Forum

 
  Back to OzPolitic.com   Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register
  Forum Home Album HelpSearch Recent Rules LoginRegister  
 

Pages: 1 ... 8 9 10 11 12 ... 21
Send Topic Print
Pew survey of Muslims' opinions (Read 56167 times)
Karnal
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 97876
Re: Pew survey of Muslims' opinions
Reply #135 - Aug 31st, 2014 at 8:00pm
 
Haven’t you banned this one, FD?

I’m confused. Are we at war with Eurasia or the other one?

Shurely we don’t welcome Freeeedom when it shows the Muselman as remotely human.

Better take this one down, FD. Leave up the other threads with you pontificating on Islam.

At least in those ones you won’t have to answer any questions about what Muslims actually think.
Back to top
« Last Edit: Aug 31st, 2014 at 8:05pm by Karnal »  
 
IP Logged
 
polite_gandalf
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 20027
Canberra
Gender: male
Re: Pew survey of Muslims' opinions
Reply #136 - Aug 31st, 2014 at 8:21pm
 
Its ok K - as long as you just stick to Malaysia - whatever you do don't mention the largest muslim country on earth and their overwhelming rejection for hudud.
Back to top
 

A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:
Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
IP Logged
 
Karnal
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 97876
Re: Pew survey of Muslims' opinions
Reply #137 - Aug 31st, 2014 at 9:02pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 31st, 2014 at 8:21pm:
Its ok K - as long as you just stick to Malaysia - whatever you do don't mention the largest muslim country on earth and their overwhelming rejection for hudud.


Don’t mention Central Asia. Don’t mention Egypt. Don’t mention most Muslim countries.

Very interesting reading, this Pew Survey. Alas, FD has panicked and spilt the beans. A crash and burn approach if you will.

FD , of course, will be most happy to discuss the full survey. Let a hundred flowers bloom, eh?
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Brian Ross
Gold Member
*****
Online


Representative of me

Posts: 43746
Re: Pew survey of Muslims' opinions
Reply #138 - Aug 31st, 2014 at 9:32pm
 
Did you ever answer the question asked in the other thread, FD about whether this was a longitudinal survey or a latitudinal one?   I don't seem to remember an answer.

This survey is an interesting snapshot of Muslim opinions in certain countries (and even the graphs note, many of the opinions are not directly comparable across national boundaries 'cause they asked slightly different questions in different countries), at the time that survey was taken.

Back to top
 

It seems that I have upset a Moderator and are forbidden from using memes. So much for Freedom of Speech. Tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
WWW  
IP Logged
 
freediver
Gold Member
*****
Offline


www.ozpolitic.com

Posts: 49982
At my desk.
Re: Pew survey of Muslims' opinions
Reply #139 - Aug 31st, 2014 at 9:36pm
 
There's always wiggle room, isn't there Brian?
Back to top
 

People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Karnal
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 97876
Re: Pew survey of Muslims' opinions
Reply #140 - Aug 31st, 2014 at 9:43pm
 
freediver wrote on Aug 31st, 2014 at 9:36pm:
There's always wiggle room, isn't there Brian?


We’ll see.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
|dev|null
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 4434
Gender: male
Re: Pew survey of Muslims' opinions
Reply #141 - Sep 1st, 2014 at 11:02am
 
freediver wrote on Aug 31st, 2014 at 9:36pm:
There's always wiggle room, isn't there Brian?


FD you seem to look for absolute certainty in an uncertain universe.   Your attitude appears identical to that of the Muslims you're always criticising!    Grin Grin Grin Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Grin Grin Grin
Back to top
 

"Pens and books are the weapons that defeat terrorism." - Malala Yousefzai, 2013.

"we will never ever solve violence while we grasp for overly simplistic solutions."
Freediver, 2007.
 
IP Logged
 
|dev|null
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 4434
Gender: male
Re: Pew survey of Muslims' opinions
Reply #142 - Sep 1st, 2014 at 11:04am
 
freediver wrote on Aug 31st, 2014 at 9:36pm:
There's always wiggle room, isn't there Brian?


