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Global warming is real? Tell the frozen US/UK! (Read 16500 times)
Chimp_Logic
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Re: Global warming is real? Tell the frozen US/UK!
Reply #255 - Jan 23rd, 2014 at 11:01pm
 
lee wrote on Jan 23rd, 2014 at 10:00pm:
muso wrote on Jan 23rd, 2014 at 6:13pm:
Where do you get best guess from? I don't see that anywhere in the text.



Sorry, My paraphrasing. try a search for "estimate".

noun: estimate; plural noun: estimates
ˈestəmit/

    1. an approximate calculation or judgment of the value, number, quantity, or extent of something.
    "at a rough estimate, our staff is recycling a quarter of the paper used"
    synonyms:      rough calculation, approximation, estimation, rough guess;



...is that an ACCURATE definition?

(get it?)

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muso
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Re: Global warming is real? Tell the frozen US/UK!
Reply #256 - Jan 24th, 2014 at 5:57am
 
lee wrote on Jan 23rd, 2014 at 10:00pm:
muso wrote on Jan 23rd, 2014 at 6:13pm:
Where do you get best guess from? I don't see that anywhere in the text.



Sorry, My paraphrasing. try a search for "estimate".

noun: estimate; plural noun: estimates
ˈestəmit/

    1. an approximate calculation or judgment of the value, number, quantity, or extent of something.
    "at a rough estimate, our staff is recycling a quarter of the paper used"
    synonyms:      rough calculation, approximation, estimation, rough guess;


I still don't see how you get "rough estimate" from what is basically standard methodology for a collection of datasets. The only rough guess I can see is yours, and is related to the fact that you don't have a clue, you haven't bothered to read into it (apart from amusing us all by quoting the dictionary) and then you decided to guess yourself, on no basis other than what you might have gleaned from Watts and his band of rogues.

First you claim that it's satellite data, then you say "oh sorry, I was wrong" (paraphrased) Then you say, "No, it's not satellite data,  it's just a rough guess". (paraphrased)

Lee, your credibility is flying out the window here.

I gave you enough rope, and you just obliged. Thank you. You have  demonstrated quite conclusively that you really don't have a clue about the subject at hand. You're fishing blind. Aren't you?

The following extract from the description of the methodology doesn't say "best guess" to me. It says something like "a rigorous consideration of all factors and variables":

Quote:
The published documentation [3] explains the numbering system used by the Bureau of Meteorology and the methods used to manage the changes of stations at each site ([15], section 2.4 and 3.4). During each transition period, one of the sites, generally the old one, is kept as a comparison site for a minimum period of five years of parallel observations. These modifications of the network structure are related to factors such as the urbanisation of the original site, in particular, the construction of new buildings affecting the observations, and the systematic transfer of bureau-staffed sites from city centres to airports. For example, the Darwin ACORN-SAT site is sourced from three successive deployment phases (1910-1942, 1941-2007 and 2001-now) [11]. The first phase corresponds to the observations done at the Darwin Post Office (PO) from 1910 to 1942. The BoM code for this station is 014016. The second and third phases correspond to two separate sites at the Darwin Airport (AP), located one kilometre away from each other. One common BoM code (014015) is used for the observations made at these two sites. During and after the overlap period, the decommissioned site is renamed and referred to as the Darwin Airport Comparison station (014040). ACORN-SAT utilises improved analysis techniques which exploit pair-wise comparison between one station and up to 10 comparable stations used as references. The algorithm applies differential adjustments to different parts of the daily temperature frequency distribution to better estimate the deltas with reference stations before and after an inhomogeneity. The ACORN-SAT method uses all the available background information or metadata about station moves, changes in technology and in observational procedures to identify and locate the breakpoints and to evaluate and validate the adjustments.


At first scan, It seems like a reasonable approach to me  and they appear to have covered all bases.

Which part of it do you have an issue with? - Let me see, a feeling in your bones? A feeling in Anthony Watts' bones that is somehow contagious?

