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Global warming is real? Tell the frozen US/UK! (Read 16476 times)
greggerypeccary
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Re: Global warming is real? Tell the frozen US/UK!
Reply #30 - Jan 8th, 2014 at 3:19pm
 
greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 8th, 2014 at 9:32am:
Innocent bystander wrote on Jan 7th, 2014 at 10:07pm:
I think the warming jig is up  Grin



No problems.

They'll just change their hypothesis to AGCC (Anthropogenic Global Climate Change).

They have an answer for everything.



See:  http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1389081386/29#29

Faith can be a very powerful thing.

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Re: Global warming is real? Tell the frozen US/UK!
Reply #31 - Jan 8th, 2014 at 3:36pm
 
MOTR wrote on Jan 8th, 2014 at 3:17pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 8th, 2014 at 9:32am:
Innocent bystander wrote on Jan 7th, 2014 at 10:07pm:
I think the warming jig is up  Grin



No problems.

They'll just change their hypothesis to AGCC (Anthropogenic Global Climate Change).

They have an answer for everything.


Yeah, it's called winter. It's just that this year the cold is being shifted around by a volatile jet stream. Our climate system is still warming because it obeys the laws of physics.




Our climate system is still warming? ... well I'll be buggered!, you do realise though that the climate is always either warming or cooling don't you?, there is no steady state, Earth doesn't have a climate control switch where its a perfect 21 degrees every day you know, and as the current warming is well within natural variation and below all the "climate models" expectations I think you may have prematurely got you panties in a bunch for nothing  Grin
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greggerypeccary
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Re: Global warming is real? Tell the frozen US/UK!
Reply #32 - Jan 8th, 2014 at 6:09pm
 
MOTR wrote on Jan 8th, 2014 at 3:17pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 8th, 2014 at 9:32am:
Innocent bystander wrote on Jan 7th, 2014 at 10:07pm:
I think the warming jig is up  Grin



No problems.

They'll just change their hypothesis to AGCC (Anthropogenic Global Climate Change).

They have an answer for everything.


Yeah, it's called winter. It's just that this year the cold is being shifted around by a volatile jet stream. 




Start thinking up an excuse for next year.
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Re: Global warming is real? Tell the frozen US/UK!
Reply #33 - Jan 8th, 2014 at 6:11pm
 
winter is coming
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In the fullness of time...
 
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Re: Global warming is real? Tell the frozen US/UK!
Reply #34 - Jan 8th, 2014 at 7:47pm
 
Quote:
Leroy @Leroy_Lynch
Follow
Freeze gripping US may be tied to shrinking Arctic sea ice caused by manmade #climatechange

…
Quote:
8:20 AM - 8 Jan 2014
US polar vortex may be example of global warming
Climate Central: Deep freeze gripping America may be tied to shrinking Arctic sea ice caused by manmade climate change

The Guardian @guardian


http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2014/jan/07/us-polar-vortex-global-warmin...

http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/2014/01/06/what-is-this-polar-v...
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namnugenot
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Re: Global warming is real? Tell the frozen US/UK!
Reply #35 - Jan 8th, 2014 at 8:10pm
 
St George of the Garden wrote on Jan 8th, 2014 at 7:47pm:
Quote:
Leroy @Leroy_Lynch
Follow
Freeze gripping US may be tied to shrinking Arctic sea ice caused by manmade #climatechange

…
Quote:
8:20 AM - 8 Jan 2014
US polar vortex may be example of global warming
Climate Central: Deep freeze gripping America may be tied to shrinking Arctic sea ice caused by manmade climate change

The Guardian @guardian


http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2014/jan/07/us-polar-vortex-global-warmin...

http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/2014/01/06/what-is-this-polar-v...


...may be...might be...FFS 
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Re: Global warming is real? Tell the frozen US/UK!
Reply #36 - Jan 9th, 2014 at 6:29am
 
Innocent bystander wrote on Jan 8th, 2014 at 7:33am:
MOTR wrote on Jan 8th, 2014 at 7:12am:
You'll find these cold extremes have been predicted in the scientific literature. Watch the video.




I think you'll find they have only been predicting that in hindsight  Wink


Well, no.

Arctic ice melt sets stage for severe winters, scientists say

June 5, 2012
By Anne Ju

http://www.news.cornell.edu/stories/2012/06/arctic-ice-melt-sets-stage-cold-weat...


Quote:
Severe winter weather outbreaks are more likely due in part to the seemingly far-off problem of melting sea ice in the Arctic.

The dramatic melt-off of Arctic sea ice due to climate change is hitting closer to home than millions of Americans might think. That's because melting Arctic sea ice can trigger a domino effect leading to increased odds of severe winter weather outbreaks in the Northern Hemisphere's middle latitudes -- think the "Snowmageddon" storm that hamstrung Washington, D.C., during February 2010.

