Australian Politics Forum - Abbott Claims Oz Unsettled B4 British

Life_goes_on Gold Member Offline Posts: 4772 400kms south of Yobsville, Qld Gender:	Re: Abbott Claims Oz Unsettled B4 British Reply #120 - Jul 5^th, 2014 at 7:00am We might hate Abbott, but we hate aboriginals more. Enough to make excuses for him.
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Ex Dame Pansi Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 24168	Re: Abbott Claims Oz Unsettled B4 British Reply #121 - Jul 5^th, 2014 at 7:14am Tony Abbott stated yesterday Australia "unsettled' before Brits. Aborigines were only here 59,946 years before you.
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Ex Dame Pansi Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 24168	Re: Abbott Claims Oz Unsettled B4 British Reply #122 - Jul 5^th, 2014 at 7:15am bump......
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OldnCrusty Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 855 Gender:	Re: Abbott Claims Oz Unsettled B4 British Reply #123 - Jul 5^th, 2014 at 7:36am Life_goes_on wrote on Jul 5^th, 2014 at 7:00am: We might hate Abbott, but we hate aboriginals more. I don't hate Abbott nor aboriginals, but I hate liars and lies in public debate masquerading as truth or logic.
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Rhet-Oracle Senior Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 408	Re: Abbott Claims Oz Unsettled B4 British Reply #124 - Jul 5^th, 2014 at 7:50am Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Jul 5^th, 2014 at 7:14am: Tony Abbott stated yesterday Australia "unsettled' before Brits. Aborigines were only here 59,946 years before you. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BrsG7XSCMAAtRat.jpg Yep, haven't they done well in all those years, a stick that doesn't come back.
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Winston Smith

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Re: Abbott Claims Oz Unsettled B4 British
Reply #125 - Jul 5^th, 2014 at 8:26am

Rhet-Oracle wrote on Jul 5^th, 2014 at 7:50am:

Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Jul 5^th, 2014 at 7:14am:

Tony Abbott stated yesterday Australia "unsettled' before Brits. Aborigines were only here 59,946 years before you.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BrsG7XSCMAAtRat.jpg

Yep, haven't they done well in all those years, a stick that doesn't come back. Grin

First of all you inherited the combined knowledge and wealth of a civilization that had spent hundreds of years plundering and raping of every corner of the planet, causing untold death and destruction.

Secondly, none of that has led to any real social advances, on the contrary it has led humanity into a cul-de-sac from which we likely will never emerge once the biota collapses and takes us with it.

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ian

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Re: Abbott Claims Oz Unsettled B4 British
Reply #126 - Jul 5^th, 2014 at 9:28am

Enquiring mind wrote on Jul 5^th, 2014 at 12:32am:

ian wrote on Jul 4^th, 2014 at 11:00pm:

Enquiring mind wrote on Jul 4^th, 2014 at 10:52pm:

ian wrote on Jul 4^th, 2014 at 10:13pm:

40,000 years of stagnant progress. Do you think their life expectancy would be any higher if we added another 200 years to the 40,000? You think they would have invented penicillin?

Most of the Eora Sydney Aboriginal population died from smallpox.

Penicillin didn’t do them much good.

and yet their life expectancy is around 65 now. Despite their decisions to make appalling lifestyle choices. Im a realist, cultural collision was inevitable as a result of inevitable colonisation. The stronger culture took over the weaker one, what is strong about the aboriginal culture will survive and will become part of our australian culture. Pretending that aboriginal culture was something that it wasnt doesnt serve their future, the future is assimilation.

By this measure, the Indonesians are the stronger culture because they have a bigger army.

Aboriginal culture was a lot of things, as was 18th century British culture. Neither was perfect or evil.

One just happened to borrow gunpowder from the Chinese before the other.

Our ancestors didnt conquer the abos because they had a bigger army, it was culture and technology. The sort of culture that made them develop technology to increase the food supply in response to population growth rather than practise infanticide.

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Winston Smith

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Re: Abbott Claims Oz Unsettled B4 British
Reply #127 - Jul 5^th, 2014 at 9:36am

ian wrote on Jul 5^th, 2014 at 9:28am:

Enquiring mind wrote on Jul 5^th, 2014 at 12:32am:

ian wrote on Jul 4^th, 2014 at 11:00pm:

Enquiring mind wrote on Jul 4^th, 2014 at 10:52pm:

ian wrote on Jul 4^th, 2014 at 10:13pm:

40,000 years of stagnant progress. Do you think their life expectancy would be any higher if we added another 200 years to the 40,000? You think they would have invented penicillin?

Most of the Eora Sydney Aboriginal population died from smallpox.

