Australian Politics Forum - Pensioners To Consider Protest Rally

Grappler Racist Filth

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Re: Pensioners To Consider Protest Rally
Reply #60 - Jun 8^th, 2014 at 2:04pm

aquascoot wrote on Jun 8^th, 2014 at 9:55am:

jobs are created in the real economy (real jobs that is) by business.

governments role is that of an umpire in a football match . to keep business honest and apply fair rules.

government should never touch the ball whilst it is in play.
government should never make a tackle.

you lefties have completely f^^ked up ideas on what government can, could and should do.

Yet 'governments' love to crow about how their policies 'created' jobs, but never how their policies Destroyed jobs....

I'd say the whole game needs a good look at - there's got to be an investigation... someone has to take responsibility for this!

It remains, however, the responsibility of government to adequately care for the well-being and social security of those afflicted by piss poor management in 'business'.

Or maybe the workers need to take over the businesses and run them properly. Now there's a thought... must be some historical antecedents there.. sounds like a real possibility though the way those idiots in management are carrying on like used care salesmen with room temperature IQs in Celsius...

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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Grappler Racist Filth Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 90889 Proud Old White Australian Man Gender:	Re: Pensioners To Consider Protest Rally Reply #61 - Jun 8^th, 2014 at 2:05pm **page kicker..
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Rubin

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Re: Pensioners To Consider Protest Rally
Reply #62 - Jun 8^th, 2014 at 3:05pm

Grappler Racist Filth wrote on Jun 8^th, 2014 at 2:04pm:

aquascoot wrote on Jun 8^th, 2014 at 9:55am:

jobs are created in the real economy (real jobs that is) by business.

governments role is that of an umpire in a football match . to keep business honest and apply fair rules.

government should never touch the ball whilst it is in play.
government should never make a tackle.

you lefties have completely f^^ked up ideas on what government can, could and should do.

Yet 'governments' love to crow about how their policies 'created' jobs, but never how their policies Destroyed jobs....

I'd say the whole game needs a good look at - there's got to be an investigation... someone has to take responsibility for this!

It remains, however, the responsibility of government to adequately care for the well-being and social security of those afflicted by piss poor management in 'business'.

Or maybe the workers need to take over the businesses and run them properly. Now there's a thought... must be some historical antecedents there.. sounds like a real possibility though the way those idiots in management are carrying on like used care salesmen with room temperature IQs in Celsius...

with the automation and gobalisation they have to play bigger role 1960s style governments dont cut anymore bussiness are looking to automate and move production,admin over seas. governments have a resposibilty to protect the lives, liberty and property of its people if those people cant earn a living how are they going to do it.
http://www.rethinkrobotics.com/products/baxter/ the new work force perfect for bussiness

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Bam

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Re: Pensioners To Consider Protest Rally
Reply #63 - Jun 8^th, 2014 at 10:10pm

aquascoot wrote on Jun 8^th, 2014 at 6:24am:

Emma wrote on Jun 8^th, 2014 at 1:26am:

indeed indeed..

Those words ..

[b]Mutual obligation includes an obligation by the government to create jobs, not destroy them.
Mutual obligation includes not allowing 457 visas to be rorted to deny jobs to unemployed Australians.
Mutual obligation includes identifying and removing barriers of entry into the workforce.
Mutual obligation includes not allowing discrimination against the unemployed when hiring.
Mutual obligation includes providing real assistance to allow people to get into work.

The government has failed its obligations on all these counts..

Those words BELONG to BAM

Well said Bam.
And it is undeniable.

What a load of absolute Bullsh.t,

It is NOT the responsibility of government to find you a job.

I never said that, which makes your argument a fallacious straw man argument.

It IS the responsibility of the government to create jobs: by direct investment in the public service, by creating the economic conditions so that the private sector can create jobs, investing in projects, or reforming the labour laws as needed.

It is not the role of government to destroy jobs and then blame the victims, either directly or fostering unfounded hatred for those unfortunate to be left without a chair in the great game of musical chairs that is the job market.

