Australian Politics Forum - The rise and Fall of Julia Gillard

John Smith

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Re: The rise and Fall of Julia Gillard
Reply #30 - Mar 29^th, 2014 at 8:53am

Grendel wrote on Mar 29^th, 2014 at 8:51am:

John Smith wrote on Mar 29^th, 2014 at 8:47am:

Grendel wrote on Mar 29^th, 2014 at 8:43am:

what's that got to do with you being personally and politically biased? Oh right just trying to deflect... too late you are all over this site

my bias, peceived ot otherwise, does not make Abbott any more or less honest. The man is a proven liar and anyone claiming he is still essentially honest and trustworthy has rocks in their head.

Grendel wrote on Mar 29^th, 2014 at 8:43am:

I think Gonski will eventually be Gonski so to speak

despite Abbotts many assurances that Gonski would stay. ... yeah, real honest isn't he Cheesy

You keep proving me right about you ... thanks Grin

Oh and look who's lying now Cheesy

good of you to finally admit that even you cannot deny the truth

white flag accepted

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Andrei.Hicks Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 23818 Carlsbad, CA Gender:	Re: The rise and Fall of Julia Gillard Reply #31 - Mar 29^th, 2014 at 8:55am Made a bit of a habit of this promising lark didn't she?.... "My commitment to an Australian surplus in 2013 was a promise that we made and it will be honoured. Let me be absolutely clear on that" Julia Gillard, April 2011. Australian Budget result 2013 - $23,488,000,000 DEFICIT
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Bread and Butter

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Re: The rise and Fall of Julia Gillard
Reply #32 - Mar 29^th, 2014 at 8:57am

John Smith wrote on Mar 29^th, 2014 at 8:35am:

Grendel wrote on Mar 29^th, 2014 at 8:33am:

John Smith wrote on Mar 29^th, 2014 at 8:32am:

Bread and Butter wrote on Mar 29^th, 2014 at 8:26am:

I had no alternative but to move my vote to Tony Abbott who, despite his many failings, is still essentially honest and trustworthy

cracked me up ......

Not biased personally or politically much???? Grin

that doesn't make the comment any less true

tell me mister honesty, whats happened with Gonski? Cheesy

Gonski will probably never happen but it probably never was. You may be unaware of this, but out in teacher-land, Gonski was not all that popular. It looked like yet another idea of throwing more cash at a problem that isn't fixable by cash. Education in the public sphere is terminally ill and needs to be fixed not by more cash but by a radical transformation of the entire edifice. Look at private schools and how they operate with engaged teachers, engaged parents, engaged students and high outcomes. Many of them operate on less per-student funding that public schools. The results are brought about by a structure put in place to support education, not whatever ultra-left-wing agenda the Education Union supports or the high-paid super-wasteful political correctness of the various Education Departments.

Breaking the Gonski promise is not a concern to many who see it as a bandaid solution to a terminal illness. Not that I expect Abbott to fix it, but at least not waste billions more for no outcome.

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____

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Re: The rise and Fall of Julia Gillard
Reply #33 - Mar 29^th, 2014 at 8:57am

Bread and Butter wrote on Mar 29^th, 2014 at 8:51am:

____ wrote on Mar 29^th, 2014 at 8:31am:

John Smith wrote on Mar 29^th, 2014 at 8:29am:

____ wrote on Mar 29^th, 2014 at 8:19am:

John Smith wrote on Mar 29^th, 2014 at 8:15am:

____ wrote on Mar 29^th, 2014 at 8:06am:

Phil, you still trying to blame everyone else besides the party that stuffed up ~ labor.

Labor couldn't sell a free pass to a brothel ... even to Craig Thompson.

http://skreened.com/render-product/w/q/e/wqerdaxudoummpqbaiam/head-up-ass-shirt....

All you can offer is a cut and paste of another's pic. You sir are a microcosm of your party's problem.

