Australian Politics Forum - Pensioners To Consider Protest Rally

Bam

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Re: Pensioners To Consider Protest Rally
Reply #120 - Jun 11^th, 2014 at 6:14pm

ian wrote on Jun 11^th, 2014 at 10:21am:

aquascoot wrote on Jun 11^th, 2014 at 8:17am:

Bam, there are plenty of jobs.
I pulled a leaflet out of my letterbox yesterday for
"nutters -gutters"
saying they would clean out my gutter for $200.
It reminded me to get up and do it myself which took about 2 hours.
So someone with no skills can grab a ladder and get work at $100/hour.
I see the nutters gutters van around a bit so he's getting some work.

WTF is it with people always talking about "advertised work"
95 % of jobs are never advertised.
You get them by being community integrated.

Join rotary, lions, the PYC, the local tuck shop and I will guarantee you will meet someone who is hiring.
people employ people they meet in the community.
Only a numptie would read the classifieds

Think outside the square.

This is a different generation, realistically most young people cant tie their shoe laces without some form of assistance. This unfortunately is the generation we have created. 20 years of relative affluence and across the board welfare has done the damage, I dont think we can go back on it now.

We've had unemployment benefits in this country for almost 70 years.

What has done the damage is the move away from full employment since the mid-1970s, and the current messed-up system where unemployed people are seen as an inconvenience that has to be managed instead of people that need help. In the meantime we have built up all sorts of walls that keep the unemployed from finding work. The unemployed require qualifications for just about everything before being considered for a job (while those with jobs don't require the same qualifications). Government funding is only available for one career; changing careers can be expensive if a needed qualification is of equivalent or lower level to qualifications already held. Discrimination against the unemployed is rampant in the community and this also keeps them out of work.

We should bring back the good old days when a government would be voted out of office if they let unemployment get as high as two percent.

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Kat

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Re: Pensioners To Consider Protest Rally
Reply #121 - Jun 11^th, 2014 at 10:13pm

aquascoot wrote on Jun 11^th, 2014 at 8:58am:

Kat wrote on Jun 11^th, 2014 at 8:30am:

Quote:

Its that hidden job market that they keep talking about. Jobs so well hidden, no one can find them. Sad

Yeah, that'd be the one...

Its not rocket science.

see how many jobs are created for the month of may (probably about 20,000).
if only 1000 people got their job by responding to a "job ad" how do you think the other 19,000 got employed.
its not what you know, its who you know.

So stop being angry at business owners, be nice, get involved and hey presto, you'll have work.

No need.

I have work.

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Soren Gold Member Offline Posts: 25654 Gender:	Re: Pensioners To Consider Protest Rally Reply #122 - Jun 11^th, 2014 at 11:20pm Volunteer. Don't tell me there is nothing you can DO. Give back. Contribute. Earn the dole.
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Soren

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Re: Pensioners To Consider Protest Rally
Reply #123 - Jun 11^th, 2014 at 11:24pm

ian wrote on Jun 10^th, 2014 at 6:02pm:

Abbott quite cleverly has targeted the same people who won't vote for him anyway, everyone else including those with faux outrage at the cuts will still vote for him because he is still buying their votes through massive middle and upper class welfare, whilst people continue to vote for their own selfish self entitlement nothing in this country will change and Australians will get the government they deserve.

Whereas if we continue to fund the continuing expansion of the ranks of the non-productive welfare sector, that will get us a government that will cater to those drones' selfish sense of entitlement.

10/10.

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Kat

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Re: Pensioners To Consider Protest Rally
Reply #124 - Jun 12^th, 2014 at 1:23am

Soren wrote on Jun 11^th, 2014 at 11:20pm:

Volunteer.
Don't tell me there is nothing you can DO. Give back. Contribute. Earn the dole.

Another one with no idea, but ready to judge anyway.

Yeah, I volunteer, and if you think that's something to sneer at, then I pity you.

I also have PAID work, AND I go to Tafe two nights a week to gain a few more
skills (and no, I wasn't sent' by anyone, it's not a 'Centerlink' thing). Go to Chat
and have a look at the Night School thread if you want to see what I'm doing
(but I bet you don't).

So, given that I not only pay tax but also donate my time for nothing to work
for charity, I'd say I certainly DO contribute my share. I sure don't spend all
day on the couch as you seem to think.

I certainly contribute far more than those who sit on their computers all day
mocking me for it.

