Australian Politics Forum - Gallipoli disaster not Britain's fault ....

BatteriesNotIncluded

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Re: Gallipoli disaster not Britain's fault ....
Reply #45 - Apr 26^th, 2014 at 11:15am

I went to kings park dawn service: not as big as some years gone by...

Unfortunately such perversions as war being a vote winner are reality!

THIS IS GROUPTHINK in a pistachio shell perhaps???

... Oh, yeh- forgot to tell ya... Had pistachios and beer and scones and cream and oh yeh a more local dawn service attended by my nan(96) and watched some 7yo kid play the violin...

Pretty cool

THE REASON I am a monarchist is because I think independence has knobs all over it. As someone has previously pointed out- maybe the grappler knight Huh

- monopoly and what is close to it has precedence. I ask myself if people want a knew flag just to wage a pointless war under??

I ask if the English really wanted us Aussies to die and conclude no of course not and with this sad source of forgiving strength the future can be forged and conclude most probably yes....

Confused, and possibly pigeon holed as conservative opinion, I conclude the monarchy is ok.

Basically, I don't see the point in going rogue just because of nasty life causing awkwardness and that this be the strength... That the anger be recycled into positivity... The negativity learned from all the more by not changing flags!

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*Sure....they're anti competitive as any subsidised job is. It wouldn't be there without the tax payer. Very damned difficult for a brainwashed collectivist to understand that I know.... (swaggy) *

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BatteriesNotIncluded

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people died for this!

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Re: Gallipoli disaster not Britain's fault ....
Reply #46 - Apr 26^th, 2014 at 11:17am

Ajax wrote on Apr 26^th, 2014 at 10:05am:

I always thought the brits saved their soldiers and sacrificed their loyal commonwealth subjects.

As far as I know that was the way of it.

Of course the brits would be quick to dispel these actions as shear nonsense.

wrong war same perpetrators.

Therefore you are a republican?

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*Sure....they're anti competitive as any subsidised job is. It wouldn't be there without the tax payer. Very damned difficult for a brainwashed collectivist to understand that I know.... (swaggy) *

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Ajax

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Re: Gallipoli disaster not Britain's fault ....
Reply #47 - Apr 26^th, 2014 at 11:18am

Lord Herbert wrote on Apr 26^th, 2014 at 11:05am:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Apr 26^th, 2014 at 9:32am:

War is a ridiculous mission.

You got that out of a Fortune Cookie or a Christmas cracker, didn't you?

Cheap and superficial.

WW1 and WW2 were fought to put would-be tyrants back in their box, and to restore the independence of sovereign nations, and to preserve the democratic freedoms enjoyed by millions of people.

War is the only way to defeat imperialist dictatorships.

(I'm putting you in the Naughty Corner, helian, until you make a sincere apology, and convince me that you are tearfully remorseful for having blurted out that ill-conceived utterance). Cool

While I respect our young men and women who sacrificed themselves in time of war.

What we should really be asking is who put these tyrants in such high places to start with.

Then war might seem quite different to what is envisaged by most of us.

The Shock Doctrine

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1. There has never been a more serious assault on our standard of living than Anthropogenic Global Warming..Ajax
2. "One hour of freedom is worth more than 40 years of slavery & prison" Regas Feraeos

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austranger

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Re: Gallipoli disaster not Britain's fault ....
Reply #48 - Apr 26^th, 2014 at 12:05pm

Lord Herbert wrote on Apr 26^th, 2014 at 9:10am:

[quote author=bobbythebat1 link=1398405363/32#32 date=1398464269]propagandised myth that the English were safely tucked up in their beds while the Aussies were getting slaughtered on the cliffs of Gallipoli.

I'd say that result was a product of the British leadership still locked into using 18th century tactics, and the Pommie grunts not having enough sense to keep their heads down as the ANZACS were inclined to do.
It was much the same everywhere in WWI, an aging and nepotistic leadership not realising the efficiency and killing capacity of Industrialised Warfare and using outmoded tactics.

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austranger

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Re: Gallipoli disaster not Britain's fault ....
Reply #49 - Apr 26^th, 2014 at 12:14pm

Lord Herbert wrote on Apr 26^th, 2014 at 9:10am:

Bobby. wrote on Apr 26^th, 2014 at 8:17am:

Stupid POMs - sending our men into a shooting gallery.

Correct!

But let's introduce a little perspective here regarding the 'Poms'.

Australians and New Zealanders will this week remember the sacrifice and courage of their forebears at Gallipoli 90 years ago, but few will realise that far more British soldiers died in the ill-fated campaign.

While British generals get the blame for sending innocent Australians to their deaths at Gallipoli, more than 21,000 of their own soldiers died and another 198,000 were wounded.

A total of 8,709 Australians died and 2,707 New Zealanders gave up their lives in the campaign which successive generations of Australians and New Zealanders grew up believing they were the only ones there.