My party hasn't got a problem .. it can't have ...... I don't belong to any party Cheesy

Then Labor

And Bread and Butter, the damage Gillard has done for women is still ignored. It will be a long time before either old party put up a women as leader and next PM.

And thats a shame.

That is correct. Gillard has damaged the stance of women in politics rather badly. Not that Christine Milne is doing the gender any favours. Nor did the endless succession of light-weight Democrat female leaders.

Brains have to be melded with the ability to communication better with the lay voters. Once Christine achieves this then her message will be more effective.

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John Smith

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Re: The rise and Fall of Julia Gillard
Reply #34 - Mar 29^th, 2014 at 8:58am

Bread and Butter wrote on Mar 29^th, 2014 at 8:49am:

John Smith wrote on Mar 29^th, 2014 at 8:30am:

Grendel wrote on Mar 29^th, 2014 at 8:24am:

John Smith wrote on Mar 29^th, 2014 at 8:18am:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Mar 29^th, 2014 at 8:11am:

Bam wrote on Mar 29^th, 2014 at 7:49am:

Gillard's main problem was lacking sufficient numbers in Parliament and the political capital to implement the reforms she needed to advance her agenda.

If she had the numbers, she would not have implemented a fixed carbon price but implemented an ETS instead. She would have negotiated with the Greens in the Senate to get an ETS in place. The Greens were the problem here; they blocked an ETS in 2009 because they wanted a fixed price. It is the Greens' insistence on a fixed price that gave Abbott the leverage to smear Gillard and drag her down. It is therefore the fault of the Greens that Abbott is in office now.

If she had the political capital, she could have advanced some reforms to raise revenue or cut spending to balance the budget. For instance, abolishing negative gearing would not have been very popular, but it is a necessary reform that is needed at some point to stop the budget leaking revenue.

She was the one who ran the election campaign.
She didn't have the numbers because people didn't warm to her and people didn't appreciate her knifing the sitting Australian PM in the back.

She didn't have the numbers correct.
But it is nobody else's fault than her own.

what a load of croc ... she ran the election campaign to win ... any promises made were made on the basis of her being able to form a labor government .. with the results she was dealt with, she had to form a coalition government with the Greens and Independants

not sure if you understand that that means there are compromises that have to be made by all sides. I would have preferred she went directly to an ETS but I understand why she couldn't.

She promised NO CARBON TAX
She promised no price on carbon without national concensus.
She didn't have to agree to a carbon tax for Green support.
She betrayed the electorate and broke her promises.
After that the bats were out.

All those promises were made on the basis of a LABOR government winning office. A labor government did not win office, at least not in its own right ... it was a coalition government that won office

That is the kind of transparent lie and excuse for promise-breaking that gives all pollies a bad name. There wasn't even an attempt by Julia to try and keep her promise which implies she never really intended to keep it in the first place.

She could have dared the Greens to support Abbott and force an election that would decimate them both.

For a lie to be a lie it must be deliberate and intend to deceive the person being told the lie ... since there was no way Gillard could have known the election would have finished in a hung parliament, there clearly was no intention to deceive. It was a change in circumstances that she was forced to deal with. At best you can call it a broken promise.

I suggest you get over it and move on .... like you've never had to change your position on something when your circumstances changed.

As for your sencond point about going to an election ... wake up to the real world and leave the idealism for the greens ... poli's are generally very driven, high achievers who spend their whole career tring to get to the top job, with maybe 1% of poli's ever actually making it. If you expect her to walk away from that then you're in denial

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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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John Smith Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 77109 Gender:	Re: The rise and Fall of Julia Gillard Reply #35 - Mar 29^th, 2014 at 9:00am Bread and Butter wrote on Mar 29^th, 2014 at 8:57am: Breaking the Gonski promise is not a concern to many so they are only liars if the lie is something you disagree with?
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John Smith

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Re: The rise and Fall of Julia Gillard
Reply #36 - Mar 29^th, 2014 at 9:02am

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Mar 29^th, 2014 at 8:55am:

Made a bit of a habit of this promising lark didn't she?....

