Forum

 
  Back to OzPolitic.com   Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register
  Forum Home Album HelpSearch Recent Rules LoginRegister  
 

Pages: 1 2 
Send Topic Print
Chomsky: protecting US "security" (Read 1498 times)
polite_gandalf
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 20027
Canberra
Gender: male
Chomsky: protecting US "security"
Jul 3rd, 2014 at 2:35pm
 
Contrary to what the kindergarten version of history will have you believe, US foreign policy over the last 60 years hasn't been dominated by some starry eyed concern for spreading human rights and democracy. In most cases the protection of US interests has been at the expense of both. Chomsky expands on his familiar themes of US "security" being overwhelmingly about the active suppression of independent economic development. 

Quote:
The administration of George H.W. Bush issued a new national security policy and defense budget in reaction to the collapse of the global enemy.  It was pretty much the same as before, although with new pretexts.  It was, it turned out, necessary to maintain a military establishment almost as great as the rest of the world combined and far more advanced in technological sophistication — but not for defense against the now-nonexistent Soviet Union.  Rather, the excuse now was the growing “technological sophistication” of Third World powers.  Disciplined intellectuals understood that it would have been improper to collapse in ridicule, so they maintained a proper silence.

The U.S., the new programs insisted, must maintain its “defense industrial base.” The phrase is a euphemism, referring to high-tech industry generally, which relies heavily on extensive state intervention for research and development, often under Pentagon cover, in what economists continue to call the U.S. “free-market economy.”

One of the most interesting provisions of the new plans had to do with the Middle East.  There, it was declared, Washington must maintain intervention forces targeting a crucial region where the major problems “could not have been laid at the Kremlin’s door.”  Contrary to 50 years of deceit, it was quietly conceded that the main concern was not the Russians, but rather what is called “radical nationalism,” meaning independent nationalism not under U.S. control.


The most intense efforts against democracy movements by the US has been in South and Central America...

Quote:
Another source of evidence is the declassified historical record.  It contains revealing accounts of the actual motives of state policy.  The story is rich and complex, but a few persistent themes play a dominant role.  One was articulated clearly at a western hemispheric conference called by the U.S. in Mexico in February 1945 where Washington imposed “An Economic Charter of the Americas” designed to eliminate economic nationalism “in all its forms.” There was one unspoken condition.  Economic nationalism would be fine for the U.S. whose economy relies heavily on massive state intervention.

The elimination of economic nationalism for others stood in sharp conflict with the Latin American stand of that moment, which State Department officials described as “the philosophy of the New Nationalism [that] embraces policies designed to bring about a broader distribution of wealth and to raise the standard of living of the masses.” As U.S. policy analysts added, “Latin Americans are convinced that the first beneficiaries of the development of a country’s resources should be the people of that country.”

That, of course, will not do.  Washington understands that the “first beneficiaries” should be U.S. investors, while Latin America fulfills its service function.  It should not, as both the Truman and Eisenhower administrations would make clear, undergo “excessive industrial development” that might infringe on U.S. interests.  Thus Brazil could produce low-quality steel that U.S. corporations did not want to bother with, but it would be “excessive,” were it to compete with U.S. firms.

Similar concerns resonate throughout the post-World War II period.  The global system that was to be dominated by the U.S. was threatened by what internal documents call “radical and nationalistic regimes” that respond to popular pressures for independent development.  That was the concern that motivated the overthrow of the parliamentary governments of Iran and Guatemala in 1953 and 1954, as well as numerous others.  In the case of Iran, a major concern was the potential impact of Iranian independence on Egypt, then in turmoil over British colonial practice.  In Guatemala, apart from the crime of the new democracy in empowering the peasant majority and infringing on possessions of the United Fruit Company — already offensive enough — Washington’s concern was labor unrest and popular mobilization in neighboring U.S.-backed dictatorships.
Back to top
 

A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:
Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
IP Logged
 
polite_gandalf
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 20027
Canberra
Gender: male
Re: Chomsky: protecting US "security"
Reply #1 - Jul 3rd, 2014 at 2:36pm
 
The virus of nationalism:

Quote:
To borrow Henry Kissinger’s terminology, independent nationalism is a “virus” that might “spread contagion.” Kissinger was referring to Salvador Allende’s Chile.  The virus was the idea that there might be a parliamentary path towards some kind of socialist democracy.  The way to deal with such a threat is to destroy the virus and to inoculate those who might be infected, typically by imposing murderous national security states.  That was achieved in the case of Chile, but it is important to recognize that the thinking holds worldwide.