While the Anzacs were landing at Ari Burnu on April 25, 1915, British forces were wading ashore under intense fire on six beaches at the southern tip of the Gallipoli peninsula at Helles.

The Helles landings were every bit as fatal and futile as what the Australians experienced 20 kilometres to the north.

Turkish documentary maker Tolga Ornek's film Gallipoli premiered this month portraying a view of the campaign from Australian, New Zealand, British and Turkish eyes.

"The British high command is worthy of almost every blame. The government, the politicians, the generals," Ornek said.

"But the (British) soldiers I think deserve as much respect as the Anzacs and the Turks.

"The irony is that among all the allied troops, the highest casualties were the British and everywhere in the world, people think the Anzac casualties were the worst, including the Turks."

Bobby ~ always seek to find the truth behind what the propagandists would have you believe.

A lot of the anti-Pommy sentiment so beloved of Australians since those times grew out of the propagandised myth that the English were safely tucked up in their beds while the Aussies were getting slaughtered on the cliffs of Gallipoli.

I'd say that result was a product of the British leadership still locked into using 18th century tactics, and the Pommie grunts not having enough sense to keep their heads down as the ANZACS were inclined to do.
It was much the same everywhere in WWI, an aging and nepotistic leadership not realising the efficiency and killing capacity of Industrialised Warfare and using outmoded tactics.

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NorthOfNorth

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Re: Gallipoli disaster not Britain's fault ....
Reply #50 - Apr 26^th, 2014 at 12:25pm

Lord Herbert wrote on Apr 26^th, 2014 at 11:05am:

WW1 and WW2 were fought to put would-be tyrants back in their box, and to restore the independence of sovereign nations, and to preserve the democratic freedoms enjoyed by millions of people.

War is the only way to defeat imperialist dictatorships.

WW 1 may not have happened if real statesmen, instead of Edward VII, had engineered alliances and not forged a Europe that left Germany isolated.

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Lord Herbert

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Re: Gallipoli disaster not Britain's fault ....
Reply #51 - Apr 26^th, 2014 at 12:33pm

NorthOfNorth wrote on Apr 26^th, 2014 at 12:25pm:

Lord Herbert wrote on Apr 26^th, 2014 at 11:05am:

WW1 and WW2 were fought to put would-be tyrants back in their box, and to restore the independence of sovereign nations, and to preserve the democratic freedoms enjoyed by millions of people.

War is the only way to defeat imperialist dictatorships.

WW 1 may not have happened if real statesmen, instead of Edward VII, had engineered alliances and not forged a Europe that left Germany isolated.

Apologist nonsense.

Germany was the aggressor. Period.

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NorthOfNorth

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Re: Gallipoli disaster not Britain's fault ....
Reply #52 - Apr 26^th, 2014 at 12:51pm

Lord Herbert wrote on Apr 26^th, 2014 at 12:33pm:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Apr 26^th, 2014 at 12:25pm:

Lord Herbert wrote on Apr 26^th, 2014 at 11:05am:

WW1 and WW2 were fought to put would-be tyrants back in their box, and to restore the independence of sovereign nations, and to preserve the democratic freedoms enjoyed by millions of people.

War is the only way to defeat imperialist dictatorships.

WW 1 may not have happened if real statesmen, instead of Edward VII, had engineered alliances and not forged a Europe that left Germany isolated.

Apologist nonsense.

Germany was the aggressor. Period.

By the manipulation of alliances (to isolate Germany) Edward VII created the conditions that later Sir Edward Grey was able to declare war of Germany after having assured the kaiser that Britain had no quarrel with Germany.

Grey failed to warn Germany that Britain would stand with France and Russia. Of course he did not suggest to France and Russia that Britain would remain neutral.

At it end, the Treaty of Versailles included the false statement that Germany was the sole aggressor and demanded $32 billion in war reparations and interest, thereby bankrupting Germany for nearly 15 years.

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Bobby. Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 120366 Melbourne Gender:	Re: Gallipoli disaster not Britain's fault .... Reply #53 - Apr 26^th, 2014 at 12:52pm The graves of the politicians who sent the men to Gallipoli should be disinterred & their skeletons whipped in public. ( just like the start of the movie " The Pit & the Pendulum" )
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NorthOfNorth Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 17258 Gender:	Re: Gallipoli disaster not Britain's fault .... Reply #54 - Apr 26^th, 2014 at 12:54pm Bobby. wrote on Apr 26^th, 2014 at 12:52pm: The graves of the politicians who sent the men to Gallipoli should be disinterred & their skeletons whipped in public. ( just like the start of the movie " The Pit & the Pendulum" ) Just like they did with Oliver Cromwell after the Restoration??!!
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Lord Herbert

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Re: Gallipoli disaster not Britain's fault ....
Reply #55 - Apr 26^th, 2014 at 1:13pm

NorthOfNorth wrote on Apr 26^th, 2014 at 12:51pm:

By the manipulation of alliances (to isolate Germany) Edward VII created the conditions that later Sir Edward Grey was able to declare war of Germany after having assured the kaiser that Britain had no quarrel with Germany.

