Australian Politics Forum - local Muslim celebrates ANZAC day

freediver

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local Muslim celebrates ANZAC day
Apr 25^th, 2014 at 11:55am

lest we forget...

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 25^th, 2014 at 11:38am:

freediver wrote on Apr 25^th, 2014 at 9:37am:

All the wars we have fought, and the people who have died to protect our freedom, are a figment of my imagination, a caricature of our past.

Correct.

Or I should clarify - many people may have died thinking they were protecting our freedom, but they were as deluded as you are. The reality is, every man and woman who has died fighting in Australia's wars died in the name of protecting either British or American economic hegemony.

The sad truth is - engaging ourselves in unnecessary wars of aggression threatens our freedoms, not protects them.

It's OK, because Gandalf is one of the progressive ones.

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Yadda

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Re: local Muslim celebrates ANZAC day
Reply #1 - Apr 25^th, 2014 at 12:23pm

ANZAC day ?

ISLAM's peace and respect, Aussie bro!!!!!

text at the YT page....
Quote:

An Adelaide Islamic preacher is under police investigation after he was filmed calling for all Buddhists and Hindus to be killed.

Detectives are examining the sermon given by Sheikh Sharif Hussein, who has previously been visited by the intelligence services, in which he described Australian soldiers as "Crusader pigs".

Adelaide mosque preacher Sheikh Sharif Hussein directs fury at.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0FcYCqo41Y

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Melanias purse

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Re: local Muslim celebrates ANZAC day
Reply #2 - Apr 25^th, 2014 at 1:43pm

freediver wrote on Apr 25^th, 2014 at 11:55am:

lest we forget...

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 25^th, 2014 at 11:38am:

freediver wrote on Apr 25^th, 2014 at 9:37am:

All the wars we have fought, and the people who have died to protect our freedom, are a figment of my imagination, a caricature of our past.

Correct.

Or I should clarify - many people may have died thinking they were protecting our freedom, but they were as deluded as you are. The reality is, every man and woman who has died fighting in Australia's wars died in the name of protecting either British or American economic hegemony.

The sad truth is - engaging ourselves in unnecessary wars of aggression threatens our freedoms, not protects them.

It's OK, because Gandalf is one of the progressive ones.

That’s strange. I’m sure I recall a certain poster in 2007 saying that our invasions of Iraq, Afghanistan, etc, put us at a greater risk of terrorism.

Not to mention the risk of death if you’re a soldier.

Perhaps I should start up a thread with this poster’s quotes.

Happy Anzac Day, FD. Are you having a party to celebrate?

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freediver

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Re: local Muslim celebrates ANZAC day
Reply #3 - Apr 25^th, 2014 at 2:34pm

I was never happy about invading Iraq. I'm still not, though if democracy takes hold there too it will be a victory.

But you'll struggle to find any post by me claiming we should not have gone into Afghanistan or that it increased the risk of terrorism. If you do, post it up and I'll take it back for you.

The more things change, the more they stay the same.

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Yadda

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Re: local Muslim celebrates ANZAC day
Reply #4 - Apr 25^th, 2014 at 5:59pm

freediver wrote on Apr 25^th, 2014 at 2:34pm:

I was never happy about invading Iraq. I'm still not, though if democracy takes hold there too it will be a victory.

I do not believe that what we know as 'democracy' can 'take hold' in Iraq.

Democracy [and the societal peace stability] that it offers a people, can only succeed among people who agree with the principles of truth and justice and self sacrifice.

Quote:

But you'll struggle to find any post by me claiming we should not have gone into Afghanistan or that it increased the risk of terrorism. If you do, post it up and I'll take it back for you.

The more things change, the more they stay the same.

Western hemisphere nations should not involve themselves in the political intrigues that are always present in ISLAMIC dominated cultures.

Punish them [or any other nation], if they [seek to] harm us [and/or seek to destroy our peace].

But otherwise, let moslem societies 'stew in their own juices'.

Nothing to do with us.

Moslems have their pride, and their honour, to sustain themselves with.

Moslem 'luminaries' and cultural spokesmen, regularly insist that their moslem societies/culture is inherently superior to the political systems in the West, so let them prove it so.

Arms length from us.

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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polite_gandalf

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Re: local Muslim celebrates ANZAC day
Reply #5 - Apr 25^th, 2014 at 10:38pm

Whats wrong FD - do you have to swallow the "they fought for our freeeeeeedum" schtick before you're allowed to commemorate Anzac day?

