Australian Politics Forum - Abbott's AGW Drought Package

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Re: Abbott's AGW Drought Package
Reply #30 - Feb 26^th, 2014 at 3:04pm

Swagman wrote on Feb 26^th, 2014 at 10:21am:

St George of the Garden wrote on Feb 26^th, 2014 at 10:16am:

Temps flatlining—what crap!

SA’s heatwave broke a 117 year record and was said by the BoM to be caused by AGW.

....and what caused the previous record temp 117 years ago?

Cow poo maybe?????????

Dodgy thermometer???????????

or maybe someone looking to make a quick buck Wink

Any takers???????????????????????

Beware!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Jesus is coming again in 2014, sorry, he couldn't make it last year or the year before that...............climate change you know..........

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« Last Edit: Feb 26^th, 2014 at 3:11pm by De-registered User »

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St George of the Garden

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Re: Abbott's AGW Drought Package
Reply #31 - Feb 26^th, 2014 at 5:35pm

gizmo_2655 wrote on Feb 26^th, 2014 at 11:40am:

Sadly George, what most of the pro-AGW crowd don't realise ( I hope, at least) is that IF you are successful in returning temperatures to pre-1850's levels, you'd also kill off 1/2 or more likely 3/4 of the world's population. Because the whole AGW idea is based on a false premise, that pre-Industrial Revolution temperatures were 'normal', and they were NOT. The temperatures back then (during the Little Ice Age) were massively below average and below optimum for comfortable human existence.

Chum, temperatures have been rising since the IR. It is therefor vital to stabilise GHG concentrations in the atmosphere and this has become more difficult since the melting of the tundra around the arctic has seen methane clathrates melt and methane, the most fiendish if short term GHG, enter the atmosphere. A tripping point, and more of those to come.

Since fossil fuels are starting to reach their peak production makes it more and more economical to turn to renewable energy. We need all nations to get started on this and Australia shouldn’t bludge on the rest of the world to do the emissions reduction workload.

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cods

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Re: Abbott's AGW Drought Package
Reply #32 - Feb 26^th, 2014 at 5:40pm

De-registered User wrote on Feb 26^th, 2014 at 3:04pm:

Swagman wrote on Feb 26^th, 2014 at 10:21am:

St George of the Garden wrote on Feb 26^th, 2014 at 10:16am:

Temps flatlining—what crap!

SA’s heatwave broke a 117 year record and was said by the BoM to be caused by AGW.

....and what caused the previous record temp 117 years ago?

Cow poo maybe?????????

Dodgy thermometer???????????

or maybe someone looking to make a quick buck Wink

Any takers???????????????????????

Beware!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Jesus is coming again in 2014, sorry, he couldn't make it last year or the year before that...............climate change you know..........

have you noticed... when temperatures go down...no one mentions it.. it definitely doesnt have a thing to do with climate change.... Roll Eyes

..ooops I mean G.W.

maybe industry only affects up temps and not down temps???

if its taken 117 years to break a hot temp?... thats not bad...seeing as Al Gore told us we would be dead and gawn by 2013..... dry as a dessert....a dust bowl. in fact.... all in 5 years...boy was he ever wrong.

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philperth2010 Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 21097 Perth Gender:	Re: Abbott's AGW Drought Package Reply #33 - Feb 26^th, 2014 at 6:39pm http://au.news.yahoo.com/a/20588157/how-australias-hottest-year-on-record-unfold... Quote: The Bureau of Meteorology has confirmed that 2013 was Australia's hottest year since records began in 1910.
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gizmo_2655

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Re: Abbott's AGW Drought Package
Reply #34 - Feb 26^th, 2014 at 7:22pm

St George of the Garden wrote on Feb 26^th, 2014 at 5:35pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Feb 26^th, 2014 at 11:40am:

Sadly George, what most of the pro-AGW crowd don't realise ( I hope, at least) is that IF you are successful in returning temperatures to pre-1850's levels, you'd also kill off 1/2 or more likely 3/4 of the world's population. Because the whole AGW idea is based on a false premise, that pre-Industrial Revolution temperatures were 'normal', and they were NOT. The temperatures back then (during the Little Ice Age) were massively below average and below optimum for comfortable human existence.

Chum, temperatures have been rising since the IR. It is therefor vital to stabilise GHG concentrations in the atmosphere and this has become more difficult since the melting of the tundra around the arctic has seen methane clathrates melt and methane, the most fiendish if short term GHG, enter the atmosphere. A tripping point, and more of those to come.

Since fossil fuels are starting to reach their peak production makes it more and more economical to turn to renewable energy. We need all nations to get started on this and Australia shouldn’t bludge on the rest of the world to do the emissions reduction workload.

And since the IR took place during or just before a 'cold period' (as identified by NASA) is there any reason to be surprised that the temperatures would NATURALLY return to what they were during the Medieval Climate Optimum??

