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Will Malcolm be man enough (Read 7570 times)
sir prince duke alevine
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Re: Will Malcolm be man enough
Reply #45 - Dec 21st, 2013 at 7:34pm  
longweekend58 wrote on Dec 20th, 2013 at 5:42pm:
longweekend58 wrote on Dec 20th, 2013 at 5:41pm:
Bam wrote on Dec 20th, 2013 at 5:22pm:
longweekend58 wrote on Dec 20th, 2013 at 11:48am:
Dsmithy70 wrote on Dec 20th, 2013 at 11:37am:
11. The NBN will only ever be used for Porn & Pirating TV shows - Longweekend58 20/12/2013



the difference is that all the above were NEW technologies and while they sound amusing and embarrassing today what you don't read about is the 1000 other such comments which were... true.

The NBN is not new technology at all and is simply an incremental change to an existing one.  Not dissimilar to rebuilding the nations roads and building lane freeways everywhere - including down every suburban street.

but if you are so clever than you too can go to the experience of all these other countries and states etc with a FTTH network in place and tell me of all the amazing industries that have sprung up overnight and all the amazing new technologies that have been developed that cant run on ADSL.

There's a difference between "can't run" and "can run but impractical". I doubt you've learned it yet.

Here's one example. It is now possible to back up your hard disk onto disk space hosted by a remote server. Suppose someone has 250Gb to back up. With 25 Mb/s, that backup would take about three hours to complete. With 1 Gb/s, that backup would be complete in about four minutes.

Assume that this is important business data - payroll, etc. There are real costs here. For a four-minute backup, it can be completed in the time it takes to prepare a cup of coffee. For a three-hour backup, that would be far more disruptive. If the files need to be closed to do the backup, then it can only be done after hours, which means paying someone to stay behind for three hours after everyone else is gone, which means the option is definitely in the "impractical" category.

Furthermore, with 25Mb/s, the most that can be backed up daily in this way is a bit more than 2 terabytes - roughly the capacity of a modern hard disk. So forget backing up 2 Tb daily at 25 Mb/s, it's impractical. At 1Gb/s, that backup is complete in about half an hour. That is also assuming that the user doesn't exceed upload limits.

Of course, it's a waste of time discussing benefits of high-speed broadband with you because you obviously adhere to a religious belief that whatever we can do with high speed broadband is either porn, illegal movies, can be done on ADSL, or are exaggerated.

Quote:
You might come up with the amazing revelation that DEloitte came up with that we will be able to do... online shopping.  Spare us from the stupidity of such people!

You must live in an interesting world. Do the roars of the dinosaurs keep you awake at night?



then why don't you ask yourself why Deloitte came up with such a gobsmackingly dumb statement?  That's the real question because it seems to imply they were casting about for reasons and the best they could find was this.


Yes but bam has the point that backing up over an adsl link is virtually impossible.  For business, ftth would've made a whole lot of cheaper sense.  Oh well, goodbye productivity because longy only wonders about porn.



You've never heard of scheduled backups before done by a server or PC without user intervention???  tyr Goodsync for starters.

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Disclaimer for Mothra per POST so it is forever acknowledged: Saying 'Islam' or 'Muslims' doesn't mean ALL muslims. This does not target individual muslims who's opinion I am not aware of.
 
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longweekend58
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Re: Will Malcolm be man enough
Reply #46 - Dec 21st, 2013 at 7:43pm  
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Dec 21st, 2013 at 7:34pm:
longweekend58 wrote on Dec 20th, 2013 at 5:42pm:
longweekend58 wrote on Dec 20th, 2013 at 5:41pm:
Bam wrote on Dec 20th, 2013 at 5:22pm:
longweekend58 wrote on Dec 20th, 2013 at 11:48am:
Dsmithy70 wrote on Dec 20th, 2013 at 11:37am:
11. The NBN will only ever be used for Porn & Pirating TV shows - Longweekend58 20/12/2013



the difference is that all the above were NEW technologies and while they sound amusing and embarrassing today what you don't read about is the 1000 other such comments which were... true.

The NBN is not new technology at all and is simply an incremental change to an existing one.  Not dissimilar to rebuilding the nations roads and building lane freeways everywhere - including down every suburban street.

but if you are so clever than you too can go to the experience of all these other countries and states etc with a FTTH network in place and tell me of all the amazing industries that have sprung up overnight and all the amazing new technologies that have been developed that cant run on ADSL.

