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The Cost Of A Couple Of Cups Of Coffee. (Read 3245 times)
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Re: The Cost Of A Couple Of Cups Of Coffee.
Reply #30 - May 4th, 2014 at 10:45am
 
There are at least 3 areas in which I could make a living, and at least another 2 in which I can supplement my income.  I don't expect everyone to be at my level, but all they need is 1 of either.

There are 2 possible explanations for why I'm so much better:

1.  It's not really that hard

or

2.  I am an ubermensch.

so whaddya reckon it is?  1, 2 or both?
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Re: The Cost Of A Couple Of Cups Of Coffee.
Reply #31 - May 4th, 2014 at 10:46am
 
... wrote on May 4th, 2014 at 10:36am:
austranger wrote on May 4th, 2014 at 10:32am:
... wrote on May 4th, 2014 at 10:22am:
austranger wrote on May 4th, 2014 at 10:03am:
No, like many unthinking Liberal supporters you've been guilty of ignorance of the true situation, you're statement.
                Everyone has some sort of talent they can commoditise,
                   makes that clear, because as anyone in the lower levels of this society knows, that simply isn't true



Then WTF have they been doing with their lives?  By following ones interests, they develop skills.  Skills that can then be utilised for profit.


If these carbon sinks don't even have the motivation to do what interests them, what hope do we have of getting them to work? 

austranger wrote on May 4th, 2014 at 10:03am:
there's only so many of your "niches" that can be found or filled.



Rubbish, there's an infinite number.  You might sneer at people who do dog walking, or deal in scrap metal or second hand goods, but they're getting paid because they found a niche and filled it.  There's nothing but their own shortcomings to stop anyone from finding similar rackets.  But unlike you, I think ones shortcomings should be worked on and improved, rather than indulged. 


          Your still ignoring the sheer numbers involved involved, there are only so many dogs to be walked, so much scrap to be collected. Haven't you heard of the rule of diminishing returns?
         The more there are involved the less there is to be made, to paraphrase it roughly.
       Your assertion that there's an infinite number is blatantly ludicrous, nothing is infinite, especially NOT things that will return cash!
         As to this..
              But unlike you, I think ones shortcomings should be worked on and improved, rather than indulged.
       that's a ridiculous claim, you know nothing of my beliefs, or that the fact that my life has been itself a process of overcoming some severe "shortcomings", and that Ive constantly put my life where my beliefs are by volunteering in some of the most desperate and disgusting areas of Australia's need, can you claim the same?
      


Exactly - but that's the problem with always following the path well-travelled.  It's not finding a niche, if the niche has already been filled.  You're going to need to actually think about it.  Is that expecting too much?


        And you're still ignoring reality, there's not an endless supply of niches that will pay, that's a simple fact, would YOU actually PAY someone to polish your letterbox, or to wash the trees in your street? Most, if not ALL, of the possible niches have have already been found and filled, to excess, and there's STILL thousands and thousands of the poor and needy out there.
         I notice you didn't say anything about your volunteering, have YOU ever put yourself out to help those in need, or do you only sneer at them and demand that they NOT be disadvantaged and distressed, simply because YOU'RE not?
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Re: The Cost Of A Couple Of Cups Of Coffee.
Reply #32 - May 4th, 2014 at 10:58am
 
austranger wrote on May 4th, 2014 at 10:46am:
I notice you didn't say anything about your volunteering, have YOU ever put yourself out to help those in need, or do you only sneer at them and demand that they NOT be disadvantaged and distressed, simply because YOU'RE not?



Baiting me into a pissing contest eh?  Well, let me tell you something.

I earn less than minimum wage, and have a family of 4.  There ain't no trust fund for me to fall back on either.

I have volunteered at least 2 hours of time, for which I could earn at least $40 p/h for, every week for the last 12 years.  Put that into money terms bigshot - that's about $50,000, freely given by someone just 33 years of age who is working to provide for his own family. 

You can embellish your own selflessness to beat that if you want, but TBH I don't really care.