FD, for a man who seems so absolutely certain about the results of this survey why are you ducking Brian's question?   Grin Grin Grin Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Grin Grin Grin
Back to top
 

"Pens and books are the weapons that defeat terrorism." - Malala Yousefzai, 2013.

"we will never ever solve violence while we grasp for overly simplistic solutions."
Freediver, 2007.
 
IP Logged
 
Soren
Gold Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 25654
Gender: male
Re: Pew survey of Muslims' opinions
Reply #143 - Sep 1st, 2014 at 11:40am
 
Brian Ross wrote on Aug 31st, 2014 at 9:32pm:
Did you ever answer the question asked in the other thread, FD about whether this was a longitudinal survey or a latitudinal one?   I don't seem to remember an answer.

This survey is an interesting snapshot of Muslim opinions in certain countries (and even the graphs note, many of the opinions are not directly comparable across national boundaries 'cause they asked slightly different questions in different countries), at the time that survey was taken.




Here's a monthly report:

Raped and Slaughtered: Muslim Persecution of Christians, April, 2014
http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/4666/raped-and-slaughtered-muslim-persecution

Scroll down for previous reports covering

March, 2014
February, 2014
January, 2014
December, 2013
November, 2013
October, 2013
September, 2013
August, 2013
June, 2013
May, 2013
April, 2013
March, 2013
February, 2013
January, 2013
December, 2012
November, 2012
October, 2012
September, 2012
August, 2012
July, 2012
June, 2012
May, 2012
April, 2012
March, 2012
February, 2012
January, 2012
December, 2011
November, 2011
October, 2011
September, 2011
August, 2011



Have a look and let us know if you can join the snapshots, Brain.

Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
|dev|null
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 4434
Gender: male
Re: Pew survey of Muslims' opinions
Reply #144 - Sep 1st, 2014 at 12:37pm
 
You checked out the Gatestone Institute Soren?  It's chairman is John Bolton, Bush's ambassador to the UN who ran interference for Bush during the 2003 invasion of Iraq.  It's board reads like a who's who of conservative Christianity and Zionism and Islamophobia.  It's no wonder you quote them as they reinforce your viewpoint!   Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Grin Grin Grin Grin
Back to top
 

"Pens and books are the weapons that defeat terrorism." - Malala Yousefzai, 2013.

"we will never ever solve violence while we grasp for overly simplistic solutions."
Freediver, 2007.
 
IP Logged
 
Karnal
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 97876
Re: Pew survey of Muslims' opinions
Reply #145 - Sep 1st, 2014 at 12:57pm
 
|dev|null wrote on Sep 1st, 2014 at 11:04am:
freediver wrote on Aug 31st, 2014 at 9:36pm:
There's always wiggle room, isn't there Brian?


FD, for a man who seems so absolutely certain about the results of this survey why are you ducking Brian's question?   Grin Grin Grin Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Grin Grin Grin


FD will duck every question on this topic apart from reported Malaysian attitudes towards apostacy.

But yes, a survey of 38,000 people from all over the world does raise questions. What was the sample size in Malaysia?

Politically, I find Malaysia a bit of an enigma. Malays are generally a very laid-back population, but they've followed a political message about global Islam for years. This message was cleverly exploited by Mahatir, and this makes political sense in a country where the majority Malay population is only about 60%.

Malaysian business is run largely by the ethnic Chinese. The courts are run by ethnic Indians and Sri Lankans. The Malays in parliament wedge their position with a call to global Islam, and in a country where the majority ethnic population is not that big, it's a question of identity politics.

Some Malaysian states take a hard line on Islamic rules, but this generally doesn't effect non-Muslims. I've heard that some local governments punish Muslims for drinking alcohol, for example, but beer is freely available in convenience stores for everyone else. Mind you, it's taxed. Malaysia is probably the most expensive country in South East Asia to buy a beer - apart from Brunei.

Indonesia is quite different. There, Muslims make up the bulk of the population, so the call to political Islam is not so readily leaned on by those in power. Indonesians are not a single ethnic population, like Malays. There are over 300 different ethnic groups in Indonesia, and many languages. People speak their local language first, and Bahasa second. Federal politics in Indonesia have traditionally been run by Javans. With a viable system of political representation in Jakarta now, this is changing, but power is quite dispersed in Indonesia, and quite localized.

