Australian Politics Forum - We need a carbon tax. GW is real and now

muso

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Re: We need a carbon tax. GW is real and now
Reply #60 - Dec 16^th, 2013 at 7:59pm

Soren wrote on Dec 16^th, 2013 at 7:45pm:

There is no scientific - testable - evidence for AGW, only statistical conjecture.
There is zero scientific evidence for human causing climate change. Zero. AGW simply doesn't clear the scientific hurdle - to be testable and then repeatable.

Computer models are unreliable and are based on guess work about a system (climate) that is as well understood as the brain. Which is to say, not very well. Hence the extraordinary reliance on calculating chances, aka actuarial guesswork.

BatteriesNotIncluded wrote on Dec 9^th, 2013 at 11:35pm:

We all know he's not ignorant Huh

Well, he emulates ignorance extremely well.

If he's not ignorant, that must imply dishonesty. Is that what you're saying about Soren, DRAH ?!

Perish the thought.

He's ignorant.

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namnugenot

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Re: We need a carbon tax. GW is real and now
Reply #61 - Dec 17^th, 2013 at 12:18pm

# wrote on Dec 16^th, 2013 at 5:44pm:

namnugenot wrote on Dec 16^th, 2013 at 5:35pm:

...
If carbon is to blame it doesn't mean jack if it's not a universal global price on all CO2 emissions from all sources not just fossil fuel. ...

Can you substantiate that assertion?

Oh....forgot CO2's effects only come from coal and burnt in Australia and other western nations. CO2 from other sources or coal burnt elsewhere produces rainbows and unicorns and gives off a pleasant smell of wet pine forests.

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#

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Re: We need a carbon tax. GW is real and now
Reply #62 - Dec 17^th, 2013 at 12:45pm

namnugenot wrote on Dec 17^th, 2013 at 12:18pm:

# wrote on Dec 16^th, 2013 at 5:44pm:

namnugenot wrote on Dec 16^th, 2013 at 5:35pm:

...
If carbon is to blame it doesn't mean jack if it's not a universal global price on all CO2 emissions from all sources not just fossil fuel. ...

Can you substantiate that assertion?

Oh....forgot CO2's effects only come from coal ...

I'll take that as a "no".

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BatteriesNotIncluded

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people died for this!

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Re: We need a carbon tax. GW is real and now
Reply #63 - Dec 17^th, 2013 at 12:46pm

Soren wrote on Dec 16^th, 2013 at 7:45pm:

There is no scientific - testable - evidence for AGW, only statistical conjecture.
There is zero scientific evidence for human causing climate change. Zero. AGW simply doesn't clear the scientific hurdle - to be testable and then repeatable.

Computer models are unreliable and are based on guess work about a system (climate) that is as well understood as the brain. Which is to say, not very well. Hence the extraordinary reliance on calculating chances, aka actuarial guesswork.i

!??!

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*Sure....they're anti competitive as any subsidised job is. It wouldn't be there without the tax payer. Very damned difficult for a brainwashed collectivist to understand that I know.... (swaggy) *

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BatteriesNotIncluded

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Re: We need a carbon tax. GW is real and now
Reply #64 - Dec 17^th, 2013 at 12:50pm

muso wrote on Dec 16^th, 2013 at 7:59pm:

Soren wrote on Dec 16^th, 2013 at 7:45pm:

There is no scientific - testable - evidence for AGW, only statistical conjecture.
There is zero scientific evidence for human causing climate change. Zero. AGW simply doesn't clear the scientific hurdle - to be testable and then repeatable.

Computer models are unreliable and are based on guess work about a system (climate) that is as well understood as the brain. Which is to say, not very well. Hence the extraordinary reliance on calculating chances, aka actuarial guesswork.

BatteriesNotIncluded wrote on Dec 9^th, 2013 at 11:35pm:

We all know he's not ignorant Huh

Well, he emulates ignorance extremely well.