I haven't seen that rule before.

Anzac day was originally for the Gallipoli landings. Is there actually anyone who seriously believes our invasion of Turkey on the other side of the world on behalf of the British Empire was a noble freedom-loving cause?

For the record I have the greatest respect for our soldiers who risk life and limb fighting with and for their mates - which as any soldier will tell you is what the fight is about for them - fighting for their mates. I also appreciate them being there to protect us if ever the need arises.

Our vets deserve our commemoration for being ordered off to risk their lives and the severe mental trauma that all of them suffer as a result. For the individuals involved, it doesn't matter to me that they weren't fighting for our freedom - their deeds were no less brave and no less worthy of recognition.

This was a cheap shot FD - a cynical tugging at this country's emotional heart strings in order to drive a deliberate wedge in our community and fan the flames of hatred. You don't have a damn clue about what Anzac day means to me personally, and what my family has been through and contributed in our wars. To you I'm just a faceless freedom-hating muslim who is a complete alien to our culture and Anzac spirit. My thoughts about why our political elite committed our troops to wars over the years has absolutely nothing to do with how I think the veterans themselves should be treated and remembered - and trying to connect the two in this offensive way is about the lowest you have ever been FD.

Using Anzac day to attempt to drive a wedge in our society - can't get much lower than that.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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Melanias purse

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Re: local Muslim celebrates ANZAC day
Reply #6 - Apr 26^th, 2014 at 8:00pm

freediver wrote on Apr 25^th, 2014 at 2:34pm:

I was never happy about invading Iraq. I'm still not, though if democracy takes hold there too it will be a victory.

But you'll struggle to find any post by me claiming we should not have gone into Afghanistan or that it increased the risk of terrorism. If you do, post it up and I'll take it back for you.

True, FD. You used the more generic "occupation" of Muslim countries. And you described incidents of Islamic terrorism as a defensive response.

Funny how some things change, though isn’t it?

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freediver

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Re: local Muslim celebrates ANZAC day
Reply #7 - Apr 27^th, 2014 at 8:24am

Quote:

For the individuals involved, it doesn't matter to me that they weren't fighting for our freedom

Of course not, because it means nothing to you. You can't even see how the world would be different if the Nazis and Japanese had won.

Quote:

This was a cheap shot FD - a cynical tugging at this country's emotional heart strings in order to drive a deliberate wedge in our community and fan the flames of hatred.

It was a stupid claim by you, and particularly ironic that you came out with this crap on ANZAC day. If people hate Islam, it is not because of 'cheap shots', but because of the campaign against freedom and democracy by Muslims. It is because of the things that Muslims like you say, the weasel words you offer in pretend support of the rights and freedoms that men have died for.

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You don't have a damn clue about what Anzac day means to me personally

I know that to you it is nothing about freedom and democracy, because you don't care particularly that the Nazis lost.

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and what my family has been through and contributed in our wars

You probably bring great shame to them.

Quote:

To you I'm just a faceless freedom-hating muslim

You don't hate it. You are a progressive Muslim. You are merely indifferent to it, and offer your limp-wristed support to it, provided it costs you nothing, in an effort to fit in and appear normal. In fact you have made a mantra of normalcy, and you trot it out regularly.

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who is a complete alien to our culture and Anzac spirit

Tell me about your ANZAC spirit Gandalf.

Quote:

My thoughts about why our political elite committed our troops to wars over the years has absolutely nothing to do with how I think the veterans themselves should be treated and remembered

As deluded? You may take our lives, but you'll never take our economic hegemony!

Quote:

and trying to connect the two in this offensive way is about the lowest you have ever been FD

Yet this is exactly how you celebrated ANZAC day Gandalf - by describing our troops as deluded and saying it would make no difference to you if the Nazis and Japanese had won.

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polite_gandalf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20027 Canberra Gender:	Re: local Muslim celebrates ANZAC day Reply #8 - Apr 27^th, 2014 at 8:55am So in answer to my question FD which you couldn't quite bring yourself to answer directly, clearly you do need to swallow the "they fought for our freeeeeeedum" schtick before you are allowed to commemorate Anzac day. Gotcha.
Back to top	A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said: Quote: Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms. IP Logged

polite_gandalf

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Re: local Muslim celebrates ANZAC day
Reply #9 - Apr 27^th, 2014 at 9:26am

freediver wrote on Apr 27^th, 2014 at 8:24am:

It was a stupid claim by you, and particularly ironic that you came out with this crap on ANZAC day.

