Australian Politics Forum - Unexpected Pay Rise Coming your Way

aquascoot

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Re: Unexpected Pay Rise Coming your Way
Reply #45 - Jun 25^th, 2014 at 7:08am

Winston Smith wrote on Jun 25^th, 2014 at 2:25am:

Grappler Racist Filth wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2014 at 10:53am:

aquascoot wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2014 at 10:14am:

Tony wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2014 at 10:03am:

Yup, resentful and I just wonder why?

Resentful because I have a good sense of whats fair and the pensioners dont Wink

.

Do you think the pensioners are hard done by and the working poor and young students facing massive HECS are on easy street.

I would like to see pensions cut and more money go to the younger ones.

yes, I am resentful that the selfish are pandered to by successive governments, and only because they are a massive self interested voting block.

Hope that explains why for you.
Sheesh

What does the plight of the working poor and the students with HECS set for a better life than we ever had, have to do with the plight of pensioners?

You can't simply make some arbitrary line there and say one group are better off etc.

How about we juggle it around -

a) Do you think the pensioners working poor are hard done by and the working poor pensioners and young students facing massive HECS are on easy street.

b) Do you think the pensioners young students facing massive HECS are hard done by and the working poor and young students facing massive HECS pensioners are on easy street.

WTF is wrong with you? Most of those pensioners have worked damned hard to have very little by today's standards.... I, for one, sacrificed my own home (something I never had outside of that) to guarantee my children's future, and manfully worked 18 hours a day so every idiotic idea of 'government' and 'management' could ruin it all.

I EARNED my pension ten times over - when you can say the same - provide details, or are you just another Joe Hockey with the priv school and sweet ride fully fed education, and somehow that means you 'worked' harder and smarter?

Or are you just another rip-off merchant like Joe and Co who think they are better and more suited to run the show as some sort of right?

I know it's hard to get your head around, but posters like aquascoot aren't interested in rational debate. They don't even begin to understand the real issues, they are not even paid shills; just attention trolls hijacking discussion forums for an attention fix. A psychologist would have a field day. Wink

Winston!!
I pride myself on being both rational and compassionate when it comes to the pensioners.

A lot of blokes, when their horses get old and can no longer work, they send them to the doggers for $400 a hit. I don't.
they have worked hard and they get to live out their life in a paddock , as befits their hard work.

BUT, what I don't do is the following....

when the vet comes out with the new vaccines, these go to the young horses.
when I buy supplements , these go to the young horses.
when I have to put the blankets on them in winter,(well my manager does) , these go to the young horses.
when we go on a trip, I take the young horses.

the old horses simply have to get used to that.
If an old horse came down and got into the best feed, helped itself to my new gear, gave itself expensive vaccines and jumped on the float declaring itself a "grey nomad" , I would have to take action, up to and including an injection of lethobarb.

there is a natural order to things and the young must be looked after before the old.

I'll ask you a question.

2 critically injured patients are in casualty after a bad road accident.
One is 10 and one is 75.
there is only one doctor.
Who does he attend first.

answer that and you can see why pensioners simply have got ahead of themselves in assigning themselves as priority 1. they aren't.

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Tony

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Re: Unexpected Pay Rise Coming your Way
Reply #46 - Jun 25^th, 2014 at 7:44am

It is not the pensioners that are the problem. The other groups should also get more money.

Not only that, the pensioners some do some work, some do volunteer work, all pay tax—GST etc. The money pensioners get goes straight into the economy.

NewStart needs to be increased. If I have one fault with Swan it is he should have boosted NewStart.

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Swagman

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Re: Unexpected Pay Rise Coming your Way
Reply #47 - Jun 25^th, 2014 at 9:29am

Tony wrote on Jun 24^th, 2014 at 11:04pm:

Swagman wrote on Jun 24^th, 2014 at 11:25am:

Tony wrote on Jun 24^th, 2014 at 11:08am:

Pretty big, isn’t it?

The super rort is set to zoom exponentially, far more than pensions even with Boomers retiring.

That's not super? It's tax-payer funds going to non-taxpayers.

