Australian Politics Forum - Gallipoli disaster not Britain's fault ....

Lord Herbert

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Gallipoli disaster not Britain's fault ....
Apr 25^th, 2014 at 3:56pm

Myth: Bumbling British to blame for failed landing

Another myth is that British generals were to blame for the failure of the Gallipoli campaign.

Wrong again, says Professor Stanley. "The first landing was opposed by only about 80 Turks, and the defenders were soon massively out-numbered, but the invaders failed to advance inland as they had been ordered," he says.

He says the Australians' orders were to push on and capture a hill called Maltepe, seven kilometres inland. But the Australian brigadiers got nervous and told their men to dig in on the second ridge, and that's where they stayed for the rest of the eight-month campaign.
Video: British to blame for failed landing: Watch what the experts say about this myth. (ABC News)

Professor Stanley says Australians wanted to blame somebody else for a failure that was basically a failure of Australian command.

Mr Ekins says the then Australian prime minister, Billy Hughes, was among the first to point the finger at the British. In fact, Mr Ekins says, there are multiple reasons for why the campaign failed. "The objectives in the first place, the conception of the whole campaign, was flawed," he says.

Wartime inquiries found the entire campaign had been misconceived from the start and was poorly carried out, resulting in the useless deaths of tens of thousands of allied soldiers.

A 1917 British parliamentary report concluded: "The failure at Anzac was due mainly to the difficulties of the country and the strength of the enemy."

However it also noted that had the British been successful at nearby Suvla, they may have lessened Turkish resistance at Anzac Cove.

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Rhet-Oracle Senior Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 408	Re: Gallipoli disaster not Britain's fault .... Reply #1 - Apr 25^th, 2014 at 3:57pm Same old, same old..........boring.
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Lord Herbert

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Re: Gallipoli disaster not Britain's fault ....
Reply #2 - Apr 25^th, 2014 at 4:00pm

Rhet-Oracle wrote on Apr 25^th, 2014 at 3:57pm:

Same old, same old..........boring.

To be honest, I hadn't heard this explanation before that the Aussie commander chose to dig in rather than advance his troops to a position several kilometers inland.

The result was that the troops were locked into a bad spot for the rest of the 8 month campaign.

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longweekend58 Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 45675 Gender:	Re: Gallipoli disaster not Britain's fault .... Reply #3 - Apr 25^th, 2014 at 4:02pm what a stupid thread. the british planned and executed the action and it was a monument to everything bad about the british command structure. The only successful part of the campaign was the retreat which was organised by Monash - an australian
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Aussie Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 39815 Gender:	Re: Gallipoli disaster not Britain's fault .... Reply #4 - Apr 25^th, 2014 at 4:03pm 80 Turks would have been over-run in a flash. I sense bull-shite. They could never have laid down enough fire to hold their positions. I notice no link Mr Mitty.
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longweekend58

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Re: Gallipoli disaster not Britain's fault ....
Reply #5 - Apr 25^th, 2014 at 4:07pm

Aussie wrote on Apr 25^th, 2014 at 4:03pm:

80 Turks would have been over-run in a flash. I sense bull-shite. They could never have laid down enough fire to hold their positions.

I notice no link Mr Mitty.

There are plenty of good books written on the campaing by actual historians. it basically details a complete disaster by the british.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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austranger

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Re: Gallipoli disaster not Britain's fault ....
Reply #6 - Apr 25^th, 2014 at 4:22pm

I was under the impression that the Aussie officers had been specifically ordered not to act independently, that wasn't acceptable as that was NOT the way the British Army operated, and thus they were only to act upon British orders as a part of a supposedly co-ordinated assault? Wasn't there a section that did actually penetrate some distance and yet were ordered BACK to the beach-head?
I'm no historian so I may well be wrong, if you can enlighten me go right ahead, learning things is part of the reason I joined here. Cool

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Any day with a smile in it is a good day

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Lord Herbert Gold Member Offline Posts: 34441 Gender:	Re: Gallipoli disaster not Britain's fault .... Reply #7 - Apr 25^th, 2014 at 4:28pm Aussie wrote on Apr 25^th, 2014 at 4:03pm: 80 Turks would have been over-run in a flash. I sense bull-shite. They could never have laid down enough fire to hold their positions. I notice no link Mr Mitty. link
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Aussie

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Re: Gallipoli disaster not Britain's fault ....
Reply #8 - Apr 25^th, 2014 at 4:35pm

Lord Herbert wrote on Apr 25^th, 2014 at 4:28pm:

Aussie wrote on Apr 25^th, 2014 at 4:03pm:

80 Turks would have been over-run in a flash. I sense bull-shite. They could never have laid down enough fire to hold their positions.

