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cods

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Re: Moronic Milne
Reply #15 - Nov 4^th, 2013 at 4:06pm

Grendel wrote on Nov 4^th, 2013 at 2:59pm:

Kat wrote on Nov 4^th, 2013 at 2:09pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Nov 4^th, 2013 at 12:04pm:

Grendel wrote on Nov 4^th, 2013 at 11:05am:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Nov 4^th, 2013 at 6:21am:

The Greens are, rightly, on the edge of oblivion. They'll surely go the way of the Democrats soon.

you only need both major parties to put them last that is what they did to get rid of One Nation and The Democrats.

the be fair, one nation destroyed themselves by being moronic and incompetent while the Democrats self-immolated by abandoning the based and moving solidly to the left only to find that almost no one followed them there.

The Greens have been shown up as the clowns they always were. like every 3rd party that preceded them, they are on the way down.

Actually, it was because they sold-out to Howard.

Do tell the truth.

Nope.... not true.
They had 2 very good leaders Chipp and Haines. One good leader Lees and whole lot of no-hopers waiting in line. Their policies were not that much different than One Nation's yet they and other's portrayed ON as a party of racist rednecks. This was not true. The real reason the Democrats attacked ON was because they were competing with them directly for votes.
The rot started to set in when the progressive far Left of the Democrats; Stott Despoja, Kernott, Bartlett and Coulter... started to gain control.
More than anything else, these people and the lurch to the Left was the reason for their downfall.
Like the Liberals and One Nation, the Labor Party started seeing the Dems as a threat to their votes... hence putting them last. Protect the status quo...

me thinks Kernott would have definitely had something to do with slinking left.. Wink

what is it they say about PILLOW TALK?

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cods

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Re: Moronic Milne
Reply #16 - Nov 4^th, 2013 at 4:08pm

Grendel wrote on Nov 4^th, 2013 at 3:58pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 4^th, 2013 at 3:07pm:

we should archive this thread and 10 years time when Greens are polling close to 20% of the vote, bring it back out to make fun of the poor fuddy duddies here.

So you still believe in fantasies and miracles... good for you. Should have guessed from the name Grin

he forgets the world wont be here in 10 years time..climate change is coming.. Roll Eyes

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longweekend58

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Re: Moronic Milne
Reply #17 - Nov 4^th, 2013 at 4:28pm

Grendel wrote on Nov 4^th, 2013 at 12:12pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Nov 4^th, 2013 at 12:04pm:

Grendel wrote on Nov 4^th, 2013 at 11:05am:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Nov 4^th, 2013 at 6:21am:

The Greens are, rightly, on the edge of oblivion. They'll surely go the way of the Democrats soon.

you only need both major parties to put them last that is what they did to get rid of One Nation and The Democrats.

the be fair, one nation destroyed themselves by being moronic and incompetent while the Democrats self-immolated by abandoning the based and moving solidly to the left only to find that almost no one followed them there.

The Greens have been shown up as the clowns they always were. like every 3rd party that preceded them, they are on the way down.

Seems to me you know nothing about One Nation except the negative propaganda.
Kernot made the Dems pseudo Labor, still not a reason for the labs to put them last.
The 2 major parties just want to maintain the status quo... which is why we need a 3rd major party.

One Nation destroyed itself once it won 11 seats in the QLD election and voters discovered how little they knew about anything even related to governing. No matter what side of politics you sit on if you get elected and then say 'well now what do I do' you wont get a second chance and nor do you deserve one.

The Dems had a succession of bad leaders who weren't up to the job and Spot-remover then took them firmly to the left where they perished.

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longweekend58

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Re: Moronic Milne
Reply #18 - Nov 4^th, 2013 at 4:29pm

Dsmithy70 wrote on Nov 4^th, 2013 at 12:13pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Nov 4^th, 2013 at 12:04pm:

moving solidly to the left only to find that almost no one followed them there.

Your rewriting of history really gives me a laugh at times.

Supporting the GST was a move to the left.

Grin

The dems only had a conscience vote on it and the party was split. the brighter ones figured they would negotiate for what they could get while the dopey ones just said NO and got nothing at all. the GST was inevitable and voting against it was pointless.

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longweekend58

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Re: Moronic Milne
Reply #19 - Nov 4^th, 2013 at 4:33pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 4^th, 2013 at 3:07pm:

we should archive this thread and 10 years time when Greens are polling close to 20% of the vote, bring it back out to make fun of the poor fuddy duddies here.

feel free to do so but history aint on your side and we are already mocking your greeny butts for the 30% drop in the vote this time around which was predicted by me and others years ago. the ONLY third party to gain any longevity was the democrats and they did so by specifically NOT being a party in their own right but a conscience (and thorn) to the govt of the day. as soon as they abandoned that they died at the same pace as the Greens are currently dropping as well.