There's a difference between "can't run" and "can run but impractical". I doubt you've learned it yet.

Here's one example. It is now possible to back up your hard disk onto disk space hosted by a remote server. Suppose someone has 250Gb to back up. With 25 Mb/s, that backup would take about three hours to complete. With 1 Gb/s, that backup would be complete in about four minutes.

Assume that this is important business data - payroll, etc. There are real costs here. For a four-minute backup, it can be completed in the time it takes to prepare a cup of coffee. For a three-hour backup, that would be far more disruptive. If the files need to be closed to do the backup, then it can only be done after hours, which means paying someone to stay behind for three hours after everyone else is gone, which means the option is definitely in the "impractical" category.

Furthermore, with 25Mb/s, the most that can be backed up daily in this way is a bit more than 2 terabytes - roughly the capacity of a modern hard disk. So forget backing up 2 Tb daily at 25 Mb/s, it's impractical. At 1Gb/s, that backup is complete in about half an hour. That is also assuming that the user doesn't exceed upload limits.

Of course, it's a waste of time discussing benefits of high-speed broadband with you because you obviously adhere to a religious belief that whatever we can do with high speed broadband is either porn, illegal movies, can be done on ADSL, or are exaggerated.

Quote:
You might come up with the amazing revelation that DEloitte came up with that we will be able to do... online shopping.  Spare us from the stupidity of such people!

You must live in an interesting world. Do the roars of the dinosaurs keep you awake at night?



then why don't you ask yourself why Deloitte came up with such a gobsmackingly dumb statement?  That's the real question because it seems to imply they were casting about for reasons and the best they could find was this.


Yes but bam has the point that backing up over an adsl link is virtually impossible.  For business, ftth would've made a whole lot of cheaper sense.  Oh well, goodbye productivity because longy only wonders about porn.



You've never heard of scheduled backups before done by a server or PC without user intervention???  tyr Goodsync for starters.




it is not only NOT impossible, people have been doing it for years.  Many years in my case.  And it works well.  Once again, the point is not that FTTH would be faster but rather to put an economic benefit on it.  Backing up faster to the cloud would have a close to zero benefit since it is done out of business hours anyhow. And that is before you even ask the question of why you are backing up to the cloud when physical media is faster and more reliable than internet storage will ever be.

I can make all the productivity arguments you want.  But so fare the NBN Fanatics have done a pretty poor job of doing once for their case.  Backup to the cloud??? that's it???  $100B for a network so you can backup faster???

I am sure that in an earlier time you would have been like the rest of the stupid talking about the 'future of computing' ie diskless workstations and network computers - computers with no storage.  After all, we all just upload and download form the internet, right?  every time we want to start MS Word we just wait 5-10mins while the app downloads... every time.  Those ideas died a miserable death because they were stupid, but most tech-heads embraced it with a  passion.  I said it was stupid at the time and was howled down.  I was right.  I see the same argument here.
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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."
 
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sir prince duke alevine
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Re: Will Malcolm be man enough
Reply #47 - Dec 21st, 2013 at 7:44pm  
longweekend58 wrote on Dec 21st, 2013 at 7:43pm:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Dec 21st, 2013 at 7:34pm:
longweekend58 wrote on Dec 20th, 2013 at 5:42pm:
longweekend58 wrote on Dec 20th, 2013 at 5:41pm:
Bam wrote on Dec 20th, 2013 at 5:22pm:
longweekend58 wrote on Dec 20th, 2013 at 11:48am:
Dsmithy70 wrote on Dec 20th, 2013 at 11:37am:
11. The NBN will only ever be used for Porn & Pirating TV shows - Longweekend58 20/12/2013



the difference is that all the above were NEW technologies and while they sound amusing and embarrassing today what you don't read about is the 1000 other such comments which were... true.

The NBN is not new technology at all and is simply an incremental change to an existing one.  Not dissimilar to rebuilding the nations roads and building lane freeways everywhere - including down every suburban street.

but if you are so clever than you too can go to the experience of all these other countries and states etc with a FTTH network in place and tell me of all the amazing industries that have sprung up overnight and all the amazing new technologies that have been developed that cant run on ADSL.

There's a difference between "can't run" and "can run but impractical". I doubt you've learned it yet.

