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Fukushima (Read 10160 times)
Chimp_Logic
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Fukushima
Dec 2nd, 2013 at 9:19pm
 
muso wrote on Dec 2nd, 2013 at 7:48pm:
......
so we're back on topic
.


yes muso its always good to be back on topic

According to Japanese health data from before the Fukushima disaster the thyroid cancer rates for children are:

Age 0-4 = 0 per 100,000 people (male and female combined)
Age 5-9 = 0 per 100,000 people (male and female combined)
Age 10-14 = 0.2 per 100,000 people (male and female combined)
Age 15-19 = 1.3 per 100,000 people (male and female combined)

The health survey examined 289,960 children total.
58
of those screened have cancer or are assumed to have cancer and are awaiting surgery.

This becomes 1 cancer per 4999 people. This is far higher than the pre-disaster levels. This raises big questions about the claims that these are increased just due to more screening. The more these numbers grow the harder it is to dismiss the findings are some version of normal.


1 cancer in 4999 is approximately 20 in every 100,000 children which is a
two order of magnitude increase
for 10-14 year olds.



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« Last Edit: Dec 2nd, 2013 at 9:34pm by muso »  

Mini Ice Age (2014-2029)
Dr Sircus cures cancer with Baking Soda and Magnesium - Jethro the MENTAL GIANT & his flute madness
 
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muso
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Re: Fukushima
Reply #1 - Dec 2nd, 2013 at 9:36pm
 
and I guess you have a reputable source for that, that isn't

http://www.fukuleaks.org/web/?p=11726
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Emma
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Re: Arctic summer temperatures warmest for 120,000 yrs
Reply #2 - Dec 2nd, 2013 at 9:34pm
 
Chimp_Logic wrote on Dec 2nd, 2013 at 9:19pm:
muso wrote on Dec 2nd, 2013 at 7:48pm:
......
so we're back on topic
.


yes muso its always good to be back on topic

According to Japanese health data from before the Fukushima disaster the thyroid cancer rates for children are:

Age 0-4 = 0 per 100,000 people (male and female combined)
Age 5-9 = 0 per 100,000 people (male and female combined)
Age 10-14 = 0.2 per 100,000 people (male and female combined)
Age 15-19 = 1.3 per 100,000 people (male and female combined)

The health survey examined 289,960 children total.
58
of those screened have cancer or are assumed to have cancer and are awaiting surgery.

This becomes 1 cancer per 4999 people. This is far higher than the pre-disaster levels. This raises big questions about the claims that these are increased just due to more screening. The more these numbers grow the harder it is to dismiss the findings are some version of normal.


1 cancer in 4999 is approximately 20 in every 100,000 children which is a
two order of magnitude increase
for 10-14 year olds.




Should this be a surprise..??
Well  maybe to those who argue in favour of nuclear power. Sad
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Chimp_Logic
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Re: Arctic summer temperatures warmest for 120,000 yrs
Reply #3 - Dec 2nd, 2013 at 11:06pm
 
Emma wrote on Dec 2nd, 2013 at 9:34pm:
Should this be a surprise..??
Well  maybe to those who argue in favour of nuclear power. Sad


no its not a surprise - totally predictable.

However, in the Chernobyl meltdown case, Children Thyroid cancers started showing up about 5 years after the disaster occurred. We are less than 3 years since the disaster and the cancer cases are flowing in at an increasing rate.

A survey of 80,000+ children living in Fukushima region showed that about 40% had nodules and abnormalities in their Thyroid glands. Compare that with a normal rate of less than 1 per 100,000.

Children are very sensitive to radiation - several orders of magnitude more sensitive than adults. And female children are twice as sensitive as male children.

This is only the tip of problem. The leukemias and other cancers will start to emerge, and also heart diseases (conduction problem in the human heart is linked with internal exposure to radionuclides such as Cesium 137.

Trouble ahead I'm afraid
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Dr Sircus cures cancer with Baking Soda and Magnesium - Jethro the MENTAL GIANT & his flute madness
 
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muso
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Reply #4 - Dec 3rd, 2013 at 6:33am
 
Look, I created another thread for this, Chimp. Please try to stay on topic.
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muso
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Re: Fukushima
Reply #5 - Dec 3rd, 2013 at 7:00am
 
It's quite possible that there will be an increase in thyroid cancer as a result of the Fukushima disaster, but it's difficult to get reliable (non-inflated) figures on this. As far as I am aware , the study was carried out by the Fukushima Medical University.

http://www.japantoday.com/category/national/view/incidences-of-thyroid-cancer-on...


