Australian Politics Forum - How Many Australians Are Living In Poverty.

Swagman

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Re: How Many Australians Are Living In Poverty.
Reply #75 - Jan 5^th, 2014 at 3:59pm

Grappler Racist Filth wrote on Jan 5^th, 2014 at 3:52pm:

By the year 1990 no Australian child will be living in Poverty!

But Poverty - that small salt mining town just to the north of the Tasmanian border - was closed down in 1989, and is now a ghost ship town... Pirates of the Tasman - Ghosts of Industries Past.....

**stands on sweeping vista plateau overlooking vast expanses of Inner Australia....

"One day, my son... all these ghost mining towns will be yours!".......

10 out of 10 for perceptiveness Grappler...

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Laugh till you cry Gold Member Offline Posts: 16619 In your happy place Gender:	Re: How Many Australians Are Living In Poverty. Reply #76 - Jan 5^th, 2014 at 5:03pm I want the gigantic holes in the ground to use as trash pits. They will be a gold mine as the trash mountains of the cities become unmanageable.
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Kat

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Re: How Many Australians Are Living In Poverty.
Reply #77 - Jan 5^th, 2014 at 7:45pm

ImSpartacus2 wrote on Jan 5^th, 2014 at 3:45pm:

Swagman wrote on Jan 5^th, 2014 at 3:40pm:

Dnarever wrote on Jan 5^th, 2014 at 3:38pm:

Swagman wrote on Jan 5^th, 2014 at 2:57pm:

ImSpartacus2 wrote on Jan 5^th, 2014 at 2:48pm:

Swagman wrote on Jan 5^th, 2014 at 12:58pm:

Overtime denies the unemployed jobs.

OMG are you saying that its OK to cheat people of their pay for the overtime they do because "Overtime denies the unemployed jobs". Why didn't you think of that before you made them do the overtime? Like I said the bludging culture is rife in the business sector in this country

no, it was clear enough, I said that overtime denies the unemployed jobs...

Management can always employ more people and cut overtime nobody said there was any problem with that approach.

Nobody but the Unions

Rubbish!!! If you believe that its because you're believing your own propaganda

I've often seen calls by the unions for PRECISELY THAT.

It's the employers, not the unions, who are at fault here.

And it's ALL greed-driven.

But the ignorance of the Right doesn't surprise me at all.

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Kat

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Re: How Many Australians Are Living In Poverty.
Reply #78 - Jan 5^th, 2014 at 7:50pm

Laugh till you cry wrote on Jan 5^th, 2014 at 5:03pm:

I want the gigantic holes in the ground to use as trash pits. They will be a gold mine as the trash mountains of the cities become unmanageable.

We used to have a mine near my town, till it closed in the late 1990s.

A major local employer (I worked there myself, as a sub-contractor) and
a major contributor to the local economy.

Now, they're filling it with rubbish trained-in from Sydney.

Benefit to locals... negligible.

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Gnads

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Re: How Many Australians Are Living In Poverty.
Reply #79 - Jan 5^th, 2014 at 7:51pm

Swagman wrote on Jan 5^th, 2014 at 3:40pm:

Dnarever wrote on Jan 5^th, 2014 at 3:38pm:

Swagman wrote on Jan 5^th, 2014 at 2:57pm:

ImSpartacus2 wrote on Jan 5^th, 2014 at 2:48pm:

Swagman wrote on Jan 5^th, 2014 at 12:58pm:

Overtime denies the unemployed jobs.

OMG are you saying that its OK to cheat people of their pay for the overtime they do because "Overtime denies the unemployed jobs". Why didn't you think of that before you made them do the overtime? Like I said the bludging culture is rife in the business sector in this country

no, it was clear enough, I said that overtime denies the unemployed jobs...

So what does "unpaid" overtime do? It denies the employed their right to be paid for their labour. It denies other businesses income because those employees have less to spend. It denies those employees time with their families.

Management can always employ more people and cut overtime nobody said there was any problem with that approach.

