Australian Politics Forum - Mr Joseph Stiglitz - Nobel Prize Winning Economist

Winston Smith

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Re: Mr Joseph Stiglitz - Nobel Prize Winning Economist
Reply #15 - Jul 3^rd, 2014 at 10:43am

MOTR wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2014 at 10:39am:

Winston Smith wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2014 at 10:32am:

crocodile wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2014 at 7:52am:

Many around here would regard Stiglitz as a little too far to the left for their liking. Some would also regard his love affair with Keynes to be a tad over the top.

The factual acuracy of his comments are all 'some people' should worry about.

Away you go, Winston, the floor is all yours.

Fancy a discussion on externalities.

Are you asking me something? Can you please clarify?

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Grappler Racist Filth

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Re: Mr Joseph Stiglitz - Nobel Prize Winning Economist
Reply #16 - Jul 3^rd, 2014 at 10:49am

OldnCrusty wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2014 at 7:52am:

Do you need a degree and a Nobel Prize to figure that out?

Shite, I must be a lot smarter than I give myself credit for. Grin

Oh, and mark my other unqualified economic prediction; this budget is recessionary Angry

.

Thing is, Old, the old common sense is never accepted unless it has the stamp of approval of a high-flying professor or similar. One reason I devised The Learned Professor of the Bleedingly Obvious Stated in High-sounding Terms (BOSHT), Thaddeus Grimoire, as a teaching tool.

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams

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MOTR

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Re: Mr Joseph Stiglitz - Nobel Prize Winning Economist
Reply #17 - Jul 3^rd, 2014 at 11:05am

Winston Smith wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2014 at 10:43am:

MOTR wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2014 at 10:39am:

Winston Smith wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2014 at 10:32am:

crocodile wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2014 at 7:52am:

Many around here would regard Stiglitz as a little too far to the left for their liking. Some would also regard his love affair with Keynes to be a tad over the top.

The factual acuracy of his comments are all 'some people' should worry about.

Away you go, Winston, the floor is all yours.

Fancy a discussion on externalities.

Are you asking me something? Can you please clarify?

I was inviting you to comment on the factual accuracy of Stiglitz's comments.

It sounds like his conclusions must come from an externality argument.

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Hunt says Coalition accepts IPCC findings

"What does this mean? It means that we need to do practical things that actually reduce emissions."

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Swagman

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Re: Mr Joseph Stiglitz - Nobel Prize Winning Economist
Reply #18 - Jul 3^rd, 2014 at 12:57pm

MOTR wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2014 at 11:05am:

Winston Smith wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2014 at 10:43am:

MOTR wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2014 at 10:39am:

Winston Smith wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2014 at 10:32am:

crocodile wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2014 at 7:52am:

Many around here would regard Stiglitz as a little too far to the left for their liking. Some would also regard his love affair with Keynes to be a tad over the top.

The factual acuracy of his comments are all 'some people' should worry about.

Away you go, Winston, the floor is all yours.

Fancy a discussion on externalities.

Are you asking me something? Can you please clarify?

I was inviting you to comment on the factual accuracy of Stiglitz's comments.

It sounds like his conclusions must come from an externality argument.

I like his idea about reducing wages to reduce unemployment.

I wonder how the 'Stig' feels on 'penalty rates'.

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OldnCrusty

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Re: Mr Joseph Stiglitz - Nobel Prize Winning Economist
Reply #19 - Jul 3^rd, 2014 at 1:17pm

Swagman wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2014 at 12:57pm:

MOTR wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2014 at 11:05am:

Winston Smith wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2014 at 10:43am:

MOTR wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2014 at 10:39am:

Winston Smith wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2014 at 10:32am:

crocodile wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2014 at 7:52am:

Many around here would regard Stiglitz as a little too far to the left for their liking. Some would also regard his love affair with Keynes to be a tad over the top.

The factual acuracy of his comments are all 'some people' should worry about.

Away you go, Winston, the floor is all yours.

Fancy a discussion on externalities.

Are you asking me something? Can you please clarify?

I was inviting you to comment on the factual accuracy of Stiglitz's comments.

It sounds like his conclusions must come from an externality argument.

I like his idea about reducing wages to reduce unemployment.

I wonder how the 'Stig' feels on 'penalty rates'.

Both wages and profit are artificially propped up by the law, welfare and other legal stratagems.

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Enquiring mind Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 104363	Re: Mr Joseph Stiglitz - Nobel Prize Winning Economist Reply #20 - Jul 3^rd, 2014 at 1:40pm Dsmithy70 wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2014 at 10:13am: Suddenly a Nobel Prize will be sub par to a key ring in a cereal packet, but of course a "Rhodes" will still be an outstanding achievement. I agree. Thank heavens the grown-ups are back in charge.
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austranger

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Re: Mr Joseph Stiglitz - Nobel Prize Winning Economist
Reply #21 - Jul 3^rd, 2014 at 2:08pm

Swagman wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2014 at 10:38am:

The economic Stig has some interesting theories on wages

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Stiglitz

Quote:

1.Wages do not fall enough during recessions Shocked

to prevent unemployment from rising. If the demand for labour falls, this lowers wages. But because wages have fallen, the probability of 'shirking' (workers not exerting effort) has risen. If employment levels are to be maintained, through a sufficient lowering of wages, workers will be less productive than before through the shirking effect. As a consequence, in the model, wages do not fall enough to maintain employment levels at the previous state, because firms want to avoid excessive shirking by their workers. So, unemployment must rise during recessions, because wages are kept 'too high' Shocked

.

