Australian Politics Forum - PM Abbott a habitial liar.

Kytro

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Re: PM Abbott a habitial liar.
Reply #30 - Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 3:36pm

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 3:17pm:

I guess you've never heard of Alaska, Canada, Russia & Siberia, Finland, Iceland?

Renewable usage:

Alaska: Couldn't find it, but in theory could run from 100% wind.
Canada: 59% from Hydro (2006) + Wind is currently growing
Finland: 25.9% (2009)
Russia: 21% Hydro. Minimal others. Plenty of resources, just focused on oil and gas.
Iceland: 85% renewable currently (100% for electricity)

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austranger

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Re: PM Abbott a habitial liar.
Reply #31 - Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 3:41pm

Now here's an interesting idea, and one that the Canetoad and his cronies hate to hear.
A National Network, with Solar, Wind, Tidal, Geothermic, and whatever other renewable source you care to nominate, all working together across the whole country, that would appear to solve all the baseload difficulties, and it would enable a complete cessation of the polluting coal generation as well. You could even include a gas or bio-waste fired backup for minor shortages or industrial needs without too many problems. Wink

Think we could sell that to the Canetoad? Grin

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Enquiring mind

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Re: PM Abbott a habitial liar.
Reply #32 - Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 10:02pm

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 2:37pm:

Enquiring mind wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 2:30pm:

My prediction is that houses in future will be designed and built with 100% solar power - completely off the grid.

Wouldn't it be nice, eh? Sounds great, but I can't see a situation where that could be feasible, given that clouds would just make it an impossibility in some places, as well as the fact that some regions in the extreme north and south face months of darkness on end..

Which explains the importance of building design. There are already houses in Europe that are energy positive. I.e, they give more to the grid than they take from it. And this includes European Winters.

The next technological evolution is batteries. A US battery company will up.and running by the end of the year - the biggest in the world. The prediction is that, in future, household power storage will be kept in the garage or basement.

A large proportion of the world has little electricity at all . I’ve just come back from Palawan in the Philippines. In the north of the island, electricity runs from 2pm to 6am. People use generators.

Australia is in a perfect position for solar power. Canberra aims to be 90% renewable by 2030. They’re currently building a solar farm there.

So with good house design, solar panels and batteries, backed up with renewable energy from.the grid, Australian households could feasably be energy neutral in the not-so-distant future.

This is not just a nice idea - it’s a cheap idea. It will be driven, not by people trying to cut emissions, but by demand for low-cost energy.

The biggest uptake of solar power in Australia is Blacktown in Sydney’s west.

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Enquiring mind Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 104851	Re: PM Abbott a habitial liar. Reply #33 - Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 10:05pm Kytro wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 3:36pm: Armchair_Politician wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 3:17pm: I guess you've never heard of Alaska, Canada, Russia & Siberia, Finland, Iceland? Renewable usage: Iceland: 85% renewable currently (100% for electricity) Wow.
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DaS Energy

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Re: PM Abbott a habitial liar.
Reply #34 - Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 11:28pm

Enquiring mind wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 10:02pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 2:37pm:

Enquiring mind wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 2:30pm:

My prediction is that houses in future will be designed and built with 100% solar power - completely off the grid.

Wouldn't it be nice, eh? Sounds great, but I can't see a situation where that could be feasible, given that clouds would just make it an impossibility in some places, as well as the fact that some regions in the extreme north and south face months of darkness on end..

Which explains the importance of building design. There are already houses in Europe that are energy positive. I.e, they give more to the grid than they take from it. And this includes European Winters.

The next technological evolution is batteries. A US battery company will up.and running by the end of the year - the biggest in the world. The prediction is that, in future, household power storage will be kept in the garage or basement.

A large proportion of the world has little electricity at all . I’ve just come back from Palawan in the Philippines. In the north of the island, electricity runs from 2pm to 6am. People use generators.

Australia is in a perfect position for solar power. Canberra aims to be 90% renewable by 2030. They’re currently building a solar farm there.

So with good house design, solar panels and batteries, backed up with renewable energy from.the grid, Australian households could feasably be energy neutral in the not-so-distant future.

This is not just a nice idea - it’s a cheap idea. It will be driven, not by people trying to cut emissions, but by demand for low-cost energy.