We've seen it all before and there is zero evidence to suggest the Greens will ever return to double-digit support. You certainly wouldn't call dropping constantly for the last 3 years a good indicator!

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polite_gandalf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20027 Canberra Gender:	Re: Moronic Milne Reply #20 - Nov 4^th, 2013 at 5:32pm longweekend58 wrote on Nov 4^th, 2013 at 4:33pm: we are already mocking your greeny butts for the 30% drop in the vote this time around You mean the second biggest ever vote for the Greens.
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longweekend58

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Re: Moronic Milne
Reply #21 - Nov 4^th, 2013 at 5:39pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 4^th, 2013 at 5:32pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Nov 4^th, 2013 at 4:33pm:

we are already mocking your greeny butts for the 30% drop in the vote this time around

You mean the second biggest ever vote for the Greens.

top points for optimism.

NO points for realism.

and in 2016 it will be the THIRD biggest vote ever??? Grin

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Grendel

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Re: Moronic Milne
Reply #22 - Nov 4^th, 2013 at 5:41pm

Quote:

One Nation destroyed itself once it won 11 seats in the QLD election and voters discovered how little they knew about anything even related to governing. No matter what side of politics you sit on if you get elected and then say 'well now what do I do' you wont get a second chance and nor do you deserve one.

Ah no it didn't... in fact it still exists. Even if it is now totally dysfunctional. It's problem wasn't the party or the policy it was the image of the leader and the negative propaganda it didn't deal with properly.
One Nation was not simply Pauline Hanson. David Oldfield had political experience, Hanson had grassroots support. People from both sides of politics agreed with many of their policies. people from both sides of politics joined the party. Most of them were Conservative. Most of them took the time to read the policies and check out the party first hand. Abbott admitted that there was no moral reasons to attack ON, it was all about politics.

Quote:

The Dems had a succession of bad leaders who weren't up to the job and Spot-remover then took them firmly to the left where they perished.

Kernot took them to the Left. You do know about Kernot don't you? Cods does.
I'm starting to get the feeling you haven't been around Australian politics that long.
Bartlett was the nail in the proverbial... he eventually joined The Greens after I told him that is where he actually belonged for years on his blog.

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Grendel Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 28080 Gender:	Re: Moronic Milne Reply #23 - Nov 4^th, 2013 at 5:42pm polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 4^th, 2013 at 5:32pm: longweekend58 wrote on Nov 4^th, 2013 at 4:33pm: we are already mocking your greeny butts for the 30% drop in the vote this time around You mean the second biggest ever vote for the Greens. Not much of a vote eh...
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polite_gandalf

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Re: Moronic Milne
Reply #24 - Nov 4^th, 2013 at 5:47pm

longweekend58 wrote on Nov 4^th, 2013 at 4:33pm:

which was predicted by me and others years ago.

Yeah but you and the rest of the congo line also predicted Adam Bandt had no chance after losing liberal preferences. Greens get one slight hit to their primary vote (like all the left parties), which will still likely see them gain one extra senate seat - and suddenly its their imminent demise. Sounds more like wishful thinking on your part. As I've said repeatedly before, the Greens are a worldwide movement, standing for a movement that is only going to increase in relevance. The future is Green politics, cause the issue aint going away - its only becoming more important.

longweekend58 wrote on Nov 4^th, 2013 at 4:33pm:

We've seen it all before and there is zero evidence to suggest the Greens will ever return to double-digit support.

Like I said, purely wishful thinking on your part that has no basis in fact. Your mistake is dismissing the Greens as "just another third/protest party". They stand on a solid policy platform, based around the most relevant global issue we have ever had - and its relevant regardless of whether or not you believe in man-made climate change. What did the Dems stand for? Thats the whole point, no one understood what they stood for, were they progressive alternatives to the labor? Or were they merely there to keep the bastards honest? Who knows, who cares. But there can be no confusion for what the Greens stand for, and they have a constituency, which can only grow with our long term demographics. Or do you think our population will be forever dominated by baby-boomer stick-in-the-muds who will vote liberal/national no matter what? Roll Eyes

In any case, no one in their right mind would predict the imminent demise of a party who just received their second biggest vote ever, and are likely to increase their parliamentary presence. Thats just irrational hysteria on your part.

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longweekend58

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Re: Moronic Milne
Reply #25 - Nov 4^th, 2013 at 5:49pm

Grendel wrote on Nov 4^th, 2013 at 5:41pm:

Quote:

One Nation destroyed itself once it won 11 seats in the QLD election and voters discovered how little they knew about anything even related to governing. No matter what side of politics you sit on if you get elected and then say 'well now what do I do' you wont get a second chance and nor do you deserve one.

