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The Anti-Marriage Equality Lobby (latest news) (Read 5180 times)
gizmo_2655
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Re: The Anti-Marriage Equality Lobby (latest news)
Reply #45 - Jan 10th, 2014 at 12:23pm
 
Datalife wrote on Jan 10th, 2014 at 12:02pm:
gizmo_2655 wrote on Jan 10th, 2014 at 11:50am:
Datalife wrote on Jan 10th, 2014 at 11:29am:
gizmo_2655 wrote on Jan 10th, 2014 at 12:19am:

Not really surprising you haven't heard of it.


Well yeah, that's what I said.  So are you going to provide a reference at all?  Something that I can look up or are you the only source of this bit of history? 


I did, but if you like:
http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/pwh/1979boswell.asp


Well I read your source and there was nothing in there about a same sex marriage ceremony used by the Catholic Church.

See, this is why I wanted to see what you are looking at and basing your assertion on.  Do you have any reference for your claim? 


Sorry, right author, wrong book.
http://books.google.com.au/books/about/Same_sex_unions_in_premodern_Europe.html?...

Can't find an excerpt of it right now, but it is available as a pdf ebook. On second thought, don't try the ebook download, I just hit a malware


also mentioned here:
http://rationalreasons.blogspot.com.au/2005/05/brief-history-of-marriage.html
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"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
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greggerypeccary
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Re: The Anti-Marriage Equality Lobby (latest news)
Reply #46 - Jan 10th, 2014 at 12:26pm
 
gizmo_2655 wrote on Jan 10th, 2014 at 12:23pm:
Datalife wrote on Jan 10th, 2014 at 12:02pm:
gizmo_2655 wrote on Jan 10th, 2014 at 11:50am:
Datalife wrote on Jan 10th, 2014 at 11:29am:
gizmo_2655 wrote on Jan 10th, 2014 at 12:19am:

Not really surprising you haven't heard of it.


Well yeah, that's what I said.  So are you going to provide a reference at all?  Something that I can look up or are you the only source of this bit of history? 


I did, but if you like:
http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/pwh/1979boswell.asp


Well I read your source and there was nothing in there about a same sex marriage ceremony used by the Catholic Church.

See, this is why I wanted to see what you are looking at and basing your assertion on.  Do you have any reference for your claim? 


Sorry, right author, wrong book.
http://books.google.com.au/books/about/Same_sex_unions_in_premodern_Europe.html?...

Can't find an excerpt of it right now, but it is available as a pdf ebook.

also mentioned here:
http://rationalreasons.blogspot.com.au/2005/05/brief-history-of-marriage.html



If he clicks on the picture of the book, he can read a few pages for free:

http://www.amazon.com/Same-Sex-Unions-Premodern-Europe-Boswell/dp/0679751645?tag...
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Datalife
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Re: The Anti-Marriage Equality Lobby (latest news)
Reply #47 - Jan 10th, 2014 at 12:38pm
 
greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 10th, 2014 at 12:18pm:

Read a book or two.



riiiiiiggggghhhhhhhtttttt.  So the best both of you have got is a Simpsons quality assertion that it must be true cos it is in a book but neither of you can actually post a paragraph of what that book states.

Is this what passes for debate on this forum?

Grin Grin Grin Grin

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Soren
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Re: The Anti-Marriage Equality Lobby (latest news)
Reply #48 - Jan 10th, 2014 at 12:38pm
 
Review of John Boswell, Same Sex Unions in Pre-Modern Europe

by Camille Paglia.

Boswell's style, here as in Christianity, Social Tolerance, and Homosexuality, is to pack an enormous amount of dry, irrelevant bibliographic material into scores of footnotes, building a pretentious barricade around his thin and vacillating central presentation. Meanwhile, crucial research is often avoided. For example, one would expect a historian discussing medieval sexuality to at least cursorily consider the enormous "courtly love" tradition, with its inherent perversities, but that is relegated to a footnote, which glibly lists, without explanation, 23 books and articles for us to read. Boswell's knowledge of psychology or general sexual history seems minimal, confined to a handful of chic, narrow academic books cited from the 1980s.

Whatever medieval ceremonies of union he may have found, Boswell has not remotely established that they were originally homosexual in our romantic sense. Their real meaning has yet to be determined. Sacrilegious misuse of such ceremonies may indeed have occurred, leading to their banning, but historians are unjustified in extrapolating backwards and reducing fragmentary evidence to its lowest common denominator. The cause of gay rights, which I support, is not helped by this kind of slippery, self-interested scholarship, where propaganda and casuistry impede the objective search for truth.
http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/pwh/bosrev-paglia.asp

Nuf said.