...It's the vibe, your honour?

Let me give you a clue. Anthony Watts is not the Messaiah. He's a very naughty boy.
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lee
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Re: Global warming is real? Tell the frozen US/UK!
Reply #257 - Jan 24th, 2014 at 10:27am
 
No it's a best guess. Wink
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lee
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Re: Global warming is real? Tell the frozen US/UK!
Reply #258 - Jan 24th, 2014 at 10:36am
 
muso, As I explained No Watts.
muso wrote on Jan 24th, 2014 at 5:57am:
generally the old one, is kept as a comparison site for a minimum period of five years of parallel observations.


muso wrote on Jan 24th, 2014 at 5:57am:
The first phase corresponds to the observations done at the Darwin Post Office (PO) from 1910 to 1942.


Did they keep a comparison from the earliest data? I think not, they wouldn't have seen a reason to. You notice they only refer to the airport sites. So some are compared, others not.

Edit: Sorry, In my imperferct world mistakes are allowed and I admit them.
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muso
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Re: Global warming is real? Tell the frozen US/UK!
Reply #259 - Jan 24th, 2014 at 12:23pm
 
Quote:
Did they keep a comparison from the earliest data?


Well, you tell me. You're the one making the claims without even having any knowledge of the methodology.
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lee
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Re: Global warming is real? Tell the frozen US/UK!
Reply #260 - Jan 24th, 2014 at 1:05pm
 
muso wrote on Jan 24th, 2014 at 12:23pm:
Well, you tell me. You're the one making the claims without even having any knowledge of the methodology.
Posted by: lee  Mark & Quote Quote      


'The morning of Thursday 19 February 1942 dawned bright and sunny in Darwin. Shops and businesses were open as was the post office (now the site of the Northern Territory's Parliament House). Just before 10.00 am 188 Japanese aircraft appeared overhead and bombs soon began to rain down on the town, harbour and airfield. The raid was led by Mitsuo Fuchida, the same man who led the earlier attack on Pearl Harbour.'

http://guides.naa.gov.au/records-about-northern-territory/part1/chapter4/4.3.aspx

So although I have no evidence to the contrary, I feel it most unlikely that comparison data was kept.

Some more information on Darwin temps

'I have spoken to someone from the Climate section of the Darwin Bureau of Meteorology. They advise that the Darwin temperature station was moved to its present location at the radar station at Darwin airport in early 1941 (when the radar station was built). At this time the airport was very much "out in the scrub" with no surrounding development at all. Indeed old photos in books I have on the bombing of Darwin suggest (though not conclusively) that the runway was not even concrete or bitumen-surfaced at that time. Thus no urban heat island effect.

Prior to the 1941 move, there were 3 main temperature measurement locations, at Government House, the old Post Office, and the Botanical Gardens.'

http://www.john-daly.com/darwin.htm
Your choice of data selection.
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gizmo_2655
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Re: Global warming is real? Tell the frozen US/UK!
Reply #261 - Jan 24th, 2014 at 5:26pm
 
lee wrote on Jan 24th, 2014 at 1:05pm:
muso wrote on Jan 24th, 2014 at 12:23pm:
Well, you tell me. You're the one making the claims without even having any knowledge of the methodology.
Posted by: lee  Mark & Quote Quote      


'The morning of Thursday 19 February 1942 dawned bright and sunny in Darwin. Shops and businesses were open as was the post office (now the site of the Northern Territory's Parliament House). Just before 10.00 am 188 Japanese aircraft appeared overhead and bombs soon began to rain down on the town, harbour and airfield. The raid was led by Mitsuo Fuchida, the same man who led the earlier attack on Pearl Harbour.'

http://guides.naa.gov.au/records-about-northern-territory/part1/chapter4/4.3.aspx

So although I have no evidence to the contrary, I feel it most unlikely that comparison data was kept.

