Australian Politics Forum - BER's official failure

mantra

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Re: BER's official failure
Reply #30 - Apr 2^nd, 2014 at 9:17am

1Aussie wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2014 at 9:13am:

BER was not an education programme. It was meant to be an economic stimulus and response to the GFC. I don't know of too many Schools who are whingeing about new infrastructure, either.

Few of them ever did whinge much because the buildings added revenue to their meagre budgets. The Coalition, in opposition at the time, did most of the whinging, backed up by Murdoch. Great hatchet job.

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Grendel

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Re: BER's official failure
Reply #31 - Apr 2^nd, 2014 at 11:24am

mantra wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2014 at 8:21am:

Grendel wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2014 at 8:06am:

Posting more biased rubbish I see mantra.

The Labor government renegged on their policy of 1 computer per pupil... pretty simple really.
The building of colas when other buildings were required etc was a complete waste of money. Our money.

There might have been some waste, but ever tried building a house or an extension?

yes several actually..

This was a national scheme and of course there were going to be some problems.

Many public schools looked spruced up and cared for after completion of their projects - something I haven't seen in my lifetime.

been walking around blind then I suspect.

Quote:

More anti-Abbott crap and hate as usual.
Donelly is very well credentialled.

By whose standards? Abbott's?

By any rational persons standards

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Grendel

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Re: BER's official failure
Reply #32 - Apr 2^nd, 2014 at 11:26am

mantra wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2014 at 9:17am:

1Aussie wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2014 at 9:13am:

BER was not an education programme. It was meant to be an economic stimulus and response to the GFC. I don't know of too many Schools who are whingeing about new infrastructure, either.

Few of them ever did whinge much because the buildings added revenue to their meagre budgets. The Coalition, in opposition at the time, did most of the whinging, backed up by Murdoch. Great hatchet job.

You should listen to more talkback then... in just Sydney, day after day, there were principals discussing the waste and their schools real needs as opposed to getting a cola Cheesy

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Bread and Butter

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Re: BER's official failure
Reply #33 - Apr 2^nd, 2014 at 12:31pm

mantra wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2014 at 8:21am:

Grendel wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2014 at 8:06am:

Posting more biased rubbish I see mantra.

The Labor government renegged on their policy of 1 computer per pupil... pretty simple really.
The building of colas when other buildings were required etc was a complete waste of money. Our money.

There might have been some waste, but ever tried building a house or an extension? This was a national scheme and of course there were going to be some problems.

Many public schools looked spruced up and cared for after completion of their projects - something I haven't seen in my lifetime.

Quote:

More anti-Abbott crap and hate as usual.
Donelly is very well credentialled.

By whose standards? Abbott's?

I have built a house and when I hear of $650,000 bills to construct a canteen the size of a single carport without airconditioning and any fittings I wonder if YOU have or know anyone who has. At that price, my house would have cost $5M instead of the $250K that it did.

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Bread and Butter

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Re: BER's official failure
Reply #34 - Apr 2^nd, 2014 at 12:33pm

Aussie wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2014 at 9:13am:

BER was not an education programme. It was meant to be an economic stimulus and response to the GFC. I don't know of too many Schools who are whingeing about new infrastructure, either.

Globally, the stimulus programs have led to unbeleivable levels of waste as things are built that aren't needed or area unsuitable. The BER was no exception. No hospitals were built and no massive road or water infrastructure building either. Why not? Largely because that chronic buffoon, Rudd, didn't think of it and unless her personally thought of an idea, it didn't happen.

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mantra

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Re: BER's official failure
Reply #35 - Apr 2^nd, 2014 at 1:16pm

Bread and Butter wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2014 at 12:31pm:

I have built a house and when I hear of $650,000 bills to construct a canteen the size of a single carport without airconditioning and any fittings I wonder if YOU have or know anyone who has. At that price, my house would have cost $5M instead of the $250K that it did.

Link please - otherwise I'll consider your comment more of your misinformation and lump it into the Coalition propaganda basket.

More facts and less personal insults might gain you a little bit of credibility, but I doubt it.

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Aussie

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Re: BER's official failure
Reply #36 - Apr 2^nd, 2014 at 1:58pm

mantra wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2014 at 1:16pm:

Bread and Butter wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2014 at 12:31pm:

I have built a house and when I hear of $650,000 bills to construct a canteen the size of a single carport without airconditioning and any fittings I wonder if YOU have or know anyone who has. At that price, my house would have cost $5M instead of the $250K that it did.

