Australian Politics Forum - Pensioners To Consider Protest Rally

Kat

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Re: Pensioners To Consider Protest Rally
Reply #135 - Jun 12^th, 2014 at 2:29pm

aquascoot wrote on Jun 12^th, 2014 at 9:08am:

Kat wrote on Jun 12^th, 2014 at 8:43am:

Quote:

this is why work for the dole could be potentially very good.
Especially if young people can be farmed out to small business on job experience.

Work for the Dole is rubbish. Its sole purpose is to punish, on those grounds alone it should be abolished. Its failings have been pointed out many times by many people. Seems to be only the right who keep pushing for it to be expanded, despite it having been shown to be a failure.

Farm them out? WTF!! They're not animals!!! BTW, they do that in the UK, it has FAILED. Young people are being sacked, then sent back to their old jobs AS WfD PARTICIPANTS!!!

Quote:

But we don't want the sort of "entitled " people who would rather go to a protest rally and whine then get their hands dirty.
By all means , encourage these no hopers to keep protesting and keep them right away from the job market. we don't want them

Once and for all, the dole is NOT an entitlement, it is a RIGHT. Deny it all you like, it's a fact. See below.

And those 'no-hopers' are the ones who drive real change in societies, almost always for the better. I suppose you'd have called the anti-Vietnam war protestors 'no-hopers' too? What is it with conservatives, that they cannot stand the idea of anyone who stands up for rights, freedoms, or a fair go??

Your ideas aren't really intended to actually help the unemployed though, are they? You just want them to suffer and go without, like the majority of the right.

This whole attack on pensioners and the unemployed is bullsh1t, it's not the dole or the pension which make up the bulk of the welfare spend, it's middle-class entitlements like FTB, childcare rebate etc, and silly things like the baby-bonus.

It ISN'T the dole, and it ISN'T disability pensioners.

Can't you see when you're being conned??

Unkind and untrue.
I would imagine sitting in some silly job club sending out your resume over and over would be soul destroying.

Now, if you got to go and work at a mechanics, or a panel beaters or a hospital or a farm and help out , you would get

1 some skills, even if its just handing the tools to the boss.
2 some social interaction.
3 some contacts, you'd go to the pub with the boys on a Friday avo and they'd shout you a beer. you'd meet one of their fellow tradies who's looking for a kid to start as a pool builder or a landscaper and the boss would say 'give this kid a go, he's a good kid' and "hey presto' youre on your way.

Do you think the job network agencies go to the pub on a firday avo and have a get together. I bet they don't, people probably cant get out the door quick enough

Actually, I agree with this idea, and it would be of far more benefit to them than WfD.

Interestingly, I have actually scored a couple of jobs simply by being in a pub at the right time. This
was during the 'recession we had to have'. Anyway, some time later I was sucked into one of those
pointless 'Job Club' thingies, and the instructor wanted our ideas on' how to look for work, and where'.

So I told the class about it, and got a very abrupt 'THAT'S not job-seeking!' from the instructor.

'Oh, really?' I replied. 'Then how come it led to a job?'.

Instructor gets huffy and goes all quiet, class erupts in laughter.

You had to be there, but it was priceless!!!

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Kat Gold Member Offline Socialism IS the answer. Posts: 17709 Everywhere and no-where Gender:	Re: Pensioners To Consider Protest Rally Reply #136 - Jun 12^th, 2014 at 3:17pm Bumpetty-bump.
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John Smith

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Re: Pensioners To Consider Protest Rally
Reply #137 - Jun 12^th, 2014 at 9:01pm

aquascoot wrote on Jun 12^th, 2014 at 11:26am:

Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Jun 12^th, 2014 at 10:40am:

this is why work for the dole could be potentially very good.
Especially if young people can be farmed out to small business on job experience.

You don't need work for the dole for that. There is no limit to the number of enterprising businesses that will take job seekers for 'training'. The only trouble is the training seems to be never ending, week after week, month after month (if the participant is stupid enough) without any paid job coming from it.

The unemployed should not be exploited by greedy businesses. All work should be paid work, otherwise it's slavery.

