Australian Politics Forum - There's not much hope while the law allows this

Lord Herbert

Gold Member

Offline

Posts: 34441
Gender: male

Re: There's not much hope while the law allows this
Reply #15 - May 9^th, 2014 at 5:08pm

mantra wrote on May 9^th, 2014 at 4:45pm:

Lord Herbert wrote on May 9^th, 2014 at 2:26pm:

Jesus, That's a new one to me.

It's called canned hunting. I'll search for the article that says they are also taken out of the wild. I would post more pictures, but they're too heartbreaking. The bloke in the picture has used arrows which is even more inhumane.

Quote:

There are now more captive lions in South Africa than wild ones, and many of these animals are reared specifically to be shot and owned by wealthy tourists from Europe and North America. Patrick Barkham visits a lion-breeding farm in North Eastern Free State, South Africa, to investigate the relationship between the rearing of lions in captivity and the so-called 'canned hunting' industry

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/video/2013/jun/03/lions-canned-hunting-so...

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/audio/video/2013/5/23/136932951...

Did I start this thread? What the hell's the matter with me? It must be the heart tablets I'm taking.

Forget the photos, Lady Mantra.

Absolutely disgusting. There should be an embargo on these countries.

I have watched docos in which proponents of 'tourist/trophy' hunting in Africa is defended as being the main source of income for humanitarian programs with other animals.

The pathetic individuals who travel to Africa to shoot a lion or whatever, pay HUGE sums of money for this 'privilege' ~ money that is earmarked for some laudible projects. It's not entirely easy to argue against this compromise, even though it panders to the immaturity of the rich Americans and others who are their main 'clients'.

And don't get me started on the Oriental medicines industry that causes untold slaughter and suffering to the world's most magnificent animals.

Back to top

IP Logged

mantra

Gold Member

Offline

ozpolitic.com

Posts: 10750
Gender: female

Re: There's not much hope while the law allows this
Reply #16 - May 9^th, 2014 at 6:21pm

It is a depressing thread, but it's real. We are regressing when it comes to preserving and treating animals humanely. First world countries used to protest and boycott second and third world countries who slaughtered animals so recklessly, but we are joining them now, not for survival, but greedy exploitation to make people wealthier.

We won't be around hopefully, but there will come a day when our progeny won't have enough to eat. The animals will be gone, either through disease caused by captivity, or slaughtering just for the sake of it. Money won't buy food or clean water when all our natural resources have been eradicated.

Back to top

IP Logged

Lord Herbert

Gold Member

Offline

Posts: 34441
Gender: male

Re: There's not much hope while the law allows this
Reply #17 - May 9^th, 2014 at 8:55pm

I was going to post a reply, but it's all too depressing ...

*******

Gizmo brought another live mouse into the house today ~ just to tell me it's HIS, and I can't have it.

Dropped it on the lounge room floor, and then when I got up to rescue the little critter, he grabbed it and ran out the cat-flap in the back-door.

10 minutes later I opened the back-door, and there he was on the pathway, shamelessly chewing the last remains of his latest catch.

He's now sleeping in his basket beside me with not the slightest sense of guilt. It was a recreational killing, nothing to do with survival ...

Back to top

« Last Edit: May 9^th, 2014 at 9:04pm by Lord Herbert »

IP Logged

mantra

Gold Member

Offline

ozpolitic.com

Posts: 10750
Gender: female

Re: There's not much hope while the law allows this
Reply #18 - May 10^th, 2014 at 11:51am

Lord Herbert wrote on May 9^th, 2014 at 8:55pm:

I was going to post a reply, but it's all too depressing ...

Good. I hate these subjects. These days I bury my head in the sand to avoid thinking about it all. Too sad.

Quote:

Gizmo brought another live mouse into the house today ~ just to tell me it's HIS, and I can't have it.

Dropped it on the lounge room floor, and then when I got up to rescue the little critter, he grabbed it and ran out the cat-flap in the back-door.

10 minutes later I opened the back-door, and there he was on the pathway, shamelessly chewing the last remains of his latest catch.

He's now sleeping in his basket beside me with not the slightest sense of guilt. It was a recreational killing, nothing to do with survival

This could be considered a cruel subject also. How long does it take - and what methods does your cat use to kill a rodent?

Ruffy kills them instantly. Sia plays with them. When I've take them away from her - they're always paraplegics. There's the dilemma - should I bash them over the head with something or pretend I haven't noticed. A couple of times I've put them in a little box hoping they'd recover or die, but neither happens. I can no longer break their necks.