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Re: The Cost Of A Couple Of Cups Of Coffee.
Reply #33 - May 4th, 2014 at 11:04am
 
austranger wrote on May 4th, 2014 at 10:46am:
... wrote on May 4th, 2014 at 10:36am:
austranger wrote on May 4th, 2014 at 10:32am:
... wrote on May 4th, 2014 at 10:22am:
austranger wrote on May 4th, 2014 at 10:03am:
No, like many unthinking Liberal supporters you've been guilty of ignorance of the true situation, you're statement.
                Everyone has some sort of talent they can commoditise,
                   makes that clear, because as anyone in the lower levels of this society knows, that simply isn't true



Then WTF have they been doing with their lives?  By following ones interests, they develop skills.  Skills that can then be utilised for profit.


If these carbon sinks don't even have the motivation to do what interests them, what hope do we have of getting them to work? 

austranger wrote on May 4th, 2014 at 10:03am:
there's only so many of your "niches" that can be found or filled.



Rubbish, there's an infinite number.  You might sneer at people who do dog walking, or deal in scrap metal or second hand goods, but they're getting paid because they found a niche and filled it.  There's nothing but their own shortcomings to stop anyone from finding similar rackets.  But unlike you, I think ones shortcomings should be worked on and improved, rather than indulged. 


          Your still ignoring the sheer numbers involved involved, there are only so many dogs to be walked, so much scrap to be collected. Haven't you heard of the rule of diminishing returns?
         The more there are involved the less there is to be made, to paraphrase it roughly.
       Your assertion that there's an infinite number is blatantly ludicrous, nothing is infinite, especially NOT things that will return cash!
         As to this..
              But unlike you, I think ones shortcomings should be worked on and improved, rather than indulged.
       that's a ridiculous claim, you know nothing of my beliefs, or that the fact that my life has been itself a process of overcoming some severe "shortcomings", and that Ive constantly put my life where my beliefs are by volunteering in some of the most desperate and disgusting areas of Australia's need, can you claim the same?
      


Exactly - but that's the problem with always following the path well-travelled.  It's not finding a niche, if the niche has already been filled.  You're going to need to actually think about it.  Is that expecting too much?


        And you're still ignoring reality, there's not an endless supply of niches that will pay, that's a simple fact, would YOU actually PAY someone to polish your letterbox, or to wash the trees in your street? Most, if not ALL, of the possible niches have have already been found and filled, to excess, and there's STILL thousands and thousands of the poor and needy out there.
         I notice you didn't say anything about your volunteering, have YOU ever put yourself out to help those in need, or do you only sneer at them and demand that they NOT be disadvantaged and distressed, simply because YOU'RE not?


Seems there's always an excuse for not trying...scrape a couple of bucks together and buy something, then sell it; wash cars; do gardening; wash windows;walk around and put your name down at every business in your area.

If you don't swing, you don't hit...




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Re: The Cost Of A Couple Of Cups Of Coffee.
Reply #34 - May 4th, 2014 at 11:10am
 
The Heartless Felon wrote on May 4th, 2014 at 11:04am:
austranger wrote on May 4th, 2014 at 10:46am:
... wrote on May 4th, 2014 at 10:36am:
austranger wrote on May 4th, 2014 at 10:32am:
... wrote on May 4th, 2014 at 10:22am:
austranger wrote on May 4th, 2014 at 10:03am:
No, like many unthinking Liberal supporters you've been guilty of ignorance of the true situation, you're statement.
                Everyone has some sort of talent they can commoditise,
                   makes that clear, because as anyone in the lower levels of this society knows, that simply isn't true



Then WTF have they been doing with their lives?  By following ones interests, they develop skills.  Skills that can then be utilised for profit.


If these carbon sinks don't even have the motivation to do what interests them, what hope do we have of getting them to work? 

austranger wrote on May 4th, 2014 at 10:03am:
there's only so many of your "niches" that can be found or filled.



Rubbish, there's an infinite number.  You might sneer at people who do dog walking, or deal in scrap metal or second hand goods, but they're getting paid because they found a niche and filled it.  There's nothing but their own shortcomings to stop anyone from finding similar rackets.  But unlike you, I think ones shortcomings should be worked on and improved, rather than indulged. 