Quote:

You find one in the economy yourself by interacting with fellow citizens who want to buy your labour,

Here is where you fail. You should be loudly berating anyone that casts unfounded aspersions on the unemployed, to take away the incentive that employers have to hire the unemployed rather than a job swapper. Well-heeled conservatives never understand what life is like at the fringes of the job market, where people chase the merest scraps of work so they can pay the most basic of bills.

Yet the government is destroying jobs all over the place, with a list of companies laying off staff that is too long to mention in full, but includes Qantas, Australia Post, and the entire car manufacturing industry.

Quote:

What next,

Demanding that the government find you a date, a partner or a lover.
You have got some seriously demented ideas

This point is also fallacious - the slippery slope fallacy.

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You are not entitled to your opinion. You are only entitled to hold opinions that you can defend through sound, reasoned argument.

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Emma Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 9853 OZ Gender:	Re: Pensioners To Consider Protest Rally Reply #64 - Jun 8^th, 2014 at 10:21pm Agree
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Ex Dame Pansi

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Re: Pensioners To Consider Protest Rally
Reply #65 - Jun 9^th, 2014 at 6:45am

It is the responsibility of the government to guarantee employment. If they fail to do this, they will be seen as incompetent and will be voted out. People won't listen to their excuses, even if they are valid.

It is certainly the responsibility of the government to not jeopardise jobs by inviting foreign workers to come in and undercut Australian workers.

When do we start blaming the government? When unemployment is 25% (at present) 50% or 70%, surely they must take some responsibility for the fact that there are 200,000 jobs available and 800,000 people seeking work. Abbott is doing himself no favours by putting the blame back on the unemployed, it looks as though he has no plans to improve the job situation so he punishes the unemployed.

Abbott can't fix the problem but he can certainly admit that there is a problem and treat the victims of unemployment with some dignity and respect.

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"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace." Hendrix
andrei said: Great isn't it? Seeing boatloads of what is nothing more than human garbage turn up.....

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Kat

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Re: Pensioners To Consider Protest Rally
Reply #66 - Jun 9^th, 2014 at 9:26am

Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Jun 9^th, 2014 at 6:45am:

It is the responsibility of the government to guarantee employment. If they fail to do this, they will be seen as incompetent and will be voted out. People won't listen to their excuses, even if they are valid.

It is certainly the responsibility of the government to not jeopardise jobs by inviting foreign workers to come in and undercut Australian workers.

When do we start blaming the government? When unemployment is 25% (at present) 50% or 70%, surely they must take some responsibility for the fact that there are 200,000 jobs available and 800,000 people seeking work. Abbott is doing himself no favours by putting the blame back on the unemployed, it looks as though he has no plans to improve the job situation so he punishes the unemployed.

Abbott can't fix the problem but he can certainly admit that there is a problem and treat the victims of unemployment with some dignity and respect.

Abbott?

You jest, surely?

Abbott despises the unemployed, and the feeling, quite justifiably, appears to be mutual.

He has a long and well-known history of deliberately hurting and punishing the unemployed, simply for being so.

We have never and will never see a single policy from him which will actually benefit the unemployed.

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Emma Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 9853 OZ Gender:	Re: Pensioners To Consider Protest Rally Reply #67 - Jun 10^th, 2014 at 12:04am yes.. the angle /slant / ethos of the Abbott government is clear... Kick the people that are already disadvantaged, and pay/promote/encourage those who would seek to benefit from this heinous state of affairs.
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Emma

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Re: Pensioners To Consider Protest Rally
Reply #68 - Jun 10^th, 2014 at 12:12am

Grappler Racist Filth wrote on Jun 8^th, 2014 at 2:04pm:

aquascoot wrote on Jun 8^th, 2014 at 9:55am:

jobs are created in the real economy (real jobs that is) by business.

governments role is that of an umpire in a football match . to keep business honest and apply fair rules.

government should never touch the ball whilst it is in play.
government should never make a tackle.

you lefties have completely f^^ked up ideas on what government can, could and should do.