Here's one example. It is now possible to back up your hard disk onto disk space hosted by a remote server. Suppose someone has 250Gb to back up. With 25 Mb/s, that backup would take about three hours to complete. With 1 Gb/s, that backup would be complete in about four minutes.

Assume that this is important business data - payroll, etc. There are real costs here. For a four-minute backup, it can be completed in the time it takes to prepare a cup of coffee. For a three-hour backup, that would be far more disruptive. If the files need to be closed to do the backup, then it can only be done after hours, which means paying someone to stay behind for three hours after everyone else is gone, which means the option is definitely in the "impractical" category.

Furthermore, with 25Mb/s, the most that can be backed up daily in this way is a bit more than 2 terabytes - roughly the capacity of a modern hard disk. So forget backing up 2 Tb daily at 25 Mb/s, it's impractical. At 1Gb/s, that backup is complete in about half an hour. That is also assuming that the user doesn't exceed upload limits.

Of course, it's a waste of time discussing benefits of high-speed broadband with you because you obviously adhere to a religious belief that whatever we can do with high speed broadband is either porn, illegal movies, can be done on ADSL, or are exaggerated.

Quote:
You might come up with the amazing revelation that DEloitte came up with that we will be able to do... online shopping.  Spare us from the stupidity of such people!

You must live in an interesting world. Do the roars of the dinosaurs keep you awake at night?



then why don't you ask yourself why Deloitte came up with such a gobsmackingly dumb statement?  That's the real question because it seems to imply they were casting about for reasons and the best they could find was this.


Yes but bam has the point that backing up over an adsl link is virtually impossible.  For business, ftth would've made a whole lot of cheaper sense.  Oh well, goodbye productivity because longy only wonders about porn.



You've never heard of scheduled backups before done by a server or PC without user intervention???  tyr Goodsync for starters.




it is not only NOT impossible, people have been doing it for years.  Many years in my case.  And it works well.  Once again, the point is not that FTTH would be faster but rather to put an economic benefit on it.  Backing up faster to the cloud would have a close to zero benefit since it is done out of business hours anyhow. And that is before you even ask the question of why you are backing up to the cloud when physical media is faster and more reliable than internet storage will ever be.

I can make all the productivity arguments you want.  But so fare the NBN Fanatics have done a pretty poor job of doing once for their case.  Backup to the cloud??? that's it???  $100B for a network so you can backup faster???

I am sure that in an earlier time you would have been like the rest of the stupid talking about the 'future of computing' ie diskless workstations and network computers - computers with no storage.  After all, we all just upload and download form the internet, right?  every time we want to start MS Word we just wait 5-10mins while the app downloads... every time.  Those ideas died a miserable death because they were stupid, but most tech-heads embraced it with a  passion.  I said it was stupid at the time and was howled down.  I was right.  I see the same argument here. 



How much data do you backup each night?
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Disclaimer for Mothra per POST so it is forever acknowledged: Saying 'Islam' or 'Muslims' doesn't mean ALL muslims. This does not target individual muslims who's opinion I am not aware of.
 
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longweekend58
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Re: Will Malcolm be man enough
Reply #48 - Dec 21st, 2013 at 7:50pm  
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Dec 21st, 2013 at 7:44pm:
longweekend58 wrote on Dec 21st, 2013 at 7:43pm:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Dec 21st, 2013 at 7:34pm:
longweekend58 wrote on Dec 20th, 2013 at 5:42pm:
longweekend58 wrote on Dec 20th, 2013 at 5:41pm:
Bam wrote on Dec 20th, 2013 at 5:22pm:
longweekend58 wrote on Dec 20th, 2013 at 11:48am:
Dsmithy70 wrote on Dec 20th, 2013 at 11:37am:
11. The NBN will only ever be used for Porn & Pirating TV shows - Longweekend58 20/12/2013



the difference is that all the above were NEW technologies and while they sound amusing and embarrassing today what you don't read about is the 1000 other such comments which were... true.

The NBN is not new technology at all and is simply an incremental change to an existing one.  Not dissimilar to rebuilding the nations roads and building lane freeways everywhere - including down every suburban street.

but if you are so clever than you too can go to the experience of all these other countries and states etc with a FTTH network in place and tell me of all the amazing industries that have sprung up overnight and all the amazing new technologies that have been developed that cant run on ADSL.

There's a difference between "can't run" and "can run but impractical". I doubt you've learned it yet.