The biggest uptake of solar power in Australia is Blacktown in Sydney’s west.

All valid! Problem is Government decide at the time,what where and when, the 20% of electricity not come from Coal!

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DaS Energy

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Re: PM Abbott a habitial liar.
Reply #35 - Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 11:32pm

Enquiring mind wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 10:05pm:

Kytro wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 3:36pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 3:17pm:

I guess you've never heard of Alaska, Canada, Russia & Siberia, Finland, Iceland?

Renewable usage:

Iceland: 85% renewable currently (100% for electricity)

Wow.

Tasmania is out! Its Hydro. Bit ify with climate change and river diversions. But no reason given!

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Armchair_Politician

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Re: PM Abbott a habitial liar.
Reply #36 - Jul 3^rd, 2014 at 3:38am

Bam wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 3:26pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 3:17pm:

John Smith wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 3:07pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 3:05pm:

John Smith wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 3:00pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 2:37pm:

Enquiring mind wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 2:30pm:

My prediction is that houses in future will be designed and built with 100% solar power - completely off the grid.

Wouldn't it be nice, eh? Sounds great, but I can't see a situation where that could be feasible, given that clouds would just make it an impossibility in some places, as well as the fact that some regions in the extreme north and south face months of darkness on end. We will always rely on power stations to some degree. What powers them and how big they are in 100 years time is anyone's guess.

In Australia? Grin

name these regions ?

Did I mention Australia? Duh!

so your argument against renewables is that the North Pole and Antartica have several months of darkness?
Grin

I guess you've never heard of Alaska, Canada, Russia & Siberia, Finland, Iceland?

I guess you haven't heard of wind power and other forms of sustainable energy? Who ever said sustainable energy HAD to be solar?

I never said it had to be solar, I just gave one example.

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Armchair_Politician

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Re: PM Abbott a habitial liar.
Reply #37 - Jul 3^rd, 2014 at 3:40am

John Smith wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 3:31pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 3:17pm:

John Smith wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 3:07pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 3:05pm:

John Smith wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 3:00pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 2:37pm:

Enquiring mind wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 2:30pm:

My prediction is that houses in future will be designed and built with 100% solar power - completely off the grid.

Wouldn't it be nice, eh? Sounds great, but I can't see a situation where that could be feasible, given that clouds would just make it an impossibility in some places, as well as the fact that some regions in the extreme north and south face months of darkness on end. We will always rely on power stations to some degree. What powers them and how big they are in 100 years time is anyone's guess.

In Australia? Grin

name these regions ?

Did I mention Australia? Duh!

so your argument against renewables is that the North Pole and Antartica have several months of darkness?
Grin

I guess you've never heard of Alaska, Canada, Russia & Siberia, Finland, Iceland?

sure, but what have they to do with the price of electricity in Australia? Grin

Again, I never mentioned Australia...

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John Smith

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Re: PM Abbott a habitial liar.
Reply #38 - Jul 3^rd, 2014 at 9:02am

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2014 at 3:40am:

John Smith wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 3:31pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 3:17pm:

John Smith wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 3:07pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 3:05pm:

John Smith wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 3:00pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 2:37pm:

Enquiring mind wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 2:30pm:

My prediction is that houses in future will be designed and built with 100% solar power - completely off the grid.

Wouldn't it be nice, eh? Sounds great, but I can't see a situation where that could be feasible, given that clouds would just make it an impossibility in some places, as well as the fact that some regions in the extreme north and south face months of darkness on end. We will always rely on power stations to some degree. What powers them and how big they are in 100 years time is anyone's guess.

In Australia? Grin

name these regions ?

Did I mention Australia? Duh!

so your argument against renewables is that the North Pole and Antartica have several months of darkness?
Grin

I guess you've never heard of Alaska, Canada, Russia & Siberia, Finland, Iceland?

sure, but what have they to do with the price of electricity in Australia? Grin

Again, I never mentioned Australia...

you didn't have to .. the OP was talking about the effects to electricity prices in Australia ... you jumped in with some areas have months of no sun ... what's the matter? you don't read what you are responding too?

From the OP
Prime Minister Tony Abbott has again expressed concerns about the renewable energy target (RET), saying it drives up power prices and threatens
Australian
companies and households." Sky-News.