          Your still ignoring the sheer numbers involved involved, there are only so many dogs to be walked, so much scrap to be collected. Haven't you heard of the rule of diminishing returns?
         The more there are involved the less there is to be made, to paraphrase it roughly.
       Your assertion that there's an infinite number is blatantly ludicrous, nothing is infinite, especially NOT things that will return cash!
         As to this..
              But unlike you, I think ones shortcomings should be worked on and improved, rather than indulged.
       that's a ridiculous claim, you know nothing of my beliefs, or that the fact that my life has been itself a process of overcoming some severe "shortcomings", and that Ive constantly put my life where my beliefs are by volunteering in some of the most desperate and disgusting areas of Australia's need, can you claim the same?
      


Exactly - but that's the problem with always following the path well-travelled.  It's not finding a niche, if the niche has already been filled.  You're going to need to actually think about it.  Is that expecting too much?


        And you're still ignoring reality, there's not an endless supply of niches that will pay, that's a simple fact, would YOU actually PAY someone to polish your letterbox, or to wash the trees in your street? Most, if not ALL, of the possible niches have have already been found and filled, to excess, and there's STILL thousands and thousands of the poor and needy out there.
         I notice you didn't say anything about your volunteering, have YOU ever put yourself out to help those in need, or do you only sneer at them and demand that they NOT be disadvantaged and distressed, simply because YOU'RE not?


Seems there's always an excuse for not trying...scrape a couple of bucks together and buy something, then sell it; wash cars; do gardening; wash windows;walk around and put your name down at every business in your area.

If you don't swing, you don't hit...







That's the idea.  When I was in uni, a couple of things I used to do to make a few extra bucks were:

Collecting and refurbishing fitness equipment from bulk rubbish collections and selling it.

Scanning the quokka (and this was before gumtree, which is even better) for bargains, buying and selling them.

It was irregular income, and not very much of it, but it was something.  It was the difference between hunger and satiation. You'll note there aren't any diplomas or specialised equipment required - just a little interest and motivation.  I'd like to think everyone would have some area of expertise they can utilise in a similar manner.
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Re: The Cost Of A Couple Of Cups Of Coffee.
Reply #35 - May 4th, 2014 at 11:14am
 
... wrote on May 4th, 2014 at 10:58am:
austranger wrote on May 4th, 2014 at 10:46am:
I notice you didn't say anything about your volunteering, have YOU ever put yourself out to help those in need, or do you only sneer at them and demand that they NOT be disadvantaged and distressed, simply because YOU'RE not?



Baiting me into a pissing contest eh?  Well, let me tell you something.

I earn less than minimum wage, and have a family of 4.  There ain't no trust fund for me to fall back on either.

I have volunteered at least 2 hours of time, for which I could earn at least $40 p/h for, every week for the last 12 years.  Put that into money terms bigshot - that's about $50,000, freely given by someone just 33 years of age who is working to provide for his own family. 

You can embellish your own selflessness to beat that if you want, but TBH I don't really care.

http://cdn.gifbay.com/2013/10/pissing_contest-95691.gif

         I'm glad to hear that, but I wonder about that two hours, does that involve anything your kids are involved in?
    Either way, I applaude you.
           I've detailed my personal efforts in other threads on this site, and provided photographic proof too, so I won't go into too many details again, merely say that I've given thousands of hours across my life, and suffered assaults and abuse for my efforts along the way too. I've worked for and with the Salvo's, St Vinnies, Indigenous and Private efforts, and I intend to again, my family life takes precedence at the mo', I'm carer for my failing parents.
       I raised three kids as a single-dad, held down two jobs and volunteered at their various involvements, and with the Sallies etc at the same time, so I can understand your life too.
          My personal belief is that it behooves those of us that are better off to help those who aren't, NOT judge and belittle them, and no matter how difficult my life has been I've always seen that there were others in more difficult straights, and tried my best to help them.
             I hope and pray that you, and others, can find something of that within your own souls, if everyone did that then this mad nation of ours would be a far better place thereby, wouldn't it?
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Re: The Cost Of A Couple Of Cups Of Coffee.
Reply #36 - May 4th, 2014 at 11:24am
 
austranger wrote on May 4th, 2014 at 11:14am:
I hope and pray that you, and others, can find something of that within your own souls, if everyone did that then this mad nation of ours would be a far better place thereby, wouldn't it?



Absolutely, but it's not going to happen while the "can't the government do it?" mentality is encouraged. 