But, carry on... Angry

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Grappler Racist Filth

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Re: Pensioners To Consider Protest Rally
Reply #125 - Jun 12^th, 2014 at 1:30am

Soren wrote on Jun 11^th, 2014 at 11:24pm:

ian wrote on Jun 10^th, 2014 at 6:02pm:

Abbott quite cleverly has targeted the same people who won't vote for him anyway, everyone else including those with faux outrage at the cuts will still vote for him because he is still buying their votes through massive middle and upper class welfare, whilst people continue to vote for their own selfish self entitlement nothing in this country will change and Australians will get the government they deserve.

Whereas if we continue to fund the continuing expansion of the ranks of the non-productive welfare sector, that will get us a government that will cater to those drones' selfish sense of entitlement.

10/10.

No - it will ultimately force that government to re-think its strategies and actually start doing something about the problems instead of struggling mightily to feather its own nest....

With any luck it will bring the whole thing down.... and we can start again with a new deck...

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aquascoot

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Re: Pensioners To Consider Protest Rally
Reply #126 - Jun 12^th, 2014 at 7:09am

Bam wrote on Jun 11^th, 2014 at 6:14pm:

ian wrote on Jun 11^th, 2014 at 10:21am:

aquascoot wrote on Jun 11^th, 2014 at 8:17am:

Bam, there are plenty of jobs.
I pulled a leaflet out of my letterbox yesterday for
"nutters -gutters"
saying they would clean out my gutter for $200.
It reminded me to get up and do it myself which took about 2 hours.
So someone with no skills can grab a ladder and get work at $100/hour.
I see the nutters gutters van around a bit so he's getting some work.

WTF is it with people always talking about "advertised work"
95 % of jobs are never advertised.
You get them by being community integrated.

Join rotary, lions, the PYC, the local tuck shop and I will guarantee you will meet someone who is hiring.
people employ people they meet in the community.
Only a numptie would read the classifieds

Think outside the square.

This is a different generation, realistically most young people cant tie their shoe laces without some form of assistance. This unfortunately is the generation we have created. 20 years of relative affluence and across the board welfare has done the damage, I dont think we can go back on it now.

We've had unemployment benefits in this country for almost 70 years.

What has done the damage is the move away from full employment since the mid-1970s, and the current messed-up system where unemployed people are seen as an inconvenience that has to be managed instead of people that need help. In the meantime we have built up all sorts of walls that keep the unemployed from finding work. The unemployed require qualifications for just about everything before being considered for a job (while those with jobs don't require the same qualifications). Government funding is only available for one career; changing careers can be expensive if a needed qualification is of equivalent or lower level to qualifications already held. Discrimination against the unemployed is rampant in the community and this also keeps them out of work.

We should bring back the good old days when a government would be voted out of office if they let unemployment get as high as two percent.

No, governments only set and enforce the rules.
Would you sack the judiciary if there was a rising number of criminals??

government cannot fix this and if they try they may likely make it worse by going the greek, Spanish solution with big spending followed by massive unemployment.
Flexibility in the labour market would help.
The current jobs networks are a waste of time.
As I have said, you get a job through word of mouth, mixing with the populace. Most small businesses would never consider advertising for a job. they find a new employee at their church, indoor cricket team, at a BBQ, from an existing employee vouching for them.

this is why work for the dole could be potentially very good.
Especially if young people can be farmed out to small business on job experience.
believe me, the millions of small businesses can always use an extra set of eager hands.
But we don't want the sort of "entitled " people who would rather go to a protest rally and whine then get their hands dirty.
By all means , encourage these no hopers to keep protesting and keep them right away from the job market. we don't want them Wink

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Kat

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Re: Pensioners To Consider Protest Rally
Reply #127 - Jun 12^th, 2014 at 8:43am

Quote:

this is why work for the dole could be potentially very good.
Especially if young people can be farmed out to small business on job experience.

Work for the Dole is rubbish. Its sole purpose is to punish, on those grounds alone it should be abolished. Its failings have been pointed out many times by many people. Seems to be only the right who keep pushing for it to be expanded, despite it having been shown to be a failure.

Farm them out? WTF!! They're not animals!!! BTW, they do that in the UK, it has FAILED. Young people are being sacked, then sent back to their old jobs AS WfD PARTICIPANTS!!!

Quote:

But we don't want the sort of "entitled " people who would rather go to a protest rally and whine then get their hands dirty.
By all means , encourage these no hopers to keep protesting and keep them right away from the job market. we don't want them

Once and for all, the dole is NOT an entitlement, it is a RIGHT. Deny it all you like, it's a fact. See below.