Some more information on Darwin temps

'I have spoken to someone from the Climate section of the Darwin Bureau of Meteorology. They advise that the Darwin temperature station was moved to its present location at the radar station at Darwin airport in early 1941 (when the radar station was built). At this time the airport was very much "out in the scrub" with no surrounding development at all. Indeed old photos in books I have on the bombing of Darwin suggest (though not conclusively) that the runway was not even concrete or bitumen-surfaced at that time. Thus no urban heat island effect.

Prior to the 1941 move, there were 3 main temperature measurement locations, at Government House, the old Post Office, and the Botanical Gardens.'

http://www.john-daly.com/darwin.htm
Your choice of data selection.


Yes, most likely the airstrip was made of Marsden matting, a perforated steel matting used for temporary roads and airfields during WW2.
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"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
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Re: Global warming is real? Tell the frozen US/UK!
Reply #262 - Jan 24th, 2014 at 7:57pm
 
For heaven's sake! There's nothing suspicious about adjusting readings when necessary. It's explained in passing in An insider’s story of the global attack on climate science:
Quote:
In 1981 as part of my PhD work, I produced a seven-station New Zealand temperature series, known as 7SS, to monitor historic temperature trends and variations from Auckland to as far south as Dunedin in southern New Zealand.

A decade later, in 1991-92 while at the NZ Meteorological Service, I revised the 7SS using a new homogenisation approach to make New Zealand’s temperature records more accurate, such as adjusting for when temperature gauges were moved to new sites.

For example, in 1928 Wellington’s temperature gauge was relocated from an inner suburb near sea level up into the hills at Kelburn, where - due to its higher, cooler location - it recorded much cooler temperatures for the city than before.

With statistical analysis, we could work out how much Wellington’s temperature has really gone up or down since the city’s temperature records began back in 1862, and how much of that change was simply due to the gauge being moved uphill. (You can read more about re-examining NZ temperatures here.)

To pretend that the mere mention of "adjustment" , or "homogenisation" is evidence of the Great Global Warming Conspiracy evinces  some combination of ignorance, stupidity, mendacity and insanity. Which sounds more and more like Watts to me.
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Re: Global warming is real? Tell the frozen US/UK!
Reply #263 - Jan 27th, 2014 at 4:49pm
 
# wrote on Jan 24th, 2014 at 7:57pm:
For heaven's sake! There's nothing suspicious about adjusting readings when necessary. It's explained in passing in An insider’s story of the global attack on climate science:
Quote:
In 1981 as part of my PhD work, I produced a seven-station New Zealand temperature series, known as 7SS, to monitor historic temperature trends and variations from Auckland to as far south as Dunedin in southern New Zealand.

A decade later, in 1991-92 while at the NZ Meteorological Service, I revised the 7SS using a new homogenisation approach to make New Zealand’s temperature records more accurate, such as adjusting for when temperature gauges were moved to new sites.

For example, in 1928 Wellington’s temperature gauge was relocated from an inner suburb near sea level up into the hills at Kelburn, where - due to its higher, cooler location - it recorded much cooler temperatures for the city than before.

With statistical analysis, we could work out how much Wellington’s temperature has really gone up or down since the city’s temperature records began back in 1862, and how much of that change was simply due to the gauge being moved uphill. (You can read more about re-examining NZ temperatures here.)

To pretend that the mere mention of "adjustment" , or "homogenisation" is evidence of the Great Global Warming Conspiracy evinces  some combination of ignorance, stupidity, mendacity and insanity. Which sounds more and more like Watts to me.

All they want is retooling time. It's pause button politics!!

Attack the visible and the invisible... no no... attack the existant and the non-existant yeh thats it!

Grin Huh Huh Huh  Smiley
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*Sure....they're anti competitive as any subsidised job is.  It wouldn't be there without the tax payer.  Very damned difficult for a brainwashed collectivist to understand that I know....  (swaggy) *
 
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