Australian Politics Forum - Peoples loyalties should lie with their own people

fractalign

Senior Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 254
Gender: male

Peoples loyalties should lie with their own people
Jun 30^th, 2014 at 10:45pm

Watching an engaging debate on Q&A about the future of Geelong. Very interesting to hear what the people thought about their futures beyond manufacturing and who was responsible for allowing it to go. I thought to myself, isn't it great Australians from all walks of life from both sides of politics talking about their futures. Then some guy had to spoil it.

He picked his moment well, three quarters of the way through the program, he brought up the suicide of an asylum seeker.
Now no suicide is a good thing no matter where the victim is from but seriously why did this guy have to bring it up ?

Its not like the plight of asylum seekers is not the number one debate in the country already. I wonder how many other people around Geelong or indeed the nation had ended their lives at the same time as this young man. The debate went from an intelligent one back to the usual slanging match that Q&A descends into as soon as asylum seekers are brought up. Tony Jones himself is sick of the issue rearing it's ugly head as you could tell as he wrapped up the debate to allow others to raise issues.

We may live in a global community, but change happens at the local level. I am left wondering where the guy who raised this questions loyalties really lie ? There are hundreds of thousands of Australians who are boing persecuted as well, they may not be facing ethnic persecution but as the last two guys said they are certainly facing political persecution.

Perhaps people who are so passionate about the welfare of asylum seekers needs to step back and look at the welfare of Australians. Because the way this government is attacking our disadvantaged it may soon be Australians themselves who are fleeing political persecution. If that sounds like fantasy look at the exiting of our scientists to more prosperous shores thanks to this governments cutbacks to R&D.

What we should be having, is a debate on our internal refugees, those with Australian passports. You can argue that with a six month wait for Newstart, our nation's youth are the first in a new wave of political refugees.

Back to top

« Last Edit: Jun 30^th, 2014 at 10:54pm by fractalign »

IP Logged

John Smith

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 78311
Gender: male

Re: Peoples loyalties should lie with their own people
Reply #1 - Jun 30^th, 2014 at 11:14pm

fractalign wrote on Jun 30^th, 2014 at 10:45pm:

why did this guy have to bring it up ?

because, unlike you, he has some compassion for his fellow man, and doesn't ignore them because they aren't 'his own people'

what is 'his own people' anyway? Austrralia is made up of a mixture of over hundreds of nationalities .... do you get to pick and choose which are Australian depending on who you are opposing today? Or do we make it up as we go?

Back to top

Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

IP Logged

Datalife

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 2405
Gender: male

Re: Peoples loyalties should lie with their own people
Reply #2 - Jun 30^th, 2014 at 11:25pm

John Smith wrote on Jun 30^th, 2014 at 11:14pm:

fractalign wrote on Jun 30^th, 2014 at 10:45pm:

why did this guy have to bring it up ?

because, unlike you, he has some compassion for his fellow man, and doesn't ignore them because they aren't 'his own people'

what is 'his own people' anyway? Austrralia is made up of a mixture of over hundreds of nationalities .... do you get to pick and choose which are Australian depending on who you are opposing today? Or do we make it up as we go?

If you are unsophisticated and uneducated and living in a lower socio economic area the luvvies will be all over you helping, unless you are white, in which case you will be dismissed and insulted as bogans. The only cultural group that the luvvies will not defend ummmm with someone else's life.

Back to top

"If they’re out there in the high seas, what you would do is seek to turn them back through the agency of the Australian Navy".

Kevin Rudd on 2GB, July 12, 2007

IP Logged

gizmo_2655

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 16010
South West NSW
Gender: male

Re: Peoples loyalties should lie with their own people
Reply #3 - Jun 30^th, 2014 at 11:54pm

John Smith wrote on Jun 30^th, 2014 at 11:14pm:

fractalign wrote on Jun 30^th, 2014 at 10:45pm:

why did this guy have to bring it up ?

because, unlike you, he has some compassion for his fellow man, and doesn't ignore them because they aren't 'his own people'

But it wasn't the topic of conversation at the time.
When the same thing happens here (someone deliberately changing the topic of a thread) there are screams and demands to get back on topic.

