Australian Politics Forum - Super Typhoon Haiyan: A Hint of What’s to Come?

namnugenot

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Re: Super Typhoon Haiyan: A Hint of What’s to Come?
Reply #30 - Nov 12^th, 2013 at 12:18pm

# wrote on Nov 12^th, 2013 at 11:52am:

namnugenot wrote on Nov 12^th, 2013 at 10:09am:

...
So these are things the Lab government obviously were blind to as well ...

Tu quoque Quote:

Tu quoque /tuːˈkwoʊkwiː/, (Latin for "you, too" or "you, also") or the appeal to hypocrisy, is a logical fallacy that attempts to discredit the opponent's position by asserting the opponent's failure to act consistently in accordance with that position; it attempts to show that a criticism or objection applies equally to the person making it. This dismisses someone's point of view based on criticism of the person's inconsistency and not the position presented whereas a person's inconsistency should not discredit the position. Thus, it is a form of the ad hominem argument. To clarify, although the person being attacked might indeed be acting inconsistently or hypocritically, this does not invalidate their argument.

No it does not invalidate it...or validate it for that matter... But if someone is acting inconsistently or apparently hypocritically with their stated point of view it is an indication that they do not in fact hold that point of view. Or when that point of view diverges only on the basis of, and directed at, personal characteristics such as race, gender, religion, or politics it is irrational and the basis of such character traits as racism, etc.

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Rider

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Re: Super Typhoon Haiyan: A Hint of What’s to Come?
Reply #31 - Nov 12^th, 2013 at 12:22pm

Swagman wrote on Nov 12^th, 2013 at 12:11pm:

Chimp_Logic wrote on Nov 12^th, 2013 at 8:58am:

This is your solution so that the mining and fossil fuel corporations don't have to pay their fair share of tax?

That's the point they already pay their fair share of tax.

They also employ lots pf people that pay income tax.

They also indirectly provide business and infrstructure to communities that in turn pay taxes and employ more people.

Go and have a latte', eat a banana and donate 90% of your dole cheque to Greenpeace Chimp, you'll feel better.

You forgot Royalties.

Bet you don' pay Royalties do you Chump, dirty f%cking Champaign socialist scum

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perceptions_now

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Re: Super Typhoon Haiyan: A Hint of What’s to Come?
Reply #32 - Nov 12^th, 2013 at 12:28pm

To those who are not willing to mitigate against the Risks of Climate Change, I would say -
1) There are Consequences, for all Actions & In-actions!

2) Is your major reason, for not taking whatever Mitigation Actions we are capable of, that you -
a) don't believe that the cause is Human related?
b) simply don't believe that the climate is changing at all?
c) believe the climate is changing, but we can not do anything about it?
If you agree with one of the above, please explain your reasons?
If none of the above apply, then please explain your reasoning, for not taking whatever Mitigating actions we can?

3) Scientific opinion is clearly saying that Climate Change is happening and that outcomes will worsen, if Mitigating actions are not taken.
So, do you -
a) Generally not believe what scientists say?
b) Not believe, what Climate scientists in particular are saying?
c) Believe there is some sort of Political or other Conspiracy, for "some reason"?
If you agree with one of the above, please explain your reasons?
If none of the above apply, then please explain your reasoning, for not accepting/believing that the Scientific Consensus is correct?

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namnugenot

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Re: Super Typhoon Haiyan: A Hint of What’s to Come?
Reply #33 - Nov 12^th, 2013 at 1:09pm

perceptions_now wrote on Nov 12^th, 2013 at 12:28pm:

To those who are not willing to mitigate against the Risks of Climate Change, I would say -
1) There are Consequences, for all Actions & In-actions!

2) Is your major reason, for not taking whatever Mitigation Actions we are capable of, that you -
a) don't believe that the cause is Human related?
b) simply don't believe that the climate is changing at all?
c) believe the climate is changing, but we can not do anything about it?
If you agree with one of the above, please explain your reasons?
If none of the above apply, then please explain your reasoning, for not taking whatever Mitigating actions we can?

