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Biggest Rise In Private Health Insurance Premiums. (Read 7967 times)
Dsmithy70
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Re: Biggest Rise In Private Health Insurance Premiums.
Reply #30 - Dec 24th, 2013 at 10:55am
 
longweekend58 wrote on Dec 24th, 2013 at 10:37am:
funding medicare enough to remove gap payments and pay doctors and hospitals the fees that are required would require close to 50% increase in the health budget.



Not that bigger leap when you consider the rebate already equates to 1 third of spending INCLUDING infrastructure

Dsmithy70 wrote on Dec 24th, 2013 at 8:35am:
Each year, the federal government pays health funds more than $5 billion to subsidise health insurance premiums. It is a significant sum of money, more than one-third of the total amount it pays to the states and territories for all health services and infrastructure.


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imcrookonit
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Re: Biggest Rise In Private Health Insurance Premiums.
Reply #31 - Dec 24th, 2013 at 11:14am
 
Little evidence health insurance rebate has achieved savings for consumers      

Date
    December 24, 2013      Sad


Each year, the federal government pays health funds more than $5 billion to subsidise health insurance premiums. It is a significant sum of money, more than one-third of the total amount it pays to the states and territories for all health services and infrastructure.

    A serious re-examination of health funding is required, especially with an ageing population

At $5.4 billion this financial year, rising to $5.91 billion by 2016-17, the money pays for the 30 per cent rebate for most people who take out private health insurance.

The rebate is meant to keep costs down for consumers, but - as evidenced by the 6.2 per cent average increase in premiums announced on Monday - there is precious little evidence the rebate has achieved this in any meaningful way.      


The rebate, introduced in 1999, seemed to keep costs down for its first three years, largely due to a pre-election decision of the Howard government in 2001 to keep premiums flat.

The next year, after being re-elected, premiums were raised more than 10 per cent. Since 1998, the average health insurance premium has risen by 130 per cent, while overall prices have gone up by less than 50 per cent.

Much of the problem lies with how the rebate intersects with other measures to encourage people to take out private health insurance. While the rebate is the carrot, it's the stick of a higher Medicare levy for middle- and high-income earners that prompts most people to take up private insurance.

Coupled with lifetime cover provisions - which penalises people over 30 who have not taken out insurance - it is a pretty big stick.    

But it provides little incentive for health funds and hospitals to become more efficient.

As the stick encourages more people to join health funds, the cost of health insurance, and the rebate, keeps going up. The rebate is a highly circuitous and inefficient way for the government to invest in healthcare. Private health insurers take their cut in profit for essentially redirecting the funding into health spending.

The introduction of the means test for the rebate highlighted how little it affects health fund membership. Amid predictions from health insurers that there would be a mass exodus of members, numbers have actually increased since it was introduced. The truth is that 12.8 million people are covered by health insurance now, compared with 12.4 million when means testing was introduced.

A serious re-examination of health funding is required, especially with an ageing population. The government must investigate whether the rebate works to reduce health costs to consumers. Or makes little difference over the long-term, but at a whopping cost to taxpayers.      Sad

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-opinion/little-evidence-health-insurance-rebate-has-achieved-savings-for-consumers-20131223-2zumz.html#ixzz2oLm1ZkvQ
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longweekend58
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Re: Biggest Rise In Private Health Insurance Premiums.
Reply #32 - Dec 24th, 2013 at 11:17am
 
Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Dec 24th, 2013 at 10:51am:
longweekend58 wrote on Dec 24th, 2013 at 10:41am:
a friend of mine was in private health insurance and had an undiagnosed brain aneurysm. The public system would have sent him home because it wasn't 'serious' enough.  The aneurysm burst in hospital and he was operated on immediately (literally) saving his life.  his recuperations bills topped $300K.

public patient outcome: dead
Private patient outcome: alive


what price insurance?




Sure Dr longweekend

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-mtQyXBhVvOw/T-cg6F4WYWI/AAAAAAAAAKw/twp-TCAIb7Q/s1600/...


naturally you'd have said that.  I had appendicitis - apparently very severe - but I have a condition where my BPR vitals NEVER CHANGE even when I am sick.  I could have a heart attack and by blood pressure remains textbook. I have to advise doctors of it all the time.  because I had no apparent symptoms other than pain the public system would have sent me home to 'wait and see'.  but it burst but because of my private insurance I was in a hospital so I was operated on within 30mins.  If I were in the public system it would have taken  many many hours if not an entire day by which time I would be poisoned throughout my body.  at 35yo I was young enough to survive that but would have been in hospital for a month and off work for a year. 20 years later such an event could actually kill me.

so you wonder why I'm a fan of private insurance?
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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."
 