Back to top

"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
Bobbythebat

IP Logged

Chard

Gold Member

Offline

Mein Führer! I can walk!

Posts: 1077
Alabama, USA
Gender: male

Re: Peoples loyalties should lie with their own people
Reply #4 - Jul 1^st, 2014 at 1:10am

Datalife wrote on Jun 30^th, 2014 at 11:25pm:

John Smith wrote on Jun 30^th, 2014 at 11:14pm:

fractalign wrote on Jun 30^th, 2014 at 10:45pm:

why did this guy have to bring it up ?

because, unlike you, he has some compassion for his fellow man, and doesn't ignore them because they aren't 'his own people'

what is 'his own people' anyway? Austrralia is made up of a mixture of over hundreds of nationalities .... do you get to pick and choose which are Australian depending on who you are opposing today? Or do we make it up as we go?

If you are unsophisticated and uneducated and living in a lower socio economic area the luvvies will be all over you helping, unless you are white, in which case you will be dismissed and insulted as bogans. The only cultural group that the luvvies will not defend ummmm with someone else's life.

That's because whites in general don't have the handicap of being a visable ethnic minority. Simply put, in the first world whites in general make more money in average than other ethnicities and they are bertter able to afford an education, which automatically grants them more economic opportunities as well as bettering their ability to influence society as a whole.

Back to top

Deterrence is the art of producing in the mind of the enemy... the FEAR to attack.

IP Logged

ian

Gold Member

Offline

OzPolitic

Posts: 9451

Re: Peoples loyalties should lie with their own people
Reply #5 - Jul 1^st, 2014 at 2:18am

Chard wrote on Jul 1^st, 2014 at 1:10am:

Datalife wrote on Jun 30^th, 2014 at 11:25pm:

John Smith wrote on Jun 30^th, 2014 at 11:14pm:

fractalign wrote on Jun 30^th, 2014 at 10:45pm:

why did this guy have to bring it up ?

because, unlike you, he has some compassion for his fellow man, and doesn't ignore them because they aren't 'his own people'

what is 'his own people' anyway? Austrralia is made up of a mixture of over hundreds of nationalities .... do you get to pick and choose which are Australian depending on who you are opposing today? Or do we make it up as we go?

If you are unsophisticated and uneducated and living in a lower socio economic area the luvvies will be all over you helping, unless you are white, in which case you will be dismissed and insulted as bogans. The only cultural group that the luvvies will not defend ummmm with someone else's life.

That's because whites in general don't have the handicap of being a visable ethnic minority. Simply put, in the first world whites in general make more money in average than other ethnicities and they are bertter able to afford an education, which automatically grants them more economic opportunities as well as bettering their ability to influence society as a whole.

Handicap? Being a minority in australia is a guaranteed ticket to a well paid government job and countless other opportunites not afforded to white australians. Thats also BS about whites in this country being more able to afford an education, aboriginals have a guaranteed quota (never filled) at higher institutions with fully funded scholarships.

Back to top

IP Logged

Taipan

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 1091
SouthWest Sydney
Gender: male

Re: Peoples loyalties should lie with their own people
Reply #6 - Jul 1^st, 2014 at 2:52am

fractalign wrote on Jun 30^th, 2014 at 10:45pm:

Watching an engaging debate on Q&A about the future of Geelong. Very interesting to hear what the people thought about their futures beyond manufacturing and who was responsible for allowing it to go. I thought to myself, isn't it great Australians from all walks of life from both sides of politics talking about their futures. Then some guy had to spoil it.

He picked his moment well, three quarters of the way through the program, he brought up the suicide of an asylum seeker.
Now no suicide is a good thing no matter where the victim is from but seriously why did this guy have to bring it up ?