There are few things I hate more than asking for help, but I will freely give it if asked and if it's appreciated.  The problem with government assistance as opposed to more personal or community based assistance is that it's expected, not appreciated.  Also it should be remembered that it is meant to be Assistance, not their everything.  I'm still going to need to see evidence of effort on their part.
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Re: The Cost Of A Couple Of Cups Of Coffee.
Reply #37 - May 4th, 2014 at 11:31am
 
... wrote on May 4th, 2014 at 11:24am:
austranger wrote on May 4th, 2014 at 11:14am:
I hope and pray that you, and others, can find something of that within your own souls, if everyone did that then this mad nation of ours would be a far better place thereby, wouldn't it?



Absolutely, but it's not going to happen while the "can't the government do it?" mentality is encouraged. 

There are few things I hate more than asking for help, but I will freely give it if asked and if it's appreciated.  The problem with government assistance as opposed to more personal or community based assistance is that it's expected, not appreciated.  Also it should be remembered that it is meant to be Assistance, not their everything.  I'm still going to need to see evidence of effort on their part.


       While I can't in principle disagree with your general approach I DO disagree with the way the present Gov, and others, extends that too far, into a " Blame the victims" mind-set. There is a limit to what the unemployed and other recipients can reasonably accomplish, and while an effort on their part is sensible, punishing them for not succeeding is despicable, in my book anyway.
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Re: The Cost Of A Couple Of Cups Of Coffee.
Reply #38 - May 4th, 2014 at 11:45am
 
If you look back to the OP, this was about a woman bemoaning that her parenting payment was cut off - but her children are almost adults.  It's not like they need 24 hour supervision anymore.
 
So she's got dozens of hours to herself each week to do something positive - people would kill for that sort of free time.  If she chooses not to, it's not my problem.  I can't make her live her life a certain way, but it's her (and her family) who have to live with the consequences of her (lack of) action.  Sometimes the only thing people are victims of, is themselves. 

Personally, I can endure all sorts of hardship, but if I am inflicting that same hardship upon my loved ones, I know I need to do more to find a way. 
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Re: The Cost Of A Couple Of Cups Of Coffee.
Reply #39 - May 4th, 2014 at 3:35pm
 
... wrote on May 4th, 2014 at 11:45am:
If you look back to the OP, this was about a woman bemoaning that her parenting payment was cut off - but her children are almost adults.  It's not like they need 24 hour supervision anymore.
 
So she's got dozens of hours to herself each week to do something positive - people would kill for that sort of free time.  If she chooses not to, it's not my problem.  I can't make her live her life a certain way, but it's her (and her family) who have to live with the consequences of her (lack of) action.  Sometimes the only thing people are victims of, is themselves. 

Personally, I can endure all sorts of hardship, but if I am inflicting that same hardship upon my loved ones, I know I need to do more to find a way. 

I think that before we make judgements about the woman in the article we need a lot more information about her circumstances. How did she become a single parent? Was it because her partner died, did she flee an abusive relationship, was it a normal separation? If it is the latter then where is the father's child support in all this? Maybe her partner was the sole provider and she never thought she would have to work, but was suddenly saddled with two young children on her own, which is in itself an obstacle to further qualification. I am not saying that any one of these is correct, but that you are making a series of judgements about this women based on incomplete information about the circumstances.

The point she made about the parenting allowance was not that it didn't exist now, but that it was cut off when her children were eight and above.

This part of the article actually raises an interesting reflective component on that governmental policy. Under the prior scheme where she received the parenting allowance, she and her brother were able to manage a mortgage; when it was removed she had to go back to renting. Surely it is in the long term interests of society that more people own property? This is a valuable asset that can remove the burden on the taxpayer - it means less people needing government subsidised housing and can be sold to fund retirement.

Single parents face the challenge of being both provider and nurturer for their children with little or no assistance. There is no hard and fast information about which to weight higher. A parent who focuses on providing at the expense of nurturing runs the risk of children lacking parental supervision and becoming delinquent. A parent who focuses on nurture at the expense of provision runs the risk of struggling to make ends meet and their children missing out on opportunities.

The alternative reading to this article is that rather than being a victim/entitled, this is a woman who has done her very best to raise her children with as little government support as possible. Is it really necessary to take away even more support?

The other point here is that while her children are older now, there will be people with much younger children who do require supervision and who this will impact to a far greater degree. She is not, I don't think, merely speaking about her personal circumstances, but highlighting the general impact that something like this has.
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