Penicillin didn’t do them much good.

and yet their life expectancy is around 65 now. Despite their decisions to make appalling lifestyle choices. Im a realist, cultural collision was inevitable as a result of inevitable colonisation. The stronger culture took over the weaker one, what is strong about the aboriginal culture will survive and will become part of our australian culture. Pretending that aboriginal culture was something that it wasnt doesnt serve their future, the future is assimilation.

By this measure, the Indonesians are the stronger culture because they have a bigger army.

Aboriginal culture was a lot of things, as was 18th century British culture. Neither was perfect or evil.

One just happened to borrow gunpowder from the Chinese before the other.

Our ancestors didnt conquer the abos because they had a bigger army, it was culture and technology. The sort of culture that made them develop technology to increase the food supply in response to population growth rather than practise infanticide.

Yes ian, the British conquered Australia for humanitarian reasons. Roll Eyes

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austranger

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Re: Abbott Claims Oz Unsettled B4 British
Reply #128 - Jul 5^th, 2014 at 10:37am

I believe I've made my support for the Indig' amply clear here, and the fact that I'm not racially prejudiced too.
However...
As to whether the Indig would have "progressed" without white colonisation, consider these FACTS:
The Malays and Indonesians were landing in the north of Australia for centuries before Europeans arrived, that is historical fact, and they routinely met and traded with the locals.
Those locals saw ships, musical instruments, bows and arrows, plus all the other accoutrements of those cultures, and copied NONE of them, not a single one!
Also, there's this little thing called a fish-trap, very low-tech', a ring of rocks between the high and low tide levels, and it has appeared on every coast on the planet at one time or another, except Australia's.
There's ONE known example thereof, in Victoria I think, and that's widely believed to have been built by our early settlers or escaped convicts.
For whatever unknown reason the simple truth is that progress and technology just didn't happen here until Europeans arrived.
Aboriginal culture was minimal- survivalist, they did the bare minimum to survive, and not one skerrick more. That "culture" is at the heart of their problems today too.

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ian

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Re: Abbott Claims Oz Unsettled B4 British
Reply #129 - Jul 5^th, 2014 at 10:38am

Winston Smith wrote on Jul 5^th, 2014 at 8:26am:

Rhet-Oracle wrote on Jul 5^th, 2014 at 7:50am:

Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Jul 5^th, 2014 at 7:14am:

Tony Abbott stated yesterday Australia "unsettled' before Brits. Aborigines were only here 59,946 years before you.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BrsG7XSCMAAtRat.jpg

Yep, haven't they done well in all those years, a stick that doesn't come back. Grin

First of all you inherited the combined knowledge and wealth of a civilization that had spent hundreds of years plundering and raping of every corner of the planet, causing untold death and destruction.

Secondly, none of that has led to any real social advances, on the contrary it has led humanity into a cul-de-sac from which we likely will never emerge once the biota collapses and takes us with it.

Correction, its you and all the other beta males who are in a cul de sac. True Darwinism. lol.

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ian

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Re: Abbott Claims Oz Unsettled B4 British
Reply #130 - Jul 5^th, 2014 at 10:40am

Winston Smith wrote on Jul 5^th, 2014 at 9:36am:

ian wrote on Jul 5^th, 2014 at 9:28am:

Enquiring mind wrote on Jul 5^th, 2014 at 12:32am:

ian wrote on Jul 4^th, 2014 at 11:00pm:

Enquiring mind wrote on Jul 4^th, 2014 at 10:52pm:

ian wrote on Jul 4^th, 2014 at 10:13pm:

40,000 years of stagnant progress. Do you think their life expectancy would be any higher if we added another 200 years to the 40,000? You think they would have invented penicillin?

Most of the Eora Sydney Aboriginal population died from smallpox.

Penicillin didn’t do them much good.

and yet their life expectancy is around 65 now. Despite their decisions to make appalling lifestyle choices. Im a realist, cultural collision was inevitable as a result of inevitable colonisation. The stronger culture took over the weaker one, what is strong about the aboriginal culture will survive and will become part of our australian culture. Pretending that aboriginal culture was something that it wasnt doesnt serve their future, the future is assimilation.

By this measure, the Indonesians are the stronger culture because they have a bigger army.

Aboriginal culture was a lot of things, as was 18th century British culture. Neither was perfect or evil.

One just happened to borrow gunpowder from the Chinese before the other.

Our ancestors didnt conquer the abos because they had a bigger army, it was culture and technology. The sort of culture that made them develop technology to increase the food supply in response to population growth rather than practise infanticide.

Yes ian, the British conquered Australia for humanitarian reasons. Roll Eyes

Sure did but they were humanitarian reasons related to our own culture, not theirs.

