Australian Politics Forum - Climate Change Denial is Reality Denial

Doctor Jolly Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 3808	Re: Climate Change Denial is Reality Denial Reply #15 - Nov 11^th, 2013 at 11:16am Where is this data from the 14th century ? Or are you deniers still using poetry as the historical record.... I love a sunburnt country...
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Pantheon

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Re: Climate Change Denial is Reality Denial
Reply #16 - Nov 11^th, 2013 at 11:52am

Doctor Jolly wrote on Nov 11^th, 2013 at 11:16am:

Where is this data from the 14th century ?

try Google its a useful tool

Doctor Jolly wrote on Nov 11^th, 2013 at 11:16am:

are you deniers still using poetry as the historical record.... I love a sunburnt country...

Who said i was a deniers? I clearly said "Although i believe in Climate Change i don't believe it to the same degree as others (as it seems to have evolved to a religion now days.)"

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[b][center]Socialism had been tried on every continent on earth. In light of its results, it's time to question the motives of its advocates.

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ImSpartacus2

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Re: Climate Change Denial is Reality Denial
Reply #17 - Nov 11^th, 2013 at 12:21pm

Pantheon wrote on Nov 11^th, 2013 at 11:52am:

Doctor Jolly wrote on Nov 11^th, 2013 at 11:16am:

Where is this data from the 14th century ?

try Google its a useful tool

Doctor Jolly wrote on Nov 11^th, 2013 at 11:16am:

are you deniers still using poetry as the historical record.... I love a sunburnt country...

Who said i was a deniers? I clearly said "Although i believe in Climate Change i don't believe it to the same degree as others (as it seems to have evolved to a religion now days.)"

What he means is he's a bit pregnant.

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perceptions_now

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Re: Climate Change Denial is Reality Denial
Reply #18 - Nov 11^th, 2013 at 12:23pm

A few observations -
1) I have heard all the usual lines of denial, such as the climate is always changing & that is correct, as can be seen here, for the last 400,000 years -

2) However, that line is largely erroneous, because it is only the affect on humanity & the effects by humanity which are of interest, for us.
In this respect, WE (humanity) have only recently (the last 200 years) grown into numbers sufficiently large, where our sheer numbers could have any substantial effect on the Global Environment AND where "some" of those Global Climate Changes will then have a substantial affect on us, because we now inhabit so much of the planet & that the density of our habitation is now so great, that these changes have so much greater affect now, than at any previous stage of our relatively short "occupation" of this planet.

3) So, whilst the Climate has always "changed", we have not been around long enough for those changes to materially affect us, except for the last Ice Age, which nearly saw us become extinct!

4) As can be seen from the above chart, we are now at or approaching the top of the current warming phase, so unless our involvement kicks us completely out of the usual cycle, we will start into the next Ice Age part of the cycle, in the not too distant future.
In the mean time, we will hit Peak warming & with that will come some Peak weather/climate events, such as extra strong storms, floods and droughts just to mention a few, plus likely large rises in sea levels.

Whether anyone believes in human caused climate change, is largely irrelevant, we are now at the infection point when change will happen anyway and if it does happen over the decades ahead, as seems likely from the best current scientific & anecdotal evidence, then it will happen at a once in history time for humanity, just as our Global Population has acquired "maximum carry capacity", so the outcomes will also reflect our exposure & probably our lack of mitigation against the risks!

Oh & it is also interesting how little comment there is, concerning the human element of the current event/disaster, with deaths expected to number in the many thousands, damage expected to decimate entire regions and peoples well being for quite some time & no, I have not yet heard from Ferdinand!

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namnugenot

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Re: Climate Change Denial is Reality Denial
Reply #19 - Nov 11^th, 2013 at 12:50pm

perceptions_now wrote on Nov 11^th, 2013 at 12:23pm:

A few observations -
1) I have heard all the usual lines of denial, such as the climate is always changing & that is correct, as can be seen here, for the last 400,000 years -
http://www.johnenglander.net/sites/default/files/images/T%20CO2%20SL%20current%2...

2) However, that line is largely erroneous, because it is only the affect on humanity & the effects by humanity which are of interest, for us.
In this respect, WE (humanity) have only recently (the last 200 years) grown into numbers sufficiently large, where our sheer numbers could have any substantial effect on the Global Environment AND where "some" of those Global Climate Changes will then have a substantial affect on us, because we now inhabit so much of the planet & that the density of our habitation is now so great, that these changes have so much greater affect now, than at any previous stage of our relatively short "occupation" of this planet.