Cornell's Charles H. Greene, professor of earth and atmospheric sciences, and Bruce C. Monger, senior research associate in the same department, detail this phenomenon in a paper published in the June issue of the journal Oceanography.

"Everyone thinks of Arctic climate change as this remote phenomenon that has little effect on our everyday lives," Greene said. "But what goes on in the Arctic remotely forces our weather patterns here."

A warmer Earth increases the melting of sea ice during summer, exposing more dark ocean water to incoming sunlight. This causes increased absorption of solar radiation and excess summertime heating of the ocean -- further accelerating the ice melt. The excess heat is released to the atmosphere, especially during the autumn, decreasing the temperature and atmospheric pressure gradients between the Arctic and middle latitudes.


...

Negative Arctic Oscillation conditions are associated with higher pressure in the Arctic and a weakened polar vortex (yellow arrows). A weakened jet stream (black arrows) is characterized by larger-amplitude meanders in its trajectory and a reduction in the wave speed of those meanders.

Quote:
A diminished latitudinal pressure gradient is linked to a weakening of the winds associated with the polar vortex and jet stream. Since the polar vortex normally retains the cold Arctic air masses up above the Arctic Circle, its weakening allows the cold air to invade lower latitudes.

The recent observations present a new twist to the Arctic Oscillation (AO) -- a natural pattern of climate variability in the Northern Hemisphere. Before humans began warming the planet, the Arctic's climate system naturally oscillated between conditions favorable and those unfavorable for invasions of cold Arctic air.

Greene says, "What's happening now is that we are changing the climate system, especially in the Arctic, and that's increasing the odds for the negative AO conditions that favor cold air invasions and severe winter weather outbreaks.

"It's something to think about given our recent history," Greene continued. This past winter, an extended cold snap descended on central and eastern Europe in mid-January, with temperatures approaching -22 Fahrenheit and snowdrifts reaching rooftops. And, of course, there were the record snowstorms fresh in the memories of residents from several eastern U.S. cities, such as Washington, New York and Philadelphia, as well as many other parts of the Eastern Seaboard during the previous two years.

But wait -- Greene and Monger's paper is being published just after one of the warmest winters in the eastern U.S. on record. How does that relate?

"It's a great demonstration of the complexities of our climate system and how they influence our regional weather patterns," Greene said. In any particular region, many factors can have an influence, including the El Nino/La Nina cycle. This winter, La Nina in the Pacific shifted undulations in the jet stream so that while many parts of the Northern Hemisphere were hit by the severe winter weather patterns expected during a bout of negative AO conditions, much of the eastern United States basked in the warm tropical air that swung north with the jet stream.

"It turns out that while the eastern U.S. missed out on the cold and snow this winter, and experienced record-breaking warmth during March, many other parts of the Northern Hemisphere were not so fortunate," Greene said. Europe and Alaska experienced record-breaking winter storms, and the global average temperature during March 2012 was cooler than any other March since 1999.

"A lot of times people say, 'Wait a second, which is it going to be -- more snow or more warming?' Well, it depends on a lot of factors, and I guess this was a really good winter demonstrating that," Greene said. "What we can expect, however, is the Arctic wildcard stacking the deck in favor of more severe winter outbreaks in the future."

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« Last Edit: Jan 9th, 2014 at 6:38am by MOTR »  

Hunt says Coalition accepts IPCC findings

"What does this mean? It means that we need to do practical things that actually reduce emissions."
 
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Re: Global warming is real? Tell the frozen US/UK!
Reply #37 - Jan 9th, 2014 at 6:49am
 
greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 8th, 2014 at 6:09pm:
MOTR wrote on Jan 8th, 2014 at 3:17pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 8th, 2014 at 9:32am:
Innocent bystander wrote on Jan 7th, 2014 at 10:07pm:
I think the warming jig is up  Grin



No problems.

They'll just change their hypothesis to AGCC (Anthropogenic Global Climate Change).

They have an answer for everything.


Yeah, it's called winter. It's just that this year the cold is being shifted around by a volatile jet stream. 




Start thinking up an excuse for next year.


Well done, greggery, now you are tacitly denying there will be any consequences from the ice melt in the Arctic. Or maybe you are denying the ice melt itself.
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Hunt says Coalition accepts IPCC findings

"What does this mean? It means that we need to do practical things that actually reduce emissions."
 
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Andrei.Hicks
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Re: Global warming is real? Tell the frozen US/UK!
Reply #38 - Jan 9th, 2014 at 6:56am
 
Shock as it's cold and wet here in winter.
That's never happened before you know.
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Anyone who lives within their means suffers from a lack of imagination - Oscar Wilde
 
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greggerypeccary
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Re: Global warming is real? Tell the frozen US/UK!
Reply #39 - Jan 9th, 2014 at 7:57am
 
MOTR wrote on Jan 9th, 2014 at 6:49am:
greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 8th, 2014 at 6:09pm:
MOTR wrote on Jan 8th, 2014 at 3:17pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 8th, 2014 at 9:32am:
Innocent bystander wrote on Jan 7th, 2014 at 10:07pm:
I think the warming jig is up  Grin



No problems.