Here's one example. It is now possible to back up your hard disk onto disk space hosted by a remote server. Suppose someone has 250Gb to back up. With 25 Mb/s, that backup would take about three hours to complete. With 1 Gb/s, that backup would be complete in about four minutes.


Furthermore, with 25Mb/s, the most that can be backed up daily in this way is a bit more than 2 terabytes - roughly the capacity of a modern hard disk. So forget backing up 2 Tb daily at 25 Mb/s, it's impractical. At 1Gb/s, that backup is complete in about half an hour. That is also assuming that the user doesn't exceed upload limits.

Of course, it's a waste of time discussing benefits of high-speed broadband with you because you obviously adhere to a religious belief that whatever we can do with high speed broadband is either porn, illegal movies, can be done on ADSL, or are exaggerated.

Quote:
You might come up with the amazing revelation that DEloitte came up with that we will be able to do... online shopping.  Spare us from the stupidity of such people!

You must live in an interesting world. Do the roars of the dinosaurs keep you awake at night?



then why don't you ask yourself why Deloitte came up with such a gobsmackingly dumb statement?  That's the real question because it seems to imply they were casting about for reasons and the best they could find was this.


Yes but bam has the point that backing up over an adsl link is virtually impossible.  For business, ftth would've made a whole lot of cheaper sense.  Oh well, goodbye productivity because longy only wonders about porn.



You've never heard of scheduled backups before done by a server or PC without user intervention???  tyr Goodsync for starters.




it is not only NOT impossible, people have been doing it for years.  Many years in my case.  And it works well.  Once again, the point is not that FTTH would be faster but rather to put an economic benefit on it.  Backing up faster to the cloud would have a close to zero benefit since it is done out of business hours anyhow. And that is before you even ask the question of why you are backing up to the cloud when physical media is faster and more reliable than internet storage will ever be.

I can make all the productivity arguments you want.  But so fare the NBN Fanatics have done a pretty poor job of doing once for their case.  Backup to the cloud??? that's it???  $100B for a network so you can backup faster???

I am sure that in an earlier time you would have been like the rest of the stupid talking about the 'future of computing' ie diskless workstations and network computers - computers with no storage.  After all, we all just upload and download form the internet, right?  every time we want to start MS Word we just wait 5-10mins while the app downloads... every time.  Those ideas died a miserable death because they were stupid, but most tech-heads embraced it with a  passion.  I said it was stupid at the time and was howled down.  I was right.  I see the same argument here. 



How much data do you backup each night?


60-100Gb.  of course I back up CHANGES ONLY - a factor that has been embarrassingly missing from the debate and it crucial to any form of network management.
Back to top
 
AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."
 
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sir prince duke alevine
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Re: Will Malcolm be man enough
Reply #49 - Dec 21st, 2013 at 7:52pm  
longweekend58 wrote on Dec 21st, 2013 at 7:50pm:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Dec 21st, 2013 at 7:44pm:
longweekend58 wrote on Dec 21st, 2013 at 7:43pm:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Dec 21st, 2013 at 7:34pm:
longweekend58 wrote on Dec 20th, 2013 at 5:42pm:
longweekend58 wrote on Dec 20th, 2013 at 5:41pm:
Bam wrote on Dec 20th, 2013 at 5:22pm:
longweekend58 wrote on Dec 20th, 2013 at 11:48am:
Dsmithy70 wrote on Dec 20th, 2013 at 11:37am:
11. The NBN will only ever be used for Porn & Pirating TV shows - Longweekend58 20/12/2013



the difference is that all the above were NEW technologies and while they sound amusing and embarrassing today what you don't read about is the 1000 other such comments which were... true.

The NBN is not new technology at all and is simply an incremental change to an existing one.  Not dissimilar to rebuilding the nations roads and building lane freeways everywhere - including down every suburban street.

but if you are so clever than you too can go to the experience of all these other countries and states etc with a FTTH network in place and tell me of all the amazing industries that have sprung up overnight and all the amazing new technologies that have been developed that cant run on ADSL.

There's a difference between "can't run" and "can run but impractical". I doubt you've learned it yet.

Here's one example. It is now possible to back up your hard disk onto disk space hosted by a remote server. Suppose someone has 250Gb to back up. With 25 Mb/s, that backup would take about three hours to complete. With 1 Gb/s, that backup would be complete in about four minutes.