Yet 'governments' love to crow about how their policies 'created' jobs, but never how their policies Destroyed jobs....

I'd say the whole game needs a good look at - there's got to be an investigation... someone has to take responsibility for this!

It remains, however, the responsibility of government to adequately care for the well-being and social security of those afflicted by piss poor management in 'business'.

Or maybe the workers need to take over the businesses and run them properly. Now there's a thought... must be some historical antecedents there.. sounds like a real possibility though the way those idiots in management are carrying on like used care salesmen with room temperature IQs in Celsius...

I find the prevailing view that Government should be run like a business the height of infamy and misinformation.

Governments are NOT a business, nor should they be expected to perform like a business.

Governments are elected TO CARE FOR ALL THE PEOPLE... not insist that evryone works to make profit, and those who don't for whatever reason... are deemed useless and an impost. fodder for social sanction . How sad.. what an indictment of our humanity.

I guess it depends on what you think a govt IS.

MY VIEW..

Government should never be run for the benefit of the rich... it can only be judged by the way it treats the most disadvantaged...

Abbott Government .. FAIL.

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Kat

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Re: Pensioners To Consider Protest Rally
Reply #69 - Jun 10^th, 2014 at 12:46am

Emma wrote on Jun 10^th, 2014 at 12:12am:

Grappler Racist Filth wrote on Jun 8^th, 2014 at 2:04pm:

aquascoot wrote on Jun 8^th, 2014 at 9:55am:

jobs are created in the real economy (real jobs that is) by business.

governments role is that of an umpire in a football match . to keep business honest and apply fair rules.

government should never touch the ball whilst it is in play.
government should never make a tackle.

you lefties have completely f^^ked up ideas on what government can, could and should do.

Yet 'governments' love to crow about how their policies 'created' jobs, but never how their policies Destroyed jobs....

I'd say the whole game needs a good look at - there's got to be an investigation... someone has to take responsibility for this!

It remains, however, the responsibility of government to adequately care for the well-being and social security of those afflicted by piss poor management in 'business'.

Or maybe the workers need to take over the businesses and run them properly. Now there's a thought... must be some historical antecedents there.. sounds like a real possibility though the way those idiots in management are carrying on like used care salesmen with room temperature IQs in Celsius...

I find the prevailing view that Government should be run like a business the height of infamy and misinformation.

Governments are NOT a business, nor should they be expected to perform like a business.

Governments are elected TO CARE FOR ALL THE PEOPLE... not insist that evryone works to make profit, and those who don't for whatever reason... are deemed useless and an impost. fodder for social sanction . How sad..

what an indictment of our humanity.

I guess it depends on what you think a govt IS.

MY VIEW..

Government should never be run for the benefit of the rich... it can only be judged by the way it treats the most disadvantaged...

Abbott Government .. FAIL.

You'll get no argument from me on that, Emma.

I've been saying the same thing for years, usually to an audience with their
eyes closed and their fingers wedged tightly into their ear-canals.

I can 'get' common ignorance due to not having the facts, or an admitted
lack of knowledge on a particular subject, but I have little time or patience
for those who, when the facts are presented, choose to reject them
and remain ignorant (usually because of bigotry or narrow-mindedness).

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Emma

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Re: Pensioners To Consider Protest Rally
Reply #70 - Jun 10^th, 2014 at 1:10am

indeed some people delight in 'opposing'.
Abbott declared it the only proper role for an Opposition...

And proceeded to prove just how harmful such unreasoned opposition can be. We now live in this environment..

No real intellectual application... just an appeal to the lowest common denominator... raising the spectre of racism and hatred of the different, the poor, the perceived 'burdens' of society.. like the mentally ill... the children and the elderly..

Sad day for Australia.. and.. I am afraid... it proves the paucity of our claim to civilisation.. and... it lays open the obvious... the strong take from the weak.
This is OK...? Angry

No it is not.