All good community minded people do tuck shop, school working bees, school fetes, help with little athletics, help with the local soccer club, do a bit of volunteering with the rspca, do clean up Australia day.

and they regard it as a chance to give something back. I doubt they consider it slavery.

none of the organisations running those things are motivated by profit ....... Cheesy

If you make money from my work, I should make money from my work.

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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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Emma

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Re: Pensioners To Consider Protest Rally
Reply #138 - Jun 12^th, 2014 at 10:22pm

[quote author=pansi1951 link=1401874568/130#130 date=1402533659]this is why work for the dole could be potentially very good.
Especially if young people can be farmed out to small business on job experience.

You don't need work for the dole for that. There is no limit to the number of enterprising businesses that will take job seekers for 'training'. The only trouble is the training seems to be never ending, week after week, month after month (if the participant is stupid enough) without any paid job coming from it.

The unemployed should not be exploited by greedy businesses. All work should be paid work, otherwise it's slavery.[/quote]

Agree.

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Postmodern Trendoid III

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Re: Pensioners To Consider Protest Rally
Reply #139 - Jun 13^th, 2014 at 12:22am

Kat wrote on Jun 12^th, 2014 at 1:52pm:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Jun 12^th, 2014 at 9:21am:

Kat wrote on Jun 12^th, 2014 at 8:43am:

Work for the Dole is rubbish. Its sole purpose is to punish, on those grounds alone it should be abolished. Its failings have been pointed out many times by many people. Seems to be only the right who keep pushing for it to be expanded, despite it having been shown to be a failure.

Everyone I knew that did it got extra self-esteem and extra cash.
Just because it felt like you were being punished when you did it, doesn't mean everyone feels it's punishment. This is like the feminist arguments on powerlessness. Just because they feel powerless doesn't mean all women feel that way.

It is punishment, and everyone but the govt and its conga-
line know it. No amount of spin from the government or BS
propaganda from its supporters will change that. The fact that you claim
it isn't just shows how little of a clue you have.

And the snide comment about my WfD experiences or lack of
them is irrelevant. I don't do WfD.

However, I do supervise WfD participants.

At least, I think they're WfD participants.

They might not be, though, because they neither look nor
behave as the right would have us believe 'dole bludgers'
do.

Well, you don't speak for those who I've conversed with about work for the dole. Your rancorous perspective is your own.

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Kat

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Re: Pensioners To Consider Protest Rally
Reply #140 - Jun 13^th, 2014 at 1:35am

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Jun 13^th, 2014 at 12:22am:

Kat wrote on Jun 12^th, 2014 at 1:52pm:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Jun 12^th, 2014 at 9:21am:

Kat wrote on Jun 12^th, 2014 at 8:43am:

Work for the Dole is rubbish. Its sole purpose is to punish, on those grounds alone it should be abolished. Its failings have been pointed out many times by many people. Seems to be only the right who keep pushing for it to be expanded, despite it having been shown to be a failure.

Everyone I knew that did it got extra self-esteem and extra cash.
Just because it felt like you were being punished when you did it, doesn't mean everyone feels it's punishment. This is like the feminist arguments on powerlessness. Just because they feel powerless doesn't mean all women feel that way.

It is punishment, and everyone but the govt and its conga-
line know it. No amount of spin from the government or BS
propaganda from its supporters will change that. The fact that you claim
it isn't just shows how little of a clue you have.

And the snide comment about my WfD experiences or lack of
them is irrelevant. I don't do WfD.

However, I do supervise WfD participants.

At least, I think they're WfD participants.

They might not be, though, because they neither look nor
behave as the right would have us believe 'dole bludgers'
do.

Well, you don't speak for those who I've conversed with about work for the dole. Your rancorous perspective is your own.

You need to get out more (or get out, full stop) because I'm hearing the exact opposite, from both 'lefties' and 'righties'.

It's really only the right-wing extremists and no-idea dills such as yourself who honestly believe that the idea has merit.

No-one who's capable of thinking past the 'Dole recipient = bludger who must be punished' mentality of the far right
supports it in its current punitive form.