Furthermore, with 25Mb/s, the most that can be backed up daily in this way is a bit more than 2 terabytes - roughly the capacity of a modern hard disk. So forget backing up 2 Tb daily at 25 Mb/s, it's impractical. At 1Gb/s, that backup is complete in about half an hour. That is also assuming that the user doesn't exceed upload limits.

Of course, it's a waste of time discussing benefits of high-speed broadband with you because you obviously adhere to a religious belief that whatever we can do with high speed broadband is either porn, illegal movies, can be done on ADSL, or are exaggerated.

Quote:
You might come up with the amazing revelation that DEloitte came up with that we will be able to do... online shopping.  Spare us from the stupidity of such people!

You must live in an interesting world. Do the roars of the dinosaurs keep you awake at night?



then why don't you ask yourself why Deloitte came up with such a gobsmackingly dumb statement?  That's the real question because it seems to imply they were casting about for reasons and the best they could find was this.


Yes but bam has the point that backing up over an adsl link is virtually impossible.  For business, ftth would've made a whole lot of cheaper sense.  Oh well, goodbye productivity because longy only wonders about porn.



You've never heard of scheduled backups before done by a server or PC without user intervention???  tyr Goodsync for starters.




it is not only NOT impossible, people have been doing it for years.  Many years in my case.  And it works well.  Once again, the point is not that FTTH would be faster but rather to put an economic benefit on it.  Backing up faster to the cloud would have a close to zero benefit since it is done out of business hours anyhow. And that is before you even ask the question of why you are backing up to the cloud when physical media is faster and more reliable than internet storage will ever be.

I can make all the productivity arguments you want.  But so fare the NBN Fanatics have done a pretty poor job of doing once for their case.  Backup to the cloud??? that's it???  $100B for a network so you can backup faster???

I am sure that in an earlier time you would have been like the rest of the stupid talking about the 'future of computing' ie diskless workstations and network computers - computers with no storage.  After all, we all just upload and download form the internet, right?  every time we want to start MS Word we just wait 5-10mins while the app downloads... every time.  Those ideas died a miserable death because they were stupid, but most tech-heads embraced it with a  passion.  I said it was stupid at the time and was howled down.  I was right.  I see the same argument here. 



How much data do you backup each night?


60-100Gb.  of course I back up CHANGES ONLY - a factor that has been embarrassingly missing from the debate and it crucial to any form of network management.


Now try to back up 280Gb OF CHANGES ONLY over the course of one night over a 20 Mbps ADSL2 link and lets see how you go Smiley

The point is the constraints. For you it may work well, but it's constrained to a limit that for many, MANY, small-medium sized businesses it doesn't work.

Try argue with an overall view of the issue, not on just personal experience being the norm
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Disclaimer for Mothra per POST so it is forever acknowledged: Saying 'Islam' or 'Muslims' doesn't mean ALL muslims. This does not target individual muslims who's opinion I am not aware of.
 
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sir prince duke alevine
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Re: Will Malcolm be man enough
Reply #50 - Dec 21st, 2013 at 7:54pm  
and let me ask you, wouldn't you agree that you backup CHANGES ONLY depending on how fast you can restore a full image?

And if thats the case, then surely you'd agree at times it warrants to do a FULL backup. And if that';s the case, good luck with your link.
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Disclaimer for Mothra per POST so it is forever acknowledged: Saying 'Islam' or 'Muslims' doesn't mean ALL muslims. This does not target individual muslims who's opinion I am not aware of.
 
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Cliff48
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Re: Will Malcolm be man enough
Reply #51 - Dec 22nd, 2013 at 11:08am  
Also Alevine, for uploads you don't get 20mbps, typically its 1-2mBITSps.  So Gigabyte backups are truly out of the question.

Longweekend (who claims to be an IT professional) advocates backing up to physical media, whereas every professional organisation I worked for created offsite backups (for the obvious reasons of fire or other possible damage).

Its not just business users that should have backups.  Over the years I have accumulated gigabytes of files (documents, emails, photos, videos) mainly to do with my family or my personal business contracts, warranties, etc.  The loss of the files would be devastating, so apart from having a physical media backup, its very reassuring to have a cloud backup as well.

Before Longweekend jumps up and down saying that the cost of FTTH can't be justified on cloud backups = I agree wholeheartedly.  But by his logic, why should the government even be involved at all?

FTTH (or even FTTN) cannot be justified on any individual application for personal use.  But it is clear that the government (as a generic term not just Labor/Liberal) fully endorses the use of electronic communications for all. Centrelink, Medicare, AEC  to mention just a few.  The take up of electronic communications has been staggering growth in government, commercial and the pubic sector.