The inhumanity of this government really decreases the reasons why Indonesia continues to hold off invading Australia. Soon they will be able to claim.. it is for the greater good. !! Tongue

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aquascoot

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Re: Pensioners To Consider Protest Rally
Reply #71 - Jun 10^th, 2014 at 6:58am

Grappler Racist Filth wrote on Jun 8^th, 2014 at 2:04pm:

aquascoot wrote on Jun 8^th, 2014 at 9:55am:

jobs are created in the real economy (real jobs that is) by business.

governments role is that of an umpire in a football match . to keep business honest and apply fair rules.

government should never touch the ball whilst it is in play.
government should never make a tackle.

you lefties have completely f^^ked up ideas on what government can, could and should do.

Yet 'governments' love to crow about how their policies 'created' jobs, but never how their policies Destroyed jobs....

I'd say the whole game needs a good look at - there's got to be an investigation... someone has to take responsibility for this!

It remains, however, the responsibility of government to adequately care for the well-being and social security of those afflicted by piss poor management in 'business'.

Or maybe the workers need to take over the businesses and run them properly. Now there's a thought... must be some historical antecedents there.. sounds like a real possibility though the way those idiots in management are carrying on like used care salesmen with room temperature IQs in Celsius...

No, government can only set rules and umpire.
The citizens, the small business people, the families "create' the game.
If businesses are run badly, they get relegated from the premier league.
if players use dirty tactics or cheat, they are refered to the judiciary.
Government simply does not have the skills to "run" the game.
One needs look no further then government attempts to run aboriginal communities, government attempts to pick winners in automotive industries, the NBN blowouts, school sheds and a host of others.

If you want a job , ask me and i'll tell you exactly how to get one. Its so easy and it is totally divorced from any government involvement.

we don't let government run E Harmony, or RSVP.com to find us partner.
Why do lefties think government must find them a "date" with an employer.

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aquascoot

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Re: Pensioners To Consider Protest Rally
Reply #72 - Jun 10^th, 2014 at 7:08am

Bam wrote on Jun 8^th, 2014 at 10:10pm:

aquascoot wrote on Jun 8^th, 2014 at 6:24am:

Emma wrote on Jun 8^th, 2014 at 1:26am:

indeed indeed..

Those words ..

[b]Mutual obligation includes an obligation by the government to create jobs, not destroy them.
Mutual obligation includes not allowing 457 visas to be rorted to deny jobs to unemployed Australians.
Mutual obligation includes identifying and removing barriers of entry into the workforce.
Mutual obligation includes not allowing discrimination against the unemployed when hiring.
Mutual obligation includes providing real assistance to allow people to get into work.

The government has failed its obligations on all these counts..

Those words BELONG to BAM

Well said Bam.
And it is undeniable.

What a load of absolute Bullsh.t,

It is NOT the responsibility of government to find you a job.

I never said that, which makes your argument a fallacious straw man argument.

It IS the responsibility of the government to create jobs: by direct investment in the public service, by creating the economic conditions so that the private sector can create jobs, investing in projects, or reforming the labour laws as needed.

It is not the role of government to destroy jobs and then blame the victims, either directly or fostering unfounded hatred for those unfortunate to be left without a chair in the great game of musical chairs that is the job market.

Quote:

You find one in the economy yourself by interacting with fellow citizens who want to buy your labour,

Here is where you fail. You should be loudly berating anyone that casts unfounded aspersions on the unemployed, to take away the incentive that employers have to hire the unemployed rather than a job swapper. Well-heeled conservatives never understand what life is like at the fringes of the job market, where people chase the merest scraps of work so they can pay the most basic of bills.

Yet the government is destroying jobs all over the place, with a list of companies laying off staff that is too long to mention in full, but includes Qantas, Australia Post, and the entire car manufacturing industry.

Quote:

What next,

Demanding that the government find you a date, a partner or a lover.
You have got some seriously demented ideas

This point is also fallacious - the slippery slope fallacy.

Bam, I will address your post.
pansi and emma believe in cradle to grave nurturing.
This is best obtained from family and friends. certainly not from Canberra.

Firstly, keating introduced super with the quite correct assertion that governments cannot provide for old age and people must take responsibility for themselves.
How much more so then, should people take responsibility for their employment when they are young fit and virile, if keating says government catn look after the old and fragile.