"My commitment to an Australian surplus in 2013 was a promise that we made and it will be honoured. Let me be absolutely clear on that"

Julia Gillard, April 2011.

Australian Budget result 2013 - $23,488,000,000 DEFICIT

not sure why you repeatedly throw the same thing in all the time, no matter what the topic as if it has any relevance ... what are you a one trick pony?

If you've nothing to add, don't comment

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Bread and Butter

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Re: The rise and Fall of Julia Gillard
Reply #37 - Mar 29^th, 2014 at 9:02am

John Smith wrote on Mar 29^th, 2014 at 8:47am:

Grendel wrote on Mar 29^th, 2014 at 8:43am:

what's that got to do with you being personally and politically biased? Oh right just trying to deflect... too late you are all over this site

my bias, peceived ot otherwise, does not make Abbott any more or less honest. The man is a proven liar and anyone claiming he is still essentially honest and trustworthy has rocks in their head.

Grendel wrote on Mar 29^th, 2014 at 8:43am:

I think Gonski will eventually be Gonski so to speak

despite Abbotts many assurances that Gonski would stay. ... yeah, real honest isn't he Cheesy

The reasons I said he was essentially honest is because he is. The office of PM involves a great deal more compromise and decision making that whatever job you have. It will be inevitable to change policies that are cast in stone. Hawke broke many promises but I still considered him trustworthy because he didn't set out to simply break promises or cast them about carelessly. Gillard did just that. Abbott so far has indicated an intent to do the right thing.

The pollie-standard of lying is a little different than for the rest of us with our small lives and small responsibilities. I look for a leader whose intent is to be just that - honest and trustworthy, even if in practice that is not always the case.

Hawke & Howard were essentially honest. Keating was too arrogant although very capable. Rudd has no positions on anything at all and Gillard was possibly the most lying PM in my memory.

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Andrei.Hicks Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 23818 Carlsbad, CA Gender:	Re: The rise and Fall of Julia Gillard Reply #38 - Mar 29^th, 2014 at 9:03am Pointing out she promised several things and never delivered is not relevant. Want to declare a pro-Gillard position by the way John?? In the interest of objectivity and all....
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Andrei.Hicks Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 23818 Carlsbad, CA Gender:	Re: The rise and Fall of Julia Gillard Reply #39 - Mar 29^th, 2014 at 9:04am She promised no carbon tax. We got one. She promised a 2013 surplus. We got a deficit. Good wasn't she?!
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Bread and Butter

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Re: The rise and Fall of Julia Gillard
Reply #40 - Mar 29^th, 2014 at 9:05am

____ wrote on Mar 29^th, 2014 at 8:57am:

Bread and Butter wrote on Mar 29^th, 2014 at 8:51am:

____ wrote on Mar 29^th, 2014 at 8:31am:

John Smith wrote on Mar 29^th, 2014 at 8:29am:

____ wrote on Mar 29^th, 2014 at 8:19am:

John Smith wrote on Mar 29^th, 2014 at 8:15am:

____ wrote on Mar 29^th, 2014 at 8:06am:

Phil, you still trying to blame everyone else besides the party that stuffed up ~ labor.

Labor couldn't sell a free pass to a brothel ... even to Craig Thompson.

http://skreened.com/render-product/w/q/e/wqerdaxudoummpqbaiam/head-up-ass-shirt....

All you can offer is a cut and paste of another's pic. You sir are a microcosm of your party's problem.

My party hasn't got a problem .. it can't have ...... I don't belong to any party Cheesy

Then Labor

And Bread and Butter, the damage Gillard has done for women is still ignored. It will be a long time before either old party put up a women as leader and next PM.

And thats a shame.

