Australian Politics Forum - Wasting energy on climate change sceptics

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Re: Wasting energy on climate change sceptics
Reply #60 - Jan 30^th, 2014 at 7:57pm

gizmo_2655 wrote on Jan 30^th, 2014 at 3:44pm:

# wrote on Jan 30^th, 2014 at 3:37pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Jan 30^th, 2014 at 2:45pm:

... Galileo and Darwin were arguing against the religious 'vast majority' opinion, ...

It seems you can't differentiate between religion and scientific consensus. No wonder you're so confused.

gizmo_2655 wrote on Jan 30^th, 2014 at 2:45pm:

... and I was referring to Pythagoras' discovery or announcement that the Earth was not a flat disk floating on the ocean, which was the consensus opinion up to that time.

Didn't Pythagoras teach that the earth is spherical, probably in his religious movement? Is there any indication that the idea was his? Was he more religious leader than scientist?

gizmo_2655 wrote on Jan 30^th, 2014 at 2:45pm:

As for your question about right or wrong. No right/wrong are not the only two options. They 'could be' almost right, or half right or have it totally backwards. It's entirely conceivable that there is some as yet undiscovered, or overlook process at work. And please, don't immediately respond with a 'no, they know everything' argument...

By "they", I presume you mean the majority of the best qualified. Yet you seem certain that your lunatic fringe must be "right". How come?

That's a pathetic attempt at deflection you know...If you go back to my original point, I haven't actually mentioned 'scientific consensus', and it doesn't matter in the context of 'the vast majority of the best qualified'.
Whether they are religious scientist/scholars (which was the MOST common sort of scientist up until relatively recently) or secular scientists doesn't make any difference to the point that the 'majority' doesn't give any special infallibility.

As far as I can tell, the only one to mention "infallibility" here is you. Come to think of it, you behave as if the term applies to your lunatic fringe.

OK, so you've conceded that "right" and "wrong" are not the only options. You seem to be stuck, however, in a delusion that only the majority is fallible.

Climate Science is complex. It's unlikely that anyone is totally "right" or totally "wrong". That said, the lunatic fringe seems to be trying hard to achieve the latter. Which then, is most "right"?

For some reason that you're unable to articulate, you believe that the fringe must be "right". In my experience, the majority is probably most "right" (or least "wrong"). If they weren't, would they still be the majority?

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greggerypeccary

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Re: Wasting energy on climate change sceptics
Reply #61 - Jan 30^th, 2014 at 8:35pm

# wrote on Jan 29^th, 2014 at 9:45am:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Jan 28^th, 2014 at 3:47pm:

...
No, climate scientists went from being ordinary drone researchers 'that guy in the lab down hall' sort of thing, to basic rock stars of the science world that everyone wants to talk to, and that heads of government listen, to pretty much overnight. Suddenly they are getting offered more money in one grant than they'd received in decades, plus all expenses paid invitations to dinners, symposiums and conferences in exotic places all around the world. Of COURSE that's going to have an effect on them, and if they didn't want it to continue, they'd need to locked in a rubber room for their own safety..

Can you substantiate any of that rant?

As I said, I'll stick with the vast majority of the best qualified, at least until an organisation of reputable scientists disagrees with them.

A fallacious argument though.

An argumentum ad populum, to be precise.

Sometimes it's better to do one's own thinking, rather than letting others do it for you.

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Chimp_Logic

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Re: Wasting energy on climate change sceptics
Reply #62 - Jan 31^st, 2014 at 11:02am

gizmo_2655 wrote on Jan 30^th, 2014 at 12:48pm:

Chimp_Logic wrote on Jan 30^th, 2014 at 12:44pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Jan 30^th, 2014 at 10:47am:

# wrote on Jan 29^th, 2014 at 9:45am:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Jan 28^th, 2014 at 3:47pm:

...
No, climate scientists went from being ordinary drone researchers 'that guy in the lab down hall' sort of thing, to basic rock stars of the science world that everyone wants to talk to, and that heads of government listen, to pretty much overnight. Suddenly they are getting offered more money in one grant than they'd received in decades, plus all expenses paid invitations to dinners, symposiums and conferences in exotic places all around the world. Of COURSE that's going to have an effect on them, and if they didn't want it to continue, they'd need to locked in a rubber room for their own safety..

Can you substantiate any of that rant?

As I said, I'll stick with the vast majority of the best qualified, at least until an organisation of reputable scientists disagrees with them.

Not a rant, just a synopsis of the behaviour of people in general and in research science in particular.

And yes I probably can substantiate it, but why bother, you'll just deny, denigrate or ignore any articles/websites or evidence I use as you always do when challenged.