Paglia, unlike Boswell, is smart, scholarly, insightful.

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greggerypeccary
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Re: The Anti-Marriage Equality Lobby (latest news)
Reply #49 - Jan 10th, 2014 at 12:40pm
 
Datalife wrote on Jan 10th, 2014 at 12:38pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 10th, 2014 at 12:18pm:

Read a book or two.



riiiiiiggggghhhhhhhtttttt.  So the best both of you have got is a Simpsons quality assertion that it must be true cos it is in a book but neither of you can actually post a paragraph of what that book states.

Is this what passes for debate on this forum?

Grin Grin Grin Grin




All you had to say was you don't read books.

We would have believed you.
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greggerypeccary
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Re: The Anti-Marriage Equality Lobby (latest news)
Reply #50 - Jan 10th, 2014 at 12:41pm
 
Soren wrote on Jan 10th, 2014 at 12:38pm:
Review of John Boswell, Same Sex Unions in Pre-Modern Europe

by Camille Paglia.

Boswell's style, here as in Christianity, Social Tolerance, and Homosexuality, is to pack an enormous amount of dry, irrelevant bibliographic material into scores of footnotes, building a pretentious barricade around his thin and vacillating central presentation. Meanwhile, crucial research is often avoided. For example, one would expect a historian discussing medieval sexuality to at least cursorily consider the enormous "courtly love" tradition, with its inherent perversities, but that is relegated to a footnote, which glibly lists, without explanation, 23 books and articles for us to read. Boswell's knowledge of psychology or general sexual history seems minimal, confined to a handful of chic, narrow academic books cited from the 1980s.

Whatever medieval ceremonies of union he may have found, Boswell has not remotely established that they were originally homosexual in our romantic sense. Their real meaning has yet to be determined. Sacrilegious misuse of such ceremonies may indeed have occurred, leading to their banning, but historians are unjustified in extrapolating backwards and reducing fragmentary evidence to its lowest common denominator. The cause of gay rights, which I support, is not helped by this kind of slippery, self-interested scholarship, where propaganda and casuistry impede the objective search for truth.
http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/pwh/bosrev-paglia.asp

Nuf said.

Paglia, unlike Boswell, is smart, scholarly, insightful.




And opinions are like Sorens arseholes.
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Datalife
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Re: The Anti-Marriage Equality Lobby (latest news)
Reply #51 - Jan 10th, 2014 at 12:42pm
 
greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 10th, 2014 at 12:26pm:
   
If he clicks on the picture of the book, he can read a few pages for free:

http://www.amazon.com/Same-Sex-Unions-Premodern-Europe-Boswell/dp/0679751645?tag...


Yes, you can read the index. Anything else?
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"If they’re out there in the high seas, what you would do is seek to turn them back through the agency of the Australian Navy".

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greggerypeccary
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Re: The Anti-Marriage Equality Lobby (latest news)
Reply #52 - Jan 10th, 2014 at 12:45pm
 
Datalife wrote on Jan 10th, 2014 at 12:42pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 10th, 2014 at 12:26pm:
   
If he clicks on the picture of the book, he can read a few pages for free:

http://www.amazon.com/Same-Sex-Unions-Premodern-Europe-Boswell/dp/0679751645?tag...


Yes, you can read the index. Anything else? 



Yes, much more.

Many pages are available when you click on the book.

The pages are very slow to load, but they are certainly there.
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Datalife
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Re: The Anti-Marriage Equality Lobby (latest news)
Reply #53 - Jan 10th, 2014 at 12:45pm
 
greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 10th, 2014 at 12:40pm:
Datalife wrote on Jan 10th, 2014 at 12:38pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 10th, 2014 at 12:18pm:

Read a book or two.



riiiiiiggggghhhhhhhtttttt.  So the best both of you have got is a Simpsons quality assertion that it must be true cos it is in a book but neither of you can actually post a paragraph of what that book states.

Is this what passes for debate on this forum?

Grin Grin Grin Grin




All you had to say was you don't read books.

We would have believed you.


I know who is making themselves look silly and it aint me. 

Most debate forums I go to it is up to the person making the claim to prove it. 

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"If they’re out there in the high seas, what you would do is seek to turn them back through the agency of the Australian Navy".

Kevin Rudd on 2GB, July 12, 2007
 
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gizmo_2655
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Re: The Anti-Marriage Equality Lobby (latest news)
Reply #54 - Jan 10th, 2014 at 12:45pm
 
Soren wrote on Jan 10th, 2014 at 12:38pm:
Review of John Boswell, Same Sex Unions in Pre-Modern Europe

by Camille Paglia.