Pretending you haven't seen the poor creature is the easiest option, but it goes against my ethics.

Back to top

IP Logged

mantra

Gold Member

Offline

ozpolitic.com

Posts: 10750
Gender: female

Re: There's not much hope while the law allows this
Reply #19 - May 10^th, 2014 at 11:56am

bludger wrote on May 8^th, 2014 at 10:41pm:

Ok I'm sorry. I'm sorry, but I once shot a rabbit that had myxo.
I missed it three times and it didn't move. I went up to it and it was blind. So I shot it in the head. Myxo is bad but you want to see what 1080 does to animals. The fox eats the bait and the poison sucks the oxygen from its body . They go berserk, try to climb trees. It takes hours for them to die as they slowly suffocate. A nightmare for the poor buggars.
1080 should be banned. Ask any Vet.

You did the only humane thing possible. 1080 is banned in the States, but Australia is always backwards when it comes to the humane treatment of animals.

What's the solution? A faster acting poison? Crops and stock are the livelihood of farmers and feral animals are a pest. There are too many of them to be shot and traps are expensive, time consuming and just as cruel.

Back to top

IP Logged

Lord Herbert

Gold Member

Offline

Posts: 34441
Gender: male

Re: There's not much hope while the law allows this
Reply #20 - May 10^th, 2014 at 12:36pm

mantra wrote on May 10^th, 2014 at 11:51am:

Good. I hate these subjects. These days I bury my head in the sand to avoid thinking about it all. Too sad.

I use a bucket myself.

Quote:

Gizmo brought another live mouse into the house today ~ just to tell me it's HIS, and I can't have it.

[quote author=mantra link=1399459062/18#18 date=1399686688]Sia plays with them. When I've take them away from her - they're always paraplegics.

God! Why am I laughing! It's Male Menopause, Lady Mantra. I'll be better next year.

The mice Gizmo teases me with are always in first rate condition ~ no wheelchair or defibrillator needed. 'Crunch time' comes later ...

mantra wrote on May 10^th, 2014 at 11:51am:

There's the dilemma - should I bash them over the head with something or pretend I haven't noticed.

Pretend you haven't noticed.

Just go to the kitchen to make yourself a cup of tea while doing this ... Roll Eyes

... and ignore the crunching sounds you can hear from the lounge room.

mantra wrote on May 10^th, 2014 at 11:51am:

Pretending you haven't seen the poor creature is the easiest option, but it goes against my ethics.

Do a double-header.

Pretend you haven't seen anything, and for the duration of these little dramas ... pretend you haven't any ethics.

Problem solved.

Back to top

IP Logged

sherri

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 746
Melbourne, Australia
Gender: female

Re: There's not much hope while the law allows this
Reply #21 - May 11^th, 2014 at 6:45am

I find the whole topic of senseless hunting very depressing. I can't understand what people get out of it.
It is one thing to hunt for food but just for a trophy shot? Barbaric.

Another thing I can't understand either is some fishermen who will deliberately try to catch a specific big fish in a lake-then throw it back. Just to show they can do it. I have read a few reports about people doing things like that, and I wonder if they ever think about the unnecessary pain they cause the creature.

Back to top

IP Logged

sherri Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 746 Melbourne, Australia Gender:	Re: There's not much hope while the law allows this Reply #22 - May 11^th, 2014 at 6:47am Oh, trapping mice is allowable in my code of ethics. Logical reason for it, see. And I am not against spider slaughter either.
Back to top	IP Logged

Lord Herbert

Gold Member

Offline

Posts: 34441
Gender: male

Re: There's not much hope while the law allows this
Reply #23 - May 11^th, 2014 at 7:22am

sherri wrote on May 11^th, 2014 at 6:47am:

Oh, trapping mice is allowable in my code of ethics. Logical reason for it, see.

Gizmo's been catching about one a day for a fortnight now. I didn't bury my food scraps in the compost bin as I should have ... a mini-plague of them.

He's been enjoying the 'chase' ~ and the extra protein to his diet. So at least one of us is happy about this turn of events.

I'm wholly against traps that are nothing but sticky mats. That's cruel. If the mice and rats are then killed quickly after being trapped ~ then okay.

sherri wrote on May 11^th, 2014 at 6:47am:

And I am not against spider slaughter either.