Ooh yes how outrageous of me to answer your offensive slurs because it just happens to fall on Anzac day. You are feigning outrage here FD in a cynical bid to appeal to our ever-increasing jingoistic attitude towards Anzac day. You know deep down that there is nothing inherently 'islamic' about my views here, and I think in your most sober moments you probably agree that your 'fight them on the beaches' meme is a load of hogwash. You've never actually presented anything to counter my position - and in fact every time I refute your arguments - such as proving to you that the US has been intent on quashing democracy at every step during the cold war, or highlighting the stifling economic situation that the aggressors found themselves in before WWII - you concede and offer nothing to counteract. Literally all you can argue with is points that are demonstrably untrue (eg SE Asia was thriving with demcoracy and freedom before the Japanese stepped in) and strawman after strawman (gandalf loves that the NAZIs won the war)

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« Last Edit: Apr 27^th, 2014 at 9:38am by polite_gandalf »

A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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greggerypeccary

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Re: local Muslim celebrates ANZAC day
Reply #10 - Apr 27^th, 2014 at 9:34am

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 27^th, 2014 at 9:26am:

freediver wrote on Apr 27^th, 2014 at 8:24am:

It was a stupid claim by you, and particularly ironic that you came out with this crap on ANZAC day.

Ooh yes how outrageous of me to answer your offensive slurs because it just happens to fall on Anzac day. You are feigning outrage here FD in a cynical bid to appeal to our ever-increasing jingoistic attitude towards Anzac day.

And it gets worse every year.

Next year will be unbearable (100 year anniversary).

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freediver

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Re: local Muslim celebrates ANZAC day
Reply #11 - Apr 27^th, 2014 at 9:47am

Quote:

So in answer to my question FD which you couldn't quite bring yourself to answer directly, clearly you do need to swallow the "they fought for our freeeeeeedum" schtick before you are allowed to commemorate Anzac day. Gotcha.

You can commemorate it by burning the Australian flag, lamenting Hitler's demise, and telling everyone how noble Muhammed was in slaughtering 800 Jewish POWs in one day. I'm all about freedom, you see. You got me there.

Quote:

Ooh yes how outrageous of me to answer your offensive slurs because it just happens to fall on Anzac day.

It is ironic, don't you think?

Quote:

You are feigning outrage here FD

You are imagining outrage. To me it is just another Muslim revealing what they really think. I used the term ironic, not outrageous. This is an entirely appropriate term for your post, don't you think? Please try not to pretend I am shaking my fist with rage while posting this.

Quote:

in a cynical bid to appeal to our ever-increasing jingoistic attitude towards Anzac day

Here we go with the cynical use of wishy washy western liberal morals to attack Islam crap. If you are going to sprout this BS, you should not be so afraid to follow through.

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You know deep down that there is nothing inherently 'islamic' about my views here

Yes there is. To you, freedom and democracy are nothing more than "wish washy western liberal morals" that people cynically use to attack Islam. You have to undermine these values at every opportunity, because they make Islam look so bad.

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and I think in your most sober moments you probably agree that your 'fight them on the beaches' meme is a load of hogwash

Can you please look up meme in the dictionary. Or just use a more appropriate term, like narrative. I cringe every time I see you post this, and I fear it is my fault for introducing you to the term.

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You've never actually presented anything to counter my position

I have asked you to explain how we were all really fighting for economic hegemony, yet neither the troops nor the leaders knew this.

Quote:

such as proving to you that the US has been intent on quashing democracy at every step during the cold war

You have not proven this.

Quote:

Literally all you can argue with is points that are demonstrably untrue (eg SE Asia was thriving with demcoracy and freedom before the Japanese stepped in)

Quote me.

Quote:

and strawman after strawman

Hypocrite.

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polite_gandalf

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Re: local Muslim celebrates ANZAC day
Reply #12 - Apr 27^th, 2014 at 11:14am

freediver wrote on Apr 27^th, 2014 at 9:47am:

You are imagining outrage. To me it is just another Muslim revealing what they really think. I used the term ironic, not outrageous. This is an entirely appropriate term for your post, don't you think? Please try not to pretend I am shaking my fist with rage while posting this.

The title of this thread was obviously intended to push some particular buttons - mostly mine I suspect. But keep pretending it wasn't, you're the one looking ridiculous with these deliberately divisive and personal tactics.

freediver wrote on Apr 27^th, 2014 at 9:47am:

Here we go with the cynical use of wishy washy western liberal morals to attack Islam crap.