Its not like the plight of asylum seekers is not the number one debate in the country already. I wonder how many other people around Geelong or indeed the nation had ended their lives at the same time as this young man. The debate went from an intelligent one back to the usual slanging match that Q&A descends into as soon as asylum seekers are brought up. Tony Jones himself is sick of the issue rearing it's ugly head as you could tell as he wrapped up the debate to allow others to raise issues.

We may live in a global community, but change happens at the local level. I am left wondering where the guy who raised this questions loyalties really lie ? There are hundreds of thousands of Australians who are boing persecuted as well, they may not be facing ethnic persecution but as the last two guys said they are certainly facing political persecution.

Perhaps people who are so passionate about the welfare of asylum seekers needs to step back and look at the welfare of Australians. Because the way this government is attacking our disadvantaged it may soon be Australians themselves who are fleeing political persecution. If that sounds like fantasy look at the exiting of our scientists to more prosperous shores thanks to this governments cutbacks to R&D.

What we should be having, is a debate on our internal refugees, those with Australian passports. You can argue that with a six month wait for Newstart, our nation's youth are the first in a new wave of political refugees.

Like Hell! Politicians can expect the worst from the Australian people. If they wanna persecute us they can expect to be dodging bullets as part of their job.

Back to top

IP Logged

Chard

Gold Member

Offline

Mein Führer! I can walk!

Posts: 1077
Alabama, USA
Gender: male

Re: Peoples loyalties should lie with their own people
Reply #7 - Jul 1^st, 2014 at 3:38am

ian wrote on Jul 1^st, 2014 at 2:18am:

Handicap? Being a minority in australia is a guaranteed ticket to a well paid government job and countless other opportunites not afforded to white australians.

You're missing the point. Ask yourself why it is that your government needs to have such programs to aid minorities in the first place? Because otherwise those minorities would have even less opportunity to advance themselves.

ian wrote on Jul 1^st, 2014 at 2:18am:

Thats also BS about whites in this country being more able to afford an education, aboriginals have a guaranteed quota (never filled) at higher institutions with fully funded scholarships.

Which is why the per capita breakdown of university level degrees is over six times higher times higher for whites in Australia than it is for non-whites? That's a greater educational divide than we have in the United States, by the way. For f*ck's sake, non-white college graduates make up less than 20% of the total number of graduates in your country. So do not try to tell me that whites are somehow unprivileged in your country. Whites are statistically verified as having more opportunities for education, employment, on top of having higher average salaries than their non-white counterparts.

So why is it your government (and my own) have programs to assist racial minorities? Because the cards are already stacked against them enough that the only way for them to remain economically and politically enfranchised that they need the help.

Back to top

Deterrence is the art of producing in the mind of the enemy... the FEAR to attack.

IP Logged

Kytro

Gold Member

Offline

Blasphemy: a victimless
crime

Posts: 3409
Adelaide
Gender: male

Re: Peoples loyalties should lie with their own people
Reply #8 - Jul 1^st, 2014 at 8:58am

It depends on if you are talking emotionally or intellectually.

Emotionally it is close friends, family, people I know well, people I agree with, people who might affect me, then everyone else.

Intellectually it is everyone, but work should begin in places where it is most likely to have a significant difference.

Back to top

IP Logged

fractalign

Senior Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 254
Gender: male

Re: Peoples loyalties should lie with their own people
Reply #9 - Jul 1^st, 2014 at 1:12pm

John Smith wrote on Jun 30^th, 2014 at 11:14pm:

fractalign wrote on Jun 30^th, 2014 at 10:45pm:

why did this guy have to bring it up ?

because, unlike you, he has some compassion for his fellow man, and doesn't ignore them because they aren't 'his own people'

what is 'his own people' anyway? Austrralia is made up of a mixture of over hundreds of nationalities .... do you get to pick and choose which are Australian depending on who you are opposing today? Or do we make it up as we go?

What I meant be his own people are his fellow Australians, who as you pointed out are made up of many different races and nationalities. He had sat through a debate about how his people this time a reference to the people of Geelong were being screwed over by a heartless government. Rather than contributing to the debate he decides to bring up the treatment of asylum seekers.