Quote:
TOKYO —

The number of under-18s in Fukushima Prefecture diagnosed with thyroid cancer has increased to 12, while the number of possible cases has reached 15, according to Kolnet, an online media source focused on the Tohoku region of Japan.

The numbers were released as part of an ongoing investigation by the Fukushima Prefecture Board of Health into the effects of the radiation released in the explosion at the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant in 2011. The investigation has examined about 174,000 adults and children from towns surrounding the crippled plant.


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Chimp_Logic
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Re: Fukushima
Reply #6 - Dec 3rd, 2013 at 9:14am
 
Tokyo study shows that the White Blood Cell count for a large sample of children has decreased since the Fukushima meltdowns and ongoing releases of radionuclides.

Normal WBC count ~ 4000
Average WBC count for children examined ~ 2500

Accepted threshold WBC in children > 3000
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muso
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Re: Fukushima
Reply #7 - Dec 3rd, 2013 at 9:30am
 
Which overall would you say kills most people, Nuclear Power Stations or Coal Fired Power Stations?
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Chimp_Logic
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Re: Fukushima
Reply #8 - Dec 3rd, 2013 at 10:17am
 
short term its coal fired power stations - but that's not the whole picture is it muso,

If you close down nuclear and coal fired stations tomorrow, you still have nuclear waste to deal with.

Chernobyl will continue to kill for at least 6 centuries to come - just in terms of Cs137 and Sr90 alone.

Nuclear power contributes less than 15% of the worlds power requirements.

Nuclear power stations routinely release nuclear nasties such as tritium (H3) which has a half life of 12 years. Tritium lingers in the environment for betweem 10 and 20 half lives (120 to 240 years)

These substances are not only extremely toxic and long lived, they bio- accumulate in the food chain.

Nuclear power is totally un-defendable, on economic, environmental or efficiency grounds. Linked to the Nuclear weapons industry.

Radioactive release contaminates the Gene pool - not only in the human species but all life forms that come in contact with these poisons.


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muso
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Re: Fukushima
Reply #9 - Dec 3rd, 2013 at 11:40am
 
The only reason we have a nuclear waste problem is that governments have been too soft on the industry. Borosilicate glass is a secure way to store nuclear waste. It's expensive, but secure.

If we had Thorium accelerator based reactors, it would no longer be a problem. They can consume conventional nuclear waste.

I don't have any argument regarding nuclear power in Australia. It won't happen, so why bother?

In the medium term, reliable nuclear power stations will continue to provide a stop gap until we get something better.

However, I do have a problem with exaggerating the truth.

Looking long term - ie global warming,  coal wil have a much greatr consequence. It does even short term.
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« Last Edit: Dec 3rd, 2013 at 11:47am by muso »  

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Re: Fukushima
Reply #10 - Dec 3rd, 2013 at 11:49am
 
http://nextbigfuture.com/2008/03/deaths-per-twh-for-all-energy-sources.html

Deaths per TWh for all energy sources. Rooftop solar is actually more dangerous that Chernobyl.

Energy Source              Death Rate (deaths per TWh)

Coal – world average               161 (26% of world energy, 50% of electricity)
Coal – China                       278
Coal – USA                         15
Oil                                36  (36% of world energy)
Natural Gas                         4  (21% of world energy)
Biofuel/Biomass                    12
Peat                               12
Solar (rooftop)                     0.44 (less than 0.1% of world energy)
Wind                                0.15 (less than 1% of world energy)
Hydro                               0.10 (europe death rate, 2.2% of world energy)
Hydro - world including Banqiao)    1.4 (about 2500 TWh/yr and 171,000 Banqiao dead)
Nuclear                             0.04 (5.9% of world energy)
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Re: Fukushima
Reply #11 - Dec 3rd, 2013 at 12:35pm
 
Nuclears ability to keep on killing for 1000's of years after it produced electricity is the problem.

Do we count Hiroshima and Nagasaki as victims of nuclear waste. Nuclear weapons are made of enriched waste.
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Chimp_Logic
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Re: Fukushima
Reply #12 - Dec 3rd, 2013 at 1:16pm
 
muso wrote on Dec 3rd, 2013 at 11:49am:
http://nextbigfuture.com/2008/03/deaths-per-twh-for-all-energy-sources.html

Deaths per TWh for all energy sources. Rooftop solar is actually more dangerous that Chernobyl.