That is correct. Gillard has damaged the stance of women in politics rather badly. Not that Christine Milne is doing the gender any favours. Nor did the endless succession of light-weight Democrat female leaders.

Brains have to be melded with the ability to communication better with the lay voters. Once Christine achieves this then her message will be more effective.

Sorry to disappoint you, but communications theory also states that your message itself has to have actual value for it to be received and retained long term. Milne is an appalling orator and her message is largely to whine and complain. Obama had 'Yes, we can'. Milne has 'No, we wont.'

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____

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Re: The rise and Fall of Julia Gillard
Reply #41 - Mar 29^th, 2014 at 9:09am

Bread and Butter wrote on Mar 29^th, 2014 at 9:05am:

____ wrote on Mar 29^th, 2014 at 8:57am:

Bread and Butter wrote on Mar 29^th, 2014 at 8:51am:

____ wrote on Mar 29^th, 2014 at 8:31am:

John Smith wrote on Mar 29^th, 2014 at 8:29am:

____ wrote on Mar 29^th, 2014 at 8:19am:

John Smith wrote on Mar 29^th, 2014 at 8:15am:

____ wrote on Mar 29^th, 2014 at 8:06am:

Phil, you still trying to blame everyone else besides the party that stuffed up ~ labor.

Labor couldn't sell a free pass to a brothel ... even to Craig Thompson.

http://skreened.com/render-product/w/q/e/wqerdaxudoummpqbaiam/head-up-ass-shirt....

All you can offer is a cut and paste of another's pic. You sir are a microcosm of your party's problem.

My party hasn't got a problem .. it can't have ...... I don't belong to any party Cheesy

Then Labor

And Bread and Butter, the damage Gillard has done for women is still ignored. It will be a long time before either old party put up a women as leader and next PM.

And thats a shame.

That is correct. Gillard has damaged the stance of women in politics rather badly. Not that Christine Milne is doing the gender any favours. Nor did the endless succession of light-weight Democrat female leaders.

Brains have to be melded with the ability to communication better with the lay voters. Once Christine achieves this then her message will be more effective.

Sorry to disappoint you, but communications theory also states that your message itself has to have actual value for it to be received and retained long term. Milne is an appalling orator and her message is largely to whine and complain. Obama had 'Yes, we can'. Milne has 'No, we wont.'

Yet Greens removed the debt ceiling argument the two olds were playing.

Greens are not Mr Abbott in opposition, opposing everything he could.

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John Smith

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Re: The rise and Fall of Julia Gillard
Reply #42 - Mar 29^th, 2014 at 9:11am

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Mar 29^th, 2014 at 9:03am:

Pointing out she promised several things and never delivered is not relevant.

Want to declare a pro-Gillard position by the way John??
In the interest of objectivity and all....

English not your first language Andrei? My position has been declared amny times .... what are you? slow?

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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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John Smith Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 77109 Gender:	Re: The rise and Fall of Julia Gillard Reply #43 - Mar 29^th, 2014 at 9:14am Bread and Butter wrote on Mar 29^th, 2014 at 9:02am: The office of PM involves a great deal more compromise and decision making that whatever job you have I agree, and add that it applies tenfold in a hung parliament ... pity you can't apply the same standards to all parties evenly
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cods

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Re: The rise and Fall of Julia Gillard
Reply #44 - Mar 29^th, 2014 at 9:42am

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Mar 29^th, 2014 at 8:55am:

Made a bit of a habit of this promising lark didn't she?....

"tMy commitment to an Australian surplus in 2013 was a promise that we made and it will be honoured. Let me be absolutely clear on hat"

Julia Gillard, April 2011.

Australian Budget result 2013 - $23,488,000,000 DEFICIT

no IFS OR BUTS...I think she said it more than once as well.

I know Wayne did..

in fact Wayne was committed to the surplus right up until 24 hours when he said we wouldnt be having one after all.. Grin

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