an army and navy, global trade and exploration, etc, etc, etc... what was your point again?

This came down to the influence of groups like the Royal Geographic Society. Where Spain wanted to capture souls for the church and nakedly exploit the resources of their colonies to pay back their loans, the British establishment wanted to map the world.
Which according to you is not intrinsically superior.... 


Britain - like the French - were genuinely curious about local people and their customs. This is displayed all through the letters of the First Fleet. The British officer class placed importance on their role in naming species, mapping terrain, and learning local languages and customs. They were passionate about ethnography. Artefacts from newly discovered (or captured) people sold for a fortune back in London.
Ah yes artifacts and those places of study that used them and the museums, Britain 1st museum in the world 1753... but not intrinsically superior...


This, of course, was the knowledge of empire. The British Empire didn’t succeed because of any intrinsic cultural trait in the British,  Cheesy but through the connections of the empire itself.
Which they had no part in creating apparently
Cheesy Britain prevailed by bringing the right people on side. It had to. Half the world was held by a handful of British soldiers. Britain prevailed through treaties and relationships with local leaders, but always with gunships in the harbour, always muskets on display.

This made Britain rich, and the homes of wealthy were filled with Chinese porcelain and silver, Morrocan carvings, Indian tapestries, Venetian glass - loot from all over the world. British manufacturing and craftsmanship did not develop a name for itself until the 18th century, when Britain started copying the designs and production processes of other cultures.

It wasn’t anything intrinsically "British" that drove British Empire to prevail, but the British adaption of other cultural processes, and its ability to bring them into the fold of empire.  Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy

Today, the US has prevailed for the very same reason. The US is one of the most multicultural powers in the world today, and along with its military and industrial strength, its success is due to its pluralism, its cultural diversity, and its cultural networks.

As a multicultural nation in Asia, Australia’s success also relies on such adaptation. It’s not the strength or predominance of any one ethnic group that will bring prosperity to Australia, but the willingness to learn and adapt to new ways of living.



Good use of quotes, Grendel.
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Re: Abbott Claims Oz Unsettled B4 British
Reply #189 - Jul 5th, 2014 at 3:45pm
 
Apology, Lionel?
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Lionel Edriess
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Re: Abbott Claims Oz Unsettled B4 British
Reply #190 - Jul 5th, 2014 at 3:47pm
 
What for?

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Re: Abbott Claims Oz Unsettled B4 British
Reply #191 - Jul 5th, 2014 at 3:49pm
 
Lionel Edriess wrote on Jul 5th, 2014 at 3:47pm:
What for?



Quote:
Still, $700 million is a lot of apology, wouldn't you say?



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Re: Abbott Claims Oz Unsettled B4 British
Reply #192 - Jul 5th, 2014 at 3:51pm
 
hermoine wrote on Jul 5th, 2014 at 3:41pm:
Enquiring mind wrote on Jul 5th, 2014 at 3:40pm:
hermoine wrote on Jul 5th, 2014 at 3:32pm:
Enquiring mind wrote on Jul 5th, 2014 at 3:28pm:
hermoine wrote on Jul 5th, 2014 at 2:50pm:
Enquiring mind wrote on Jul 5th, 2014 at 2:46pm:
DaS Energy wrote on Jul 5th, 2014 at 1:06pm:
Tony Abbott hates to admit he's British to the boot straps and his forebears were liars also, who told the British Sovereign Australia was uninhabited.

Their deceit is now fully exposed, and us born Australian are paying a price for liars like Abbott.


Actually, it was just a silly Freudian slip by Abbott, which he struggled to get out of. It wasn’t that bad.

But it does give you a hint of his influences and the people he surrounds himself with - Andrew Bolts, Gerard Hendersons, David Flynts, and the gaggle of fossilized old fruitloops that are being parachuted  into the boards and positions of influence around the country.

Yes, thank heavens the grown-ups are back in charge.
The first 5 years the first fleet stuck to Farm Cove, Parramatta and a few other areas Karnal. I just want to know where you got the opinion that the local aboriginals showed the first fleeters  where to get water. I makes me wonder how much of your posts are actually correct.


The tank stream was underground, dear. How do you think the settlers found out about it?
It used to be an above ground stream fed by a spring that ran into farm Cove. They got their water from it. There's was plenty of water in the Sydney basin. You are getting it mixed up with other places later on dear. Google it.


Now now, they didn’t have Google back then, dear.

But I agree you should check my facts. Good work.
It's underground now because there are building on it. Grin Grin Grin


You still haven’t confirmed how you think the settlers managed to stumble upon the colony’s source of water.

To be honest, I have no idea, but I do know that there were very few fresh water sources in early Sydney, and both blacks and whites - with spears and rifles.

Water was political even back then.
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Lionel Edriess
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Re: Abbott Claims Oz Unsettled B4 British
Reply #193 - Jul 5th, 2014 at 3:55pm
 
OK!

I'll say it's a lot of 'recompense' for the invasion and utilisation of traditional lands that had never been cultivated or otherwise utilised.

What of the other 498 tribes? Do they get a share?

You did see the bit about those ponds being toxic, didn't you?

Ahem.

I'm sorry.

See! I've apologised.

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Re: Abbott Claims Oz Unsettled B4 British
Reply #194 - Jul 5th, 2014 at 3:59pm
 
Enquiring mind wrote on Jul 5th, 2014 at 3:51pm:
You still haven’t confirmed how you think the settlers managed to stumble upon the colony’s source of water. ...


And you don't read posts that supply links.

" ... The colony had originally been planned for Botany Bay, on the recommendation of Sir Joseph Banks who had visited the area with Captain James Cook 17 years earlier, but when no fresh water was found there, Phillip sought a better site, and found it in the previously unvisited Port Jackson. Sydney Cove was chosen for settlement as it "was at the head of the cove, near the run of fresh water which stole silently along through a very thick wood".[2] On 26 January 1788 the new colony was inaugurated. ... '

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tank_Stream

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