Give them some decent industry-recognised training while they're participating, and pay them a decent supplement for
participating ($20/fortnight no matter how many days or hours they do is neither fair, just nor reasonable) and people
might start seeing it as being of some use, and not as being the baldly punitive measure that it is.

But if you want to argue based on ideology rather than reality, there's not much point in continuing.

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Postmodern Trendoid III Gold Member Offline Posts: 10300 Gender:	Re: Pensioners To Consider Protest Rally Reply #141 - Jun 13^th, 2014 at 9:18am I am merely passing on what I've been told and observed. That everyone you know thinks it's punish probably has more to do with the crabby people you converse with and their entitlement mentality than anything else.
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Kat

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Re: Pensioners To Consider Protest Rally
Reply #142 - Jun 13^th, 2014 at 2:58pm

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Jun 13^th, 2014 at 9:18am:

I am merely passing on what I've been told and observed. That everyone you know thinks it's punish probably has more to do with the crabby people you converse with and their entitlement mentality than anything else.

No, I don't think so. They're mainly other tradies and business owners (both currently, and
retired). There are also a couple of cops, a 'screw' or two, several teachers and a few emer-
gency workers among my circle of friends.

Or did you think I only sit around in pubs with crims, 'dole-bludgers' and DSP recips all day?

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BlindFreddy Full Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 159 Gender:	Re: Pensioners To Consider Protest Rally Reply #143 - Jun 13^th, 2014 at 4:21pm Quick, farts unite! Strap your megaphones to your walking frames, bull bars to your gophers. Let's take this town and show the pollies that we're not all Alzheimer ridden! CHARGE........ Your credit card
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Emma

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Re: Pensioners To Consider Protest Rally
Reply #144 - Jun 15^th, 2014 at 1:18am

and now we have Carer's having to think about protesting..

These people., the Carer's of those needing such one on one attention, ARE doing their best....

This whole 'bash the disadvantaged ' is just TOO F'n MUCH.!!!

These people... these CARER'S are saving the feds big dollars every single day.
Without their mostly ignored or undervalued efforts,, the govts.. State and Federal..
would HAVE TO PAY much bigger $$$$$$$$ out ...
they take this largely unpaid, or minimally compensated, silent work force totally for granted, because they know these carers would do it anyway...

Disgraceful..unconscionable, and divest of any ethical validity...This input by the govt .. that these carers... MUST be PREPARED,, to go back to the workforce .. ( presumably once their loved one(s) is DEAD) Angry

... is so despicable...

These pollies Worship Money... and nothing else.!!!! Tongue

Sickening that this is AUSTRALIA.!!!

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Ex Dame Pansi

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Re: Pensioners To Consider Protest Rally
Reply #145 - Jun 15^th, 2014 at 6:31am

Emma wrote on Jun 15^th, 2014 at 1:18am:

and now we have Carer's having to think about protesting..

These people., the Carer's of those needing such one on one attention, ARE doing their best....

This whole 'bash the disadvantaged ' is just TOO F'n MUCH.!!!

These people... these CARER'S are saving the feds big dollars every single day.
Without their mostly ignored or undervalued efforts,, the govts.. State and Federal..
would HAVE TO PAY much bigger $$$$$$$$ out ...
they take this largely unpaid, or minimally compensated, silent work force totally for granted, because they know these carers would do it anyway...

Disgraceful..unconscionable, and divest of any ethical validity...This input by the govt .. that these carers... MUST be PREPARED,, to go back to the workforce .. ( presumably once their loved one(s) is DEAD) Angry

... is so despicable...

These pollies Worship Money... and nothing else.!!!! Tongue

Sickening that this is AUSTRALIA.!!!

It is sickening that a once great country can go to the pits so quickly.

Imagine if they were given a second term.

There's only one thing to do.

Unite in protest.

BOTR!!!!!!

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"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace." Hendrix
andrei said: Great isn't it? Seeing boatloads of what is nothing more than human garbage turn up.....

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aquascoot

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Re: Pensioners To Consider Protest Rally
Reply #146 - Jun 15^th, 2014 at 6:47am

Emma wrote on Jun 15^th, 2014 at 1:18am:

and now we have Carer's having to think about protesting..

These people., the Carer's of those needing such one on one attention, ARE doing their best....