If he's not ignorant, that must imply dishonesty. Is that what you're saying about Soren, DRAH ?!

Perish the thought.

He's ignorant.

Dishonesty, yes! Sowing the lie and drinking the tears of children: he is but one of the vampires jah jah sent us to catch!!

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*Sure....they're anti competitive as any subsidised job is. It wouldn't be there without the tax payer. Very damned difficult for a brainwashed collectivist to understand that I know.... (swaggy) *

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Sprintcyclist Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 42317 Gender:	Re: We need a carbon tax. GW is real and now Reply #65 - Dec 17^th, 2013 at 12:51pm Quote: ........We need a XYZ tax...... - the cry of the ill-fated leftardian.
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Soren

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Re: We need a carbon tax. GW is real and now
Reply #66 - Dec 17^th, 2013 at 3:08pm

A propos 'we need carbon tax':

Labor’s $6 billion carbon tax reduced Australia’s carbon dioxide emissions by just 300,000 tonnes over 12 months. Next year’s soccer World Cup will generate nine times that amount:
FIFA says the 2014 tournament, which will require huge amounts of air travel to venues across Brazil, will produce the equivalent of 2.72 million metric tons of carbon dioxide …

The World Cup runs for only one month.

Cheesy

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namnugenot

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Re: We need a carbon tax. GW is real and now
Reply #67 - Dec 17^th, 2013 at 5:44pm

# wrote on Dec 17^th, 2013 at 12:45pm:

namnugenot wrote on Dec 17^th, 2013 at 12:18pm:

# wrote on Dec 16^th, 2013 at 5:44pm:

namnugenot wrote on Dec 16^th, 2013 at 5:35pm:

...
If carbon is to blame it doesn't mean jack if it's not a universal global price on all CO2 emissions from all sources not just fossil fuel. ...

Can you substantiate that assertion?

Oh....forgot CO2's effects only come from coal ...

I'll take that as a "no".

Take it as this bugger you you brain dead front bottom.

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BatteriesNotIncluded Gold Member Offline MediocrityNET: because people died for this! Posts: 26966	Re: We need a carbon tax. GW is real and now Reply #68 - Jan 6^th, 2014 at 3:23am Clouds say what?????
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Doctor Jolly

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Re: We need a carbon tax. GW is real and now
Reply #69 - Jan 6^th, 2014 at 8:15am

Soren wrote on Dec 17^th, 2013 at 3:08pm:

A propos 'we need carbon tax':

Labor’s $6 billion carbon tax reduced Australia’s carbon dioxide emissions by just 300,000 tonnes over 12 months. Next year’s soccer World Cup will generate nine times that amount:
FIFA says the 2014 tournament, which will require huge amounts of air travel to venues across Brazil, will produce the equivalent of 2.72 million metric tons of carbon dioxide …

The World Cup runs for only one month.

Cheesy

Is this the first time Australia's carbon dioxide emissions have fallen ?

I recall, they were growing at about 2 to 3 % p.a.

And the carbon tax hasnt cost $6b. It is simply redistrubting that money back. Most of it back to the poluters and consumers, and some of it into renewable investments.
The only cost is the administration of it, probably a million or two at most.

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BigOl64

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Re: We need a carbon tax. GW is real and now
Reply #70 - Jan 6^th, 2014 at 8:28am

Doctor Jolly wrote on Jan 6^th, 2014 at 8:15am:

Soren wrote on Dec 17^th, 2013 at 3:08pm:

A propos 'we need carbon tax':

Labor’s $6 billion carbon tax reduced Australia’s carbon dioxide emissions by just 300,000 tonnes over 12 months. Next year’s soccer World Cup will generate nine times that amount:
FIFA says the 2014 tournament, which will require huge amounts of air travel to venues across Brazil, will produce the equivalent of 2.72 million metric tons of carbon dioxide …

The World Cup runs for only one month.