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John Smith
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Re: Biggest Rise In Private Health Insurance Premiums.
Reply #33 - Dec 24th, 2013 at 11:17am
 
longweekend58 wrote on Dec 24th, 2013 at 10:32am:
Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Dec 24th, 2013 at 8:23am:
woody2014 wrote on Dec 24th, 2013 at 8:11am:
Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Dec 24th, 2013 at 8:05am:
It means more people will opt out, putting an even bigger strain on the public health (non) system.

http://www.rottenecards.com/ecards/rottenecard_91615373_mhmsjjwf3g.png


So you would rather the coy's go broke..And put a larger strain on the public system  Wink Wink Wink Wink Wink



The health insurance companies will do what they do. It means that those that want to stay in a health fund will continue to face substantial  price increases because there will be less customers.

At the moment health insurance is only affordable to middle income earners, like a lot of things that used to be available to everyone but the very impoverished.....electricity is fast becoming a luxury item.

Some essential services should NEVER be privatised.

Now watch the health insurance companies collapse. Keep it affordable or go out of business. They should have learned from the retail sector.



health HASNT been privatised.  if you want to pay nothing and go public then that is yoru right.  But at the same time, people also have the RIGHT to augment their health cover by paying extra for it.  the same argument applies to private education.  neither has been privatised


agree ... they should pay extra for it ...... not the taxman
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longweekend58
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Re: Biggest Rise In Private Health Insurance Premiums.
Reply #34 - Dec 24th, 2013 at 11:18am
 
Quote:
Little evidence health insurance rebate has achieved savings for consumers      

Date
    December 24, 2013      Sad


Each year, the federal government pays health funds more than $5 billion to subsidise health insurance premiums. It is a significant sum of money, more than one-third of the total amount it pays to the states and territories for all health services and infrastructure.

    A serious re-examination of health funding is required, especially with an ageing population

At $5.4 billion this financial year, rising to $5.91 billion by 2016-17, the money pays for the 30 per cent rebate for most people who take out private health insurance.

The rebate is meant to keep costs down for consumers, but - as evidenced by the 6.2 per cent average increase in premiums announced on Monday - there is precious little evidence the rebate has achieved this in any meaningful way.      


The rebate, introduced in 1999, seemed to keep costs down for its first three years, largely due to a pre-election decision of the Howard government in 2001 to keep premiums flat.

The next year, after being re-elected, premiums were raised more than 10 per cent. Since 1998, the average health insurance premium has risen by 130 per cent, while overall prices have gone up by less than 50 per cent.

Much of the problem lies with how the rebate intersects with other measures to encourage people to take out private health insurance. While the rebate is the carrot, it's the stick of a higher Medicare levy for middle- and high-income earners that prompts most people to take up private insurance.

Coupled with lifetime cover provisions - which penalises people over 30 who have not taken out insurance - it is a pretty big stick.    

But it provides little incentive for health funds and hospitals to become more efficient.

As the stick encourages more people to join health funds, the cost of health insurance, and the rebate, keeps going up. The rebate is a highly circuitous and inefficient way for the government to invest in healthcare. Private health insurers take their cut in profit for essentially redirecting the funding into health spending.

The introduction of the means test for the rebate highlighted how little it affects health fund membership. Amid predictions from health insurers that there would be a mass exodus of members, numbers have actually increased since it was introduced. The truth is that 12.8 million people are covered by health insurance now, compared with 12.4 million when means testing was introduced.

A serious re-examination of health funding is required, especially with an ageing population. The government must investigate whether the rebate works to reduce health costs to consumers. Or makes little difference over the long-term, but at a whopping cost to taxpayers.      Sad

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-opinion/little-evidence-health-insurance-rebate-has-achieved-savings-for-consumers-20131223-2zumz.html#ixzz2oLm1ZkvQ


subsidy notwoithstanding, on what planet do you expect a product or service not to go up in price???  EVERYTHING goes up and no subsidy is going to change that  - ever.  it is illogical.
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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."
 