Yeah, it is super. The 15% tax paid on super contributions rather than the applicable income tax rate. The very high income earners can salary sacrifice—more tax saved! FBT is full of rorts, negative gearing is a rort and on it goes.

Notice this Budget didn’t do anything to fix the rorts? Funny sort of Budget Emergency that doesn’t need to stop huge sums of tax expenditures going to people who don’t need it.

The Budget is class warfare by the rich against the poor. It will result in a deep recession that the Libs will make worse by continuing to hit the poor—then they will panic and make things even worse.

Sorry the figure provided ($145B) is the gross welfare expense and it has nothing to do with super.

Your $150B figure is not even listed as an expense.

The 15% tax paid on super contributions is an incentive to save for individuals' self funded retirement.

Don't forget this money is the individuals' hard earned pay (not a handout) and they are putting it away and can't get their hands on it until their retirement hence the tax 'discount'

Self funded retirees will save the Tax-payer squillions. It is not a rort.

Tony wrote on Jun 24^th, 2014 at 11:04pm:

The Budget is class warfare by the rich against the poor. It will result in a deep recession that the Libs will make worse by continuing to hit the poor

Propaganda.

The contribution of the 'rich' has been steadilly increasing against the increasing zero contribution of the so-called 'poor'.

It won't be the poor that drags the economy out of recession.

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ian

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Re: Unexpected Pay Rise Coming your Way
Reply #48 - Jun 25^th, 2014 at 10:37am

Tony wrote on Jun 25^th, 2014 at 12:28am:

It REALLY pays off for those on $250K pa or more.

It is a rort.

Aqua is wrong too—about ¾ of tax expenditures would be recovered if the rorts were stopped.

Then no more Budget Emergency, NewStart can be increased etc. Best of all—no change to private sector spending as the rich have no shortage of discretionary income.

Pity then the shambles reversed the first moves by Labor to tighten FBT rules and start removing the tax expenditures.

Our tax rates are not high among OECD nations as Bam stated. Just more Howard/Costello nuggets of brown stuff in the policy slippers. Abbott’s PPL is another rort for the wealthy.

Im not against removing super tax breaks for the wealthy but the idea that anyone salary sacrificing is rorting is wrong, it is providing for their future so they don t become burdens on the taxpayer like many are now who refused to provide for their own future. This is what is creating our welfare dependency, precisely this attitude of welfare entitlement. And the PPL is an excellent idea, only it should be capped and means tested. Women should be looking after thier own children and not dumping them in childcare centres, I would prefer a PPL scheme to subsidised childcare, better long term benefits for society as a whole. What is happening in this country is that exactly the wrong people are being subsidised to breed, those with low motivation, low IQs and entrenched welfare dependent cultural attitudes. The current welfare system as it is structured now is effectively dumbing down the australian population progressively.

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ian Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 9451	Re: Unexpected Pay Rise Coming your Way Reply #49 - Jun 25^th, 2014 at 10:42am Winston Smith wrote on Jun 25^th, 2014 at 2:29am: [ Is that the 3rd instance now? I agree with Aquascoots statements there, we should be prioritising assistance towards the young, in particular mental health. Aged pensioners are not priority number 1 in my book either.
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aquascoot

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Re: Unexpected Pay Rise Coming your Way
Reply #50 - Jun 25^th, 2014 at 12:36pm

Swagman wrote on Jun 25^th, 2014 at 9:29am:

Tony wrote on Jun 24^th, 2014 at 11:04pm:

Swagman wrote on Jun 24^th, 2014 at 11:25am:

Tony wrote on Jun 24^th, 2014 at 11:08am:

Pretty big, isn’t it?

The super rort is set to zoom exponentially, far more than pensions even with Boomers retiring.

That's not super? It's tax-payer funds going to non-taxpayers.

Yeah, it is super. The 15% tax paid on super contributions rather than the applicable income tax rate. The very high income earners can salary sacrifice—more tax saved! FBT is full of rorts, negative gearing is a rort and on it goes.

Notice this Budget didn’t do anything to fix the rorts? Funny sort of Budget Emergency that doesn’t need to stop huge sums of tax expenditures going to people who don’t need it.