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Winston Smith

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Re: Abbott Claims Oz Unsettled B4 British
Reply #131 - Jul 5^th, 2014 at 10:42am

ian wrote on Jul 5^th, 2014 at 10:38am:

Winston Smith wrote on Jul 5^th, 2014 at 8:26am:

Rhet-Oracle wrote on Jul 5^th, 2014 at 7:50am:

Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Jul 5^th, 2014 at 7:14am:

Tony Abbott stated yesterday Australia "unsettled' before Brits. Aborigines were only here 59,946 years before you.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BrsG7XSCMAAtRat.jpg

Yep, haven't they done well in all those years, a stick that doesn't come back. Grin

First of all you inherited the combined knowledge and wealth of a civilization that had spent hundreds of years plundering and raping of every corner of the planet, causing untold death and destruction.

Secondly, none of that has led to any real social advances, on the contrary it has led humanity into a cul-de-sac from which we likely will never emerge once the biota collapses and takes us with it.

Correction, its you and all the other beta males who are in a cul de sac. True Darwinism. lol.

ian wrote on Jul 5^th, 2014 at 10:40am:

Winston Smith wrote on Jul 5^th, 2014 at 9:36am:

ian wrote on Jul 5^th, 2014 at 9:28am:

Enquiring mind wrote on Jul 5^th, 2014 at 12:32am:

ian wrote on Jul 4^th, 2014 at 11:00pm:

Enquiring mind wrote on Jul 4^th, 2014 at 10:52pm:

ian wrote on Jul 4^th, 2014 at 10:13pm:

40,000 years of stagnant progress. Do you think their life expectancy would be any higher if we added another 200 years to the 40,000? You think they would have invented penicillin?

Most of the Eora Sydney Aboriginal population died from smallpox.

Penicillin didn’t do them much good.

and yet their life expectancy is around 65 now. Despite their decisions to make appalling lifestyle choices. Im a realist, cultural collision was inevitable as a result of inevitable colonisation. The stronger culture took over the weaker one, what is strong about the aboriginal culture will survive and will become part of our australian culture. Pretending that aboriginal culture was something that it wasnt doesnt serve their future, the future is assimilation.

By this measure, the Indonesians are the stronger culture because they have a bigger army.

Aboriginal culture was a lot of things, as was 18th century British culture. Neither was perfect or evil.

One just happened to borrow gunpowder from the Chinese before the other.

Our ancestors didnt conquer the abos because they had a bigger army, it was culture and technology. The sort of culture that made them develop technology to increase the food supply in response to population growth rather than practise infanticide.

Yes ian, the British conquered Australia for humanitarian reasons. Roll Eyes

Sure did but they were humanitarian reasons related to our own culture, not theirs.

Be careful what you post in impotent rage ian, each subsequent post is becoming less and less rational and coherent. Grin

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Andrei.Hicks

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Re: Abbott Claims Oz Unsettled B4 British
Reply #132 - Jul 5^th, 2014 at 10:43am

Winston Smith wrote on Jul 5^th, 2014 at 9:36am:

ian wrote on Jul 5^th, 2014 at 9:28am:

Enquiring mind wrote on Jul 5^th, 2014 at 12:32am:

ian wrote on Jul 4^th, 2014 at 11:00pm:

Enquiring mind wrote on Jul 4^th, 2014 at 10:52pm:

ian wrote on Jul 4^th, 2014 at 10:13pm:

40,000 years of stagnant progress. Do you think their life expectancy would be any higher if we added another 200 years to the 40,000? You think they would have invented penicillin?

Most of the Eora Sydney Aboriginal population died from smallpox.

Penicillin didn’t do them much good.

and yet their life expectancy is around 65 now. Despite their decisions to make appalling lifestyle choices. Im a realist, cultural collision was inevitable as a result of inevitable colonisation. The stronger culture took over the weaker one, what is strong about the aboriginal culture will survive and will become part of our australian culture. Pretending that aboriginal culture was something that it wasnt doesnt serve their future, the future is assimilation.

By this measure, the Indonesians are the stronger culture because they have a bigger army.

Aboriginal culture was a lot of things, as was 18th century British culture. Neither was perfect or evil.

One just happened to borrow gunpowder from the Chinese before the other.

Our ancestors didnt conquer the abos because they had a bigger army, it was culture and technology. The sort of culture that made them develop technology to increase the food supply in response to population growth rather than practise infanticide.

Yes ian, the British conquered Australia for humanitarian reasons. Roll Eyes

Britain didnt conquer Australia.
There was nothing there to conquer. There was no relevant civilisation to conquer. It was unsettled land in the eyes of the British Empire.