What Indonesian politicians do exploit, however, is anti-Chinese sentiment. All through South East Asia, ethnic Chinese princelings control the purse-strings. In some countries, this produces a good deal of resentment. When the water in your town is owned by a foreign company, or when your loan is managed by a foreign bank, or your job relies on foreign funds, people take issue - particulalry in the aftermath of a financial crisis where many lost their local services, savings and jobs. During the Suharto years, Indonesians had no choice but to suck this up. Now it's a demokracy, politicians must cater to the frustrations felt by the electorate, and in Indonesia, these frustrations are aimed largely at the ethnic Chinese - just as in the Sukarno era they were directed at the Western colonists.

In Thailand, the ethnic Chinese assimilated well - they were forced to change their names, etc, by the old Thai monarchy. They also assimilated in the Philippines, but almost everybody assimilated in the Philippines. There, the Spanish forced conversion to Catholicism, followed by the Amerikans forcing school kids to salute the Amerikan flag. Philippinos are quite unique in the region in that they often blame themselves for their problems - the endemic corruption, the foreign ownership, the lack of wealth. This lack of national self esteeem leads to many opting to get out. One of the biggest sources of revenue in the Philippines are the wages sent home by foreign workers.

I would hazzard a guess that Malays - like Muslim Thais - follow a hardline view of Islamic identity because they're a minority. Much of this has to do with security. Unlike Indonesia, Malaysia does not have a big armed force. Unlike Singapore, for example, there is no conscription, and no program of multiculturalism, despite a similar mix of ethnicities. Mahatir was active in global Muslim causes and multilateral organizations, and he did this for financial, trade and domestic political purposes.

It was also a huge success - many skyscrapers in KL were built with Gulf money. And herein lies the other source of hardline Islamification in Malaysia: petrodollars. Mahatir cunningly blended Islamic identity politics with trade deals with the old Pan Arab states.

Malaysia is one of South East Asia's success stories. It's hardline Islamic stance is a confluence of a range of factors, but it definitely hasn't held Malaysia back from economic development. Political development - certainly. Malaysia is one country where it's almost pointless reading a newpaper. Not only are they boring, they only tell you what the ruling party wants you to hear. Malaysia is not a real democracy. However, as a model of political-economics, it has far more in common with Confuscian states like Singapore and China than any Islamic state you can think of (and there's aren't many of them).

Malaysia has succeeded largely due to the willingness of its people to develop economically and let the government do what it does. The old Chinese analogy is to let the ruler hold the head of the cow while you milk it, and this is why the idea of stonings and beheadings and Hudud laws are so ridiculous in Malaysia. They're the sort of political fantasy Australians have when they talk of deporting Muslims and bringing back the death penalty.
Back to top
« Last Edit: Sep 1st, 2014 at 3:41pm by Karnal »  
 
IP Logged
 
Soren
Gold Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 25654
Gender: male
Re: Pew survey of Muslims' opinions
Reply #146 - Sep 1st, 2014 at 12:58pm
 
|dev|null wrote on Sep 1st, 2014 at 12:37pm:
You checked out the Gatestone Institute Soren?  It's chairman is John Bolton, Bush's ambassador to the UN who ran interference for Bush during the 2003 invasion of Iraq.  It's board reads like a who's who of conservative Christianity and Zionism and Islamophobia.  It's no wonder you quote them as they reinforce your viewpoint!   Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Grin Grin Grin Grin



SO these documented reports are not true? Is that what you are saying?



Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Yadda
Gold Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 22113
A cat with a view
Re: Pew survey of Muslims' opinions
Reply #147 - Sep 1st, 2014 at 1:35pm
 
|dev|null wrote on Sep 1st, 2014 at 12:37pm:
You checked out the Gatestone Institute Soren?  It's chairman is John Bolton, Bush's ambassador to the UN who ran interference for Bush during the 2003 invasion of Iraq.  It's board reads like a who's who of conservative Christianity and Zionism and Islamophobia.  It's no wonder you quote them as they reinforce your viewpoint!   Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Grin Grin Grin Grin



HB,

Why don't you go and look at the information on the
Gatestone Institute
site, and make a list of all of the misinformation you find there.