They'll just change their hypothesis to AGCC (Anthropogenic Global Climate Change).

They have an answer for everything.


Yeah, it's called winter. It's just that this year the cold is being shifted around by a volatile jet stream. 




Start thinking up an excuse for next year.


Well done, greggery, now you are tacitly denying there will be any consequences from the ice melt in the Arctic. Or maybe you are denying the ice melt itself.



I'm denying the existence of credible, reliable evidence to support the AGW hypothesis.


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St George of the Garden
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Re: Global warming is real? Tell the frozen US/UK!
Reply #40 - Jan 9th, 2014 at 8:23am
 
namnugenot wrote on Jan 8th, 2014 at 8:10pm:
St George of the Garden wrote on Jan 8th, 2014 at 7:47pm:
Quote:
Leroy @Leroy_Lynch
Follow
Freeze gripping US may be tied to shrinking Arctic sea ice caused by manmade #climatechange

…
Quote:
8:20 AM - 8 Jan 2014
US polar vortex may be example of global warming
Climate Central: Deep freeze gripping America may be tied to shrinking Arctic sea ice caused by manmade climate change

The Guardian @guardian


http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2014/jan/07/us-polar-vortex-global-warmin...

http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/2014/01/06/what-is-this-polar-v...


...may be...might be...for goodness sake 


Meteorologists study a very, very “noisy” system. But given the US and especially the UK has been having the very cold winters for several years in a row, given that the jetstream IS behaving oddly lends weight to their conclusions.

The language of scientists, especially meteorologists, is cautious and precise.

It is only little conservative dweebs sitting in front of their computer, no knowledge of climate studies etc can say definitively “The globe is NOT warming” when the trend of average global temperatures is upwards. To “prove” their faith, these dweebs turn to all sorts of cranks, like Andrew Bolt, or posit causes like “It’s the sun, d’uh!” without explaining how the sun is causing AGW.

Read something sensible on the subject:
http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2014/jan/07/us-polar-vortex-global-warmin...

As the world warms the amount of water vapor in the increases. Because of this some glaciers in optimum locations are growing while nearly all glaciers are in retreat.

This retreat includes the Himalayan Snowfields. These feed seven of the worlds major rivers including the Ganges, the Yellow River and the Mekong—if they disappear a quarter of the world will starve. Maybe this is why the Chinese government is implementing all sorts of emissions reductions and renewable energy sources—the decline in the flow is probably measurable by now. Campbell Newman is having budgetary problems partly because coal royalties are way down. Seeing a pattern? I wouldn’t invest in any thermal coal project!
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« Last Edit: Jan 9th, 2014 at 8:31am by St George of the Garden »  

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MOTR
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Re: Global warming is real? Tell the frozen US/UK!
Reply #41 - Jan 9th, 2014 at 8:34am
 
greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 9th, 2014 at 7:57am:
MOTR wrote on Jan 9th, 2014 at 6:49am:
greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 8th, 2014 at 6:09pm:
MOTR wrote on Jan 8th, 2014 at 3:17pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 8th, 2014 at 9:32am:
Innocent bystander wrote on Jan 7th, 2014 at 10:07pm:
I think the warming jig is up  Grin



No problems.

They'll just change their hypothesis to AGCC (Anthropogenic Global Climate Change).

They have an answer for everything.


Yeah, it's called winter. It's just that this year the cold is being shifted around by a volatile jet stream. 




Start thinking up an excuse for next year.


Well done, greggery, now you are tacitly denying there will be any consequences from the ice melt in the Arctic. Or maybe you are denying the ice melt itself.



I'm denying the existence of credible, reliable evidence to support the AGW hypothesis.




Yes you are.
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Hunt says Coalition accepts IPCC findings

"What does this mean? It means that we need to do practical things that actually reduce emissions."
 
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Re: Global warming is real? Tell the frozen US/UK!
Reply #42 - Jan 9th, 2014 at 9:30am
 
greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 9th, 2014 at 7:57am:
...
I'm denying the existence of credible, reliable evidence to support the AGW hypothesis
If there's no such evidence, then bodies of reputable scientists will have said so. Just link to them, greggerypeccary.

You aren't pretending to be better qualified than all those scientists, are you, greggerypeccary? What are your qualifications, greggerypeccary?
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Re: Global warming is real? Tell the frozen US/UK!
Reply #43 - Jan 9th, 2014 at 10:26am
 
MOTR wrote on Jan 9th, 2014 at 6:29am:
Innocent bystander wrote on Jan 8th, 2014 at 7:33am:
MOTR wrote on Jan 8th, 2014 at 7:12am:
You'll find these cold extremes have been predicted in the scientific literature. Watch the video.