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Fit of Absent Mindeness Gold Member Offline We need more fits of absent mindedness Posts: 1622 Brisbane Gender:	Re: Abbott's AGW Drought Package Reply #35 - Feb 26^th, 2014 at 7:35pm Which is better? Making the world a better place and finding out AGW isn't real. or Not changing anything and finding out it is? What happens if it is real and we haven't done a thing? Do you even care?
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perceptions_now

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Re: Abbott's AGW Drought Package
Reply #36 - Feb 26^th, 2014 at 7:40pm

cods wrote on Feb 26^th, 2014 at 5:40pm:

De-registered User wrote on Feb 26^th, 2014 at 3:04pm:

Swagman wrote on Feb 26^th, 2014 at 10:21am:

St George of the Garden wrote on Feb 26^th, 2014 at 10:16am:

Temps flatlining—what crap!

SA’s heatwave broke a 117 year record and was said by the BoM to be caused by AGW.

....and what caused the previous record temp 117 years ago?

Cow poo maybe?????????

Dodgy thermometer???????????

or maybe someone looking to make a quick buck Wink

Any takers???????????????????????

Beware!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Jesus is coming again in 2014, sorry, he couldn't make it last year or the year before that...............climate change you know..........

have you noticed... when temperatures go down...no one mentions it.. it definitely doesnt have a thing to do with climate change.... ..ooops I mean G.W.

maybe industry only affects up temps and not down temps???

if its taken 117 years to break a hot temp?... thats not bad...seeing as Al Gore told us we would be dead and gawn by 2013..... dry as a dessert....a dust bowl. in fact.... all in 5 years...boy was he ever wrong.

For Your Info, Cods!

perceptions_now wrote on Feb 19^th, 2014 at 1:51pm:

What is the relationship between weather and climate?

Weather is what’s happening outside the door right now; today a snowstorm or a thunderstorm is approaching. Climate, on the other hand, is the pattern of weather measured over decades.

NASA and NOAA plus research centers around the world track the global average temperature, and all conclude that Earth is warming. In fact, the past decade has been found to be the hottest since scientists started recording reliable data in the 1880s. These rising temperatures are caused primarily by an increase of heat-trapping emissions in the atmosphere created when we burn coal, oil, and gas to generate electricity, drive our cars, and fuel our businesses.

Hotter air around the globe causes more moisture to be held in the air than in prior seasons. When storms occur, this added moisture can fuel heavier precipitation in the form of more intense rain or snow.

At the same time, because less of a region’s precipitation is falling in light storms and more of it in heavy storms, the risks of drought and wildfire are also greater. Ironically, higher air temperatures tend to produce intense drought periods punctuated by heavy floods, often in the same region.

These kinds of disasters may become a normal pattern in our everyday weather as levels of heat-trapping gases in the atmosphere continue to rise.

Link -
http://www.ucsusa.org/global_warming/science_and_impacts/science/cold-snow-clima...
==========================================

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St George of the Garden

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Re: Abbott's AGW Drought Package
Reply #37 - Feb 26^th, 2014 at 7:51pm

gizmo_2655 wrote on Feb 26^th, 2014 at 7:22pm:

St George of the Garden wrote on Feb 26^th, 2014 at 5:35pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Feb 26^th, 2014 at 11:40am:

Sadly George, what most of the pro-AGW crowd don't realise ( I hope, at least) is that IF you are successful in returning temperatures to pre-1850's levels, you'd also kill off 1/2 or more likely 3/4 of the world's population. Because the whole AGW idea is based on a false premise, that pre-Industrial Revolution temperatures were 'normal', and they were NOT. The temperatures back then (during the Little Ice Age) were massively below average and below optimum for comfortable human existence.

Chum, temperatures have been rising since the IR. It is therefor vital to stabilise GHG concentrations in the atmosphere and this has become more difficult since the melting of the tundra around the arctic has seen methane clathrates melt and methane, the most fiendish if short term GHG, enter the atmosphere. A tripping point, and more of those to come.

Since fossil fuels are starting to reach their peak production makes it more and more economical to turn to renewable energy. We need all nations to get started on this and Australia shouldn’t bludge on the rest of the world to do the emissions reduction workload.

And since the IR took place during or just before a 'cold period' (as identified by NASA) is there any reason to be surprised that the temperatures would NATURALLY return to what they were during the Medieval Climate Optimum??

Temps have gone WAY past what they were in the Medieval Warm Period.