3) Scientific opinion is clearly saying that Climate Change is happening and that outcomes will worsen, if Mitigating actions are not taken.
So, do you -
a) Generally not believe what scientists say?
b) Not believe, what Climate scientists in particular are saying?
c) Believe there is some sort of Political or other Conspiracy, for "some reason"?
If you agree with one of the above, please explain your reasons?
If none of the above apply, then please explain your reasoning, for not accepting/believing that the Scientific Consensus is correct?

What actions exactly...you seem to be good at making lists...

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BatteriesNotIncluded Gold Member Offline MediocrityNET: because people died for this! Posts: 26966	Re: Super Typhoon Haiyan: A Hint of What’s to Come? Reply #34 - Nov 12^th, 2013 at 1:56pm Black is actually white
Back to top	Sure....they're anti competitive as any subsidised job is. It wouldn't be there without the tax payer. Very damned difficult for a brainwashed collectivist to understand that I know.... (swaggy) IP Logged

FriYAY

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Re: Super Typhoon Haiyan: A Hint of What’s to Come?
Reply #35 - Nov 12^th, 2013 at 3:05pm

# wrote on Nov 12^th, 2013 at 11:30am:

Chimp_Logic wrote on Nov 11^th, 2013 at 9:26pm:

...
No hope, ...

Our fate is sealed, only when we give up.

Chimp_Logic wrote on Nov 11^th, 2013 at 9:26pm:

... human civilisation has so much potential ...

Does it?

Given the vastness of space and time, it seems unlikely that this planet is the only one on which life has developed. That which we call "intelligence" is a niche which evolution will inevitably fill, wherever there is life.

I've often wondered, therefore, why we aren't overrun with interstellar tourists. My conclusion, based on observation of humanity, is that they're all dead. That which we laughably call "intelligence" is not viable, in the longer term.

I live in hope that I'll be proven wrong.

Or more scientifically put….

They are all extincted….

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Chimp_Logic

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Re: Super Typhoon Haiyan: A Hint of What’s to Come?
Reply #36 - Nov 12^th, 2013 at 4:02pm

Swagman wrote on Nov 12^th, 2013 at 12:11pm:

Chimp_Logic wrote on Nov 12^th, 2013 at 8:58am:

This is your solution so that the mining and fossil fuel corporations don't have to pay their fair share of tax?

That's the point they already pay their fair share of tax.

They also employ lots pf people that pay income tax.

They also indirectly provide business and infrstructure to communities that in turn pay taxes and employ more people.

Go and have a latte', eat a banana and donate 90% of your dole cheque to Greenpeace Chimp, you'll feel better.

No they don't.

The pay very little tax in Australia.

e.g. Twiggy Forest is one of the richest people in Australia - top 4 at one stage. His company Fortesque, has been operating for at leas 22 years in Australia. Total tax paid during this period = zero.

83% of the mining industry is foreign owned and the dividends go offshore.

Last financial year, the ATO released tax figures for the top 100 corporations in Australia. These are the big boys. Of the top 100, 40% didn't pay any tax at all for 2011/12. The remaining 60% paid on average about 13% tax on profits

How much tax do you pay? I bet you wish you could get corporate welfare handouts, subsidies and tax breaks for your pathetic existence you filthy rotten skin of demented re-crystalised weasel semen

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Mini Ice Age (2014-2029)
Dr Sircus cures cancer with Baking Soda and Magnesium - Jethro the MENTAL GIANT & his flute madness

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Chimp_Logic

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Re: Super Typhoon Haiyan: A Hint of What’s to Come?
Reply #37 - Nov 12^th, 2013 at 4:07pm

Rider wrote on Nov 12^th, 2013 at 12:22pm:

Swagman wrote on Nov 12^th, 2013 at 12:11pm:

Chimp_Logic wrote on Nov 12^th, 2013 at 8:58am:

This is your solution so that the mining and fossil fuel corporations don't have to pay their fair share of tax?

That's the point they already pay their fair share of tax.

They also employ lots pf people that pay income tax.

They also indirectly provide business and infrstructure to communities that in turn pay taxes and employ more people.