I think you'll find they have only been predicting that in hindsight  Wink


Well, no.

Arctic ice melt sets stage for severe winters, scientists say

June 5, 2012
By Anne Ju

http://www.news.cornell.edu/stories/2012/06/arctic-ice-melt-sets-stage-cold-weat...


Quote:
Severe winter weather outbreaks are more likely due in part to the seemingly far-off problem of melting sea ice in the Arctic.

The dramatic melt-off of Arctic sea ice due to climate change is hitting closer to home than millions of Americans might think. That's because melting Arctic sea ice can trigger a domino effect leading to increased odds of severe winter weather outbreaks in the Northern Hemisphere's middle latitudes -- think the "Snowmageddon" storm that hamstrung Washington, D.C., during February 2010.

Cornell's Charles H. Greene, professor of earth and atmospheric sciences, and Bruce C. Monger, senior research associate in the same department, detail this phenomenon in a paper published in the June issue of the journal Oceanography.

"Everyone thinks of Arctic climate change as this remote phenomenon that has little effect on our everyday lives," Greene said. "But what goes on in the Arctic remotely forces our weather patterns here."

A warmer Earth increases the melting of sea ice during summer, exposing more dark ocean water to incoming sunlight. This causes increased absorption of solar radiation and excess summertime heating of the ocean -- further accelerating the ice melt. The excess heat is released to the atmosphere, especially during the autumn, decreasing the temperature and atmospheric pressure gradients between the Arctic and middle latitudes.


http://blogs.agu.org/wildwildscience/files/2013/04/arctic.jpg

Negative Arctic Oscillation conditions are associated with higher pressure in the Arctic and a weakened polar vortex (yellow arrows). A weakened jet stream (black arrows) is characterized by larger-amplitude meanders in its trajectory and a reduction in the wave speed of those meanders.

Quote:
A diminished latitudinal pressure gradient is linked to a weakening of the winds associated with the polar vortex and jet stream. Since the polar vortex normally retains the cold Arctic air masses up above the Arctic Circle, its weakening allows the cold air to invade lower latitudes.

The recent observations present a new twist to the Arctic Oscillation (AO) -- a natural pattern of climate variability in the Northern Hemisphere. Before humans began warming the planet, the Arctic's climate system naturally oscillated between conditions favorable and those unfavorable for invasions of cold Arctic air.

Greene says, "What's happening now is that we are changing the climate system, especially in the Arctic, and that's increasing the odds for the negative AO conditions that favor cold air invasions and severe winter weather outbreaks.

"It's something to think about given our recent history," Greene continued. This past winter, an extended cold snap descended on central and eastern Europe in mid-January, with temperatures approaching -22 Fahrenheit and snowdrifts reaching rooftops. And, of course, there were the record snowstorms fresh in the memories of residents from several eastern U.S. cities, such as Washington, New York and Philadelphia, as well as many other parts of the Eastern Seaboard during the previous two years.

But wait -- Greene and Monger's paper is being published just after one of the warmest winters in the eastern U.S. on record. How does that relate?

"It's a great demonstration of the complexities of our climate system and how they influence our regional weather patterns," Greene said. In any particular region, many factors can have an influence, including the El Nino/La Nina cycle. This winter, La Nina in the Pacific shifted undulations in the jet stream so that while many parts of the Northern Hemisphere were hit by the severe winter weather patterns expected during a bout of negative AO conditions, much of the eastern United States basked in the warm tropical air that swung north with the jet stream.

"It turns out that while the eastern U.S. missed out on the cold and snow this winter, and experienced record-breaking warmth during March, many other parts of the Northern Hemisphere were not so fortunate," Greene said. Europe and Alaska experienced record-breaking winter storms, and the global average temperature during March 2012 was cooler than any other March since 1999.

"A lot of times people say, 'Wait a second, which is it going to be -- more snow or more warming?' Well, it depends on a lot of factors, and I guess this was a really good winter demonstrating that," Greene said. "What we can expect, however, is the Arctic wildcard stacking the deck in favor of more severe winter outbreaks in the future."





Thankyou for proving my point.  Wink
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greggerypeccary
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Re: Global warming is real? Tell the frozen US/UK!
Reply #44 - Jan 9th, 2014 at 10:28am
 
# wrote on Jan 9th, 2014 at 9:30am:
greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 9th, 2014 at 7:57am:
...
I'm denying the existence of credible, reliable evidence to support the AGW hypothesis
If there's no such evidence, then bodies of reputable scientists will have said so.



Really?

Can you substantiate that claim?


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