Energy Source              Death Rate (deaths per TWh)

Coal – world average               161 (26% of world energy, 50% of electricity)
Coal – China                       278
Coal – USA                         15
Oil                                36  (36% of world energy)
Natural Gas                         4  (21% of world energy)
Biofuel/Biomass                    12
Peat                               12
Solar (rooftop)                     0.44 (less than 0.1% of world energy)
Wind                                0.15 (less than 1% of world energy)
Hydro                               0.10 (europe death rate, 2.2% of world energy)
Hydro - world including Banqiao)    1.4 (about 2500 TWh/yr and 171,000 Banqiao dead)
Nuclear                             0.04 (5.9% of world energy)


Your post reminds me of the spin methodology used by AGW deniers.

You're quite welcome to self indoctrinate and spread as much MOX fuel dust, hot particles and nuclear fleas on your toast each morning as you like.

Is there an increase in the incidence if cancer for children who live near nuclear power facilities?

Shhhhhhhhhh, only present data on the basis of fictitious deaths per TWhr of power generated. That will hide the real story.

You should never discuss things that you have minimal understanding of and wish to infuse with a political poison.

That's what EXXON puppets do in the mass media to confuse the public on the effects of rising CO2 emissions.

...

Of course the 500,000 fatality figure (465,000 to be more precise) is an estimate made by the Soviets

The New York Academy of Sciences report that was released a few years ago estimates that there were 985,000 additional deaths caused the Chernobyl radiological event from the years 1986-2003.

That is ONE core meltdown which was brought under control relatively quickly by the Soviets who used over 600,000 personnel (mainly military) to tackle the meltdown.

Fukushima has 3 full core meltdowns, whose location is currently unknown, and several spent fuel pools dangling precariously 35m above the ground.

Cancer detection in children around Fukushima has already been detected, at least 2 years earlier than the Chernobyl radiological event.

Shhhhhhh...

its about markets, corporate profits, and the USA wants Japan to continue along this madness.

As we speak Japan's 52 nuclear reactors are offline. (with the exception of perhaps one which may have been re-started).

When fully operational Japan met 30% of its power requirements via its nuclear reactors (supposedly)

They seem to be doing fine without them.
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« Last Edit: Dec 3rd, 2013 at 1:58pm by Chimp_Logic »  

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Dr Sircus cures cancer with Baking Soda and Magnesium - Jethro the MENTAL GIANT & his flute madness
 
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muso
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Re: Fukushima
Reply #13 - Dec 3rd, 2013 at 3:24pm
 
Chimp_Logic wrote on Dec 3rd, 2013 at 1:16pm:
Your post reminds me of the spin methodology used by AGW deniers.


You are too humble. Actually yours is a much better emulation of AGW denialism if I say so myself.

Quote:
You're quite welcome to self indoctrinate and spread as much MOX fuel dust, hot particles and nuclear fleas on your toast each morning as you like.

Is there an increase in the incidence if cancer for children who live near nuclear power facilities?

Shhhhhhhhhh, only present data on the basis of fictitious deaths per TWhr of power generated. That will hide the real story.

You should never discuss things that you have minimal understanding of and wish to infuse with a political poison.


That's right, deny the facts and go for the emotional spin.

Minimal information? Chimp - I do actually have experience in this field and I go through practical field exercises in dealing with radiological incidents every 12 months. What is your experience, other than reading blog articles?

Quote:
That's what EXXON puppets do in the mass media to confuse the public on the effects of rising CO2 emissions.

Of course the 500,000 fatality figure (465,000 to be more precise) is an estimate made by the Soviets

The New York Academy of Sciences report that was released a few years ago estimates that there were 985,000 additional deaths caused the Chernobyl radiological event from the years 1986-2003.


Chimp, We've already been through that. What did the vast majority of the best qualified in the field of radiology state?  See if you can remember. It related to a public statement in 2012.

You can go as hyperbolic as you like, but I'm not buying your over exaggerated nonsense - not because I'm secretly supporting the "evil" nuclear industry, but simply because it's exaggerated nonsense. If we are to make informed decisions, it should not be on the basis of exaggerated nonsense.

You are capable of better than that.
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muso
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Re: Fukushima
Reply #14 - Dec 3rd, 2013 at 3:33pm
 
Doctor Jolly wrote on Dec 3rd, 2013 at 12:35pm:
Nuclears ability to keep on killing for 1000's of years after it produced electricity is the problem.

Do we count Hiroshima and Nagasaki as victims of nuclear waste. Nuclear weapons are made of enriched waste.


So called "dirty bombs" are - or do you mean that it's a byproduct of fast breeder reactors?
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