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John Smith
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Re: Biggest Rise In Private Health Insurance Premiums.
Reply #35 - Dec 24th, 2013 at 11:19am
 
longweekend58 wrote on Dec 24th, 2013 at 10:41am:
The aneurysm burst in hospital and he was operated on immediately (literally) saving his life


Bullsh1t ..... if the aneurysm burst while he was in a private hospital the chances are he would have been transferred to a public hospital anyway.
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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.
 
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John Smith
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Re: Biggest Rise In Private Health Insurance Premiums.
Reply #36 - Dec 24th, 2013 at 11:23am
 
longweekend58 wrote on Dec 24th, 2013 at 11:17am:
Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Dec 24th, 2013 at 10:51am:
longweekend58 wrote on Dec 24th, 2013 at 10:41am:
a friend of mine was in private health insurance and had an undiagnosed brain aneurysm. The public system would have sent him home because it wasn't 'serious' enough.  The aneurysm burst in hospital and he was operated on immediately (literally) saving his life.  his recuperations bills topped $300K.

public patient outcome: dead
Private patient outcome: alive


what price insurance?




Sure Dr longweekend

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-mtQyXBhVvOw/T-cg6F4WYWI/AAAAAAAAAKw/twp-TCAIb7Q/s1600/...


naturally you'd have said that.  I had appendicitis - apparently very severe - but I have a condition where my BPR vitals NEVER CHANGE even when I am sick.  I could have a heart attack and by blood pressure remains textbook. I have to advise doctors of it all the time.  because I had no apparent symptoms other than pain the public system would have sent me home to 'wait and see'.  but it burst but because of my private insurance I was in a hospital so I was operated on within 30mins.  If I were in the public system it would have taken  many many hours if not an entire day by which time I would be poisoned throughout my body.  at 35yo I was young enough to survive that but would have been in hospital for a month and off work for a year. 20 years later such an event could actually kill me.

so you wonder why I'm a fan of private insurance?


what a load of rubbish ... the public system deals with thousands of cases of burst appendixes every year?

lucky they all had a private system to fall back on  Grin Grin Grin
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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.
 
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Swagman
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Re: Biggest Rise In Private Health Insurance Premiums.
Reply #37 - Dec 24th, 2013 at 11:29am
 
John Smith wrote on Dec 24th, 2013 at 11:17am:
longweekend58 wrote on Dec 24th, 2013 at 10:32am:
Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Dec 24th, 2013 at 8:23am:
woody2014 wrote on Dec 24th, 2013 at 8:11am:
Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Dec 24th, 2013 at 8:05am:
It means more people will opt out, putting an even bigger strain on the public health (non) system.

http://www.rottenecards.com/ecards/rottenecard_91615373_mhmsjjwf3g.png


So you would rather the coy's go broke..And put a larger strain on the public system  Wink Wink Wink Wink Wink



The health insurance companies will do what they do. It means that those that want to stay in a health fund will continue to face substantial  price increases because there will be less customers.

At the moment health insurance is only affordable to middle income earners, like a lot of things that used to be available to everyone but the very impoverished.....electricity is fast becoming a luxury item.

Some essential services should NEVER be privatised.

Now watch the health insurance companies collapse. Keep it affordable or go out of business. They should have learned from the retail sector.



health HASNT been privatised.  if you want to pay nothing and go public then that is yoru right.  But at the same time, people also have the RIGHT to augment their health cover by paying extra for it.  the same argument applies to private education.  neither has been privatised


agree ... they should pay extra for it ...... not the taxman


Yes but 'they' also shouldn't have to subsidise every body else that don't pay with the medicare tax.
Angry
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longweekend58
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Re: Biggest Rise In Private Health Insurance Premiums.
Reply #38 - Dec 24th, 2013 at 11:42am
 
John Smith wrote on Dec 24th, 2013 at 11:19am:
longweekend58 wrote on Dec 24th, 2013 at 10:41am:
The aneurysm burst in hospital and he was operated on immediately (literally) saving his life


Bullsh1t ..... if the aneurysm burst while he was in a private hospital the chances are he would have been transferred to a public hospital anyway.



LOL how little you know about medicine.  what do you think the time frame for saving the patient is with a burst aneurysm???  3 minutes!!!  they grabbed a neurosurgeon scrubbing up in an adjacent theatre to assist the surgeon because time was of the essence.  why are u of this false delusion that public hospitals are the only ones that do brain surgery?
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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."
 