The Budget is class warfare by the rich against the poor. It will result in a deep recession that the Libs will make worse by continuing to hit the poor—then they will panic and make things even worse.

Sorry the figure provided ($145B) is the gross welfare expense and it has nothing to do with super.

Your $150B figure is not even listed as an expense.

The 15% tax paid on super contributions is an incentive to save for individuals' self funded retirement.

Don't forget this money is the individuals' hard earned pay (not a handout) and they are putting it away and can't get their hands on it until their retirement hence the tax 'discount'

Self funded retirees will save the Tax-payer squillions. It is not a rort.

Tony wrote on Jun 24^th, 2014 at 11:04pm:

The Budget is class warfare by the rich against the poor. It will result in a deep recession that the Libs will make worse by continuing to hit the poor

Propaganda.

The contribution of the 'rich' has been steadilly increasing against the increasing zero contribution of the so-called 'poor'.

It won't be the poor that drags the economy out of recession.

quite true, the poor spend their money on trinkets from china. the rich spend it on growing their business and expanding their workforce.
giving money to the poor creates work for cheap clothing manufacturers in asia. it does nothing for OZ.

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Bam

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Re: Unexpected Pay Rise Coming your Way
Reply #51 - Jun 25^th, 2014 at 12:40pm

aquascoot wrote on Jun 25^th, 2014 at 12:36pm:

Quote:

It won't be the poor that drags the economy out of recession.

quite true, the poor spend their money on trinkets from china. the rich spend it on growing their business and expanding their workforce.
giving money to the poor creates work for cheap clothing manufacturers in asia. it does nothing for OZ.

Unfounded nonsense.

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You are not entitled to your opinion. You are only entitled to hold opinions that you can defend through sound, reasoned argument.

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Winston Smith

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Re: Unexpected Pay Rise Coming your Way
Reply #52 - Jun 26^th, 2014 at 4:05am

aquascoot wrote on Jun 25^th, 2014 at 7:08am:

Winston Smith wrote on Jun 25^th, 2014 at 2:25am:

Grappler Racist Filth wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2014 at 10:53am:

aquascoot wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2014 at 10:14am:

Tony wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2014 at 10:03am:

Yup, resentful and I just wonder why?

Resentful because I have a good sense of whats fair and the pensioners dont Wink

.

Do you think the pensioners are hard done by and the working poor and young students facing massive HECS are on easy street.

I would like to see pensions cut and more money go to the younger ones.

yes, I am resentful that the selfish are pandered to by successive governments, and only because they are a massive self interested voting block.

Hope that explains why for you.
Sheesh

What does the plight of the working poor and the students with HECS set for a better life than we ever had, have to do with the plight of pensioners?

You can't simply make some arbitrary line there and say one group are better off etc.

How about we juggle it around -

a) Do you think the pensioners working poor are hard done by and the working poor pensioners and young students facing massive HECS are on easy street.

b) Do you think the pensioners young students facing massive HECS are hard done by and the working poor and young students facing massive HECS pensioners are on easy street.

WTF is wrong with you? Most of those pensioners have worked damned hard to have very little by today's standards.... I, for one, sacrificed my own home (something I never had outside of that) to guarantee my children's future, and manfully worked 18 hours a day so every idiotic idea of 'government' and 'management' could ruin it all.

I EARNED my pension ten times over - when you can say the same - provide details, or are you just another Joe Hockey with the priv school and sweet ride fully fed education, and somehow that means you 'worked' harder and smarter?

Or are you just another rip-off merchant like Joe and Co who think they are better and more suited to run the show as some sort of right?

I know it's hard to get your head around, but posters like aquascoot aren't interested in rational debate. They don't even begin to understand the real issues, they are not even paid shills; just attention trolls hijacking discussion forums for an attention fix. A psychologist would have a field day. Wink

Winston!!
I pride myself on being both rational and compassionate when it comes to the pensioners.

A lot of blokes, when their horses get old and can no longer work, they send them to the doggers for $400 a hit. I don't.
they have worked hard and they get to live out their life in a paddock , as befits their hard work.