I think with the most marginalised in our society are increasingly Australians themselves. People who are so outspoken about the inhumane treatment of asylum seekers should realise that its not only asylum seekers who are being treated inhumanely by this government.

Back to top

IP Logged

John Smith

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 78311
Gender: male

Re: Peoples loyalties should lie with their own people
Reply #10 - Jul 1^st, 2014 at 2:15pm

gizmo_2655 wrote on Jun 30^th, 2014 at 11:54pm:

John Smith wrote on Jun 30^th, 2014 at 11:14pm:

fractalign wrote on Jun 30^th, 2014 at 10:45pm:

why did this guy have to bring it up ?

because, unlike you, he has some compassion for his fellow man, and doesn't ignore them because they aren't 'his own people'

But it wasn't the topic of conversation at the time.
When the same thing happens here (someone deliberately changing the topic of a thread) there are screams and demands to get back on topic.

Q & A often only allows a few questions per topic and before moving onto a new topic, its nothing new nor does it only happen when the topic changed to is asylum seekers ... it is a one hour show and they try to cover as wide a range of topics as possible.

Back to top

Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

IP Logged

Kat

Gold Member

Offline

Socialism IS the answer.

Posts: 17709
Everywhere and no-where
Gender: female

Re: Peoples loyalties should lie with their own people
Reply #11 - Jul 1^st, 2014 at 2:21pm

John Smith wrote on Jun 30^th, 2014 at 11:14pm:

fractalign wrote on Jun 30^th, 2014 at 10:45pm:

why did this guy have to bring it up ?

because, unlike you, he has some compassion for his fellow man, and doesn't ignore them because they aren't 'his own people'

what is 'his own people' anyway? Austrralia is made up of a mixture of over hundreds of nationalities .... do you get to pick and choose which are Australian depending on who you are opposing today? Or do we make it up as we go?

Well, it got a very favourable reaction from the audience, and the viewers.

He deserves to be applauded for his stand, and for making it public.

I applaud him for doing so, and would do so again.

Back to top

IP Logged

Kat

Gold Member

Offline

Socialism IS the answer.

Posts: 17709
Everywhere and no-where
Gender: female

Re: Peoples loyalties should lie with their own people
Reply #12 - Jul 1^st, 2014 at 2:26pm

gizmo_2655 wrote on Jun 30^th, 2014 at 11:54pm:

John Smith wrote on Jun 30^th, 2014 at 11:14pm:

fractalign wrote on Jun 30^th, 2014 at 10:45pm:

why did this guy have to bring it up ?

because, unlike you, he has some compassion for his fellow man, and doesn't ignore them because they aren't 'his own people'

But it wasn't the topic of conversation at the time.
When the same thing happens here (someone deliberately changing the topic of a thread) there are screams and demands to get back on topic.

Tony threw to him and allowed him to ask the question.

It's not as if he screamed it out while someone else
was speaking.

So yes, it WAS the topic.

Back to top

IP Logged

Chard Gold Member Offline Mein Führer! I can walk! Posts: 1077 Alabama, USA Gender:	Re: Peoples loyalties should lie with their own people Reply #13 - Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 10:12am I love this board... You cnts are so busy with your personal vendettas you honestly cannot come to an understanding with one another. Seriously, how hard is it for you dumb motherfckers to get that Racism = Bad? Goddamn, you're even dumber than people from Mississippi.
Back to top	Deterrence is the art of producing in the mind of the enemy... the FEAR to attack. IP Logged

Sprintcyclist

Gold Member

Offline

OzPolitic

Posts: 42418
Gender: male

Re: Peoples loyalties should lie with their own people
Reply #14 - Jul 2^nd, 2014 at 10:19am

Chard - Racism = natural.

Whites are better. That's why we have 6* the representation in UNIs.

'Supporting' minorities is a total failure. Those 'supported' ethnic groups drag the better society down and never progress.

Look at all the aid gone into africa for decades.
Likewise the abbos in Australia

Back to top

Modern Classic Right Wing

IP Logged