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I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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Enquiring mind

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Re: PM Abbott a habitial liar.
Reply #39 - Jul 3^rd, 2014 at 12:59pm

John Smith wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2014 at 9:02am:

From the OP
Prime Minister Tony Abbott has again expressed concerns about the renewable energy target (RET), saying it drives up power prices and threatens
Australian
companies and households." Sky-News.

The one thing that drives up electricity prices is infrastructure investment by the electricity companies. This is how they make their money - they build a power station or lay down more wires and pass the costs (plus interest) to the customer.

In a number of cases, they've built power stations and then closed them down due to the lack of demand. They've laid 40 billion dollars of dollars worth of new cables along the east coast. The rationale is keeping up with perceived demand for more power. In reality, household power usage has dropped by 15%.

The cause of the higher prices is a new clause inserted in the electricity contracts during the GFC. The electricity companies were given the right to pass on their interest payments at the rate of 10% - this was based on the higher cost of credit during the GFC.

This means that the electricity providers make a profit on investment in the grid. The GFC clause saw a rush of new projects and upgrades, and all in the name of profit. These costs were passed straight onto the customers, and the "retail" rate charged for electricty - not to mention new service charges and fees - has doubled.

The RET has had little to no impact on the price of electricity. The carbon tax has added about 9% to power bills.

The reason for recent price hikes is investment in the grid.

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John Smith

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Re: PM Abbott a habitial liar.
Reply #40 - Jul 3^rd, 2014 at 3:34pm

Enquiring mind wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2014 at 12:59pm:

John Smith wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2014 at 9:02am:

From the OP
Prime Minister Tony Abbott has again expressed concerns about the renewable energy target (RET), saying it drives up power prices and threatens
Australian
companies and households." Sky-News.

The one thing that drives up electricity prices is infrastructure investment by the electricity companies. This is how they make their money - they build a power station or lay down more wires and pass the costs (plus interest) to the customer.

In a number of cases, they've built power stations and then closed them down due to the lack of demand. They've laid 40 billion dollars of dollars worth of new cables along the east coast. The rationale is keeping up with perceived demand for more power. In reality, household power usage has dropped by 15%.

The cause of the higher prices is a new clause inserted in the electricity contracts during the GFC. The electricity companies were given the right to pass on their interest payments at the rate of 10% - this was based on the higher cost of credit during the GFC.

This means that the electricity providers make a profit on investment in the grid. The GFC clause saw a rush of new projects and upgrades, and all in the name of profit. These costs were passed straight onto the customers, and the "retail" rate charged for electricty - not to mention new service charges and fees - has doubled.

The RET has had little to no impact on the price of electricity. The carbon tax has added about 9% to power bills.

The reason for recent price hikes is investment in the grid.

no need to convince me, I already agree with you. Armpit and Grendel are the ones who seems to think its because of renawable energy Cheesy

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Grendel

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Re: PM Abbott a habitial liar.
Reply #41 - Jul 3^rd, 2014 at 3:45pm

Kytro wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 3:36pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 3:17pm:

I guess you've never heard of Alaska, Canada, Russia & Siberia, Finland, Iceland?

Renewable usage:

Alaska: Couldn't find it, but in theory could run from 100% wind.
Canada: 59% from Hydro (2006) + Wind is currently growing
Finland: 25.9% (2009)
Russia: 21% Hydro. Minimal others. Plenty of resources, just focused on oil and gas.
Iceland: 85% renewable currently (100% for electricity)

Interesting isn't it... that you failed to mention the power supply for Iceland... hydro isn't it?
Well seeing as we in Australia inhabit the most arid continent on the planet that sustains a population... hydro might be a bit hard to come by. Oh and lets not forget Iceland has a great deal of Geothermal too... doesn't it. When was the last time we had an active Volcano in Australia? Isn't the local thermal springs of any scale in New Zealand?
If you want to compare things in future make sure you compare apples with apples.

