Australian Politics Forum - Indonesia demands change to Australian policy

Armchair_Politician

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Indonesia demands change to Australian policy
Jan 18^th, 2014 at 6:06am

Okay, a few things about this...

Firstly, it is right for the Australian government to apologise for Navy and Customs vessels accidentally breaching Indonesian waters because it was just that - a mistake. Our vessels got incorrect information from the headquarters in Canberra, so it was an inadvertent breach and the apology is warranted.

My next point is that Indonesia's statement of intention to ramp up patrols to its south (our north) makes me laugh because currently they don't have any patrols to the south to my knowledge. They've all but admitted that the ex-RAN patrol boats we gave them are used in waters to Indonesia's north because that's where their greatest threats are. So I actually welcome their patrols to the south - maybe they'll actually do something about stopping these boats breaching OUR waters for once! We are not breaching Indonesia's sovereignty by returning Indonesian-flagged vessels to Indonesian waters as we have the right to refuse those vessels entry to our waters. We can't leave them to flounder in international waters, so returning them to Indonesian waters with lifejackets, fuel, etc is the responsible thing to do.

My last point is in regards to Indonesia's demands that Australia change one of its policies. The fact is that Indonesia has no right to even suggest Tony Abbott changes the toilet paper at Parliament House, let alone change a crucial policy that is becoming quite successful. If I was Abbott and I received that demand from the Indonesians, I would - in diplomatic-speak - tell them to respectfully bite me. They cannot dictate our policies to us any more than we can do that to them.

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/national/angry-indonesia-demands-federal-g...

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cods

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Re: Indonesia demands change to Australian policy
Reply #1 - Jan 18^th, 2014 at 6:19am

tell then to SUCK IT UP.....what a bunch of kids.. people drowning on their watch as they are watching them leave their shores..

if they are watching our Navy then they cannot but fail to see whats leaving their own waters....

we are contending with enormous bush fires..

tell them to pick up their dummy and go and do what they should have been doing for years...watching their own coastline ...if these people are smuggling people out... you can bet they are smuggling people and other things in... Roll Eyes

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Ex Dame Pansi Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 24168	Re: Indonesia demands change to Australian policy Reply #2 - Jan 18^th, 2014 at 6:22am We can be their enemy for a couple of years, Labor will patch things up when they get back in.
Back to top	"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace." Hendrix andrei said: Great isn't it? Seeing boatloads of what is nothing more than human garbage turn up..... IP Logged

Armchair_Politician

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Re: Indonesia demands change to Australian policy
Reply #3 - Jan 18^th, 2014 at 6:23am

cods wrote on Jan 18^th, 2014 at 6:19am:

tell then to SUCK IT UP.....what a bunch of kids.. people drowning on their watch as they are watching them leave their shores..

if they are watching our Navy then they cannot but fail to see whats leaving their own waters....

we are contending with enormous bush fires..

tell them to pick up their dummy and go and do what they should have been doing for years...watching their own coastline ...if these people are smuggling people out... you can bet they are smuggling people and other things in... Roll Eyes

That's the thing - they didn't even know about it until our government informed them. Indonesia would still be oblivious if Abbott's government had not said anything. He could have swept it under the rug (like Rudd did with the spying) but he has been open and honest about it the whole time.

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Armchair_Politician Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 30219 Gender:	Re: Indonesia demands change to Australian policy Reply #4 - Jan 18^th, 2014 at 6:24am Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Jan 18^th, 2014 at 6:22am: We can be their enemy for a couple of years, Labor will patch things up when they get back in. You mean patch things up like when Abbott had to deal with Rudd's spying on Indonesia?
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Ex Dame Pansi

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Re: Indonesia demands change to Australian policy
Reply #5 - Jan 18^th, 2014 at 6:28am

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jan 18^th, 2014 at 6:24am:

Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Jan 18^th, 2014 at 6:22am:

We can be their enemy for a couple of years, Labor will patch things up when they get back in.

You mean patch things up like when Abbott had to deal with Rudd's spying on Indonesia?

Exactly, but Abbott failed with that patch, probably because Johnny spied first so he had nowhere to go.

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"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace." Hendrix
andrei said: Great isn't it? Seeing boatloads of what is nothing more than human garbage turn up.....

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Dnarever

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Re: Indonesia demands change to Australian policy
Reply #6 - Jan 18^th, 2014 at 6:29am

cods wrote on Jan 18^th, 2014 at 6:19am:

tell then to SUCK IT UP.....what a bunch of kids.. people drowning on their watch as they are watching them leave their shores..

if they are watching our Navy then they cannot but fail to see whats leaving their own waters....

we are contending with enormous bush fires..

tell them to pick up their dummy and go and do what they should have been doing for years...watching their own coastline ...if these people are smuggling people out... you can bet they are smuggling people and other things in...

You understand that they have the right to take an Australian navy vessel illegally found in their waters into custody and hold the crew for questioning.

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Armchair_Politician

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Re: Indonesia demands change to Australian policy
Reply #7 - Jan 18^th, 2014 at 6:33am

Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Jan 18^th, 2014 at 6:28am:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jan 18^th, 2014 at 6:24am:

Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Jan 18^th, 2014 at 6:22am:

We can be their enemy for a couple of years, Labor will patch things up when they get back in.

You mean patch things up like when Abbott had to deal with Rudd's spying on Indonesia?

Exactly, but Abbott failed with that patch, probably because Johnny spied first so he had nowhere to go.

No, it was Rudd who initiated that spying. Also, Abbott did not fail. At an operational level between our military heads, the relationship was unchanged and their military head actually agreed with us and not his political masters. It's an election year for Indonesia - you can expect a lot more rhetoric from their politicians about these kinds of issues now.