3) So, whilst the Climate has always "changed", we have not been around long enough for those changes to materially affect us, except for the last Ice Age, which nearly saw us become extinct!

4) As can be seen from the above chart, we are now at or approaching the top of the current warming phase, so unless our involvement kicks us completely out of the usual cycle, we will start into the next Ice Age part of the cycle, in the not too distant future.
In the mean time, we will hit Peak warming & with that will come some Peak weather/climate events, such as extra strong storms, floods and droughts just to mention a few, plus likely large rises in sea levels.

Whether anyone believes in human caused climate change, is largely irrelevant, we are now at the infection point when change will happen anyway and if it does happen over the decades ahead, as seems likely from the best current scientific & anecdotal evidence, then it will happen at a once in history time for humanity, just as our Global Population has acquired "maximum carry capacity", so the outcomes will also reflect our exposure & probably our lack of mitigation against the risks!

Oh & it is also interesting how little comment there is, concerning the human element of the current event/disaster, with deaths expected to number in the many thousands, damage expected to decimate entire regions and peoples well being for quite some time & no, I have not yet heard from Ferdinand!

In reference to your last comment you might read earlier in your own post ie lots more people = lots more people effected = lots more deaths not necessarily and in all probability NOT more severe events. The US city of Galveston in 1900 when there were many fewer people, was hit by a hurricane that caused about 10,000 deaths. If such an event were to happen today you would really have something to lather up about but the truth is had that happened at that time where the current one hit you would have never known it had ever happened. All this is is opportunism, anecdotal conjecture and finger pointing...100%....science...0%.

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perceptions_now

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Re: Climate Change Denial is Reality Denial
Reply #20 - Nov 11^th, 2013 at 6:42pm

namnugenot wrote on Nov 11^th, 2013 at 12:50pm:

perceptions_now wrote on Nov 11^th, 2013 at 12:23pm:

A few observations -
1) I have heard all the usual lines of denial, such as the climate is always changing & that is correct, as can be seen here, for the last 400,000 years -
http://www.johnenglander.net/sites/default/files/images/T%20CO2%20SL%20current%2...

2) However, that line is largely erroneous, because it is only the affect on humanity & the effects by humanity which are of interest, for us.
In this respect, WE (humanity) have only recently (the last 200 years) grown into numbers sufficiently large, where our sheer numbers could have any substantial effect on the Global Environment AND where "some" of those Global Climate Changes will then have a substantial affect on us, because we now inhabit so much of the planet & that the density of our habitation is now so great, that these changes have so much greater affect now, than at any previous stage of our relatively short "occupation" of this planet.

3) So, whilst the Climate has always "changed", we have not been around long enough for those changes to materially affect us, except for the last Ice Age, which nearly saw us become extinct!

4) As can be seen from the above chart, we are now at or approaching the top of the current warming phase, so unless our involvement kicks us completely out of the usual cycle, we will start into the next Ice Age part of the cycle, in the not too distant future.
In the mean time, we will hit Peak warming & with that will come some Peak weather/climate events, such as extra strong storms, floods and droughts just to mention a few, plus likely large rises in sea levels.

Whether anyone believes in human caused climate change, is largely irrelevant, we are now at the infection point when change will happen anyway and if it does happen over the decades ahead, as seems likely from the best current scientific & anecdotal evidence, then it will happen at a once in history time for humanity, just as our Global Population has acquired "maximum carry capacity", so the outcomes will also reflect our exposure & probably our lack of mitigation against the risks!

Oh & it is also interesting how little comment there is, concerning the human element of the current event/disaster, with deaths expected to number in the many thousands, damage expected to decimate entire regions and peoples well being for quite some time & no, I have not yet heard from Ferdinand!

In reference to your last comment you might read earlier in your own post ie lots more people = lots more people effected = lots more deaths not necessarily and in all probability NOT more severe events. The US city of Galveston in 1900 when there were many fewer people, was hit by a hurricane that caused about 10,000 deaths.

If such an event were to happen today you would really have something to lather up about

but the truth is had that happened at that time where the current one hit you would have never known it had ever happened. All this is is opportunism, anecdotal conjecture and finger pointing...100%....science...0%.

Such an event, just did happen!