Go and have a latte', eat a banana and donate 90% of your dole cheque to Greenpeace Chimp, you'll feel better.

You forgot Royalties.

Bet you don' pay Royalties do you Chump, dirty f%cking Champaign socialist scum

Yes the massive Royalties that the mining industry pays - a pathetic 0.73% of their earnings - and they get that back and more from the tax payer.

Ask the WA government how its books are looking during several decades of a mining boom. They are in massive debt and all the foreign owned mining corporations are laughing their heads off in board rooms overseas with their CEOs enjoying massive bonuses etc

And you support this form of corproatised fascism on a global scale. Why? Well because Mr Rider, ladies an gentlemen, emits the foulest of odours into the ether, like a de-fragmented diseased weasel sloth

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« Last Edit: Nov 13^th, 2013 at 12:28am by Chimp_Logic »

Mini Ice Age (2014-2029)
Dr Sircus cures cancer with Baking Soda and Magnesium - Jethro the MENTAL GIANT & his flute madness

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#

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ignorant fool, absolutely
so

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Re: Super Typhoon Haiyan: A Hint of What’s to Come?
Reply #38 - Nov 12^th, 2013 at 7:14pm

namnugenot wrote on Nov 12^th, 2013 at 1:09pm:

perceptions_now wrote on Nov 12^th, 2013 at 12:28pm:

... all Actions ...

What actions ...

Are you trolling?

namnugenot wrote on Nov 12^th, 2013 at 12:18pm:

... it does not invalidate it ...

That concession, at least, is healthy.

You can stop trolling now.

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greggerypeccary

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Re: Super Typhoon Haiyan: A Hint of What’s to Come?
Reply #39 - Nov 12^th, 2013 at 7:22pm

namnugenot wrote on Nov 12^th, 2013 at 12:18pm:

# wrote on Nov 12^th, 2013 at 11:52am:

namnugenot wrote on Nov 12^th, 2013 at 10:09am:

...
So these are things the Lab government obviously were blind to as well ...

Tu quoque Quote:

Tu quoque /tuːˈkwoʊkwiː/, (Latin for "you, too" or "you, also") or the appeal to hypocrisy, is a logical fallacy that attempts to discredit the opponent's position by asserting the opponent's failure to act consistently in accordance with that position; it attempts to show that a criticism or objection applies equally to the person making it. This dismisses someone's point of view based on criticism of the person's inconsistency and not the position presented whereas a person's inconsistency should not discredit the position. Thus, it is a form of the ad hominem argument. To clarify, although the person being attacked might indeed be acting inconsistently or hypocritically, this does not invalidate their argument.

No it does not invalidate it...or validate it for that matter... But if someone is acting inconsistently or apparently hypocritically with their stated point of view it is an indication that they do not in fact hold that point of view. Or when that point of view diverges only on the basis of, and directed at, personal characteristics such as race, gender, religion, or politics it is irrational and the basis of such character traits as racism, etc.

If you disagree with David B ( # ), he'll call you a troll.

Just wait and see.

Anyone who doesn't follow his religion is automatically labelled a troll.

It's his way of dealing with conflict (seeing as he doesn't have a convincing argument).

He's a troubled soul, that boy.

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GOP = Guardians Of Paedophiles

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lee

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Re: Super Typhoon Haiyan: A Hint of What’s to Come?
Reply #40 - Nov 12^th, 2013 at 7:53pm

Chimp Logic

'e.g. Twiggy Forest is one of the richest people in Australia - top 4 at one stage. His company Fortesque, has been operating for at leas 22 years in Australia. Total tax paid during this period = zero.'

Fortescue Metals Group was founded in 2002. I was involved in pilotting dongas up to the mine in 2006.

The following from their website - in the overview

"Construction of Fortescue's initial mine, rail and port project commenced in early 2006. Incredibly, just two years later in early 2008, the rail and port infrastructure were completed and operations were underway at Cloudbreak, Fortescue's flagship mine.