Nobody but the Unions

More rubbish...... it has been business ideology for more than 20 years to downsize & employ less staff to do more for less pay.

Your monotonous Union bashing is just the same ol specious argument of an LNP hack.

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"When you are dead, you do not know you are dead. It's only painful and difficult for others. The same applies when you are stupid." ~ Ricky Gervais

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Bam

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Re: How Many Australians Are Living In Poverty.
Reply #80 - Jan 5^th, 2014 at 8:06pm

Swagman wrote on Jan 5^th, 2014 at 12:58pm:

Overtime denies the unemployed jobs.

That needs to be qualified: Unpaid overtime denies the unemployed jobs.

As long as employers are legally allowed to coerce their employees to work as slaves, they have no incentive to employ more staff.

Any form of overtime does this to different degrees, but unpaid overtime is the biggest problem for unemployment. It is a scourge that steals from employees, keeps the unemployed in poverty and for no other purpose than to enrich the company owners unjustly.

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You are not entitled to your opinion. You are only entitled to hold opinions that you can defend through sound, reasoned argument.

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Swagman Gold Member Offline Beware of cheap imitations...... Posts: 15095 Illawarra NSW Gender:	Re: How Many Australians Are Living In Poverty. Reply #81 - Jan 5^th, 2014 at 8:08pm Yeah yeah ok, its the bosses and the Liberal party that have enshrined overtime and penalty rates in labour laws.
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Dnarever

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Re: How Many Australians Are Living In Poverty.
Reply #82 - Jan 5^th, 2014 at 8:10pm

Swagman wrote on Jan 5^th, 2014 at 3:40pm:

Dnarever wrote on Jan 5^th, 2014 at 3:38pm:

Swagman wrote on Jan 5^th, 2014 at 2:57pm:

ImSpartacus2 wrote on Jan 5^th, 2014 at 2:48pm:

Swagman wrote on Jan 5^th, 2014 at 12:58pm:

Overtime denies the unemployed jobs.

OMG are you saying that its OK to cheat people of their pay for the overtime they do because "Overtime denies the unemployed jobs". Why didn't you think of that before you made them do the overtime? Like I said the bludging culture is rife in the business sector in this country

no, it was clear enough, I said that overtime denies the unemployed jobs...

Management can always employ more people and cut overtime nobody said there was any problem with that approach.

Nobody but the Unions

Bet you have no example for that blooper.

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Bam

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Re: How Many Australians Are Living In Poverty.
Reply #83 - Jan 5^th, 2014 at 8:17pm

Dnarever wrote on Jan 5^th, 2014 at 3:38pm:

Swagman wrote on Jan 5^th, 2014 at 2:57pm:

ImSpartacus2 wrote on Jan 5^th, 2014 at 2:48pm:

Swagman wrote on Jan 5^th, 2014 at 12:58pm:

Overtime denies the unemployed jobs.

OMG are you saying that its OK to cheat people of their pay for the overtime they do because "Overtime denies the unemployed jobs". Why didn't you think of that before you made them do the overtime? Like I said the bludging culture is rife in the business sector in this country

no, it was clear enough, I said that overtime denies the unemployed jobs...

Management can always employ more people and cut overtime nobody said there was any problem with that approach.

Indeed.

A company that does it properly can also keep casuals on the books so they only call extra staff in when needed. Some people do not mind this kind of casual work.

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You are not entitled to your opinion. You are only entitled to hold opinions that you can defend through sound, reasoned argument.

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Swagman Gold Member Offline Beware of cheap imitations...... Posts: 15095 Illawarra NSW Gender:	Re: How Many Australians Are Living In Poverty. Reply #84 - Jan 5^th, 2014 at 8:17pm What blooper?
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Gnads

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Re: How Many Australians Are Living In Poverty.
Reply #85 - Jan 5^th, 2014 at 8:19pm

Have you ever read an EBA or been involved in the negotiation of one?

Employers all put ... "there is an expectation that employees will work a reasonable amount of over time" ... never been put in by a Union to my knowledge ...

& yes the Union response to that is that if you want employees to work beyond their "normal" hours of work ... then you are expected to pay the overtime at penalty rates.