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Grendel

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Re: PM Abbott a habitial liar.
Reply #42 - Jul 3^rd, 2014 at 3:50pm

Enquiring mind wrote on Jul 1^st, 2014 at 10:17pm:

Grendel wrote on Jul 1^st, 2014 at 9:56pm:

ian wrote on Jul 1^st, 2014 at 9:45pm:

Grendel wrote on Jul 1^st, 2014 at 9:41pm:

John Smith wrote on Jul 1^st, 2014 at 9:37pm:

Grendel wrote on Jul 1^st, 2014 at 9:28pm:

Renewables aren't cheap and they have driven the price of electricty up... Cheesy

no, greedy company executives have driven the price of electricity up ...... and as they lose market share to renewables they will need to keep driving up prices to maintain their profit levels ... it's just not sustainable long term no matter how hard they try or how much govt. props them up.

You idiot, renewable energy prices are driving prices up. It costs more for the electricity companies to produce electricity that way. The fact they are also paying many people above market prices for putting electricity into the grid is also putting up prices. Those of us without the means to afford solar arrays are in fact subsidising those who can by paying higher prices and paying for their above market rate rebates.

Complete nonsense. Renewables are the cheaper alternative, the fact is the power suppliers havent changed their business model and want the consumers to pay for it, they should have been investing in a small scale distribution network 20 years ago but were happy to reap the profits back then without investing in the future. Thats their fault, not the consumers. basically, at the moment they want to supply the consumer a product we dont need any more and want us to pay for it.

If you don't know that facts Ian best you stfu.
Electricity prices have gone up a great deal due to Green policies over the last 10 years. I suggest "complete nonsense" is a great big lie.

Electricity prices have gone up due to "poles and wires" investment by the electricity generators.

They’ve spent this money despite demand going down by 15%. This investment has added 100% to the cost of electricity supply. The carbon tax has added 9%. The renewable target is not even factored in to the price hikes. It’s believed to be less than a percent.

Demand has gone down by 15% because people are installing solar panels, which power their homes during sunlight hours.

Electricity will continue to rise as solar panels get cheaper and people convert to renewable energy - because it’s cheaper.

Coal has not risen in price, but electricity infrastructure continues to be laid down.

Solar power is free. The heartland of solar power is Western Sydney, not because it’s "renewable", but because it’s cheap.

The coal-fired power plants’ days are numbered, despite the subsidies provided by all governments.

This is only a political issue because Labor and the Libs have turned it into one. This is an economic issue. The technology is changing. The sun and wind are free.

The Libs favouring coal is no different to Labor propping up a car industry, dead on its knees.

LOL love it when people who have no idea swallow the ALP propaganda.
BTW heat from the Sun may be free, but Solar Power isn't. Cheesy

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John Smith Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 78311 Gender:	Re: PM Abbott a habitial liar. Reply #43 - Jul 3^rd, 2014 at 3:56pm Grendel wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2014 at 3:50pm: LOL love it when people who have no idea swallow the ALP propaganda. to be fair to Karnal, he never claimed to be an expert in swallowing, that's your department.
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Grendel

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Re: PM Abbott a habitial liar.
Reply #44 - Jul 3^rd, 2014 at 4:11pm

DaS Energy wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 2:57pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 2:34pm:

Grendel wrote on Jul 1^st, 2014 at 9:41pm:

John Smith wrote on Jul 1^st, 2014 at 9:37pm:

Grendel wrote on Jul 1^st, 2014 at 9:28pm:

Renewables aren't cheap and they have driven the price of electricty up... Cheesy

no, greedy company executives have driven the price of electricity up ...... and as they lose market share to renewables they will need to keep driving up prices to maintain their profit levels ... it's just not sustainable long term no matter how hard they try or how much govt. props them up.

You idiot, renewable energy prices are driving prices up. It costs more for the electricity companies to produce electricity that way. The fact they are also paying many people above market prices for putting electricity into the grid is also putting up prices. Those of us without the means to afford solar arrays are in fact subsidising those who can by paying higher prices and paying for their above market rate rebates.

The fact that renewable energy is so heavily subsidised is undeniable proof of how expensive it is. Take away ALL of the subsidies and no one but the rich could possibly afford it.

Renewable energy is inclusive of Solar generated electricity, Solar electricity is vastly cheaper than either Coal or Photovoltaic electricity.

Would you, be so kind as to explain how you are differentiating Solar power from Photovoltaic power?

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