Since private enterprise is not capable of setting up a nationwide network (to ensure its availability to all) it has fallen on the government to do so.  To replace a copper network partially with fibre that gives no benefit to existing users is just an expensive joke.
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longweekend58
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Re: Will Malcolm be man enough
Reply #52 - Dec 22nd, 2013 at 1:10pm  
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Dec 21st, 2013 at 7:52pm:
longweekend58 wrote on Dec 21st, 2013 at 7:50pm:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Dec 21st, 2013 at 7:44pm:
longweekend58 wrote on Dec 21st, 2013 at 7:43pm:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Dec 21st, 2013 at 7:34pm:
longweekend58 wrote on Dec 20th, 2013 at 5:42pm:
longweekend58 wrote on Dec 20th, 2013 at 5:41pm:
[quote author=bam68 link=1387471134/34#34 date=1387524133][quote author=longweekend58 link=1387471134/17#17 date=1387504129][quote author=dsmithy70 link=1387471134/16#16 date=1387503479]
11. The NBN will only ever be used for Porn & Pirating TV shows - Longweekend58 20/12/2013



the difference is that all the above were NEW technologies and while they sound amusing and embarrassing today what you don't read about is the 1000 other such comments which were... true.

complete in about half an hour. That is also assuming that the user doesn't exceed upload limits.

Of course, it's a waste of time discussing benefits of high-speed broadband with you because you obviously adhere to a religious belief that whatever we can do with high speed broadband is either porn, illegal movies, can be done on ADSL, or are exaggerated.

Quote:
You might come up with the amazing revelation that DEloitte came up with that we will be able to do... online shopping.  Spare us from the stupidity of such people!

You must live in an interesting world. Do the roars of the dinosaurs keep you awake at night?



You've never heard of scheduled backups before done by a server or PC without user intervention???  tyr Goodsync for starters.



it is not only NOT impossible, people have been doing it for years.  Many years in my case.  And it works well.  Once again, the point is not that FTTH would be faster but rather to put an economic benefit on it.  Backing up faster to the cloud would have a close to zero benefit since it is done out of business hours anyhow. And that is before you even ask the question of why you are backing up to the cloud when physical media is faster and more reliable than internet storage will ever be.

I can make all the productivity arguments you want.  But so fare the NBN Fanatics have done a pretty poor job of doing once for their case.  Backup to the cloud??? that's it???  $100B for a network so you can backup faster???

I am sure that in an earlier time you would have been like the rest of the stupid talking about the 'future of computing' ie diskless workstations and network computers - computers with no storage.  After all, we all just upload and download form the internet, right?  every time we want to start MS Word we just wait 5-10mins while the app downloads... every time.  Those ideas died a miserable death because they were stupid, but most tech-heads embraced it with a  passion.  I said it was stupid at the time and was howled down.  I was right.  I see the same argument here. 



How much data do you backup each night?


60-100Gb.  of course I back up CHANGES ONLY - a factor that has been embarrassingly missing from the debate and it crucial to any form of network management.


Now try to back up 280Gb OF CHANGES ONLY over the course of one night over a 20 Mbps ADSL2 link and lets see how you go Smiley

The point is the constraints. For you it may work well, but it's constrained to a limit that for many, MANY, small-medium sized businesses it doesn't work.

Try argue with an overall view


There are TWO problems with your post. 

1) Why backup to the cloud at all?  Its the same question I ask of the NBN - why - and no one can answer.  On-site backup with always be orders of magnitude faster than any internet system therefore begging the question of why do it at all.  Perhaps for a few residential users wanting to backup their photos perhaps  but that's hardly a compelling argument for it.  If you REALLY need to back up 260Gb of data each and every night to a internet cloud server then you are either in love with technology for its own sake or should buy a fiber connection to cover it.

b) even assuming your argument is valid, exactly how many residential or small business users are going to need that?  0.1%?  less?  and medium to large business will already have their own back systems in place.


but a further observation is that you seem to be supporting a notion because it is possible, not because it poses an economic benefit.  The cloud is very valuable but it is - like all new technologies - hopelessly over-hyped leading people to think that MUST be on the cloud... 'whatever that is' (and I've heard that exact statement - word for word.
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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."
 