It is not anecdotal, it is not finger pointing... 0%, it is Fact ...100% and now is the appropriate time to review our risk mitigation, because if we leave it until the outcomes are absolutely obvious, then it will be far too late and we maywill have given any chance of avoiding the worst outcomes!

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namnugenot

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Re: Climate Change Denial is Reality Denial
Reply #21 - Nov 11^th, 2013 at 10:05pm

perceptions_now wrote on Nov 11^th, 2013 at 6:42pm:

namnugenot wrote on Nov 11^th, 2013 at 12:50pm:

perceptions_now wrote on Nov 11^th, 2013 at 12:23pm:

A few observations -
1) I have heard all the usual lines of denial, such as the climate is always changing & that is correct, as can be seen here, for the last 400,000 years -
http://www.johnenglander.net/sites/default/files/images/T%20CO2%20SL%20current%2...

2) However, that line is largely erroneous, because it is only the affect on humanity & the effects by humanity which are of interest, for us.
In this respect, WE (humanity) have only recently (the last 200 years) grown into numbers sufficiently large, where our sheer numbers could have any substantial effect on the Global Environment AND where "some" of those Global Climate Changes will then have a substantial affect on us, because we now inhabit so much of the planet & that the density of our habitation is now so great, that these changes have so much greater affect now, than at any previous stage of our relatively short "occupation" of this planet.

3) So, whilst the Climate has always "changed", we have not been around long enough for those changes to materially affect us, except for the last Ice Age, which nearly saw us become extinct!

4) As can be seen from the above chart, we are now at or approaching the top of the current warming phase, so unless our involvement kicks us completely out of the usual cycle, we will start into the next Ice Age part of the cycle, in the not too distant future.
In the mean time, we will hit Peak warming & with that will come some Peak weather/climate events, such as extra strong storms, floods and droughts just to mention a few, plus likely large rises in sea levels.

Whether anyone believes in human caused climate change, is largely irrelevant, we are now at the infection point when change will happen anyway and if it does happen over the decades ahead, as seems likely from the best current scientific & anecdotal evidence, then it will happen at a once in history time for humanity, just as our Global Population has acquired "maximum carry capacity", so the outcomes will also reflect our exposure & probably our lack of mitigation against the risks!

Oh & it is also interesting how little comment there is, concerning the human element of the current event/disaster, with deaths expected to number in the many thousands, damage expected to decimate entire regions and peoples well being for quite some time & no, I have not yet heard from Ferdinand!

In reference to your last comment you might read earlier in your own post ie lots more people = lots more people effected = lots more deaths not necessarily and in all probability NOT more severe events. The US city of Galveston in 1900 when there were many fewer people, was hit by a hurricane that caused about 10,000 deaths.

If such an event were to happen today you would really have something to lather up about

but the truth is had that happened at that time where the current one hit you would have never known it had ever happened. All this is is opportunism, anecdotal conjecture and finger pointing...100%....science...0%.

Such an event, just did happen!

It is not anecdotal, it is not finger pointing... 0%, it is Fact ...100% and now is the appropriate time to review our risk mitigation, because if we leave it until the outcomes are absolutely obvious, then it will be far too late and we maywill have given any chance of avoiding the worst outcomes!

Does that mean we won't have any floods, storms, droughts ever again????
No.
So why don't you merchants of misery stop standing on corpses to push your agenda.

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perceptions_now

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Re: Climate Change Denial is Reality Denial
Reply #22 - Nov 11^th, 2013 at 10:51pm

namnugenot wrote on Nov 11^th, 2013 at 10:05pm:

perceptions_now wrote on Nov 11^th, 2013 at 6:42pm:

Such an event, just did happen!

It is not anecdotal, it is not finger pointing... 0%, it is Fact ...100% and now is the appropriate time to review our risk mitigation, because if we leave it until the outcomes are absolutely obvious, then it will be far too late and we maywill have given any chance of avoiding the worst outcomes!

Does that mean we won't have any floods, storms, droughts ever again????
No.
So why don't you merchants of misery stop standing on corpses to push your agenda.

That's correct, we will have all of those!!!

So, why don't you & others who deny Reality, stop trying to avoid there aren't some very, very serious issues here, that require as much mitigation effort as we can muster & MORE, If we have any chance of avoiding the worst of the likely Climate Change outcomes!
The fact is, there will be plenty of misery to go around, But there will be more if we don't face up to our responsibilities for the future, NOW!