Boswell's style, here as in Christianity, Social Tolerance, and Homosexuality, is to pack an enormous amount of dry, irrelevant bibliographic material into scores of footnotes, building a pretentious barricade around his thin and vacillating central presentation. Meanwhile, crucial research is often avoided. For example, one would expect a historian discussing medieval sexuality to at least cursorily consider the enormous "courtly love" tradition, with its inherent perversities, but that is relegated to a footnote, which glibly lists, without explanation, 23 books and articles for us to read. Boswell's knowledge of psychology or general sexual history seems minimal, confined to a handful of chic, narrow academic books cited from the 1980s.

Whatever medieval ceremonies of union he may have found, Boswell has not remotely established that they were originally homosexual in our romantic sense. Their real meaning has yet to be determined. Sacrilegious misuse of such ceremonies may indeed have occurred, leading to their banning, but historians are unjustified in extrapolating backwards and reducing fragmentary evidence to its lowest common denominator. The cause of gay rights, which I support, is not helped by this kind of slippery, self-interested scholarship, where propaganda and casuistry impede the objective search for truth.
http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/pwh/bosrev-paglia.asp

Nuf said.

Paglia, unlike Boswell, is smart, scholarly, insightful.



Maybe you should also post the response to Paglia's review?
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"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
Bobbythebat
 
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Datalife
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Re: The Anti-Marriage Equality Lobby (latest news)
Reply #55 - Jan 10th, 2014 at 12:47pm
 
greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 10th, 2014 at 12:45pm:
Yes, much more.

Many pages are available when you click on the book.

The pages are very slow to load, but they are certainly there.


Very good then, toddle off and return with a paragraph or anything from the book about the Catholic Church performing same sex marriages. 

I aint your frigging research agent.   Cool Cool
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"If they’re out there in the high seas, what you would do is seek to turn them back through the agency of the Australian Navy".

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greggerypeccary
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Re: The Anti-Marriage Equality Lobby (latest news)
Reply #56 - Jan 10th, 2014 at 12:50pm
 
Datalife wrote on Jan 10th, 2014 at 12:45pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 10th, 2014 at 12:40pm:
Datalife wrote on Jan 10th, 2014 at 12:38pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 10th, 2014 at 12:18pm:

Read a book or two.



riiiiiiggggghhhhhhhtttttt.  So the best both of you have got is a Simpsons quality assertion that it must be true cos it is in a book but neither of you can actually post a paragraph of what that book states.

Is this what passes for debate on this forum?

Grin Grin Grin Grin




All you had to say was you don't read books.

We would have believed you.


I know who is making themselves look silly and it aint me. 

Most debate forums I go to it is up to the person making the claim to prove it. 




You are looking sillier with each new post you make.

Here is what you requested:

"So are you going to provide a reference at all?  Something that I can look up or are you the only source of this bit of history? "

And, that is exactly what you were provided with.

You're not very good at this, are you?
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gizmo_2655
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Re: The Anti-Marriage Equality Lobby (latest news)
Reply #57 - Jan 10th, 2014 at 12:50pm
 
I'm guessing the concept of church run same-sex marriages upsets your religious sensibilities?
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"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
Bobbythebat
 
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greggerypeccary
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Re: The Anti-Marriage Equality Lobby (latest news)
Reply #58 - Jan 10th, 2014 at 12:52pm
 
Datalife wrote on Jan 10th, 2014 at 12:47pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 10th, 2014 at 12:45pm:
Yes, much more.

Many pages are available when you click on the book.

The pages are very slow to load, but they are certainly there.


Very good then, toddle off and return with a paragraph or anything from the book about the Catholic Church performing same sex marriages. 

I aint your frigging research agent.   Cool Cool



Direct quote from you:

"So are you going to provide a reference at all?  Something that I can look up or are you the only source of this bit of history? "

You're not very good at this, are you?


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Datalife
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Re: The Anti-Marriage Equality Lobby (latest news)
Reply #59 - Jan 10th, 2014 at 1:37pm
 
greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 10th, 2014 at 12:50pm:
Here is what you requested:

"So are you going to provide a reference at all?  Something that I can look up or are you the only source of this bit of history? "

And, that is exactly what you were provided with.
You're not very good at this, are you?


I did look it up, I have looked up all the references provided.

Your reference only gives you the first page and there is nothing there about the Catholic Church performing same sex marriages which you would know if you had bothered to read it yourself. 

You are making yourself look sillier by the post, so please carry on.   Cool
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"If they’re out there in the high seas, what you would do is seek to turn them back through the agency of the Australian Navy".

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