Secondly, governments all over the world are increasingly under pressure and increasingly having to cut back services.
Global warming, aging populations, etc will see governments able to do less and less.
The days of the public service soaking up the unemployed are well and truly over. even Gillard had an efficiency dividend to cut 12,000 jobs.
the new jobs will be in the service sectors, small business and filling local niches. these will have to be self created.
There are a million possibilities. here's one I thought of this morning.
A coin operated dog wash.
there are millions of opportunities. they just aren't going to come to people with emmas and pansies attitude and they wont come from canberra

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aquascoot

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Re: Pensioners To Consider Protest Rally
Reply #73 - Jun 10^th, 2014 at 7:23am

Emma wrote on Jun 10^th, 2014 at 1:10am:

indeed some people delight in 'opposing'.
Abbott declared it the only proper role for an Opposition...

And proceeded to prove just how harmful such unreasoned opposition can be. We now live in this environment..

No real intellectual application... just an appeal to the lowest common denominator... raising the spectre of racism and hatred of the different, the poor, the perceived 'burdens' of society.. like the mentally ill... the children and the elderly..

Sad day for Australia.. and.. I am afraid... it proves the paucity of our claim to civilisation.. and... it lays open the obvious... the strong take from the weak.
This is OK...? Angry

No it is not.

The inhumanity of this government really decreases the reasons why Indonesia continues to hold off invading Australia. Soon they will be able to claim.. it is for the greater good. !! Tongue

Oh My

I think the average water buffalo in Indonesia has a higher IQ than you Wink

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ImSpartacus2

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Re: Pensioners To Consider Protest Rally
Reply #74 - Jun 10^th, 2014 at 8:44am

aquascoot wrote on Jun 10^th, 2014 at 6:58am:

Grappler Racist Filth wrote on Jun 8^th, 2014 at 2:04pm:

aquascoot wrote on Jun 8^th, 2014 at 9:55am:

jobs are created in the real economy (real jobs that is) by business.

governments role is that of an umpire in a football match . to keep business honest and apply fair rules.

government should never touch the ball whilst it is in play.
government should never make a tackle.

you lefties have completely f^^ked up ideas on what government can, could and should do.

Yet 'governments' love to crow about how their policies 'created' jobs, but never how their policies Destroyed jobs....

I'd say the whole game needs a good look at - there's got to be an investigation... someone has to take responsibility for this!

It remains, however, the responsibility of government to adequately care for the well-being and social security of those afflicted by piss poor management in 'business'.

Or maybe the workers need to take over the businesses and run them properly. Now there's a thought... must be some historical antecedents there.. sounds like a real possibility though the way those idiots in management are carrying on like used care salesmen with room temperature IQs in Celsius...

No, government can only set rules and umpire.
The citizens, the small business people, the families "create' the game.
If businesses are run badly, they get relegated from the premier league.
if players use dirty tactics or cheat, they are refered to the judiciary.
Government simply does not have the skills to "run" the game.
One needs look no further then government attempts to run aboriginal communities, government attempts to pick winners in automotive industries, the NBN blowouts, school sheds and a host of others.

If you want a job , ask me and i'll tell you exactly how to get one. Its so easy and it is totally divorced from any government involvement.

we don't let government run E Harmony, or RSVP.com to find us partner.
Why do lefties think government must find them a "date" with an employer.

Because government is always promising that the welfare, copious tax deductions and lower tax rates to business will generate jobs AND THEY DON'T. Sick of you blokes constantly getting a free ride for nothing in return. You want to generate jobs? Put a fair wage in people's pockets and watch them spend; Stop this crazy welfare to business and divert the $$$ to the poor and vulnerable where its needed and watch them spend. You want to reduce the deficit? Force business to pay fair salaries instead of governments having to subsidies the sh!t wages business pays with government welfare. Stimulate the economy put $$$$ in peoples pockets and they will spend and create the jobs. The trickle down effect is a lie.

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