BUT, what I don't do is the following....

when the vet comes out with the new vaccines, these go to the young horses.
when I buy supplements , these go to the young horses.
when I have to put the blankets on them in winter,(well my manager does) , these go to the young horses.
when we go on a trip, I take the young horses.

the old horses simply have to get used to that.
If an old horse came down and got into the best feed, helped itself to my new gear, gave itself expensive vaccines and jumped on the float declaring itself a "grey nomad" , I would have to take action, up to and including an injection of lethobarb.

there is a natural order to things and the young must be looked after before the old.

I'll ask you a question.

2 critically injured patients are in casualty after a bad road accident.
One is 10 and one is 75.
there is only one doctor.
Who does he attend first.

answer that and you can see why pensioners simply have got ahead of themselves in assigning themselves as priority 1. they aren't.

Your analogies bear no relation on how funds should be allocated in the national budget.

You are clearly insane.

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Winston Smith

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Re: Unexpected Pay Rise Coming your Way
Reply #53 - Jun 26^th, 2014 at 4:14am

ian wrote on Jun 25^th, 2014 at 10:42am:

Winston Smith wrote on Jun 25^th, 2014 at 2:29am:

[ Is that the 3rd instance now? Roll Eyes

I agree with Aquascoots statements there, we should be prioritising assistance towards the young, in particular mental health. Aged pensioners are not priority number 1 in my book either.

I worked you out a long time ago ian and from then on realised the futility of any sort of genuine engagement with you. You always flee into semantics lawyering or circular arguements, when invited to rationalise your position. Best you stick to +1'ing those people like aquascoot, who aren't afraid to make fools of themselves.

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Tony

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Re: Unexpected Pay Rise Coming your Way
Reply #54 - Jun 26^th, 2014 at 4:41am

The 15% tax on salary paid into super to encourage saving is fine to an extent. Those on high incomes use it to reduce the tax they should pay.

A number then arrange things so that they retire with a low income but high assets and get the pension as well.

THOSE are the selfish ones!

Not only that, pensioners are largely past working and for those without super the pension is all they can get. The working poor have the chance to better their lot in life!

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aquascoot

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Re: Unexpected Pay Rise Coming your Way
Reply #55 - Jun 26^th, 2014 at 7:05am

Winston Smith wrote on Jun 26^th, 2014 at 4:05am:

aquascoot wrote on Jun 25^th, 2014 at 7:08am:

Winston Smith wrote on Jun 25^th, 2014 at 2:25am:

Grappler Racist Filth wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2014 at 10:53am:

aquascoot wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2014 at 10:14am:

Tony wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2014 at 10:03am:

Yup, resentful and I just wonder why?

Resentful because I have a good sense of whats fair and the pensioners dont Wink

.

Do you think the pensioners are hard done by and the working poor and young students facing massive HECS are on easy street.

I would like to see pensions cut and more money go to the younger ones.

yes, I am resentful that the selfish are pandered to by successive governments, and only because they are a massive self interested voting block.

Hope that explains why for you.
Sheesh

What does the plight of the working poor and the students with HECS set for a better life than we ever had, have to do with the plight of pensioners?

You can't simply make some arbitrary line there and say one group are better off etc.

How about we juggle it around -

a) Do you think the pensioners working poor are hard done by and the working poor pensioners and young students facing massive HECS are on easy street.

b) Do you think the pensioners young students facing massive HECS are hard done by and the working poor and young students facing massive HECS pensioners are on easy street.

WTF is wrong with you? Most of those pensioners have worked damned hard to have very little by today's standards.... I, for one, sacrificed my own home (something I never had outside of that) to guarantee my children's future, and manfully worked 18 hours a day so every idiotic idea of 'government' and 'management' could ruin it all.

I EARNED my pension ten times over - when you can say the same - provide details, or are you just another Joe Hockey with the priv school and sweet ride fully fed education, and somehow that means you 'worked' harder and smarter?

Or are you just another rip-off merchant like Joe and Co who think they are better and more suited to run the show as some sort of right?