Grey failed to warn Germany that Britain would stand with France and Russia. Of course he did not suggest to France and Russia that Britain would remain neutral.

At it end, the Treaty of Versailles included the false statement that Germany was the sole aggressor and demanded $32 billion in war reparations and interest, thereby bankrupting Germany for nearly 15 years.

Correction:

link

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longweekend58

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Re: Gallipoli disaster not Britain's fault ....
Reply #56 - Apr 26^th, 2014 at 1:19pm

NorthOfNorth wrote on Apr 26^th, 2014 at 12:25pm:

Lord Herbert wrote on Apr 26^th, 2014 at 11:05am:

WW1 and WW2 were fought to put would-be tyrants back in their box, and to restore the independence of sovereign nations, and to preserve the democratic freedoms enjoyed by millions of people.

War is the only way to defeat imperialist dictatorships.

WW 1 may not have happened if real statesmen, instead of Edward VII, had engineered alliances and not forged a Europe that left Germany isolated.

simplistic and blessed with hindsight. But since when does isolation justify invasion and slaughter . and then 20 years later, they did it again.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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Grappler Racist Filth

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Re: Gallipoli disaster not Britain's fault ....
Reply #57 - Apr 26^th, 2014 at 1:26pm

Lord Herbert wrote on Apr 26^th, 2014 at 9:10am:

Bobby. wrote on Apr 26^th, 2014 at 8:17am:

Stupid POMs - sending our men into a shooting gallery.

Correct!

But let's introduce a little perspective here regarding the 'Poms'.

Australians and New Zealanders will this week remember the sacrifice and courage of their forebears at Gallipoli 90 years ago, but few will realise that far more British soldiers died in the ill-fated campaign.

While British generals get the blame for sending innocent Australians to their deaths at Gallipoli, more than 21,000 of their own soldiers died and another 198,000 were wounded.

A total of 8,709 Australians died and 2,707 New Zealanders gave up their lives in the campaign which successive generations of Australians and New Zealanders grew up believing they were the only ones there.

While the Anzacs were landing at Ari Burnu on April 25, 1915, British forces were wading ashore under intense fire on six beaches at the southern tip of the Gallipoli peninsula at Helles.

The Helles landings were every bit as fatal and futile as what the Australians experienced 20 kilometres to the north.

Turkish documentary maker Tolga Ornek's film Gallipoli premiered this month portraying a view of the campaign from Australian, New Zealand, British and Turkish eyes.

"The British high command is worthy of almost every blame. The government, the politicians, the generals," Ornek said.

"But the (British) soldiers I think deserve as much respect as the Anzacs and the Turks.

"The irony is that among all the allied troops, the highest casualties were the British and everywhere in the world, people think the Anzac casualties were the worst, including the Turks."

link

Bobby ~ always seek to find the truth behind what the propagandists would have you believe.

A lot of the anti-Pommy sentiment so beloved of Australians since those times grew out of the propagandised myth that the English were safely tucked up in their beds while the Aussies were getting slaughtered on the cliffs of Gallipoli.

Well - what about Krythia - in which the Australian Second Brigade participated? Ordered to advance across a MILE of open space into the teeth of massed rifle, machine gun and artillery fire.

Many a good Tommy and poilu died there along with too many Australians.

The sacrifices of the British and Irish soldier (see the River Clyde) should not be used when considering the values and virtues of their commanders.

Two separate issues - nobody condemns the Tommy..... only his 'masters'...

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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Grappler Racist Filth Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 90326 Proud Old White Australian Man Gender:	Re: Gallipoli disaster not Britain's fault .... Reply #58 - Apr 26^th, 2014 at 1:33pm Kitchener himself advocated against Gallipoli - he wanted to land on the relatively open ground near ancient Troy and cut the Turkish Empire in two..
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NorthOfNorth

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Re: Gallipoli disaster not Britain's fault ....
Reply #59 - Apr 26^th, 2014 at 1:40pm

Lord Herbert wrote on Apr 26^th, 2014 at 1:13pm:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Apr 26^th, 2014 at 12:51pm:

By the manipulation of alliances (to isolate Germany) Edward VII created the conditions that later Sir Edward Grey was able to declare war of Germany after having assured the kaiser that Britain had no quarrel with Germany.

Grey failed to warn Germany that Britain would stand with France and Russia. Of course he did not suggest to France and Russia that Britain would remain neutral.

At it end, the Treaty of Versailles included the false statement that Germany was the sole aggressor and demanded $32 billion in war reparations and interest, thereby bankrupting Germany for nearly 15 years.

Correction:

link

http://tarpley.net/online-books/against-oligarchy/king-edward-vii-of-great-brita...

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