Link please - otherwise I'll consider your comment more of your misinformation and lump it into the Coalition propaganda basket.

More facts and less personal insults might gain you a little bit of credibility, but I doubt it.

It happened mantra.

Click here.

There were rip offs, and the whingers use them to attack the successes of BER.

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« Last Edit: Apr 2^nd, 2014 at 2:14pm by Aussie »

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Grendel

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Re: BER's official failure
Reply #37 - Apr 2^nd, 2014 at 2:19pm

Aussie wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2014 at 1:58pm:

mantra wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2014 at 1:16pm:

Bread and Butter wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2014 at 12:31pm:

I have built a house and when I hear of $650,000 bills to construct a canteen the size of a single carport without airconditioning and any fittings I wonder if YOU have or know anyone who has. At that price, my house would have cost $5M instead of the $250K that it did.

Link please - otherwise I'll consider your comment more of your misinformation and lump it into the Coalition propaganda basket.

More facts and less personal insults might gain you a little bit of credibility, but I doubt it.

It happened mantra.

Click here.

There were rip offs, and the whingers use them to attack the successes of BER.

No... people with knowledge use them to point out it failings.
Nice link BTW and here you've been pretending you can't google to protect your own life all these years Cheesy

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Aussie

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Re: BER's official failure
Reply #38 - Apr 2^nd, 2014 at 2:26pm

Grendel wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2014 at 2:19pm:

Aussie wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2014 at 1:58pm:

mantra wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2014 at 1:16pm:

Bread and Butter wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2014 at 12:31pm:

I have built a house and when I hear of $650,000 bills to construct a canteen the size of a single carport without airconditioning and any fittings I wonder if YOU have or know anyone who has. At that price, my house would have cost $5M instead of the $250K that it did.

Link please - otherwise I'll consider your comment more of your misinformation and lump it into the Coalition propaganda basket.

More facts and less personal insults might gain you a little bit of credibility, but I doubt it.

It happened mantra.

Click here.

There were rip offs, and the whingers use them to attack the successes of BER.

No... people with knowledge use them to point out it failings.
Nice link BTW and here you've been pretending you can't google to protect your own life all these years Cheesy

I don't recall ever making a claim that I do not know where to find google. Others make the allegation. I just let them believe whatever they want.

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Grendel

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Re: BER's official failure
Reply #39 - Apr 2^nd, 2014 at 2:29pm

Aussie wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2014 at 2:26pm:

Grendel wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2014 at 2:19pm:

Aussie wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2014 at 1:58pm:

mantra wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2014 at 1:16pm:

Bread and Butter wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2014 at 12:31pm:

I have built a house and when I hear of $650,000 bills to construct a canteen the size of a single carport without airconditioning and any fittings I wonder if YOU have or know anyone who has. At that price, my house would have cost $5M instead of the $250K that it did.

Link please - otherwise I'll consider your comment more of your misinformation and lump it into the Coalition propaganda basket.

More facts and less personal insults might gain you a little bit of credibility, but I doubt it.

It happened mantra.

Click here.

There were rip offs, and the whingers use them to attack the successes of BER.

No... people with knowledge use them to point out it failings.
Nice link BTW and here you've been pretending you can't google to protect your own life all these years Cheesy

I don't recall ever making a claim that I do not know where to find google. Others make the allegation. I just let them believe whatever they want.

Oh ok... I guess that's why you insist on others doing your research for you and posting links etc, etc, etc... I always thought you were just too lazy to lift a finger, and here you've actually done it. Cheesy

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mantra

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Re: BER's official failure
Reply #40 - Apr 2^nd, 2014 at 2:35pm

Aussie wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2014 at 1:58pm:

It happened mantra.

Click here.

There were rip offs, and the whingers use them to attack the successes of BER.

Thanks Aussie. The amount of bad publicity about the scheme obviously outweighed the good it did to so many schools.

I can't honestly say that I was impressed overall with this scheme, but I'm still less disgruntled with Labor's efforts than I am with the previous Coalition and their never-ending porkbarrelling to those who didn't need it, removing workers' rights and the brutality and extravagance of their illegal wars. We're going down the same path again, but there are signs that it's going to be worse.