And remember, just because the "vast majority of the best qualified" say something, doesn't mean they are right. Scientific history is chock full of examples of the "vast majority" turning out to be completely wrong.
Pythagoras, Galileo, Darwin etc.

What experience do you personally have of researchers in the scientific fields?

How many researchers do you know?

Are you a researcher?

To cling onto people in the past making incorrect claims is the act of a desperate person.

THAT GRAPH must be getting to you - the truth has a habit of doing that doesn't it Gizmo.

Not as much as it seems to get to you....I know it's incorrect and that only the AGW Faithful believe it, so the only thing it 'does' to me is make me laugh.

What parts of the scripture that underpins your religious cult is supported by peer reviewed scientific evidence and scientific theory?

Your assignment is due April 15 2015

good luck PASTOR Gizmo

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Re: Wasting energy on climate change sceptics
Reply #63 - Jan 31^st, 2014 at 3:26pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 30^th, 2014 at 8:35pm:

# wrote on Jan 29^th, 2014 at 9:45am:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Jan 28^th, 2014 at 3:47pm:

...
No, climate scientists went from being ordinary drone researchers 'that guy in the lab down hall' sort of thing, to basic rock stars of the science world that everyone wants to talk to, and that heads of government listen, to pretty much overnight. Suddenly they are getting offered more money in one grant than they'd received in decades, plus all expenses paid invitations to dinners, symposiums and conferences in exotic places all around the world. Of COURSE that's going to have an effect on them, and if they didn't want it to continue, they'd need to locked in a rubber room for their own safety..

Can you substantiate any of that rant?

As I said, I'll stick with the vast majority of the best qualified, at least until an organisation of reputable scientists disagrees with them.

A fallacious argument though.
...

What argument?

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 30^th, 2014 at 8:35pm:

...
Sometimes it's better to do one's own thinking, rather than letting others do it for you.

Sometimes, it's better to be guided by the judgement of the best qualified. Isn't that why we sometimes employ consultants?

The more a wise man learns, the more he comes to appreciate how much he does not know. -- Confucius

You see, child greggerypeccary, if you grow up, you might come to realise that you don't know it all.

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greggerypeccary

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Re: Wasting energy on climate change sceptics
Reply #64 - Jan 31^st, 2014 at 3:58pm

# wrote on Jan 31^st, 2014 at 3:26pm:

What argument?

Your argument that AGW is probably real, based on "most people say it is".

# wrote on Jan 31^st, 2014 at 3:26pm:

Sometimes, it's better to be guided by the judgement of the best qualified.

Absolutely: "sometimes" it is.

And sometimes it's better to do one's own thinking, rather than letting others do it for you.

You see, #, 'sometimes' is not 'always'. There'a a valuable lesson for you, free of charge.

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Chimp_Logic

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Re: Wasting energy on climate change sceptics
Reply #65 - Jan 31^st, 2014 at 4:19pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 31^st, 2014 at 3:58pm:

# wrote on Jan 31^st, 2014 at 3:26pm:

What argument?

Your argument that AGW is probably real, based on "most people say it is".

# wrote on Jan 31^st, 2014 at 3:26pm:

Sometimes, it's better to be guided by the judgement of the best qualified.

[b]And sometimes it's better to do one's own thinking, rather than letting others do it for you.

You mean like interpreting the following data in this graph in short selective and convenient

BLUE

steps that suit your religious cult scripture and the sermons delivered by your Temple Priests? Is that what you define as THINKING for yourself? SOunds more like self soiled BS doesn't it Mr Greggy.

Everybody should think for themselves as much as possible - perhaps Mr Greggy should try it one day!

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greggerypeccary Gold Member Online Australian Politics Posts: 156081 Gender:	Re: Wasting energy on climate change sceptics Reply #66 - Jan 31^st, 2014 at 4:24pm Chimp_Logic wrote on Jan 31^st, 2014 at 4:19pm: Everybody should think for themselves as much as possible - perhaps Mr Greggy should try it one day! This is quite possibly one of the funniest (and most ironic) statements you've ever made. Most entertaining.
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Re: Wasting energy on climate change sceptics
Reply #67 - Jan 31^st, 2014 at 4:34pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 31^st, 2014 at 3:58pm:

# wrote on Jan 31^st, 2014 at 3:26pm:

What argument?

Your argument that AGW is probably real, based on "most qualified
people say it is".

# wrote on Jan 31^st, 2014 at 3:26pm:

Sometimes, it's better to be guided by the judgement of the best qualified.

Absolutely: "sometimes" it is.

And sometimes it's better to do one's own thinking, rather than letting others do it for you.