You know, all of the items that you consider to be slandering ISLAM and spreading 'Islamophobia'.

Then come back here and 'enlighten' us.




HB,

After you have finished with teh
Gatestone Institute
, you can then go here too.....

THE RELIGION OF PEACE

http://thereligionofpeace.com/


I want you to list all of the items at
THE RELIGION OF PEACE
site that you consider to be slandering ISLAM and spreading 'Islamophobia'.

Why ?


Because i already went and had a look at those two sites, and i just could not find any information that was 'misrepresenting' ISLAM and moslems.

But i know that you will 'hunt them all out' for us, if they in fact exist.

Cheesy



Back to top
 

"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31
 
IP Logged
 
|dev|null
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 4434
Gender: male
Re: Pew survey of Muslims' opinions
Reply #148 - Sep 1st, 2014 at 1:53pm
 
Quote:
Analyses
Conservatism

The organization describes itself as a "non-partisan" on its about page on their website.[7] Sheila Musaji's The American Muslim describes Gatestone as "neo-con".[49] LGBT Gay Star News describes Gatestone as "conservative".[50]
Criticism

The Institute for Policy Studies has noted that "[t]he institute was founded in 2011 by Nina Rosenwald, an heiress of the Sears Roebuck empire who has been a key philanthropic backer of anti-Muslim groups and individuals in the United States".[51] Sheila Musaji's The American Muslim includes it and Nina Rosenwald in a Who’s Who of the Anti-Muslim/Anti-Arab/Islamophobia Industry,[52] Ali Gharib, of the blog Open Zion, describes it as "a spin-off of the Hudson Institute where right-wingers (along with Alan Dershowitz) champion hawkish, often "pro-Israel" policies and, not infrequently, rattle off Islamophobic blogposts."[53]

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gatestone_Institute#Analyses]

Appears my analysis is supported by others.  It is not what it reports but the method and means by which it reports it Yadda and Soren.   Of course, you'd perceive no bias  because you are biased in that direction, you therefore accept what they say as being true whereas anybody who is more objective does not.    Grin Grin Grin Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Grin Grin Grin
Back to top
 

"Pens and books are the weapons that defeat terrorism." - Malala Yousefzai, 2013.

"we will never ever solve violence while we grasp for overly simplistic solutions."
Freediver, 2007.
 
IP Logged
 
Soren
Gold Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 25654
Gender: male
Re: Pew survey of Muslims' opinions
Reply #149 - Sep 1st, 2014 at 2:38pm
 
|dev|null wrote on Sep 1st, 2014 at 1:53pm:
Quote:
Analyses
Conservatism

The organization describes itself as a "non-partisan" on its about page on their website.[7] Sheila Musaji's The American Muslim describes Gatestone as "neo-con".[49] LGBT Gay Star News describes Gatestone as "conservative".[50]
Criticism

The Institute for Policy Studies has noted that "[t]he institute was founded in 2011 by Nina Rosenwald, an heiress of the Sears Roebuck empire who has been a key philanthropic backer of anti-Muslim groups and individuals in the United States".[51] Sheila Musaji's The American Muslim includes it and Nina Rosenwald in a Who’s Who of the Anti-Muslim/Anti-Arab/Islamophobia Industry,[52] Ali Gharib, of the blog Open Zion, describes it as "a spin-off of the Hudson Institute where right-wingers (along with Alan Dershowitz) champion hawkish, often "pro-Israel" policies and, not infrequently, rattle off Islamophobic blogposts."[53]

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gatestone_Institute#Analyses]

Appears my analysis is supported by others.  It is not what it reports but the method and means by which it reports it Yadda and Soren.   Of course, you'd perceive no bias  because you are biased in that direction, you therefore accept what they say as being true whereas anybody who is more objective does not.    Grin Grin Grin Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Grin Grin Grin



In what way are the reports biased?
I see no bias in Raymond Ibrahim's reporting - unless you regards the reporting of Muslims violence against Christians itself as a biased act.

Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Pages: 1 ... 8 9 10 11 12 ... 21
Send Topic Print