I notice no link Mr Mitty.

link

Come on Walter. No mention there about the number of Turks. Link please.

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Lord Herbert

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Re: Gallipoli disaster not Britain's fault ....
Reply #9 - Apr 25^th, 2014 at 4:44pm

austranger wrote on Apr 25^th, 2014 at 4:22pm:

I was under the impression that the Aussie officers had been specifically ordered not to act independently, that wasn't acceptable as that was NOT the way the British Army operated,

This is answered by the female professor in this short video. Australia's own politicians made the decision to leave it up to the British to command the Aussie troops.

link

austranger wrote on Apr 25^th, 2014 at 4:22pm:

I'm no historian so I may well be wrong,

Don't believe for a moment that you should sit humbly at the feet of so-called 'professional historians'. A great many of them are deceitful academic egotists with a barrow to push and an agenda to run.

Where they don't know the answers ~ they 'fictionalise' with guesswork pulled out of their censored.

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Lord Herbert

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Re: Gallipoli disaster not Britain's fault ....
Reply #10 - Apr 25^th, 2014 at 4:46pm

Aussie wrote on Apr 25^th, 2014 at 4:35pm:

Lord Herbert wrote on Apr 25^th, 2014 at 4:28pm:

Aussie wrote on Apr 25^th, 2014 at 4:03pm:

80 Turks would have been over-run in a flash. I sense bull-shite. They could never have laid down enough fire to hold their positions.

I notice no link Mr Mitty.

link

Come on Walter. No mention there about the number of Turks. Link please.

link

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Lord Herbert

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Re: Gallipoli disaster not Britain's fault ....
Reply #11 - Apr 25^th, 2014 at 4:52pm

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 25^th, 2014 at 4:07pm:

There are plenty of good books written on the campaing by actual historians. it basically details a complete disaster by the british.

With 'Freedom of Information', and a few brave Australian academics not afraid to be pilloried for daring to go public with the fact that Australians themselves were at fault in several major ways, we can now get a more clear picture that isn't corrupted by one-eyed jingoism and anti-British sentiment.

The first mistake was made even before the first Australian troops left to fight overseas ~~ and that was the Australian politicians voting to leave the military decisions to the British command.

They were under no obligation to do this ~ but they did, and so they must bear some blame for decisions that were consequently made by the Brits.

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austranger Gold Member Offline Opinionated Sod Posts: 1506 adelaide Gender:	Re: Gallipoli disaster not Britain's fault .... Reply #12 - Apr 25^th, 2014 at 4:57pm Thanks LH (I can't quote your post with links in it, not here long enough yet). So I was right in that detail then. As for the Pro' Historians I guess the answer would be to consult many of them and try to read between the lines then, we can't ask anyone who was there now.
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Lord Herbert

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Re: Gallipoli disaster not Britain's fault ....
Reply #13 - Apr 25^th, 2014 at 5:02pm

austranger wrote on Apr 25^th, 2014 at 4:57pm:

Thanks LH (I can't quote your post with links in it, not here long enough yet).
So I was right in that detail then.
As for the Pro' Historians I guess the answer would be to consult many of them and try to read between the lines then, we can't ask anyone who was there now.

Exactly. It's the one reason why I read and watch 'alternative' sources like Andrew Bolt, Keith Windschuttle, Larry Pickering, and a dozen more.

Use Google to squeeze out the truth from various sources.

I never believe I have reached the final conclusion on any subject. Always, something new pops up that modifies what has already been said.

Best of luck and welcome to the board.

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Sparky Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 1338 Gender:	Re: Gallipoli disaster not Britain's fault .... Reply #14 - Apr 25^th, 2014 at 5:06pm Whoever decided to make a landing in front of a series of crumbling cliff faces with deep valleys in between made the error. And they were poorly supplied also. That would have to be the English high command.
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