As long as they're killed 'halal', I'm okay with that too. Tongue

Back to top

IP Logged

Lord Herbert

Gold Member

Offline

Posts: 34441
Gender: male

Re: There's not much hope while the law allows this
Reply #24 - May 11^th, 2014 at 7:43am

sherri wrote on May 11^th, 2014 at 6:45am:

I find the whole topic of senseless hunting very depressing. I can't understand what people get out of it.

I've had otherwise intelligent people telling me that "Man is a hunter, and it's a basic right of Nature that humans should stalk 'beasts-of-the-field' to satisfy an ancient urge to assert his dominant position in the hierarchy of predatory creatures" ... blah blah blah.

sherri wrote on May 11^th, 2014 at 6:45am:

Another thing I can't understand either is some fishermen who will deliberately try to catch a specific big fish in a lake-then throw it back. Just to show they can do it. I have read a few reports about people doing things like that, and I wonder if they ever think about the unnecessary pain they cause the creature.

Here's some interesting information on fish feeling pain.

Previous studies looked for pain receptors in fish with cartilaginous or non-bony skeletons (creatures such as sharks or manta rays), and could not find any.

But trout (like us humans) have a bony skeleton, which is why the researchers chose them - and the results were startling.

The first thing that the scientists showed in their study of the 20 volunteer trout, was that they each had some 58 specialised receptors on their head. Some of these receptors responded to just one stimulus, while others responded to a bunch of stimuli.

In humans, receptors that pick up heat and mechanical pressure are identified as being pain receptors. So in the rainbow trout, 22 of the 58 receptors could be counted as pain receptors. In fact, under the microscope, these receptors look virtually identical to the corresponding human receptors. They also had very similar mechanical and thermal thresholds. These fish receptors send signals to the fish brain via nerves.

So the rainbow trout have the complete "neuro-apparatus" and wiring needed to experience pain.

Some of the fish took on a "rocking" behaviour, which people who have been through a close encounter with death will often do. (If you look closely at TV footage of the survivors of train accidents, earthquakes, etc, you will see some of them with their arms clasped to their chest, rocking back and forth.) Some of the fish refused to feed for a long time after the injury. Other fish rubbed their lips in the gravel of their tank, something they would normally never do.

So, the fish had post-traumatic stress reactions. Some of these were almost identical to human post-traumatic stress reactions (eg., rocking, not eating). Some reactions were the fish equivalent (eg, rubbing lips in gravel is their equivalent of us using our hands to rub our sore lips.)

The final test also suggested that trout can feel pain.

Then she gave them a pain killer, morphine. The fish behaviour returned to normal.

So what can you do next time you catch fish? Take some ice and icy water with you, and plunge the freshly-caught fish into the icy water. As the fish cools, its metabolism will slow down, and it will go (painlessly, we think) into hibernation and then anaesthesia. Then place it gently on the ice, but out of the water. It will suffocate to death, but while being anaethetised.

So just because fish are cold-blooded animals, doesn't mean that we have to be cold-blooded killers...

link

Back to top

IP Logged

buzzanddidj

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 14247
Eganstown, via Daylesford, VIC
Gender: male

Re: There's not much hope while the law allows this
Reply #25 - May 15^th, 2014 at 8:43am

Lord Herbert wrote on May 7^th, 2014 at 8:37pm:

It's not brave, it's not manly, it's not clever, it's not a benefit in any shape or form.

These are

pathetic, inadequate personalities who believe it adds to their status

if they can put a bullet into a defenseless animal.

NSW
Shooters' Party MP Robert Borsak
with an elephant he shot on safari in Zimbabwe

Back to top

'I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians.
Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.'

- Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi

IP Logged

St George of the Garden Gold Member Offline http://tinyurl.com/n 3o8m2x Posts: 9809 Gender:	Re: There's not much hope while the law allows this Reply #26 - May 29^th, 2014 at 10:25pm I have fished and I have shot bunnies. But I ate what I caught/shot. Have trapped/poisoned mice, threatening my livelyhood. But gave them a tap on the head with a hammer—no long drawn out death. If you eat meat—be prepared to kill some of it yourself. But shooting a lion or elephant? NEVER!
Back to top	I want Muso as GMod. Bring back Muso! IP Logged

Poll
Question: Should the slaughter of wilderness animals be legal?
Yes ~ if the animal has targeted humans Yes ~ for 'recreational sport' No ~ if it's for 'recreational sport' « Last Modified by: Lord Herbert on: May 9^th, 2014 at 7:44am »