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longweekend58
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Re: Will Malcolm be man enough
Reply #53 - Dec 22nd, 2013 at 1:12pm  
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Dec 21st, 2013 at 7:54pm:
and let me ask you, wouldn't you agree that you backup CHANGES ONLY depending on how fast you can restore a full image?

And if thats the case, then surely you'd agree at times it warrants to do a FULL backup. And if that';s the case, good luck with your link.


its pretty easy using local data storage devices.  Extremely easy actually. So I ask again... why are you using cloud backup for such important data?
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longweekend58
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Re: Will Malcolm be man enough
Reply #54 - Dec 22nd, 2013 at 1:13pm  
Cliff48 wrote on Dec 22nd, 2013 at 11:08am:
Also Alevine, for uploads you don't get 20mbps, typically its 1-2mBITSps.  So Gigabyte backups are truly out of the question.

Longweekend (who claims to be an IT professional) advocates backing up to physical media, whereas every professional organisation I worked for created offsite backups (for the obvious reasons of fire or other possible damage).

Its not just business users that should have backups.  Over the years I have accumulated gigabytes of files (documents, emails, photos, videos) mainly to do with my family or my personal business contracts, warranties, etc.  The loss of the files would be devastating, so apart from having a physical media backup, its very reassuring to have a cloud backup as well.

Before Longweekend jumps up and down saying that the cost of FTTH can't be justified on cloud backups = I agree wholeheartedly.  But by his logic, why should the government even be involved at all?

FTTH (or even FTTN) cannot be justified on any individual application for personal use.  But it is clear that the government (as a generic term not just Labor/Liberal) fully endorses the use of electronic communications for all. Centrelink, Medicare, AEC  to mention just a few.  The take up of electronic communications has been staggering growth in government, commercial and the pubic sector.

Since private enterprise is not capable of setting up a nationwide network (to ensure its availability to all) it has fallen on the government to do so.  To replace a copper network partially with fibre that gives no benefit to existing users is just an expensive joke.





which I said as well...  but you don't necessarily need to offsite backup every day.  most small businesses can do it weekly and if you are big enough to need offsite backups stored daily then you are more than capable of paying for it.
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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."
 
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longweekend58
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Re: Will Malcolm be man enough
Reply #55 - Dec 22nd, 2013 at 1:16pm  
Cliff48 wrote on Dec 22nd, 2013 at 11:08am:
Also Alevine, for uploads you don't get 20mbps, typically its 1-2mBITSps.  So Gigabyte backups are truly out of the question.

Longweekend (who claims to be an IT professional) advocates backing up to physical media, whereas every professional organisation I worked for created offsite backups (for the obvious reasons of fire or other possible damage).

Its not just business users that should have backups.  Over the years I have accumulated gigabytes of files (documents, emails, photos, videos) mainly to do with my family or my personal business contracts, warranties, etc.  The loss of the files would be devastating, so apart from having a physical media backup, its very reassuring to have a cloud backup as well.

Before Longweekend jumps up and down saying that the cost of FTTH can't be justified on cloud backups = I agree wholeheartedly.  But by his logic, why should the government even be involved at all?

FTTH (or even FTTN) cannot be justified on any individual application for personal use.  But it is clear that the government (as a generic term not just Labor/Liberal) fully endorses the use of electronic communications for all. Centrelink, Medicare, AEC  to mention just a few.  The take up of electronic communications has been staggering growth in government, commercial and the pubic sector.

Since private enterprise is not capable of setting up a nationwide network (to ensure its availability to all) it has fallen on the government to do so.  To replace a copper network partially with fibre that gives no benefit to existing users is just an expensive joke.






yeah because 25Mbps is not more than 8Mbsp.  and because the availablility of fibre to EVERYONE in the country (not just those who pay to be on a backbone) is of no consequence and of course endsuring that everyone in the country gets true broadband is nothing, right?

try again.
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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."
 
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Re: Will Malcolm be man enough
Reply #56 - Dec 22nd, 2013 at 5:09pm  
longweekend:
Quote:
yeah because 25Mbps is not more than 8Mbsp.


I don't know if you are deliberately being obtuse, or perhaps have poor comprehension skills, or you just open your mouth and sprout what ever bs come to mind.

I did show you a link that states the Australian average is 13.6mbps (not 8).

I am lucky, I get 16mbps.  If I got the 25mbps that Longweekend keeps sprouting I would be more than happy and I doubt I would need more for the remaining years of my life.