Nothing untoward or fairer than that.

So the "overtime" factor is in the hands of employers ... who want to reduce staff ... & have those remaining work overtime to cover for the reduction .... they prefer paying the overtime than employing more people.

And at every turn of the book they are trying not to pay OT penalties ..... & as has been mentioned expect their employees to work unpaid OT... that is they just don't pay it.

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"When you are dead, you do not know you are dead. It's only painful and difficult for others. The same applies when you are stupid." ~ Ricky Gervais

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Swagman Gold Member Offline Beware of cheap imitations...... Posts: 15095 Illawarra NSW Gender:	Re: How Many Australians Are Living In Poverty. Reply #86 - Jan 5^th, 2014 at 8:26pm Ok I'll retract that statement. My humble apologies to all unions.
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Grappler Racist Filth

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Re: How Many Australians Are Living In Poverty.
Reply #87 - Jan 5^th, 2014 at 8:37pm

Swagman wrote on Jan 5^th, 2014 at 3:59pm:

Grappler Racist Filth wrote on Jan 5^th, 2014 at 3:52pm:

By the year 1990 no Australian child will be living in Poverty!

But Poverty - that small salt mining town just to the north of the Tasmanian border - was closed down in 1989, and is now a ghost ship town... Pirates of the Tasman - Ghosts of Industries Past.....

**stands on sweeping vista plateau overlooking vast expanses of Inner Australia....

"One day, my son... all these ghost mining towns will be yours!".......

10 out of 10 for perceptiveness Grappler...

Thank you, Suh - I try to offer a little mirth with a pointy stick....

Sadly - it's true.....

I'm afraid that Clive walking on water in the Galilee Basin will result in a railway to nowhere, and a future ghost town... one day the Outback will be filled with ghost towns.

I had a dream once that I was traveling and chanced upon one, bought it for a song, and turned it into a home for many without....

Must have been dreaming..... A Town Like Malice...

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams

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Grappler Racist Filth

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Re: How Many Australians Are Living In Poverty.
Reply #88 - Jan 5^th, 2014 at 8:44pm

Gnads wrote on Jan 5^th, 2014 at 8:19pm:

Have you ever read an EBA or been involved in the negotiation of one?

Employers all put ... "there is an expectation that employees will work a reasonable amount of over time" ... never been put in by a Union to my knowledge ...

& yes the Union response to that is that if you want employees to work beyond their "normal" hours of work ... then you are expected to pay the overtime at penalty rates.

Nothing untoward or fairer than that.

So the "overtime" factor is in the hands of employers ... who want to reduce staff ... & have those remaining work overtime to cover for the reduction .... they prefer paying the overtime than employing more people.

And at every turn of the book they are trying not to pay OT penalties ..... & as has been mentioned expect their employees to work unpaid OT... that is they just don't pay it.

I have encountered exactly that - all set to start work for a summer season - last minute - oh, sorry - head office has told us not to put anyone on. The girl working there that I was after (sadly got some loser instead) told me they were flat out and could have done with another worker...

All about cutting costs - they imagine - since it cost no more for insurance etc to put on one more, and saves in penalty rates.

There are sure some dumb bean counters around the place...

See - to understand how things like that work you need to be able to do more than sit in front of a computer and hope it will give you an answer... it won't and it can't - garbage in = garbage out.

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams

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Swagman

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Re: How Many Australians Are Living In Poverty.
Reply #89 - Jan 6^th, 2014 at 8:04am

Unpaid overtime works both ways.

As a young fella I was a bank teller. Opening hours (as they are now) were (Mon Thur) 9.30 - 4pm (5pm Fri) but we were supposed to work from 8.30am to 5pm (45 minute lunch).

Our work hours were officially 8hrs a day and we got a roster day once a month.

Most days we'd balance and scoot by 4.15pm but technically we were supposed to work until 5pm. So most days we got paid for 1hr we didn't work.

I guess you'd call this paid under-time.... Grin

This never rates a mention.

Huh

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