The Dutch hadnt stayed. Britain simply took possession of it.

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Winston Smith

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Re: Abbott Claims Oz Unsettled B4 British
Reply #133 - Jul 5^th, 2014 at 10:45am

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jul 5^th, 2014 at 10:43am:

Winston Smith wrote on Jul 5^th, 2014 at 9:36am:

ian wrote on Jul 5^th, 2014 at 9:28am:

Enquiring mind wrote on Jul 5^th, 2014 at 12:32am:

ian wrote on Jul 4^th, 2014 at 11:00pm:

Enquiring mind wrote on Jul 4^th, 2014 at 10:52pm:

ian wrote on Jul 4^th, 2014 at 10:13pm:

40,000 years of stagnant progress. Do you think their life expectancy would be any higher if we added another 200 years to the 40,000? You think they would have invented penicillin?

Most of the Eora Sydney Aboriginal population died from smallpox.

Penicillin didn’t do them much good.

and yet their life expectancy is around 65 now. Despite their decisions to make appalling lifestyle choices. Im a realist, cultural collision was inevitable as a result of inevitable colonisation. The stronger culture took over the weaker one, what is strong about the aboriginal culture will survive and will become part of our australian culture. Pretending that aboriginal culture was something that it wasnt doesnt serve their future, the future is assimilation.

By this measure, the Indonesians are the stronger culture because they have a bigger army.

Aboriginal culture was a lot of things, as was 18th century British culture. Neither was perfect or evil.

One just happened to borrow gunpowder from the Chinese before the other.

Our ancestors didnt conquer the abos because they had a bigger army, it was culture and technology. The sort of culture that made them develop technology to increase the food supply in response to population growth rather than practise infanticide.

Yes ian, the British conquered Australia for humanitarian reasons. Roll Eyes

Britain didnt conquer Australia.
There was nothing there to conquer. There was no relevant civilisation to conquer. It was unsettled land in the eyes of the British Empire.

The Dutch hadnt stayed. Britain simply took possession of it.

Just like there was nothing in South Africa to conquer right?

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Enquiring mind

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Re: Abbott Claims Oz Unsettled B4 British
Reply #134 - Jul 5^th, 2014 at 11:54am

ian wrote on Jul 5^th, 2014 at 9:28am:

Enquiring mind wrote on Jul 5^th, 2014 at 12:32am:

ian wrote on Jul 4^th, 2014 at 11:00pm:

Enquiring mind wrote on Jul 4^th, 2014 at 10:52pm:

ian wrote on Jul 4^th, 2014 at 10:13pm:

40,000 years of stagnant progress. Do you think their life expectancy would be any higher if we added another 200 years to the 40,000? You think they would have invented penicillin?

Most of the Eora Sydney Aboriginal population died from smallpox.

Penicillin didn’t do them much good.

and yet their life expectancy is around 65 now. Despite their decisions to make appalling lifestyle choices. Im a realist, cultural collision was inevitable as a result of inevitable colonisation. The stronger culture took over the weaker one, what is strong about the aboriginal culture will survive and will become part of our australian culture. Pretending that aboriginal culture was something that it wasnt doesnt serve their future, the future is assimilation.

By this measure, the Indonesians are the stronger culture because they have a bigger army.

Aboriginal culture was a lot of things, as was 18th century British culture. Neither was perfect or evil.

One just happened to borrow gunpowder from the Chinese before the other.

Our ancestors didnt conquer the abos because they had a bigger army, it was culture and technology. The sort of culture that made them develop technology to increase the food supply in response to population growth rather than practise infanticide.

The British almost starved in the first two years of the colony. They certainly would have died of thirst if they weren’t shown the waterholes, which they took over.

They did a lot of experimenting with crops and various soils, and they succeeded. 200 years on, however, you’d have to question the introduction of cattle farming, irrigation for cotton and other water-intensive crops, and a whole lot of other ridiculous decisions about land useage. The CSIRO certainly has. The National Farmers Federation has too.

The British in Australia weren’t smart because they overcame Aboriginal settlement, they were stupid for not learning how to adapt more. Watkins Tench and a couple of officers tried, but it was all for nought.

We won’t fix the Murray-Darling or the Barrier Reef. Many farmers won’t get arable land again. Phosphate-heavy farming is not sustainable - we literally won’t survive with the current cash-crop supply chain we have now.

But this is history. We buggered up with slavery and the colonies too. We started again. Our survival depends on our ability to fix our messes, and learn from others. There are no single stream of British or European set of values or technologies. Wheat is Babalonian.Christianity is Palestinian. Gunpowder is Chinese.

And all those place names on the map are Aboriginal.

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