Australian Politics Forum - Either Higher GST Or Hike In Income Tax

OldnCrusty

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Re: Either Higher GST Or Hike In Income Tax
Reply #15 - Jul 4^th, 2014 at 12:38pm

Swagman wrote on Jul 4^th, 2014 at 12:32pm:

The message is the same Crustyone.

Quote:

Either Higher GST Or Hike In Income Tax

They didn't add going into more debt by paying the bills with the credit card.....

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b76/timbo2530/MAXEDOUTCARD2.jpg

And it's been shown to be bullshot how many times Cheesy

.

You're not Tony Abbott masquerading are you? You have the same bullshot technique of repeating lies in the hope they'll come true.

As I said, a form of insanity Cheesy

.

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John Smith Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 77186 Gender:	Re: Either Higher GST Or Hike In Income Tax Reply #16 - Jul 4^th, 2014 at 12:48pm We don't need more GST and we don't need to raise tax Stop subsidising super, stop subsidising private industry, including health and eduication Clsoe the loop holes that allow foreign companies to pay little/no tax and there is more than enough money in the till to pay for services
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lee

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Re: Either Higher GST Or Hike In Income Tax
Reply #17 - Jul 4^th, 2014 at 12:52pm

OldnCrusty wrote on Jul 4^th, 2014 at 12:23pm:

That is not the reality; "The issue is the broadening gap between revenue and expenditure. And the govt can close the gap in a number of ways other than more taxes including a broader and more equitable tax base - get rid of many of the concessions. "

The statement and its intention are not fair statement and are meant to mislead.

So get rid of concessions- are they meaning business concessions, so that they pay more tax.

That is a mechanism. We can increase taxes by closing loopholes or by increasing tax rate.

We can reduce expenditure. My favourite way would be by reducing the number of politicians. With modern communications and transport- do we need as many? It would be more cost effective to reduce parliamentarians and increase staffers; staffers don't cost as much, both while employed or retired.

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lee Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 18865 Gender:	Re: Either Higher GST Or Hike In Income Tax Reply #18 - Jul 4^th, 2014 at 12:55pm John Smith wrote on Jul 4^th, 2014 at 12:48pm: and there is more than enough money in the till to pay for services With an ageing population, meaning less taxpayers and greater retired numbers, is that necessarily true? Or do you want reduced services?
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Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM

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Re: Either Higher GST Or Hike In Income Tax
Reply #19 - Jul 4^th, 2014 at 1:08pm

lee wrote on Jul 4^th, 2014 at 11:58am:

That statement is reality. You choose your level of taxation and budget for that level of taxation. You want more from your taxes- you have to increase them.

No - simple answer - you have a REVENUE problem - you resolve the discrepancies in REVENUE - you do not attack spending on established lines of debt to the public.

To approach this issue in the way currently envisaged is nothing but class war by those currently masquerading as the government on those they think cannot defend themselves and are too beaten down to do so. WRONG!

Taking a firm grip on the economy for a change and resolving YOUR revenue issues is far less likely to upset the applecart than taking from those who spend in the economy.

Pretty simple to me.

Now - about those tax dodges, rorts and concessions for the fat.....

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« Last Edit: Jul 4^th, 2014 at 1:18pm by Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM »

“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams

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OldnCrusty

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Re: Either Higher GST Or Hike In Income Tax
Reply #20 - Jul 4^th, 2014 at 1:14pm

lee wrote on Jul 4^th, 2014 at 12:55pm:

John Smith wrote on Jul 4^th, 2014 at 12:48pm:

and there is more than enough money in the till to pay for services

With an ageing population, meaning less taxpayers and greater retired numbers, is that necessarily true? Or do you want reduced services?

That's down the track, not tomorrow and not next years.

BUT the $30bil in tax concession etc is every year. How about we get that sorted, get the equality equation right and it will be right this year and in 30 years time. And it will get the budget in balance now and into the future so that in the future we might have an reserve to deal with an aging pop and any future GFC.

And there are other taxes bases that can be taxed for greater equality starting with the religions.

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John Smith

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Re: Either Higher GST Or Hike In Income Tax
Reply #21 - Jul 4^th, 2014 at 1:39pm

lee wrote on Jul 4^th, 2014 at 12:55pm:

John Smith wrote on Jul 4^th, 2014 at 12:48pm:

and there is more than enough money in the till to pay for services

With an ageing population, meaning less taxpayers and greater retired numbers, is that necessarily true? Or do you want reduced services?

rubbish .... the subsidies to super will in the near future cost us far far more than we spend on welfare

besides, all these old people on pensions will die off, leaving less numbers of retired.

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Swagman

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Re: Either Higher GST Or Hike In Income Tax
Reply #22 - Jul 4^th, 2014 at 1:54pm

OldnCrusty wrote on Jul 4^th, 2014 at 1:14pm:

lee wrote on Jul 4^th, 2014 at 12:55pm:

John Smith wrote on Jul 4^th, 2014 at 12:48pm:

and there is more than enough money in the till to pay for services

With an ageing population, meaning less taxpayers and greater retired numbers, is that necessarily true? Or do you want reduced services?

That's down the track, not tomorrow and not next years.

BUT the $30bil in tax concession etc is every year. How about we get that sorted, get the equality equation right and it will be right this year and in 30 years time. And it will get the budget in balance now and into the future so that in the future we might have an reserve to deal with an aging pop and any future GFC.