In the first full year of operations, Fortescue mined, railed and shipped more than 27 million tonnes of iron ore to customers in China. The following year saw 40 million tonnes delivered and more than 55 million tonnes in FY12, current expansion plans are committed to increasing Fortescue's production capacity to 155 million tonnes per annum. "

Fortescue paid tax in 2012.

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# Gold Member Offline A fool is certain: an ignorant fool, absolutely so Posts: 2603	Re: Super Typhoon Haiyan: A Hint of What’s to Come? Reply #41 - Nov 12^th, 2013 at 7:56pm greggerypeccary wrote on Nov 12^th, 2013 at 7:22pm: ... he'll call you a troll. ... Young wanker*, you're losing your touch. greggerypeccary wrote on Sep 28^th, 2013 at 5:56pm: ... I'm not adverse to onanism ...
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greggerypeccary Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 156186 Gender:	Re: Super Typhoon Haiyan: A Hint of What’s to Come? Reply #42 - Nov 12^th, 2013 at 8:01pm # wrote on Nov 12^th, 2013 at 7:56pm: greggerypeccary wrote on Nov 12^th, 2013 at 7:22pm: ... he'll call you a troll. ... Young wanker*, you're losing your touch. au contraire I'm better than ever.
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perceptions_now

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Re: Super Typhoon Haiyan: A Hint of What’s to Come?
Reply #43 - Nov 12^th, 2013 at 8:22pm

namnugenot wrote on Nov 12^th, 2013 at 1:09pm:

perceptions_now wrote on Nov 12^th, 2013 at 12:28pm:

To those who are not willing to mitigate against the Risks of Climate Change, I would say -
1) There are Consequences, for all Actions & In-actions!

2) Is your major reason, for not taking whatever Mitigation Actions we are capable of, that you -
a) don't believe that the cause is Human related?
b) simply don't believe that the climate is changing at all?
c) believe the climate is changing, but we can not do anything about it?
If you agree with one of the above, please explain your reasons?
If none of the above apply, then please explain your reasoning, for not taking whatever Mitigating actions we can?

3) Scientific opinion is clearly saying that Climate Change is happening and that outcomes will worsen, if Mitigating actions are not taken.
So, do you -
a) Generally not believe what scientists say?
b) Not believe, what Climate scientists in particular are saying?
c) Believe there is some sort of Political or other Conspiracy, for "some reason"?
If you agree with one of the above, please explain your reasons?
If none of the above apply, then please explain your reasoning, for not accepting/believing that the Scientific Consensus is correct?

What actions exactly...you seem to be good at making lists...

There are many, although YOU COULD START HERE -
http://www.ipcc.ch/publications_and_data/ar4/wg3/en/spmsspm-e.html

However, I would suggest IF you were seriously interested, YOU COULD LOOK UP THE ISSUES YOURSELF?

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Soren

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Re: Super Typhoon Haiyan: A Hint of What’s to Come?
Reply #44 - Nov 12^th, 2013 at 9:03pm

# wrote on Nov 11^th, 2013 at 3:21pm:

Super Typhoon Haiyan: A Hint of What’s to Come?

Published: November 8th, 2013

By Andrew Freedman

Not another Andrew Freedman article?!? Shurely shome mishtake!!

The link goes to:

Andrew Freedman
Editorial
Senior Science Writer
Email: afreedman@climatecentral.org
Google+: View Profile
Andrew Freedman is a senior science writer for Climate Central, focusing on coverage of extreme weather and climate change. Prior to working with Climate Central, Freedman was a reporter for Congressional Quarterly and Greenwire/E&E Daily. His work has also appeared in the Washington Post and online at The Weather Channel Interactive and washingtonpost.com, where he wrote a weekly climate science column for the "Capital Weather Gang" blog. He has represented Climate Central in media appearances with Sky News, CBC Radio, NPR, Huffington Post Live, Sirius XM Radio, and other national and international outlets. He holds a Masters in Climate and Society from Columbia University and a Masters in Law and Diplomacy from The Fletcher School at Tufts University.
http://www.climatecentral.org/what-we-do/people/andrew_freedman

Climate and Society, eh? Law and Diplomacy. Another activist agit-prop professional from the vanguard then. Not a scientist, an agitator.

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