HOWEVER, neither Turnbull nor NBNco is making any guarantee that 25mbps will be available to anyone.  In fact, I can't even be sure that I will maintain the current 16mbps that I 'enjoy'.
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Re: Will Malcolm be man enough
Reply #57 - Dec 22nd, 2013 at 5:38pm  
Cliff48 wrote on Dec 22nd, 2013 at 5:09pm:
longweekend:
Quote:
yeah because 25Mbps is not more than 8Mbsp.


I don't know if you are deliberately being obtuse, or perhaps have poor comprehension skills, or you just open your mouth and sprout what ever bs come to mind.

I did show you a link that states the Australian average is 13.6mbps (not 8).

I am lucky, I get 16mbps.  If I got the 25mbps that Longweekend keeps sprouting I would be more than happy and I doubt I would need more for the remaining years of my life.

HOWEVER, neither Turnbull nor NBNco is making any guarantee that 25mbps will be available to anyone.  In fact, I can't even be sure that I will maintain the current 16mbps that I 'enjoy'.



25 is still more than 13.8.  its called basic maths.  and if you are getting 16 now then you must be close to an exchange suggesting you would probably get 25 or more.  and you still have access to fibre if you want it.  Do you want it?????
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Re: Will Malcolm be man enough
Reply #58 - Dec 22nd, 2013 at 5:54pm  
longweekend58 wrote on Dec 22nd, 2013 at 5:38pm:
Cliff48 wrote on Dec 22nd, 2013 at 5:09pm:
longweekend:
Quote:
yeah because 25Mbps is not more than 8Mbsp.


I don't know if you are deliberately being obtuse, or perhaps have poor comprehension skills, or you just open your mouth and sprout what ever bs come to mind.

I did show you a link that states the Australian average is 13.6mbps (not 8).

I am lucky, I get 16mbps.  If I got the 25mbps that Longweekend keeps sprouting I would be more than happy and I doubt I would need more for the remaining years of my life.

HOWEVER, neither Turnbull nor NBNco is making any guarantee that 25mbps will be available to anyone.  In fact, I can't even be sure that I will maintain the current 16mbps that I 'enjoy'.



25 is still more than 13.8.  its called basic maths.  and if you are getting 16 now then you must be close to an exchange suggesting you would probably get 25 or more.  and you still have access to fibre if you want it.  Do you want it?????


You truly are obtuse Longwanker.

Are you going to guarantee that i get 25mbps when nbn comes to my area?  Turnbull wont.  NBNco wont.  Can you guarantee that I will get that i will at least get the same as I get now?  Turnbull wont.  NBNco wont.
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longweekend58
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Re: Will Malcolm be man enough
Reply #59 - Dec 22nd, 2013 at 6:06pm  
Cliff48 wrote on Dec 22nd, 2013 at 5:54pm:
longweekend58 wrote on Dec 22nd, 2013 at 5:38pm:
Cliff48 wrote on Dec 22nd, 2013 at 5:09pm:
longweekend:
Quote:
yeah because 25Mbps is not more than 8Mbsp.


I don't know if you are deliberately being obtuse, or perhaps have poor comprehension skills, or you just open your mouth and sprout what ever bs come to mind.

I did show you a link that states the Australian average is 13.6mbps (not 8).

I am lucky, I get 16mbps.  If I got the 25mbps that Longweekend keeps sprouting I would be more than happy and I doubt I would need more for the remaining years of my life.

HOWEVER, neither Turnbull nor NBNco is making any guarantee that 25mbps will be available to anyone.  In fact, I can't even be sure that I will maintain the current 16mbps that I 'enjoy'.



25 is still more than 13.8.  its called basic maths.  and if you are getting 16 now then you must be close to an exchange suggesting you would probably get 25 or more.  and you still have access to fibre if you want it.  Do you want it?????


You truly are obtuse Longwanker.

Are you going to guarantee that i get 25mbps when nbn comes to my area?  Turnbull wont.  NBNco wont.  Can you guarantee that I will get that i will at least get the same as I get now?  Turnbull wont.  NBNco wont.



all you are doing is whinging and trying to find the worst-case scenario and when they fails, make one up.  if you really need superfast broadband you will be able to get ir right up to 1Gbs if you want.  your problem is that you might have to pay for it.  How awful!!!

ISPs are already talking about installing fibre for customers for free as part of contract deals.
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