It was, for example, the reasoning behind the decision to oppose Vietnamese nationalism in the early 1950s and support France’s effort to reconquer its former colony.  It was feared that independent Vietnamese nationalism might be a virus that would spread contagion to the surrounding regions, including resource-rich Indonesia.  That might even have led Japan — called the “superdomino” by Asia scholar John Dower — to become the industrial and commercial center of an independent new order of the kind imperial Japan had so recently fought to establish.  That, in turn, would have meant that the U.S. had lost the Pacific war, not an option to be considered in 1950.  The remedy was clear — and largely achieved.  Vietnam was virtually destroyed and ringed by military dictatorships that kept the “virus” from spreading contagion.

In retrospect, Kennedy-Johnson National Security Adviser McGeorge Bundy reflected that Washington should have ended the Vietnam War in 1965, when the Suharto dictatorship was installed in Indonesia, with enormous massacres that the CIA compared to the crimes of Hitler, Stalin, and Mao.  These were, however, greeted with unconstrained euphoria in the U.S. and the West generally because the “staggering bloodbath,” as the press cheerfully described it, ended any threat of contagion and opened Indonesia’s rich resources to western exploitation.  After that, the war to destroy Vietnam was superfluous, as Bundy recognized in retrospect.


http://zcomm.org/znetarticle/whose-security/
Back to top
 

A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:
Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
IP Logged
 
Winston Smith
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Ministry of Truth

Posts: 1549
Oceania
Gender: male
Re: Chomsky: protecting US "security"
Reply #2 - Jul 3rd, 2014 at 2:59pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Jul 3rd, 2014 at 2:35pm:
Contrary to what the kindergarten version of history will have you believe, US foreign policy over the last 60 years hasn't been dominated by some starry eyed concern for spreading human rights and democracy. In most cases the protection of US interests has been at the expense of both. Chomsky expands on his familiar themes of US "security" being overwhelmingly about the active suppression of independent economic development. 

Quote:
The administration of George H.W. Bush issued a new national security policy and defense budget in reaction to the collapse of the global enemy.  It was pretty much the same as before, although with new pretexts.  It was, it turned out, necessary to maintain a military establishment almost as great as the rest of the world combined and far more advanced in technological sophistication — but not for defense against the now-nonexistent Soviet Union.  Rather, the excuse now was the growing “technological sophistication” of Third World powers.  Disciplined intellectuals understood that it would have been improper to collapse in ridicule, so they maintained a proper silence.

The U.S., the new programs insisted, must maintain its “defense industrial base.” The phrase is a euphemism, referring to high-tech industry generally, which relies heavily on extensive state intervention for research and development, often under Pentagon cover, in what economists continue to call the U.S. “free-market economy.”

One of the most interesting provisions of the new plans had to do with the Middle East.  There, it was declared, Washington must maintain intervention forces targeting a crucial region where the major problems “could not have been laid at the Kremlin’s door.”  Contrary to 50 years of deceit, it was quietly conceded that the main concern was not the Russians, but rather what is called “radical nationalism,” meaning independent nationalism not under U.S. control.


The most intense efforts against democracy movements by the US has been in South and Central America...

Quote:
Another source of evidence is the declassified historical record.  It contains revealing accounts of the actual motives of state policy.  The story is rich and complex, but a few persistent themes play a dominant role.  One was articulated clearly at a western hemispheric conference called by the U.S. in Mexico in February 1945 where Washington imposed “An Economic Charter of the Americas” designed to eliminate economic nationalism “in all its forms.” There was one unspoken condition.  Economic nationalism would be fine for the U.S. whose economy relies heavily on massive state intervention.

The elimination of economic nationalism for others stood in sharp conflict with the Latin American stand of that moment, which State Department officials described as “the philosophy of the New Nationalism [that] embraces policies designed to bring about a broader distribution of wealth and to raise the standard of living of the masses.” As U.S. policy analysts added, “Latin Americans are convinced that the first beneficiaries of the development of a country’s resources should be the people of that country.”

That, of course, will not do.  Washington understands that the “first beneficiaries” should be U.S. investors, while Latin America fulfills its service function.  It should not, as both the Truman and Eisenhower administrations would make clear, undergo “excessive industrial development” that might infringe on U.S. interests.  Thus Brazil could produce low-quality steel that U.S. corporations did not want to bother with, but it would be “excessive,” were it to compete with U.S. firms.

Similar concerns resonate throughout the post-World War II period.  The global system that was to be dominated by the U.S. was threatened by what internal documents call “radical and nationalistic regimes” that respond to popular pressures for independent development.  That was the concern that motivated the overthrow of the parliamentary governments of Iran and Guatemala in 1953 and 1954, as well as numerous others.  In the case of Iran, a major concern was the potential impact of Iranian independence on Egypt, then in turmoil over British colonial practice.  In Guatemala, apart from the crime of the new democracy in empowering the peasant majority and infringing on possessions of the United Fruit Company — already offensive enough — Washington’s concern was labor unrest and popular mobilization in neighboring U.S.-backed dictatorships.


He is correct, this is why Western economic systems are a total sham facade for organised crime.