I know it's hard to get your head around, but posters like aquascoot aren't interested in rational debate. They don't even begin to understand the real issues, they are not even paid shills; just attention trolls hijacking discussion forums for an attention fix. A psychologist would have a field day. Wink

Winston!!
I pride myself on being both rational and compassionate when it comes to the pensioners.

A lot of blokes, when their horses get old and can no longer work, they send them to the doggers for $400 a hit. I don't.
they have worked hard and they get to live out their life in a paddock , as befits their hard work.

BUT, what I don't do is the following....

when the vet comes out with the new vaccines, these go to the young horses.
when I buy supplements , these go to the young horses.
when I have to put the blankets on them in winter,(well my manager does) , these go to the young horses.
when we go on a trip, I take the young horses.

the old horses simply have to get used to that.
If an old horse came down and got into the best feed, helped itself to my new gear, gave itself expensive vaccines and jumped on the float declaring itself a "grey nomad" , I would have to take action, up to and including an injection of lethobarb.

there is a natural order to things and the young must be looked after before the old.

I'll ask you a question.

2 critically injured patients are in casualty after a bad road accident.
One is 10 and one is 75.
there is only one doctor.
Who does he attend first.

answer that and you can see why pensioners simply have got ahead of themselves in assigning themselves as priority 1. they aren't.

Your analogies bear no relation on how funds should be allocated in the national budget.

You are clearly insane.

Sooooo budgets aren't about priorities.
If we have 20 billion to spend and we have options in

education.
infrastructure
health
defence
welfare.

Our decisions have nothing to do with our priorities and I am clearly insane for suggesting governments spend according to such priorities.
interesting take Winston
F minus Wink

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aquascoot

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Re: Unexpected Pay Rise Coming your Way
Reply #56 - Jun 26^th, 2014 at 7:06am

Winston Smith wrote on Jun 26^th, 2014 at 4:14am:

ian wrote on Jun 25^th, 2014 at 10:42am:

Winston Smith wrote on Jun 25^th, 2014 at 2:29am:

[ Is that the 3rd instance now? Roll Eyes

I agree with Aquascoots statements there, we should be prioritising assistance towards the young, in particular mental health. Aged pensioners are not priority number 1 in my book either.

I worked you out a long time ago ian and from then on realised the futility of any sort of genuine engagement with you. You always flee into semantics lawyering or circular arguements, when invited to rationalise your position. Best you stick to +1'ing those people like aquascoot, who aren't afraid to make fools of themselves.

I think if ian is suggesting more spending on mental health, this may assist you winston Wink

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Winston Smith

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Re: Unexpected Pay Rise Coming your Way
Reply #57 - Jun 26^th, 2014 at 7:12am

aquascoot wrote on Jun 26^th, 2014 at 7:05am:

Winston Smith wrote on Jun 26^th, 2014 at 4:05am:

aquascoot wrote on Jun 25^th, 2014 at 7:08am:

Winston Smith wrote on Jun 25^th, 2014 at 2:25am:

Grappler Racist Filth wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2014 at 10:53am:

aquascoot wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2014 at 10:14am:

Tony wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2014 at 10:03am:

Yup, resentful and I just wonder why?

Resentful because I have a good sense of whats fair and the pensioners dont Wink

.

Do you think the pensioners are hard done by and the working poor and young students facing massive HECS are on easy street.

I would like to see pensions cut and more money go to the younger ones.

yes, I am resentful that the selfish are pandered to by successive governments, and only because they are a massive self interested voting block.

Hope that explains why for you.
Sheesh

What does the plight of the working poor and the students with HECS set for a better life than we ever had, have to do with the plight of pensioners?

You can't simply make some arbitrary line there and say one group are better off etc.

How about we juggle it around -

a) Do you think the pensioners working poor are hard done by and the working poor pensioners and young students facing massive HECS are on easy street.

b) Do you think the pensioners young students facing massive HECS are hard done by and the working poor and young students facing massive HECS pensioners are on easy street.