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longweekend58
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Re: Biggest Rise In Private Health Insurance Premiums.
Reply #39 - Dec 24th, 2013 at 11:44am
 
John Smith wrote on Dec 24th, 2013 at 11:23am:
longweekend58 wrote on Dec 24th, 2013 at 11:17am:
Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Dec 24th, 2013 at 10:51am:
longweekend58 wrote on Dec 24th, 2013 at 10:41am:
a friend of mine was in private health insurance and had an undiagnosed brain aneurysm. The public system would have sent him home because it wasn't 'serious' enough.  The aneurysm burst in hospital and he was operated on immediately (literally) saving his life.  his recuperations bills topped $300K.

public patient outcome: dead
Private patient outcome: alive


what price insurance?




Sure Dr longweekend

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-mtQyXBhVvOw/T-cg6F4WYWI/AAAAAAAAAKw/twp-TCAIb7Q/s1600/...


naturally you'd have said that.  I had appendicitis - apparently very severe - but I have a condition where my BPR vitals NEVER CHANGE even when I am sick.  I could have a heart attack and by blood pressure remains textbook. I have to advise doctors of it all the time.  because I had no apparent symptoms other than pain the public system would have sent me home to 'wait and see'.  but it burst but because of my private insurance I was in a hospital so I was operated on within 30mins.  If I were in the public system it would have taken  many many hours if not an entire day by which time I would be poisoned throughout my body.  at 35yo I was young enough to survive that but would have been in hospital for a month and off work for a year. 20 years later such an event could actually kill me.

so you wonder why I'm a fan of private insurance?


what a load of rubbish ... the public system deals with thousands of cases of burst appendixes every year?

lucky they all had a private system to fall back on  Grin Grin Grin


do u know that a lot of burst appendix KILL the patient??  the very young and very old often don't survive it.  and the point was that my private insurance ensure that I was kept in a hospital bed while a public hospital would not have done so.  and that meant 3 days in hospital instead of a month with a year long rehabilitation.
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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."
 
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longweekend58
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Re: Biggest Rise In Private Health Insurance Premiums.
Reply #40 - Dec 24th, 2013 at 11:45am
 
Swagman wrote on Dec 24th, 2013 at 11:29am:
John Smith wrote on Dec 24th, 2013 at 11:17am:
longweekend58 wrote on Dec 24th, 2013 at 10:32am:
Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Dec 24th, 2013 at 8:23am:
woody2014 wrote on Dec 24th, 2013 at 8:11am:
Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Dec 24th, 2013 at 8:05am:
It means more people will opt out, putting an even bigger strain on the public health (non) system.

http://www.rottenecards.com/ecards/rottenecard_91615373_mhmsjjwf3g.png


So you would rather the coy's go broke..And put a larger strain on the public system  Wink Wink Wink Wink Wink



The health insurance companies will do what they do. It means that those that want to stay in a health fund will continue to face substantial  price increases because there will be less customers.

At the moment health insurance is only affordable to middle income earners, like a lot of things that used to be available to everyone but the very impoverished.....electricity is fast becoming a luxury item.

Some essential services should NEVER be privatised.

Now watch the health insurance companies collapse. Keep it affordable or go out of business. They should have learned from the retail sector.



health HASNT been privatised.  if you want to pay nothing and go public then that is yoru right.  But at the same time, people also have the RIGHT to augment their health cover by paying extra for it.  the same argument applies to private education.  neither has been privatised


agree ... they should pay extra for it ...... not the taxman


Yes but 'they' also shouldn't have to subsidise every body else that don't pay with the medicare tax.
Angry


to be fair, in this case private health claims are paid on TOP of the medicare payments.
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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."
 
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viewpoint
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Re: Biggest Rise In Private Health Insurance Premiums.
Reply #41 - Dec 24th, 2013 at 11:51am
 
longweekend58 wrote on Dec 24th, 2013 at 11:42am:
John Smith wrote on Dec 24th, 2013 at 11:19am:
longweekend58 wrote on Dec 24th, 2013 at 10:41am:
The aneurysm burst in hospital and he was operated on immediately (literally) saving his life


Bullsh1t ..... if the aneurysm burst while he was in a private hospital the chances are he would have been transferred to a public hospital anyway.



LOL how little you know about medicine.  what do you think the time frame for saving the patient is with a burst aneurysm???  3 minutes!!!  they grabbed a neurosurgeon scrubbing up in an adjacent theatre to assist the surgeon because time was of the essence.  why are u of this false delusion that public hospitals are the only ones that do brain surgery? 