The USA is just the capstone of the pyramid.
Back to top
 

Big Brother is watching you
 
IP Logged
 
Chard
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Mein Führer! I can walk!

Posts: 1077
Alabama, USA
Gender: male
Re: Chomsky: protecting US "security"
Reply #3 - Jul 6th, 2014 at 7:07am
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Jul 3rd, 2014 at 2:35pm:
Contrary to what the kindergarten version of history will have you believe, US foreign policy over the last 60 years hasn't been dominated by some starry eyed concern for spreading human rights and democracy.


Just the last sixty years? Really?

Try 238 years, guy. The United States has been doing this from our very inception, and for that matter, so has every other smacking nation on earth since the dawn of civilization. ALL state-actors act in their own self interests all the time. It's the one constant to international politics, and that you or that sh*thead Chomsky think this is at all a new or even remotely revolutionary thought is, quite frankly, mind boggling.
Back to top
 

Deterrence is the art of producing in the mind of the enemy... the FEAR to attack.
 
IP Logged
 
freediver
Gold Member
*****
Offline


www.ozpolitic.com

Posts: 53410
At my desk.
Re: Chomsky: protecting US "security"
Reply #4 - Jul 6th, 2014 at 7:31am
 
Name one current or historical nation or empire that you would prefer to have as the sole global super power. That's what we call perspective.
Back to top
 

People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Chard
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Mein Führer! I can walk!

Posts: 1077
Alabama, USA
Gender: male
Re: Chomsky: protecting US "security"
Reply #5 - Jul 6th, 2014 at 8:42am
 
freediver wrote on Jul 6th, 2014 at 7:31am:
Name one current or historical nation or empire that you would prefer to have as the sole global super power. That's what we call perspective.


None of them. That's the point. Can you name one? Niether can I. All we can name is what is the least worst opion. At current, it's western democracy, and let's face it, that isn't all that great of an option either.

But it beats the poo out of the alternatives.

Also, thank you for failing to address my actual post points, which was "This isn't new at all, it isn't something that happened in the last sixty years, and it's something EVERY nation does".
Back to top
 

Deterrence is the art of producing in the mind of the enemy... the FEAR to attack.
 
IP Logged
 
freediver
Gold Member
*****
Offline


www.ozpolitic.com

Posts: 53410
At my desk.
Re: Chomsky: protecting US "security"
Reply #6 - Jul 6th, 2014 at 10:17am
 
SO how's the weather down your way?
Back to top
 

People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Chard
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Mein Führer! I can walk!

Posts: 1077
Alabama, USA
Gender: male
Re: Chomsky: protecting US "security"
Reply #7 - Jul 6th, 2014 at 10:54am
 
freediver wrote on Jul 6th, 2014 at 10:17am:
SO how's the weather down your way?


Hot. The temp the other dy got into the high 90s (F), wth a heat index of 110F. Seriously, I think I saw a poor little ginger lad spontaneously combust.
Back to top
 

Deterrence is the art of producing in the mind of the enemy... the FEAR to attack.
 
IP Logged
 
Winston Smith
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Ministry of Truth

Posts: 1549
Oceania
Gender: male
Re: Chomsky: protecting US "security"
Reply #8 - Jul 6th, 2014 at 10:57am
 
Chard wrote on Jul 6th, 2014 at 8:42am:
freediver wrote on Jul 6th, 2014 at 7:31am:
Name one current or historical nation or empire that you would prefer to have as the sole global super power. That's what we call perspective.


None of them. That's the point. Can you name one? Niether can I. All we can name is what is the least worst opion. At current, it's western democracy, and let's face it, that isn't all that great of an option either.

But it beats the poo out of the alternatives.

Also, thank you for failing to address my actual post points, which was "This isn't new at all, it isn't something that happened in the last sixty years, and it's something EVERY nation does".


What a load of apologistic tripe.
Back to top
 

Big Brother is watching you
 
IP Logged
 
Chard
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Mein Führer! I can walk!

Posts: 1077
Alabama, USA
Gender: male
Re: Chomsky: protecting US "security"
Reply #9 - Jul 6th, 2014 at 11:09am
 
Winston Smith wrote on Jul 6th, 2014 at 10:57am:
Chard wrote on Jul 6th, 2014 at 8:42am:
freediver wrote on Jul 6th, 2014 at 7:31am:
Name one current or historical nation or empire that you would prefer to have as the sole global super power. That's what we call perspective.


None of them. That's the point. Can you name one? Niether can I. All we can name is what is the least worst opion. At current, it's western democracy, and let's face it, that isn't all that great of an option either.

But it beats the poo out of the alternatives.

Also, thank you for failing to address my actual post points, which was "This isn't new at all, it isn't something that happened in the last sixty years, and it's something EVERY nation does".


What a load of apologistic tripe.