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BatteriesNotIncluded

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Re: Climate Change Denial is Reality Denial
Reply #23 - Nov 11^th, 2013 at 10:59pm

ImSpartacus2 wrote on Nov 11^th, 2013 at 12:21pm:

Pantheon wrote on Nov 11^th, 2013 at 11:52am:

Doctor Jolly wrote on Nov 11^th, 2013 at 11:16am:

Where is this data from the 14th century ?

try Google its a useful tool

Doctor Jolly wrote on Nov 11^th, 2013 at 11:16am:

are you deniers still using poetry as the historical record.... I love a sunburnt country...

Who said i was a deniers? I clearly said "Although i believe in Climate Change i don't believe it to the same degree as others (as it seems to have evolved to a religion now days.)"

What he means is he's a bit pregnant.

He admires the mealy mouthed john howard, but not too much as to make him unelectable Cool

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*Sure....they're anti competitive as any subsidised job is. It wouldn't be there without the tax payer. Very damned difficult for a brainwashed collectivist to understand that I know.... (swaggy) *

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BatteriesNotIncluded Gold Member Offline MediocrityNET: because people died for this! Posts: 26966	Re: Climate Change Denial is Reality Denial Reply #24 - Nov 11^th, 2013 at 11:02pm Who are the terrorists?
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Emma

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Re: Climate Change Denial is Reality Denial
Reply #25 - Nov 11^th, 2013 at 11:42pm

Looks like an uberstorm to me..
(see Books by Peter J Hamilton).

This is , seriously, a major stick up the arse for people who laugh at the idea that something might be awry with our weather. To suggest that there are records that show the 1660's as having worse storms is simply ludicrous.

Even IF that were true... human population is so much denser now,, that such a suggestion is simply laughable.

Remember Sandi?? Hit the US..??
remember the current disastrous yrs of hellish tornadoes in the US, of previously unrecorded size, duration, and impact.?

This is just a coincidence eh.??
Try looking at National Geographic.. who about a yr ago... published an assessment of weather data ... in an issue.. where ... What is Happening To Our Weather ?? was the Cover story.
It is so clear that the incidence and power of these storms .. has been significantly increasing, and there is an undenial increase. in 'recent' times... as compared to the historical data we hold.

Cling for your life to your denial for a little comfort ..if you like.. it will MAKE NO DIFFERENCE.
Just... YOU will be in for the shock of your wee life.. when it finally sinks in..

I wonder what it will take to convince the malingering climate change denier????

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live every day

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Swagman Gold Member Offline Beware of cheap imitations...... Posts: 15095 Illawarra NSW Gender:	Re: Climate Change Denial is Reality Denial Reply #26 - Nov 11^th, 2013 at 11:47pm ...A lot more than an isolated weather event
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Emma Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 9853 OZ Gender:	Re: Climate Change Denial is Reality Denial Reply #27 - Nov 11^th, 2013 at 11:58pm umm you seem to be forgetting all the other global weather 'events'.. which have been happening.. all over the world in the last few yrs.. an ISOLATED ? weather event..?? You really must have serious memory loss... er 'selective' memory loss.
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Quantum

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Re: Climate Change Denial is Reality Denial
Reply #28 - Nov 12^th, 2013 at 12:18am

Emma wrote on Nov 11^th, 2013 at 11:42pm:

To suggest that there are records that show the 1660's as having worse storms is simply ludicrous.

Even IF that were true... human population is so much denser now,, that such a suggestion is simply laughable.

You want to think about that one again? Just because more people are affected by any one storm doesn't make the storm bigger.

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BatteriesNotIncluded

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Re: Climate Change Denial is Reality Denial
Reply #29 - Nov 12^th, 2013 at 2:22am

Quantum wrote on Nov 12^th, 2013 at 12:18am:

Emma wrote on Nov 11^th, 2013 at 11:42pm:

To suggest that there are records that show the 1660's as having worse storms is simply ludicrous.

Even IF that were true... human population is so much denser now,, that such a suggestion is simply laughable.

You want to think about that one again? Just because more people are affected by any one storm doesn't make the storm bigger.

Nazis love playing word games........

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*Sure....they're anti competitive as any subsidised job is. It wouldn't be there without the tax payer. Very damned difficult for a brainwashed collectivist to understand that I know.... (swaggy) *

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