I lost my mother after she had a cerebral aneurysm, she was 57 years of age. LW is right, urgent surgery is vital.
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longweekend58
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Re: Biggest Rise In Private Health Insurance Premiums.
Reply #42 - Dec 24th, 2013 at 12:07pm
 
viewpoint wrote on Dec 24th, 2013 at 11:51am:
longweekend58 wrote on Dec 24th, 2013 at 11:42am:
John Smith wrote on Dec 24th, 2013 at 11:19am:
longweekend58 wrote on Dec 24th, 2013 at 10:41am:
The aneurysm burst in hospital and he was operated on immediately (literally) saving his life


Bullsh1t ..... if the aneurysm burst while he was in a private hospital the chances are he would have been transferred to a public hospital anyway.



LOL how little you know about medicine.  what do you think the time frame for saving the patient is with a burst aneurysm???  3 minutes!!!  they grabbed a neurosurgeon scrubbing up in an adjacent theatre to assist the surgeon because time was of the essence.  why are u of this false delusion that public hospitals are the only ones that do brain surgery? 


I lost my mother after she had a cerebral aneurysm, she was 57 years of age. LW is right, urgent surgery is vital.


he was very, very lucky.  if he had been anywhere except a hospital when it burst he would have been toast.  He had no warning until the night before when he couldn't be woken up.  he was 3 weeks after his 40th bday.  not old.
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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."
 
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Re: Biggest Rise In Private Health Insurance Premiums.
Reply #43 - Dec 24th, 2013 at 12:08pm
 
viewpoint wrote on Dec 24th, 2013 at 11:51am:
longweekend58 wrote on Dec 24th, 2013 at 11:42am:
John Smith wrote on Dec 24th, 2013 at 11:19am:
longweekend58 wrote on Dec 24th, 2013 at 10:41am:
The aneurysm burst in hospital and he was operated on immediately (literally) saving his life


Bullsh1t ..... if the aneurysm burst while he was in a private hospital the chances are he would have been transferred to a public hospital anyway.



LOL how little you know about medicine.  what do you think the time frame for saving the patient is with a burst aneurysm???  3 minutes!!!  they grabbed a neurosurgeon scrubbing up in an adjacent theatre to assist the surgeon because time was of the essence.  why are u of this false delusion that public hospitals are the only ones that do brain surgery? 


I lost my mother after she had a cerebral aneurysm, she was 57 years of age. LW is right, urgent surgery is vital.


Yes this is correct but the problem is that the majority of private hospitals will not have a neurosurgeon on site and the most common responce to a critical emergance is to transfer a public hospital.
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longweekend58
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Re: Biggest Rise In Private Health Insurance Premiums.
Reply #44 - Dec 24th, 2013 at 12:18pm
 
Dnarever wrote on Dec 24th, 2013 at 12:08pm:
viewpoint wrote on Dec 24th, 2013 at 11:51am:
longweekend58 wrote on Dec 24th, 2013 at 11:42am:
John Smith wrote on Dec 24th, 2013 at 11:19am:
longweekend58 wrote on Dec 24th, 2013 at 10:41am:
The aneurysm burst in hospital and he was operated on immediately (literally) saving his life


Bullsh1t ..... if the aneurysm burst while he was in a private hospital the chances are he would have been transferred to a public hospital anyway.



LOL how little you know about medicine.  what do you think the time frame for saving the patient is with a burst aneurysm???  3 minutes!!!  they grabbed a neurosurgeon scrubbing up in an adjacent theatre to assist the surgeon because time was of the essence.  why are u of this false delusion that public hospitals are the only ones that do brain surgery? 


I lost my mother after she had a cerebral aneurysm, she was 57 years of age. LW is right, urgent surgery is vital.


Yes this is correct but the problem is that the majority of private hospitals will not have a neurosurgeon on site and the most common responce to a critical emergance is to transfer a public hospital.


actually that isn't true at all.  critical emergencies are not necessarily transferred to public hospitals at all.  they are transferred to wherever the skilled staff are at at the time.  EXCEPT that public patients don't get transferred to private hospitals because they aren't covered.

and no transfer from anywhere will save someone with a burst cerebral aneurysm.  you get 3-5 minutes tops. no longer.
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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."
 
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