Did I say "sorry" in any of that, buddy (The big clue is I'm ot a smacking Canadian)? No, I did not. I'm not apologizing for a goddamn thing,
edit
.  I'm stating the way things are and have been for far longer than your presumptuous ass has been sucking air on my planet. I am not apologetic in the least, boy. How about you try adding something useful to the thread, like a counter-argument to my claim that all nations always act in their self interests first.
Back to top
« Last Edit: Jul 6th, 2014 at 11:17pm by polite_gandalf »  

Deterrence is the art of producing in the mind of the enemy... the FEAR to attack.
 
IP Logged
 
Winston Smith
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Ministry of Truth

Posts: 1549
Oceania
Gender: male
Re: Chomsky: protecting US "security"
Reply #10 - Jul 6th, 2014 at 3:37pm
 
Chard wrote on Jul 6th, 2014 at 11:09am:
Winston Smith wrote on Jul 6th, 2014 at 10:57am:
Chard wrote on Jul 6th, 2014 at 8:42am:
freediver wrote on Jul 6th, 2014 at 7:31am:
Name one current or historical nation or empire that you would prefer to have as the sole global super power. That's what we call perspective.


None of them. That's the point. Can you name one? Niether can I. All we can name is what is the least worst opion. At current, it's western democracy, and let's face it, that isn't all that great of an option either.

But it beats the poo out of the alternatives.

Also, thank you for failing to address my actual post points, which was "This isn't new at all, it isn't something that happened in the last sixty years, and it's something EVERY nation does".


What a load of apologistic tripe.


Did I say "sorry" in any of that, buddy (The big clue is I'm ot a smacking Canadian)? No, I did not. I'm not apologizing for a goddamn thing, asshole.  I'm stating the way things are and have been for far longer than your presumptuous ass has been sucking air on my planet. I am not apologetic in the least, boy. How about you try adding something useful to the thread, like a counter-argument to my claim that all nations always act in their self interests first.


You're saying we're lucky, it could be a lot worse. I'm saying it could be a lot better. You are looking for reasons not to take a critical view of the status quo. You're attitude stinks too,
edit
Back to top
« Last Edit: Jul 9th, 2014 at 12:00pm by polite_gandalf »  

Big Brother is watching you
 
IP Logged
 
polite_gandalf
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 20027
Canberra
Gender: male
Re: Chomsky: protecting US "security"
Reply #11 - Jul 6th, 2014 at 11:15pm
 
freediver wrote on Jul 6th, 2014 at 7:31am:
Name one current or historical nation or empire that you would prefer to have as the sole global super power. That's what we call perspective.


Thats not an argument FD, its not even a relevant point here.
Back to top
 

A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:
Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
IP Logged
 
freediver
Gold Member
*****
Offline


www.ozpolitic.com

Posts: 53410
At my desk.
Re: Chomsky: protecting US "security"
Reply #12 - Jul 8th, 2014 at 10:13am
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Jul 6th, 2014 at 11:15pm:
freediver wrote on Jul 6th, 2014 at 7:31am:
Name one current or historical nation or empire that you would prefer to have as the sole global super power. That's what we call perspective.


Thats not an argument FD, its not even a relevant point here.


You forget to mention that America has really bad coffee. It's truly aweful. The sooner America stops ruling the world, the better. Green tea is much better.
Back to top
 

People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.
WWW  
IP Logged
 
polite_gandalf
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 20027
Canberra
Gender: male
Re: Chomsky: protecting US "security"
Reply #13 - Jul 8th, 2014 at 11:28am
 
The US may or may not be the best option for a sole super power. But that has nothing whatsoever to do with whether we should submit to a patently false version of history, and ignore the lessons from that.

Its spineless apologetics from people like you who are enabling abuses like secret torture and rendition, smuggling arms to listed terrorists and creating failed states like in Iraq and Libya.
Back to top
 

A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:
Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
IP Logged
 
Chard
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Mein Führer! I can walk!

Posts: 1077
Alabama, USA
Gender: male
Re: Chomsky: protecting US "security"
Reply #14 - Jul 8th, 2014 at 10:57pm
 
Winston Smith wrote on Jul 6th, 2014 at 3:37pm:
You're saying we're lucky, it could be a lot worse. I'm saying it could be a lot better. You are looking for reasons not to take a critical view of the status quo.


Bullsh*t. Seriously, if you're not going to actually read what I wrote and respond to that instead of inventing sh*t I explicitly did not say in order to build another retarded strawman then do us both a favor and don't talk to me. I have neither the patience or the attitude to deal with liars. Be honest or f*ck off.


edit
Back to top
« Last Edit: Jul 9th, 2014 at 12:00pm by polite_gandalf »  

Deterrence is the art of producing in the mind of the enemy... the FEAR to attack.
 
IP Logged
 
Pages: 1 2 
Send Topic Print