WTF is wrong with you? Most of those pensioners have worked damned hard to have very little by today's standards.... I, for one, sacrificed my own home (something I never had outside of that) to guarantee my children's future, and manfully worked 18 hours a day so every idiotic idea of 'government' and 'management' could ruin it all.

I EARNED my pension ten times over - when you can say the same - provide details, or are you just another Joe Hockey with the priv school and sweet ride fully fed education, and somehow that means you 'worked' harder and smarter?

Or are you just another rip-off merchant like Joe and Co who think they are better and more suited to run the show as some sort of right?

I know it's hard to get your head around, but posters like aquascoot aren't interested in rational debate. They don't even begin to understand the real issues, they are not even paid shills; just attention trolls hijacking discussion forums for an attention fix. A psychologist would have a field day. Wink

Winston!!
I pride myself on being both rational and compassionate when it comes to the pensioners.

A lot of blokes, when their horses get old and can no longer work, they send them to the doggers for $400 a hit. I don't.
they have worked hard and they get to live out their life in a paddock , as befits their hard work.

BUT, what I don't do is the following....

when the vet comes out with the new vaccines, these go to the young horses.
when I buy supplements , these go to the young horses.
when I have to put the blankets on them in winter,(well my manager does) , these go to the young horses.
when we go on a trip, I take the young horses.

the old horses simply have to get used to that.
If an old horse came down and got into the best feed, helped itself to my new gear, gave itself expensive vaccines and jumped on the float declaring itself a "grey nomad" , I would have to take action, up to and including an injection of lethobarb.

there is a natural order to things and the young must be looked after before the old.

I'll ask you a question.

2 critically injured patients are in casualty after a bad road accident.
One is 10 and one is 75.
there is only one doctor.
Who does he attend first.

answer that and you can see why pensioners simply have got ahead of themselves in assigning themselves as priority 1. they aren't.

Your analogies bear no relation on how funds should be allocated in the national budget.

You are clearly insane.

Sooooo budgets aren't about priorities.
If we have 20 billion to spend and we have options in

education.
infrastructure
health
defence
welfare.

Our decisions have nothing to do with our priorities and I am clearly insane for suggesting governments spend according to such priorities.
interesting take Winston
F minus Wink

This is what I'm talking about, there is no point in attempting to reason with you. Your entire posting history is a litany of fallacious assertions getting shot down in flames, only to be replaced by fresh fallacious assertions in a circular pattern ad infinitum. In order to avoid providing reasoned consideration of the topics at hand, you prefer to heap fallacious deflection upon fallacious deflection. As I've stated, your contribution is purely based on attention farming. You are a non-intellect on this forum and possibly a criminally insane one.

You get an A+ for that aquascoot. Wink

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ian

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Re: Unexpected Pay Rise Coming your Way
Reply #58 - Jun 26^th, 2014 at 2:31pm

Winston Smith wrote on Jun 26^th, 2014 at 4:14am:

ian wrote on Jun 25^th, 2014 at 10:42am:

Winston Smith wrote on Jun 25^th, 2014 at 2:29am:

[ Is that the 3rd instance now? Roll Eyes

I agree with Aquascoots statements there, we should be prioritising assistance towards the young, in particular mental health. Aged pensioners are not priority number 1 in my book either.

I worked you out a long time ago ian and from then on realised the futility of any sort of genuine engagement with you. You always flee into semantics lawyering or circular arguements, when invited to rationalise your position. Best you stick to +1'ing those people like aquascoot, who aren't afraid to make fools of themselves.

Lol, how is this semantics? My position is quite clear, i cant help it if my arguements are intellectually above your head.

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greggerypeccary

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Re: Unexpected Pay Rise Coming your Way
Reply #59 - Jun 26^th, 2014 at 2:49pm

Bam wrote on Jun 25^th, 2014 at 12:40pm:

aquascoot wrote on Jun 25^th, 2014 at 12:36pm:

Quote:

It won't be the poor that drags the economy out of recession.

quite true, the poor spend their money on trinkets from china. the rich spend it on growing their business and expanding their workforce.
giving money to the poor creates work for cheap clothing manufacturers in asia. it does nothing for OZ.

Unfounded nonsense.

As usual.

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