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Armchair_Politician

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Re: Indonesia demands change to Australian policy
Reply #8 - Jan 18^th, 2014 at 6:34am

Dnarever wrote on Jan 18^th, 2014 at 6:29am:

cods wrote on Jan 18^th, 2014 at 6:19am:

tell then to SUCK IT UP.....what a bunch of kids.. people drowning on their watch as they are watching them leave their shores..

if they are watching our Navy then they cannot but fail to see whats leaving their own waters....

we are contending with enormous bush fires..

tell them to pick up their dummy and go and do what they should have been doing for years...watching their own coastline ...if these people are smuggling people out... you can bet they are smuggling people and other things in...

You understand that they have the right to take an Australian navy vessel illegally found in their waters into custody and hold the crew for questioning.

So you admit we have the right to detain any Indonesian people smuggling vessel and return them to Indonesian waters?

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progressiveslol Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 17029	Re: Indonesia demands change to Australian policy Reply #9 - Jan 18^th, 2014 at 6:52am Abbott is a genius to trick Indonesia into patrolling their own waters. They will have the obligation of picking up boats in destress and now we can push them to stop the boats.
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Andrei.Hicks

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Re: Indonesia demands change to Australian policy
Reply #10 - Jan 18^th, 2014 at 7:00am

Dnarever wrote on Jan 18^th, 2014 at 6:29am:

cods wrote on Jan 18^th, 2014 at 6:19am:

tell then to SUCK IT UP.....what a bunch of kids.. people drowning on their watch as they are watching them leave their shores..

if they are watching our Navy then they cannot but fail to see whats leaving their own waters....

we are contending with enormous bush fires..

tell them to pick up their dummy and go and do what they should have been doing for years...watching their own coastline ...if these people are smuggling people out... you can bet they are smuggling people and other things in...

You understand that they have the right to take an Australian navy vessel illegally found in their waters into custody and hold the crew for questioning.

Actually you'll find there is precedent to deny them access.

Both the United States and Israel hold a directive that their vessels cannot at any point be boarded by a foreign national without the express authority of the Ship Captain - no matter where the vessel is found to be located.

Any boarding of the ship is considered by the US and Israel to be an act of war.

Egypt were warned of this just 10 years ago when an Israeli ship was almost boarded inside Egyptain waters.

So sorry, you can ignore this convention with pure brute force.

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Armchair_Politician Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 30219 Gender:	Re: Indonesia demands change to Australian policy Reply #11 - Jan 18^th, 2014 at 7:04am progressiveslol wrote on Jan 18^th, 2014 at 6:52am: Abbott is a genius to trick Indonesia into patrolling their own waters. They will have the obligation of picking up boats in destress and now we can push them to stop the boats. +1000
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St George of the Garden

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Re: Indonesia demands change to Australian policy
Reply #12 - Jan 18^th, 2014 at 7:10am

One consequence of the Libs gung ho approach to ASs, Indo etc:

Quote:

Batam, Riau Islands (ANTARA News) – Australias participation in the Multilateral Naval Exercise Komodo 2014 in the Indonesian Riau Islands provinces waters has been cancelled, stated exercise director Commodore Amarulla Octavian.

“The cancellation follows the two countries agreement due to political problems,” he explained here on Thursday.

Initially, the Australian navy was invited and had agreed to participate in the joint exercise of the ASEAN countries, but somewhere along the way, the two countries agreed to cancel Australias participation, he remarked.

http://www.antaranews.com/en/news/92225/australias-participation-in-mne-komodo-c...

What will be the next consequence?

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Dnarever

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Re: Indonesia demands change to Australian policy
Reply #13 - Jan 18^th, 2014 at 7:14am

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jan 18^th, 2014 at 7:00am:

Dnarever wrote on Jan 18^th, 2014 at 6:29am:

cods wrote on Jan 18^th, 2014 at 6:19am:

tell then to SUCK IT UP.....what a bunch of kids.. people drowning on their watch as they are watching them leave their shores..

if they are watching our Navy then they cannot but fail to see whats leaving their own waters....

we are contending with enormous bush fires..

tell them to pick up their dummy and go and do what they should have been doing for years...watching their own coastline ...if these people are smuggling people out... you can bet they are smuggling people and other things in...

You understand that they have the right to take an Australian navy vessel illegally found in their waters into custody and hold the crew for questioning.

Actually you'll find there is precedent to deny them access.

Both the United States and Israel hold a directive that their vessels cannot at any point be boarded by a foreign national without the express authority of the Ship Captain - no matter where the vessel is found to be located.

Any boarding of the ship is considered by the US and Israel to be an act of war.

Egypt were warned of this just 10 years ago when an Israeli ship was almost boarded inside Egyptain waters.

So sorry, you can ignore this convention with pure brute force.

Both the United States and Israel hold a directive that their vessels cannot at any point be boarded by a foreign national without the express authority of the Ship Captain - no matter where the vessel is found to be located.

Damn things keep changing - I had no idea that we are now either the United States or Israel.

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Dnarever

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Re: Indonesia demands change to Australian policy
Reply #14 - Jan 18^th, 2014 at 7:16am

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jan 18^th, 2014 at 7:04am:

progressiveslol wrote on Jan 18^th, 2014 at 6:52am:

Abbott is a genius to trick Indonesia into patrolling their own waters. They will have the obligation of picking up boats in destress and now we can push them to stop the boats.

+1000

They may provide fuel to Australian boats coming in and turn them around ???

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