'the shirking effect' Grin

he may be on to something there....no wonder he got the Nobel prize... Wink

What do you think of that Mr Crook?

He didn't say that wages had any effect on a recession. Not to mention the minor detail that we're NOT in a recession as yet, although the Canetoad is doing his best to remedy that.
Nor did he comment on profit margins, which the Canetoad and his buddies seem to think should be maintained during any recession by undercutting wages and conditions, an obvious fallacy and self-destructive for all concerned.
You really need to take some more lessons from your Canetoad God if you want to be able to twist reality at his level, you're rather inept at it I'm afraid.
Grin

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Any day with a smile in it is a good day

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perceptions_now

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Re: Mr Joseph Stiglitz - Nobel Prize Winning Economist
Reply #22 - Jul 3^rd, 2014 at 2:26pm

Fact 1 -
Both major Economic theories (Keynesian & Austrian) have been applied & applied successfully, during the modern Economic era, at the appropriate time/s during the Economic cycle/s!

Fact 2 -
Both major Economic theories (Keynesian & Austrian) are now failing & both will continue to FAIL in the near to medium term future, BECAUSE the underlying Factors which have driven Economic Growth over much of the last 200 years or so, are now in Decline and there is nothing that either Economic theory can do to alter the outcomes, which are now set in concrete, for at least the next 2 to 3 decades!

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OldnCrusty

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Re: Mr Joseph Stiglitz - Nobel Prize Winning Economist
Reply #23 - Jul 3^rd, 2014 at 3:04pm

perceptions_now wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2014 at 2:26pm:

Fact 1 -
Both major Economic theories (Keynesian & Austrian) have been applied & applied successfully, during the modern Economic era, at the appropriate time/s during the Economic cycle/s!

Fact 2 -
Both major Economic theories (Keynesian & Austrian) are now failing & both will continue to FAIL in the near to medium term future, BECAUSE the underlying Factors which have driven Economic Growth over much of the last 200 years or so, are now in Decline and there is nothing that either Economic theory can do to alter the outcomes, which are now set in concrete, for at least the next 2 to 3 decades!

Yep, I would agree with that but I think our situation is transitional and 'new thinking' should be applied more to the middle and long term rather than the immediate - this budget is recessionary, taking away spending power and knocking the stuffing out of consumer confidence.

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Swagman Gold Member Offline Beware of cheap imitations...... Posts: 15095 Illawarra NSW Gender:	Re: Mr Joseph Stiglitz - Nobel Prize Winning Economist Reply #24 - Jul 3^rd, 2014 at 8:47pm austranger wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2014 at 2:08pm: He didn't say that wages had any effect on a recession ..his view is that artificially priced wages increase unemployment and I agree with him on that one. Mr Crook would be horrified his poster boy is anti-penalty rates
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crocodile

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Re: Mr Joseph Stiglitz - Nobel Prize Winning Economist
Reply #25 - Jul 3^rd, 2014 at 11:08pm

Swagman wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2014 at 8:47pm:

austranger wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2014 at 2:08pm:

He didn't say that wages had any effect on a recession

..his view is that artificially priced wages increase unemployment and I agree with him on that one.

Mr Crook would be horrified his poster boy is anti-penalty rates

Stiglitz has that view. It is true if the floor price of the wages in question is above the market clearing rate. Almost axiomatic in a downturn. The rise in unemployment becomes a matter of public policy as to what level is reasonably tolerated.

As an economist, Stiglitz's major work is in studying and modelling the historical data related to past economic events. He doesn't really predict future outcomes or offer solutions very often. His Nobel prize is for his work in analysis and modelling. I don't know him at all but I suspect his admiration for Keynes stems from their strict adherence to modelling and mathematical rigour. The Austrians dismiss this type of analysis.

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Very funny Scotty, now beam down my clothes.

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crocodile

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Re: Mr Joseph Stiglitz - Nobel Prize Winning Economist
Reply #26 - Jul 3^rd, 2014 at 11:16pm

Quote:

Fact 1 -
Both major Economic theories (Keynesian & Austrian) have been applied & applied successfully, during the modern Economic era, at the appropriate time/s during the Economic cycle/s!

It seems more likely that administrators simply cherry pick the bits they like from both schools and implement them at the same time. I really see no evidence of a strict Austrian implementation anywhere in recent times. Certainly not a successful one. The same goes for Keynes but perhaps to a lesser extent but with the same success.

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Very funny Scotty, now beam down my clothes.

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progressiveslol Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 17029	Re: Mr Joseph Stiglitz - Nobel Prize Winning Economist Reply #27 - Jul 3^rd, 2014 at 11:34pm Obama won a nobel prize and he is the biggest war monger of them all. The nobel prizes are only there to uplift the ratbag lefties who know and do squat for society.
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