Cheesy

Is this the first time Australia's carbon dioxide emissions have fallen ?

I recall, they were growing at about 2 to 3 % p.a.

And the carbon tax hasnt cost $6b. It is simply redistrubting that money back. Most of it back to the poluters and consumers, and some of it into renewable investments.
The only cost is the administration of it, probably a million or two at most.

Every dollar the government administers, cost 20 cents, so it is a tad more than a couple of million to redistribute a pointless tax.

Regardless of the reality of AGW, we only produce less than 2% of the world's CO2 output, if we did absolutely nothing it would make not a rat's arse worth of diffference, the sooner the hysterics realise that the better off this country will be.

If the goverment wants renewables, then pay for them out of the budget, but don't p1ss on me and tell me it's raining.

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Doctor Jolly

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Re: We need a carbon tax. GW is real and now
Reply #71 - Jan 6^th, 2014 at 8:49am

BigOl64 wrote on Jan 6^th, 2014 at 8:28am:

Doctor Jolly wrote on Jan 6^th, 2014 at 8:15am:

Soren wrote on Dec 17^th, 2013 at 3:08pm:

A propos 'we need carbon tax':

Labor’s $6 billion carbon tax reduced Australia’s carbon dioxide emissions by just 300,000 tonnes over 12 months. Next year’s soccer World Cup will generate nine times that amount:
FIFA says the 2014 tournament, which will require huge amounts of air travel to venues across Brazil, will produce the equivalent of 2.72 million metric tons of carbon dioxide …

The World Cup runs for only one month.

Cheesy

Is this the first time Australia's carbon dioxide emissions have fallen ?

I recall, they were growing at about 2 to 3 % p.a.

And the carbon tax hasnt cost $6b. It is simply redistrubting that money back. Most of it back to the poluters and consumers, and some of it into renewable investments.
The only cost is the administration of it, probably a million or two at most.

Every dollar the government administers, cost 20 cents, so it is a tad more than a couple of million to redistribute a pointless tax.

That is true of general taxes such as income and GST, but the carbon tax only targets 500 companies, so costs are much lower.
Quote:

Regardless of the reality of AGW, we only produce less than 2% of the world's CO2 output, if we did absolutely nothing it would make not a rat's arse worth of diffference, the sooner the hysterics realise that the better off this country will be.

The country will be much worse off if we dont reduce carbon dioxide emissions here and abroad.

Quote:

If the goverment wants renewables, then pay for them out of the budget, but don't p1ss on me and tell me it's raining.

Governments are wasteful, tend toward pork barrelling, and open to corruption. We only need look back and Howard and Rudd pumping millions into "clean" coal.
Market based mechanisms such as a carbon price, naturally find equilibrium at the most efficient point.

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BigOl64

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Re: We need a carbon tax. GW is real and now
Reply #72 - Jan 6^th, 2014 at 9:08am

Doctor Jolly wrote on Jan 6^th, 2014 at 8:49am:

Regardless of the reality of AGW, we only produce less than 2% of the world's CO2 output, if we did absolutely nothing it would make not a rat's arse worth of diffference, the sooner the hysterics realise that the better off this country will be.

The country will be much worse off if we dont reduce carbon dioxide emissions here and abroad.

Quote:

If the goverment wants renewables, then pay for them out of the budget, but don't p1ss on me and tell me it's raining.

Governments are wasteful, tend toward pork barrelling, and open to corruption. We only need look back and Howard and Rudd pumping millions into "clean" coal.
Market based mechanisms such as a carbon price, naturally find equilibrium at the most efficient point.
[/quote]

Really if we don't reduce our 2% how exactly are we going to be worse off; we may be worse off if the rest of the world's 98% doesn't get reduced, but you're deluding yourself if you think our 2% is doing anything at all?

If the government takes money off the main polluters and consumers and then gives back most of it, how is that going to make them spend billions and billions to manage their output; a child will tell you that small impositions don't produce large changes in behaviour.