And those 'no-hopers' are the ones who drive real change in societies, almost always for the better. I suppose you'd have called the anti-Vietnam war protestors 'no-hopers' too? What is it with conservatives, that they cannot stand the idea of anyone who stands up for rights, freedoms, or a fair go??

Your ideas aren't really intended to actually help the unemployed though, are they? You just want them to suffer and go without, like the majority of the right.

This whole attack on pensioners and the unemployed is bullsh1t, it's not the dole or the pension which make up the bulk of the welfare spend, it's middle-class entitlements like FTB, childcare rebate etc, and silly things like the baby-bonus.

It ISN'T the dole, and it ISN'T disability pensioners.

Can't you see when you're being conned??

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aquascoot

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Re: Pensioners To Consider Protest Rally
Reply #128 - Jun 12^th, 2014 at 9:08am

Kat wrote on Jun 12^th, 2014 at 8:43am:

Quote:

this is why work for the dole could be potentially very good.
Especially if young people can be farmed out to small business on job experience.

Work for the Dole is rubbish. Its sole purpose is to punish, on those grounds alone it should be abolished. Its failings have been pointed out many times by many people. Seems to be only the right who keep pushing for it to be expanded, despite it having been shown to be a failure.

Farm them out? WTF!! They're not animals!!! BTW, they do that in the UK, it has FAILED. Young people are being sacked, then sent back to their old jobs AS WfD PARTICIPANTS!!!

Quote:

But we don't want the sort of "entitled " people who would rather go to a protest rally and whine then get their hands dirty.
By all means , encourage these no hopers to keep protesting and keep them right away from the job market. we don't want them

Once and for all, the dole is NOT an entitlement, it is a RIGHT. Deny it all you like, it's a fact. See below.

And those 'no-hopers' are the ones who drive real change in societies, almost always for the better. I suppose you'd have called the anti-Vietnam war protestors 'no-hopers' too? What is it with conservatives, that they cannot stand the idea of anyone who stands up for rights, freedoms, or a fair go??

Your ideas aren't really intended to actually help the unemployed though, are they? You just want them to suffer and go without, like the majority of the right.

This whole attack on pensioners and the unemployed is bullsh1t, it's not the dole or the pension which make up the bulk of the welfare spend, it's middle-class entitlements like FTB, childcare rebate etc, and silly things like the baby-bonus.

It ISN'T the dole, and it ISN'T disability pensioners.

Can't you see when you're being conned??

Unkind and untrue.
I would imagine sitting in some silly job club sending out your resume over and over would be soul destroying.

Now, if you got to go and work at a mechanics, or a panel beaters or a hospital or a farm and help out , you would get

1 some skills, even if its just handing the tools to the boss.
2 some social interaction.
3 some contacts, you'd go to the pub with the boys on a Friday avo and they'd shout you a beer. you'd meet one of their fellow tradies who's looking for a kid to start as a pool builder or a landscaper and the boss would say 'give this kid a go, he's a good kid' and "hey presto' youre on your way.

Do you think the job network agencies go to the pub on a firday avo and have a get together. I bet they don't, people probably cant get out the door quick enough

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Postmodern Trendoid III

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Re: Pensioners To Consider Protest Rally
Reply #129 - Jun 12^th, 2014 at 9:21am

Kat wrote on Jun 12^th, 2014 at 8:43am:

Work for the Dole is rubbish. Its sole purpose is to punish, on those grounds alone it should be abolished. Its failings have been pointed out many times by many people. Seems to be only the right who keep pushing for it to be expanded, despite it having been shown to be a failure.

Everyone I knew that did it got extra self-esteem and extra cash.
Just because it felt like you were being punished when you did it, doesn't mean everyone feels it's punishment. This is like the feminist arguments on powerlessness. Just because they feel powerless doesn't mean all women feel that way.

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Ex Dame Pansi

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Re: Pensioners To Consider Protest Rally
Reply #130 - Jun 12^th, 2014 at 10:40am

this is why work for the dole could be potentially very good.
Especially if young people can be farmed out to small business on job experience.

You don't need work for the dole for that. There is no limit to the number of enterprising businesses that will take job seekers for 'training'. The only trouble is the training seems to be never ending, week after week, month after month (if the participant is stupid enough) without any paid job coming from it.

The unemployed should not be exploited by greedy businesses. All work should be paid work, otherwise it's slavery.