No, there is nothing 'western liberal' about dog whistling to a dark and increasingly militant jingoism - wishy washy or otherwise.

freediver wrote on Apr 27^th, 2014 at 9:47am:

To you, freedom and democracy are nothing more than "wish washy western liberal morals" that people cynically use to attack Islam. You have to undermine these values at every opportunity, because they make Islam look so bad.

You are the only one undermining our values FD - by this obscene wedge campaign to demonize anyone who dares suggest that our wars weren't about defending freedom and democracy as these most vulgar freedom-hating muslims. And to accuse anyone of holding such a view of commemorating Anzac day by burning flags and lamenting Hitler's demise. Its not just offensive - its supremely hypocrtical coming from someone who accuses these people of undermining "Australian values".

freediver wrote on Apr 27^th, 2014 at 9:47am:

Can you please look up meme in the dictionary.

OK:

a cultural item that is transmitted by repetition and replication in a manner analogous to the biological transmission of genes.

Fits the bill perfectly. Its a particularly virulent cultural item that is repeated and replicated ad-nauseum.

freediver wrote on Apr 27^th, 2014 at 9:47am:

You have not proven this.

America spent the entire cold war quashing democracy - especially in South America. When I pointed this out you replied by saying you concede it was "sporadic" - which is about the closest thing we'll ever get to an admission that you were wrong. The reality that you cannot refute is that Nicuragua and Iran were the norm not the exception.

freediver wrote on Apr 27^th, 2014 at 9:47am:

Quote:
Literally all you can argue with is points that are demonstrably untrue (eg SE Asia was thriving with demcoracy and freedom before the Japanese stepped in)

Quote me.

When I pointed out that SE Asia was occupied by un-free and undemocratic European occupations, you retorted with this:

Quote:

Of course. You cannot tell the difference between the freedom and democracy of the western world with the oppressive dictatorships that Japan and Germany attempted to replace it with.

Perhaps you meant to say "you cannot tell the difference between oppressive occupation by the western world and oppressive occupation by the Japanese" - to which I would plead guilty as charged.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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freediver

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Re: local Muslim celebrates ANZAC day
Reply #13 - Apr 27^th, 2014 at 1:57pm

Quote:

The title of this thread was obviously intended to push some particular buttons

Either that, or to highlight the irony of a progressive Muslim calling our troops deluded stooges on ANZAC day.

Quote:

mostly mine I suspect

Oh? I didn't realise ANZAC day was particularly special for Muslims. The turks maybe. What buttons am I pushing?

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But keep pretending it wasn't, you're the one looking ridiculous with these deliberately divisive and personal tactics.

Yes I can see how this looks bad for me. You left out bigoted, BTW.

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No, there is nothing 'western liberal' about dog whistling to a dark and increasingly militant jingoism - wishy washy or otherwise.

If you truly believed this, wouldn't you think twice about calling our troops deluded stooges on ANZAC day?

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You are the only one undermining our values FD - by this obscene wedge campaign to demonize anyone who dares suggest that our wars weren't about defending freedom and democracy as these most vulgar freedom-hating muslims.

They are your own words, Gandalf. Not mine. I was merely quoting you. On ANZAC day.

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And to accuse anyone of holding such a view of commemorating Anzac day by burning flags and lamenting Hitler's demise. Its not just offensive - its supremely hypocrtical coming from someone who accuses these people of undermining "Australian values".

I didn't accuse you of it, I said you are free to do so, after you insisted you had 'gotten me' on the issue of whether you are permitted to hold your backwards opinions while celebrating ANZAC day.

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America spent the entire cold war quashing democracy - especially in South America. When I pointed this out you replied by saying you concede it was "sporadic" - which is about the closest thing we'll ever get to an admission that you were wrong.

How is this proof that the intention was to quash democracy?

Quote:

When I pointed out that SE Asia was occupied by un-free and undemocratic European occupations, you retorted with this: the freedom and democracy of the western world

I see. By 'the western world' I obviously meant SE Asia. You still have not clarified whether English is your second language.

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Melanias purse Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 101293	Re: local Muslim celebrates ANZAC day Reply #14 - Apr 27^th, 2014 at 2:55pm On ANZAC Day? Oh, my. How terrible. Don’t put that in the Wiki, FD. A poor veteran or his family might come across it. Mind you, you do keep repeating it so.
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