It was just another labor wankfest and nothing more; something the hysterics failed to realise.

It's the big polluting countries that need to make changes not us.

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Chimp_Logic

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Re: We need a carbon tax. GW is real and now
Reply #73 - Jan 6^th, 2014 at 9:43am

BigOl64 wrote on Jan 6^th, 2014 at 9:08am:

Doctor Jolly wrote on Jan 6^th, 2014 at 8:49am:

Regardless of the reality of AGW, we only produce less than 2% of the world's CO2 output, if we did absolutely nothing it would make not a rat's arse worth of diffference, the sooner the hysterics realise that the better off this country will be.

The country will be much worse off if we dont reduce carbon dioxide emissions here and abroad.

Quote:

If the goverment wants renewables, then pay for them out of the budget, but don't p1ss on me and tell me it's raining.

Governments are wasteful, tend toward pork barrelling, and open to corruption. We only need look back and Howard and Rudd pumping millions into "clean" coal.
Market based mechanisms such as a carbon price, naturally find equilibrium at the most efficient point.

Really if we don't reduce our 2% how exactly are we going to be worse off; we may be worse off if the rest of the world's 98% doesn't get reduced, but you're deluding yourself if you think our 2% is doing anything at all?

If the government takes money off the main polluters and consumers and then gives back most of it, how is that going to make them spend billions and billions to manage their output; a child will tell you that small impositions don't produce large changes in behaviour.

It was just another labor wankfest and nothing more; something the hysterics failed to realise.

It's the big polluting countries that need to make changes not us.

I see, so you want Australia to continue being the number ONE carbon emitter in the world on a per capita basis, whilst demanding every body else reduce their emissions?

Incidentally on a NET CARBON EMISSIONS basis Australia is still ranked 17th in the world. Not bad hey for a nation of only 23 million.

How do you expect to participate on a global stage if you demand SPECIAL treatment and gallop around the world asking others to endure cuts, and make structural changes and sacrifices?

Your level of hypocrisy and immorality is breath taking.

The stench that your posts emit within this forum can be coupled chemically with the wafting putrid rotting weasel carcass fumes of Hades. You should be utterly ashamed of yourself you deranged ignorant, arrogant, racist fascist puppet freak clown maggot.

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« Last Edit: Jan 6^th, 2014 at 9:48am by Chimp_Logic »

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Doctor Jolly

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Re: We need a carbon tax. GW is real and now
Reply #74 - Jan 6^th, 2014 at 9:48am

BigOl64 wrote on Jan 6^th, 2014 at 9:08am:

Really if we don't reduce our 2% how exactly are we going to be worse off; we may be worse off if the rest of the world's 98% doesn't get reduced, but you're deluding yourself if you think our 2% is doing anything at all?

If the government takes money off the main polluters and consumers and then gives back most of it, how is that going to make them spend billions and billions to manage their output; a child will tell you that small impositions don't produce large changes in behaviour.

It was just another labor wankfest and nothing more; something the hysterics failed to realise.

It's the big polluting countries that need to make changes not us.

Your last comment is the comment of the lazy man.
If you think America, China and Europe are going to cut emissions and let Australia keep increasing emissions, you are a fool.

Lets make two things clear.
1) The anticipated 4 degrees warming by 2100 is not the end. If the burning of fossil fuels continues it will also increase. 8 degrees by 2200, 12 degrees by 2300 ?

2) Mankind is not going to send itself into oblivion. which is what you'll get at 8 and 12 degrees.

So based on that, at some point, probably at the last minute, the world will dramatically stop burning fossil fuels. Australia needs to prepare for that outcome by transitioning off fossil fuels now, so we dont cope an economy destroying mandate from the rest of the world in the future.

Capitalist economies do not respond well to abrupt changes of fortune, but do repsond well to transitional changes.

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