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"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace." Hendrix
andrei said: Great isn't it? Seeing boatloads of what is nothing more than human garbage turn up.....

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aquascoot

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Re: Pensioners To Consider Protest Rally
Reply #131 - Jun 12^th, 2014 at 11:26am

Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Jun 12^th, 2014 at 10:40am:

this is why work for the dole could be potentially very good.
Especially if young people can be farmed out to small business on job experience.

You don't need work for the dole for that. There is no limit to the number of enterprising businesses that will take job seekers for 'training'. The only trouble is the training seems to be never ending, week after week, month after month (if the participant is stupid enough) without any paid job coming from it.

The unemployed should not be exploited by greedy businesses. All work should be paid work, otherwise it's slavery.

All good community minded people do tuck shop, school working bees, school fetes, help with little athletics, help with the local soccer club, do a bit of volunteering with the rspca, do clean up Australia day.

and they regard it as a chance to give something back. I doubt they consider it slavery.

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Ex Dame Pansi

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Re: Pensioners To Consider Protest Rally
Reply #132 - Jun 12^th, 2014 at 11:34am

aquascoot wrote on Jun 12^th, 2014 at 11:26am:

Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Jun 12^th, 2014 at 10:40am:

this is why work for the dole could be potentially very good.
Especially if young people can be farmed out to small business on job experience.

You don't need work for the dole for that. There is no limit to the number of enterprising businesses that will take job seekers for 'training'. The only trouble is the training seems to be never ending, week after week, month after month (if the participant is stupid enough) without any paid job coming from it.

The unemployed should not be exploited by greedy businesses. All work should be paid work, otherwise it's slavery.

All good community minded people do tuck shop, school working bees, school fetes, help with little athletics, help with the local soccer club, do a bit of volunteering with the rspca, do clean up Australia day.

and they regard it as a chance to give something back. I doubt they consider it slavery.

I meant all work participation by the unemployed as part of a program to get them into the paid workforce ie on the job training for a possible position.

I didn't mean voluntary work., which is a totally different scenario.

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"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace." Hendrix
andrei said: Great isn't it? Seeing boatloads of what is nothing more than human garbage turn up.....

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Soren

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Re: Pensioners To Consider Protest Rally
Reply #133 - Jun 12^th, 2014 at 1:09pm

Kat wrote on Jun 12^th, 2014 at 1:23am:

Soren wrote on Jun 11^th, 2014 at 11:20pm:

Volunteer.
Don't tell me there is nothing you can DO. Give back. Contribute. Earn the dole.

Another one with no idea, but ready to judge anyway.

Yeah, I volunteer, and if you think that's something to sneer at, then I pity you.

I also have PAID work, AND I go to Tafe two nights a week to gain a few more
skills (and no, I wasn't sent' by anyone, it's not a 'Centerlink' thing). Go to Chat
and have a look at the Night School thread if you want to see what I'm doing
(but I bet you don't).

So, given that I not only pay tax but also donate my time for nothing to work
for charity, I'd say I certainly DO contribute my share. I sure don't spend all
day on the couch as you seem to think.

I certainly contribute far more than those who sit on their computers all day
mocking me for it.

But, carry on... Angry

Good on ya.

And so why can't the people on the dole do the same - go to TAFE, volunteer. Earn their way one way or another.

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Kat

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Re: Pensioners To Consider Protest Rally
Reply #134 - Jun 12^th, 2014 at 1:52pm

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Jun 12^th, 2014 at 9:21am:

Kat wrote on Jun 12^th, 2014 at 8:43am:

Work for the Dole is rubbish. Its sole purpose is to punish, on those grounds alone it should be abolished. Its failings have been pointed out many times by many people. Seems to be only the right who keep pushing for it to be expanded, despite it having been shown to be a failure.

Everyone I knew that did it got extra self-esteem and extra cash.
Just because it felt like you were being punished when you did it, doesn't mean everyone feels it's punishment. This is like the feminist arguments on powerlessness. Just because they feel powerless doesn't mean all women feel that way.

It is punishment, and everyone but the govt and its conga-
line know it. No amount of spin from the government or BS
propaganda from its supporters will change that. The fact that you claim
it isn't just shows how little of a clue you have.

And the snide comment about my WfD experiences or lack of
them is irrelevant. I don't do WfD.

However, I do supervise WfD participants.

At least, I think they're WfD participants.

They might not be, though, because they neither look nor
behave as the right would have us believe 'dole bludgers'
do.

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