This whole 'bash the disadvantaged ' is just TOO F'n MUCH.!!!

These people... these CARER'S are saving the feds big dollars every single day.
Without their mostly ignored or undervalued efforts,, the govts.. State and Federal..
would HAVE TO PAY much bigger $$$$$$$$ out ...
they take this largely unpaid, or minimally compensated, silent work force totally for granted, because they know these carers would do it anyway...

Disgraceful..unconscionable, and divest of any ethical validity...This input by the govt .. that these carers... MUST be PREPARED,, to go back to the workforce .. ( presumably once their loved one(s) is DEAD) Angry

... is so despicable...

These pollies Worship Money... and nothing else.!!!! Tongue

Sickening that this is AUSTRALIA.!!!

Oh emma, a lot of it is leftards worshipping money and nothing else.

As an example 25,000 Australian parents receive the Child Disability Allowance of $49 a week because their child has asthma.
90,000 because their child has ADD (often a dubious diagnosis and often really a "disruptive child" due to poor or absent discipline in the home).

Are you telling me that people have to be PAID by the government to give thei kids a nebuliser when they are coughing. Are you telling me that when your sick kid wakes you at midnite coughing and wheezing, a leftard wouldn't be bothered getting out of bed to care for them without a Canberra payment.
If that is the case, I think its fairly obvious who the real villains are, who really doesn't care about anyone but themselves and who needs to be called out for their selfishness.

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Ex Dame Pansi Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 24168	Re: Pensioners To Consider Protest Rally Reply #147 - Jun 15^th, 2014 at 7:41am Help save Newstart for our vulnerable youth. Don't forget you could be made redundant at any time. https://www.getup.org.au/campaigns/newstart/protect-our-young-jobseekers/protect...
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Kat

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Re: Pensioners To Consider Protest Rally
Reply #148 - Jun 15^th, 2014 at 10:09am

aquascoot wrote on Jun 15^th, 2014 at 6:47am:

Emma wrote on Jun 15^th, 2014 at 1:18am:

and now we have Carer's having to think about protesting..

These people., the Carer's of those needing such one on one attention, ARE doing their best....

This whole 'bash the disadvantaged ' is just TOO F'n MUCH.!!!

These people... these CARER'S are saving the feds big dollars every single day.
Without their mostly ignored or undervalued efforts,, the govts.. State and Federal..
would HAVE TO PAY much bigger $$$$$$$$ out ...
they take this largely unpaid, or minimally compensated, silent work force totally for granted, because they know these carers would do it anyway...

Disgraceful..unconscionable, and divest of any ethical validity...This input by the govt .. that these carers... MUST be PREPARED,, to go back to the workforce .. ( presumably once their loved one(s) is DEAD) Angry

... is so despicable...

These pollies Worship Money... and nothing else.!!!! Tongue

Sickening that this is AUSTRALIA.!!!

Oh emma, a lot of it is leftards worshipping money and nothing else.

As an example 25,000 Australian parents receive the Child Disability Allowance of $49 a week because their child has asthma.
90,000 because their child has ADD (often a dubious diagnosis and often really a "disruptive child" due to poor or absent discipline in the home).

Are you telling me that people have to be PAID by the government to give thei kids a nebuliser when they are coughing. Are you telling me that when your sick kid wakes you at midnite coughing and wheezing, a leftard wouldn't be bothered getting out of bed to care for them without a Canberra payment.
If that is the case, I think its fairly obvious who the real villains are, who really doesn't care about anyone but themselves and who needs to be called out for their selfishness.

Fairly? Try 'glaringly'.

It's greedy right-wing conservatives who are to blame.

No-one else.

And everyone but them can see it easily.

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Kat Gold Member Offline Socialism IS the answer. Posts: 17709 Everywhere and no-where Gender:	Re: Pensioners To Consider Protest Rally Reply #149 - Jun 15^th, 2014 at 10:14am Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Jun 15^th, 2014 at 7:41am: Help save Newstart for our vulnerable youth. Don't forget you could be made redundant at any time. https://www.getup.org.au/campaigns/newstart/protect-our-young-jobseekers/protect... Signed.
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