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Bam Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 21905 Gender:	Re: Abbott's AGW Drought Package Reply #38 - Feb 26^th, 2014 at 7:52pm gizmo_2655 wrote on Feb 26^th, 2014 at 2:55pm: It's stated everywhere Bam. Everything to do with AGW is about a return to pre-Industrial Revolution temperatures. Show us some links to reputable sources.
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St George of the Garden Gold Member Offline http://tinyurl.com/n 3o8m2x Posts: 9809 Gender:	Re: Abbott's AGW Drought Package Reply #39 - Feb 26^th, 2014 at 7:54pm I thought it was all about keeping CO2 to 400ppm? We are trying to apply the brakes not worry about any optimum.
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gizmo_2655

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Re: Abbott's AGW Drought Package
Reply #40 - Feb 27^th, 2014 at 12:03pm

St George of the Garden wrote on Feb 26^th, 2014 at 7:54pm:

I thought it was all about keeping CO2 to 400ppm? We are trying to apply the brakes not worry about any optimum.

Since we evolved in tropical temperatures, and still need them to live comfortable, 2 or 3 degrees C warmer is what we need rather than 'applying the brakes'.

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"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
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Re: Abbott's AGW Drought Package
Reply #41 - Feb 27^th, 2014 at 4:50pm

gizmo_2655 wrote on Feb 27^th, 2014 at 12:03pm:

St George of the Garden wrote on Feb 26^th, 2014 at 7:54pm:

I thought it was all about keeping CO2 to 400ppm? We are trying to apply the brakes not worry about any optimum.

Since we evolved in tropical temperatures, and still need them to live comfortable, 2 or 3 degrees C warmer is what we need rather than 'applying the brakes'.

I am still waiting for you to substantiate this:
gizmo_2655 wrote on Feb 26^th, 2014 at 2:55pm:

It's stated everywhere Bam. Everything to do with AGW is about a return to pre-Industrial Revolution temperatures.

Show us some links to reputable sources that explicitly state this is the goal of international action to mitigate climate change.

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St George of the Garden

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Re: Abbott's AGW Drought Package
Reply #42 - Feb 27^th, 2014 at 5:23pm

gizmo_2655 wrote on Feb 27^th, 2014 at 12:03pm:

St George of the Garden wrote on Feb 26^th, 2014 at 7:54pm:

I thought it was all about keeping CO2 to 400ppm? We are trying to apply the brakes not worry about any optimum.

Since we evolved in tropical temperatures, and still need them to live comfortable, 2 or 3 degrees C warmer is what we need rather than 'applying the brakes'.

You obviously don’t read what others post—with the methane clathrates melting and releasing holding concentrations at about 400ppm is going to take heroic measures.

I don’t want it any hotter, thanks. Days of over 45°C is more than warm enough. Want to live in the tropics move to Qld. Very glib to say need 2°C warmer, reality is that would mean days and days of over 48°C in Adelaide & Melbourne.

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gizmo_2655

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Re: Abbott's AGW Drought Package
Reply #43 - Feb 28^th, 2014 at 8:13am

Bam wrote on Feb 27^th, 2014 at 4:50pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Feb 27^th, 2014 at 12:03pm:

St George of the Garden wrote on Feb 26^th, 2014 at 7:54pm:

I thought it was all about keeping CO2 to 400ppm? We are trying to apply the brakes not worry about any optimum.

Since we evolved in tropical temperatures, and still need them to live comfortable, 2 or 3 degrees C warmer is what we need rather than 'applying the brakes'.

I am still waiting for you to substantiate this:
gizmo_2655 wrote on Feb 26^th, 2014 at 2:55pm:

It's stated everywhere Bam. Everything to do with AGW is about a return to pre-Industrial Revolution temperatures.

Show us some links to reputable sources that explicitly state this is the goal of international action to mitigate climate change.

Sorry bam, but we both know that any links won't be considered 'reputable' by you if they do show it.
But ask yourself why the IR rates are used as a base line for both Co2 and temperature increases?

But I'll find some later, when I have time.

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"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
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St George of the Garden

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Re: Abbott's AGW Drought Package
Reply #44 - Feb 28^th, 2014 at 8:17am

gizmo_2655 wrote on Feb 28^th, 2014 at 8:13am:

Bam wrote on Feb 27^th, 2014 at 4:50pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Feb 27^th, 2014 at 12:03pm:

St George of the Garden wrote on Feb 26^th, 2014 at 7:54pm:

I thought it was all about keeping CO2 to 400ppm? We are trying to apply the brakes not worry about any optimum.

Since we evolved in tropical temperatures, and still need them to live comfortable, 2 or 3 degrees C warmer is what we need rather than 'applying the brakes'.

I am still waiting for you to substantiate this:
gizmo_2655 wrote on Feb 26^th, 2014 at 2:55pm:

It's stated everywhere Bam. Everything to do with AGW is about a return to pre-Industrial Revolution temperatures.

Show us some links to reputable sources that explicitly state this is the goal of international action to mitigate climate change.

Sorry bam, but we both know that any links won't be considered 'reputable' by you if they do show it.
But ask yourself why the IR rates are used as a base line for both Co2 and temperature increases?

But I'll find some later, when I have time.

In other words—you were talking crap and you know it. I have read about AGW for a while and what an optimum temperature is has not been part of the discussion.

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