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Sprintcyclist

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Re: BER's official failure
Reply #41 - Apr 2^nd, 2014 at 2:35pm

Quote:

AT Toomelah, on the NSW-Queensland border, dogs and emus wander aimlessly along streets littered with broken glass in an indigenous community plagued by alcohol, violence and teenage pregnancies.
But while life at the former mission town has improved since former judge Marcus Einfeld visited in 1987 and wept at the appalling conditions, community leaders are bemoaning a lost opportunity to turn around the fortunes of Toomelah.

When The Weekend Australian visited the town yesterday, elders and community leaders were frustrated that federal funding, which could have been used to create job opportunities, was squandered on a school tuckshop under the government's Building the Education Revolution scheme.

The cubbyhouse-sized canteen, measuring 8m by 3m, was built at Toomelah Public School for $650,000, while a three-bedroom home in nearby Boggabilla, in northwest NSW, is listed for sale at a fraction of the price: $119,000.

The McGrady family's four-bedroom home in Toomelah, one of several built under the $240million Aboriginal Communities Development Program, came in at under $500,000 and includes a bathroom, laundry and balcony.

Aboriginal elder Reg Haines said although the ACDP was criticised for being a waste of funds, it did not compare with the BER.

"If that's called a rip-off, what do you call this?" he said.

"$650,000 is a lot of money, they could have fixed (the community hall) . . . or done something about jobs."

Over at the town store, Denis Dennison said the money should have been invested in sporting facilities to lure bored students away from drugs and alcohol, while resident Malcolm Peckham said a saltwater swimming pool was needed to improve children's health.

Toomelah Co-operative manager and spokesperson for the community's working party Rene Adams said: "We could have put that (BER) money in to raise the self-confidence and self-esteem and the community pride."

Quote:

Aboriginal elder Reg Haines in front of the Toomelah Public School's $650,000 canteen yesterday. Picture: Liam Kidston Source: The Australian

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/nation/canteen-a-lost-chance-for-community/...

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Modern Classic Right Wing

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Grendel Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 28080 Gender:	Re: BER's official failure Reply #42 - Apr 2^nd, 2014 at 2:36pm Impressed?
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mantra Gold Member Offline ozpolitic.com Posts: 10750 Gender:	Re: BER's official failure Reply #43 - Apr 2^nd, 2014 at 2:40pm We don't know whether the builders eventually rectified or did additional work under a barrage of bad publicity. Pity there wasn't a follow up report on further improvements made to the school after this canteen issue.
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Grendel

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Re: BER's official failure
Reply #44 - Apr 2^nd, 2014 at 3:02pm

We all know how political the Teacher's Union is right...

Quote:

A survey of 300 members by the Public School Principals Forum, released in August, found 60 per cent of NSW public school principals considered they had not got value for money under the BER.

A similar survey of 2400 principals conducted by the Australian Primary Principals Association, found just 57 per cent of public school principals were satisfied with the scheme. Teachers groups have repeatedly warned many school principals have not spoken out publicly about their concerns with the BER for fear of reprisal.

Quote:

In May last year NSW Teachers Federation president Gary Zadkovich told a senate inquiry into the BER that school principals who had spoken out against the scheme were pressured into silence and told they were required to be positive advocates for public education. "Principals who spoke out about the program were pursued by department officers and pressured into silence by use of the department's code of conduct," Zadkovich told the inquiry.

According to the Orgill inquiry, official complaints have been received from about 150 NSW public schools, about 7 per cent of NSW public schools. Again, in contrast, a survey by NSW Auditor-General Peter Achterstraat released in early December found only 41 per cent of principals thought their BER project gave value for money.

Quote:

The Public Schools Principals Forum survey released in August found more than a third of NSW public school principals said they had received a building under the BER that was not one of their top four preferences. Of all respondents, 36 per cent their preferences for BER building types were "substantially ignored".

Quote:

While praising the speed with which the NSW government delivered the BER, Orgill report says the government is not delivering value for money for its schools.

It further says the NSW government has used an "overly expensive and sophisticated delivery approach to deliver relatively simple, small and medium size projects". "The taskforce has serious concerns as to the NSW government's capacity to ensure full and rigorous control of costs as school projects are completed and contracts closed out," it says.

Besides the federal government's apparent failure to acknowledge the extent of problems with the BER, perhaps the biggest concern is the NSW government's flat refusal to even accept many findings of the report.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/features/busting-the-many-ber-myths/story-e...

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