And there are other taxes bases that can be taxed for greater equality starting with the religions.

The impact of the aging population has already started.

The largest population increase was between 1945 to 1955. Those born in 1945 are already getting the pension. This will increase significantly over the next 10 years.

They stop paying tax and start being tax dependent.

You can't wait for 10 years to address this. Every year the situation will get more dire.

Remove the tax concession on super and people won't put money into super. They won't save, and they will have to be cared for by the tax-payer instead of being self funded.

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John Smith

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Re: Either Higher GST Or Hike In Income Tax
Reply #23 - Jul 4^th, 2014 at 1:59pm

Swagman wrote on Jul 4^th, 2014 at 1:54pm:

OldnCrusty wrote on Jul 4^th, 2014 at 1:14pm:

lee wrote on Jul 4^th, 2014 at 12:55pm:

John Smith wrote on Jul 4^th, 2014 at 12:48pm:

and there is more than enough money in the till to pay for services

With an ageing population, meaning less taxpayers and greater retired numbers, is that necessarily true? Or do you want reduced services?

That's down the track, not tomorrow and not next years.

BUT the $30bil in tax concession etc is every year. How about we get that sorted, get the equality equation right and it will be right this year and in 30 years time. And it will get the budget in balance now and into the future so that in the future we might have an reserve to deal with an aging pop and any future GFC.

And there are other taxes bases that can be taxed for greater equality starting with the religions.

The impact of the aging population has already started.

The largest population increase was between 1945 to 1955. Those born in 1945 are already getting the pension. This will increase significantly over the next 10 years.

They stop paying tax and start being tax dependent.

You can't wait for 10 years to address this. Every year the situation will get more dire.

Remove the tax concession on super and people won't put money into super. They won't save, and they will have to be cared for by the tax-payer instead of being self funded.

What a load of absolute croc .... by far the biggest rort to concessions on superannuation are SMSF's .... the average person does not have a SMSF ... they are used by the rich as a form of tax evasion, these people aren't going to claim a pension later on anyway.

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Swagman Gold Member Offline Beware of cheap imitations...... Posts: 15095 Illawarra NSW Gender:	Re: Either Higher GST Or Hike In Income Tax Reply #24 - Jul 4^th, 2014 at 2:02pm Can they access their funds Smithy? Why the hell would you contribute to super if there are zero incentives?
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John Smith

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Re: Either Higher GST Or Hike In Income Tax
Reply #25 - Jul 4^th, 2014 at 2:09pm

Swagman wrote on Jul 4^th, 2014 at 2:02pm:

Can they access their funds Smithy? Why the hell would you contribute to super if there are zero incentives?

the rich don't need super ...they're rich ...SMSF's are just a tool in their tax evasion war chest.

I've given this example before, so sorry if I'm repeating myself, but i know someone who makes OVER $300 000 a year on his super and pays no tax ....... and that's not touching the principle of millions he has invested in various portfolios

you think if he had no super he'd be on a pension? Grin

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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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lee Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 18865 Gender:	Re: Either Higher GST Or Hike In Income Tax Reply #26 - Jul 4^th, 2014 at 3:27pm John Smith wrote on Jul 4^th, 2014 at 2:09pm: i know someone who makes OVER $300 000 a year on his super and pays no tax Not even the mandatory 15%? Must be tax evasion. Dob him in.
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John Smith Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 77186 Gender:	Re: Either Higher GST Or Hike In Income Tax Reply #27 - Jul 4^th, 2014 at 4:23pm lee wrote on Jul 4^th, 2014 at 3:27pm: John Smith wrote on Jul 4^th, 2014 at 2:09pm: i know someone who makes OVER $300 000 a year on his super and pays no tax Not even the mandatory 15%? Must be tax evasion. Dob him in. for what? he's retired?
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Bam

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Re: Either Higher GST Or Hike In Income Tax
Reply #28 - Jul 4^th, 2014 at 4:30pm

Swagman wrote on Jul 4^th, 2014 at 1:54pm:

The impact of the aging population has already started.

The largest population increase was between 1945 to 1955. Those born in 1945 are already getting the pension. This will increase significantly over the next 10 years.

They stop paying tax and start being tax dependent.

You can't wait for 10 years to address this. Every year the situation will get more dire.

Keating knew this 25 years ago. It's why he started compulsory superannuation.

The Liberals still haven't worked this out. It's why they didn't increase compulsory superannuation at all during 11 long, wasted years under Howard and why the Liberals oppose increases now.

Quote:

Remove the tax concession on super and people won't put money into super. They won't save, and they will have to be cared for by the tax-payer instead of being self funded.

So does that mean you are opposed to taxing superannuation contributions by low-income earners at a higher rate than their top marginal tax rate?

A flat 15% tax rate is idiocy. It's blatantly unfair, does nothing to encourage saving by those that are most in need of encouragement, and only creates a vehicle for rorting taxation by the wealthy.

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Bam Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 21905 Gender:	Re: Either Higher GST Or Hike In Income Tax Reply #29 - Jul 4^th, 2014 at 4:35pm Swagman wrote on Jul 4^th, 2014 at 2:02pm: Can they access their funds Smithy? Why the hell would you contribute to super if there are zero incentives? They can if they have reached the age of 60 or so.
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