You see, #, 'sometimes' is not 'always'. There'a a valuable lesson for you, free of charge.

!fixed

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Re: Wasting energy on climate change sceptics
Reply #68 - Jan 31^st, 2014 at 4:36pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 31^st, 2014 at 4:24pm:

Chimp_Logic wrote on Jan 31^st, 2014 at 4:19pm:

Everybody should think for themselves as much as possible - perhaps Mr Greggy should try it one day!

This is quite possibly one of the funniest (and most ironic) statements you've ever made.

Most entertaining.

greg has his knickers in a knot Wink

Still hating the unborn for some reason Roll Eyes

I call it jealousy Grin

What did greggy miss out on Shocked

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*Sure....they're anti competitive as any subsidised job is. It wouldn't be there without the tax payer. Very damned difficult for a brainwashed collectivist to understand that I know.... (swaggy) *

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Re: Wasting energy on climate change sceptics
Reply #69 - Jan 31^st, 2014 at 10:23pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 31^st, 2014 at 4:24pm:

Chimp_Logic wrote on Jan 31^st, 2014 at 4:19pm:

Everybody should think for themselves as much as possible - perhaps Mr Greggy should try it one day!

This is quite possibly one of the funniest (and most ironic) statements you've ever made.

Most entertaining.

You know what they say Mr Greggy

The funniest of humour is based upon truth

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Re: Wasting energy on climate change sceptics
Reply #70 - Feb 1^st, 2014 at 10:37am

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 31^st, 2014 at 3:58pm:

# wrote on Jan 31^st, 2014 at 3:26pm:

What argument?

Your argument that AGW is probably real, based on "most people say it is".

Is that what I argue?

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 31^st, 2014 at 3:58pm:

... sometimes it's better to do one's own thinking, rather than letting others do it for you.
...

When is that "sometimes"?

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Re: Wasting energy on climate change sceptics
Reply #71 - Feb 1^st, 2014 at 1:37pm

Chimp_Logic wrote on Jan 31^st, 2014 at 11:02am:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Jan 30^th, 2014 at 12:48pm:

Chimp_Logic wrote on Jan 30^th, 2014 at 12:44pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Jan 30^th, 2014 at 10:47am:

# wrote on Jan 29^th, 2014 at 9:45am:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Jan 28^th, 2014 at 3:47pm:

...
No, climate scientists went from being ordinary drone researchers 'that guy in the lab down hall' sort of thing, to basic rock stars of the science world that everyone wants to talk to, and that heads of government listen, to pretty much overnight. Suddenly they are getting offered more money in one grant than they'd received in decades, plus all expenses paid invitations to dinners, symposiums and conferences in exotic places all around the world. Of COURSE that's going to have an effect on them, and if they didn't want it to continue, they'd need to locked in a rubber room for their own safety..

Can you substantiate any of that rant?

As I said, I'll stick with the vast majority of the best qualified, at least until an organisation of reputable scientists disagrees with them.

Not a rant, just a synopsis of the behaviour of people in general and in research science in particular.

And yes I probably can substantiate it, but why bother, you'll just deny, denigrate or ignore any articles/websites or evidence I use as you always do when challenged.

And remember, just because the "vast majority of the best qualified" say something, doesn't mean they are right. Scientific history is chock full of examples of the "vast majority" turning out to be completely wrong.
Pythagoras, Galileo, Darwin etc.

What experience do you personally have of researchers in the scientific fields?

How many researchers do you know?

Are you a researcher?

To cling onto people in the past making incorrect claims is the act of a desperate person.

THAT GRAPH must be getting to you - the truth has a habit of doing that doesn't it Gizmo.

Not as much as it seems to get to you....I know it's incorrect and that only the AGW Faithful believe it, so the only thing it 'does' to me is make me laugh.

What parts of the scripture that underpins your religious cult is supported by peer reviewed scientific evidence and scientific theory?

Your assignment is due April 15 2015

good luck PASTOR Gizmo

LOL Cardinal Chimpy...I'm not the one who keeps preaching the religion, and constantly starting threads taken from the 'bible' though, am I??

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Re: Wasting energy on climate change sceptics
Reply #72 - Feb 2^nd, 2014 at 2:20am

gizmo_2655 wrote on Feb 1^st, 2014 at 1:37pm:

Chimp_Logic wrote on Jan 31^st, 2014 at 11:02am:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Jan 30^th, 2014 at 12:48pm:

Chimp_Logic wrote on Jan 30^th, 2014 at 12:44pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Jan 30^th, 2014 at 10:47am:

# wrote on Jan 29^th, 2014 at 9:45am:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Jan 28^th, 2014 at 3:47pm:

...
No, climate scientists went from being ordinary drone researchers 'that guy in the lab down hall' sort of thing, to basic rock stars of the science world that everyone wants to talk to, and that heads of government listen, to pretty much overnight. Suddenly they are getting offered more money in one grant than they'd received in decades, plus all expenses paid invitations to dinners, symposiums and conferences in exotic places all around the world. Of COURSE that's going to have an effect on them, and if they didn't want it to continue, they'd need to locked in a rubber room for their own safety..

Can you substantiate any of that rant?

As I said, I'll stick with the vast majority of the best qualified, at least until an organisation of reputable scientists disagrees with them.

Not a rant, just a synopsis of the behaviour of people in general and in research science in particular.

And yes I probably can substantiate it, but why bother, you'll just deny, denigrate or ignore any articles/websites or evidence I use as you always do when challenged.

And remember, just because the "vast majority of the best qualified" say something, doesn't mean they are right. Scientific history is chock full of examples of the "vast majority" turning out to be completely wrong.
Pythagoras, Galileo, Darwin etc.

What experience do you personally have of researchers in the scientific fields?

How many researchers do you know?

Are you a researcher?

To cling onto people in the past making incorrect claims is the act of a desperate person.

THAT GRAPH must be getting to you - the truth has a habit of doing that doesn't it Gizmo.

Not as much as it seems to get to you....I know it's incorrect and that only the AGW Faithful believe it, so the only thing it 'does' to me is make me laugh.

What parts of the scripture that underpins your religious cult is supported by peer reviewed scientific evidence and scientific theory?

Your assignment is due April 15 2015

good luck PASTOR Gizmo

LOL

Cardina

l Chimpy...I'm not the one who keeps preaching the religion, and constantly starting threads taken from the 'bible' though, am I??

Using my material now are we Pastor Gizmo?

You make my point EXACTLY - Denialiists have common trait of not being able to think for themselves. Its an insult to couple your deranged religious lunacy with the credible approach of scepticism (a trait that actually underpins science itself)

It is funny to watch you clowns self destruct in public using your own lack of coherence, intelligence and ability to think rationally and sceptically.

Now go away and do some homework, before entering this debate and cluttering it with BS and innate ignorant spin....

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Re: Wasting energy on climate change sceptics
Reply #73 - Feb 2^nd, 2014 at 4:55am

Dear Mr Chimp, the time has come to start asking ourselves, "What is environmental progress?", and other questions such as this.

I don't know what lies at the end of this question but it certainly aint going round in ding-a-ling wild goose chases because the negative corporate interest news cabal try and hoodwink us into red herring agendas such as trying to convince the dark side that the uncertainty principle has been well understood and worked with for the whole of scientific understanding.

Let us lead ourselves and start asking questions socratic style.

But hey, no pressure: you are as you please...

The positive---> let us throw off the shackles of the negative as the world simply turns and our kids are at stake! Whoever hates them can't sleep anyways so who cares... Cool

ATTACK WITH IDEAS I SAY,... ADVANCE WITH A THREAT etc...

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Re: Wasting energy on climate change sceptics
Reply #74 - Feb 2^nd, 2014 at 6:40pm

BatteriesNotIncluded wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2014 at 4:55am:

Dear Mr Chimp, the time has come to start asking ourselves, "What is environmental progress?", and other questions such as this.

I don't know what lies at the end of this question but it certainly aint going round in ding-a-ling wild goose chases because the negative corporate interest news cabal try and hoodwink us into red herring agendas such as trying to convince the dark side that the uncertainty principle has been well understood and worked with for the whole of scientific understanding.

Let us lead ourselves and start asking questions socratic style.

But hey, no pressure: you are as you please...

The positive---> let us throw off the shackles of the negative as the world simply turns and our kids are at stake! Whoever hates them can't sleep anyways so who cares... Cool

ATTACK WITH IDEAS I SAY,... ADVANCE WITH A THREAT etc...

...unfortunately the environment is normally classed as some sort of dumping ground, a sink, and infinite resource etc, by the so called modern society.

A society which is almost entirely run as a quasi corporate capitalist system.

Short term profits

individualism

materialism

disposability

waste

etc

Nothing else matters. You only need to look at two nations to observe this in its grandest form. The USA and China are both quasi-capitalist systems that are underpinned and protected by the population.

The difference is trivial. The USA being a Corporately run quasi-capitalist system, whilst China is a State run quasi-capitalist system.

Both lead to the same self destructive outcomes.

It will take a total rethinking of the current economic and social paradigm for there to be genuine change. And usually with these major rethinks, there is great upheaval and human suffering

We must never question the wealth of the top 85 people in the world who control more than half the wealth.

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