Ah no it didn't... in fact it still exists. Even if it is now totally dysfunctional. It's problem wasn't the party or the policy it was the image of the leader and the negative propaganda it didn't deal with properly.
One Nation was not simply Pauline Hanson. David Oldfield had political experience, Hanson had grassroots support. People from both sides of politics agreed with many of their policies. people from both sides of politics joined the party. Most of them were Conservative. Most of them took the time to read the policies and check out the party first hand. Abbott admitted that there was no moral reasons to attack ON, it was all about politics.

Quote:

The Dems had a succession of bad leaders who weren't up to the job and Spot-remover then took them firmly to the left where they perished.

Kernot took them to the Left. You do know about Kernot don't you? Cods does.
I'm starting to get the feeling you haven't been around Australian politics that long.
Bartlett was the nail in the proverbial... he eventually joined The Greens after I told him that is where he actually belonged for years on his blog.

that is nonsense and sounds like the storyas told by a passionate ON supporter. Like it or not ON WAS Pauline hanson. she was the leader, spokesman and policy deviser. and she was/is a dope - particularly when she started. Their polices were a combination of extreme and naïve plus just plain stupid. that is how after a stellar start (11seats) they lost them all next time around. and if you think Abbott didn't oppose their polices then you obviously weren't reading much at the time. ON was racist and other 'ists' but too incompetent to even declare 'them' well.

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longweekend58

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Re: Moronic Milne
Reply #26 - Nov 4^th, 2013 at 5:53pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 4^th, 2013 at 5:47pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Nov 4^th, 2013 at 4:33pm:

which was predicted by me and others years ago.

Yeah but you and the rest of the congo line also predicted Adam Bandt had no chance after losing liberal preferences. Greens get one slight hit to their primary vote (like all the left parties), which will still likely see them gain one extra senate seat - and suddenly its their imminent demise. Sounds more like wishful thinking on your part. As I've said repeatedly before, the Greens are a worldwide movement, standing for a movement that is only going to increase in relevance. The future is Green politics, cause the issue aint going away - its only becoming more important.

longweekend58 wrote on Nov 4^th, 2013 at 4:33pm:

We've seen it all before and there is zero evidence to suggest the Greens will ever return to double-digit support.

Like I said, purely wishful thinking on your part that has no basis in fact. Your mistake is dismissing the Greens as "just another third/protest party". They stand on a solid policy platform, based around the most relevant global issue we have ever had - and its relevant regardless of whether or not you believe in man-made climate change. What did the Dems stand for? Thats the whole point, no one understood what they stood for, were they progressive alternatives to the labor? Or were they merely there to keep the bastards honest? Who knows, who cares. But there can be no confusion for what the Greens stand for, and they have a constituency, which can only grow with our long term demographics. Or do you think our population will be forever dominated by baby-boomer stick-in-the-muds who will vote liberal/national no matter what? Roll Eyes

In any case, no one in their right mind would predict the imminent demise of a party who just received their second biggest vote ever, and are likely to increase their parliamentary presence. Thats just irrational hysteria on your part.

that 30% drop in the vote really hasn't filtered past your prejudcies, has it? Bandt did well but he was the only one that did. 27% down in the HoR and 30% down in the senate is a dreadful result. Do that one more time and the 6 senators standing for election in 2016 will end up being just 2.

I AM dismissing them as just another third party because that have totally failed to distinguish themselves from the 3rd parties that have come before. They all had slow rises to prominence and then got a sniff of power at which time the electorate started to dump them. The greens made a mess of balance of power and is the main reason for the save drop in their vote.

but maintaint the delusion but how about put together a cogent argument to explain how they will grow to be a powerful 3rd force when they are in such savage decline across the country. they have suffered massive drops over the past 3 years.

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red baron Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 10204 Blue Mountains Gender:	Re: Moronic Milne Reply #27 - Nov 4^th, 2013 at 5:57pm Bloody Ripper, the essence of your posts are fine but you are killing yourself with poor spelling. It takes away from what you are saying.
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polite_gandalf

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Re: Moronic Milne
Reply #28 - Nov 4^th, 2013 at 6:35pm

longweekend58 wrote on Nov 4^th, 2013 at 5:53pm:

that 30% drop in the vote really hasn't filtered past your prejudcies, has it? Bandt did well but he was the only one that did. 27% down in the HoR and 30% down in the senate is a dreadful result. Do that one more time and the 6 senators standing for election in 2016 will end up being just 2.

What hasn't filtered past your prejudice is that the 2010 result was unrealistically high - from around 7% to 13% was always going to be tough to sustain. Settling back to 8% is right in line with the consistent trend up to the 2010 result.

Greens dropped in 2013 not because they are Greens, but because labor was on the nose, and the Greens were seen to be associated with them. Come next election, and the libs should receive a swing against them - as pretty much every single first term government has suffered in the history of Australian elections. In that case, its very hard to imagine the Greens won't get a lift as part of a general swing towards the left.

longweekend58 wrote on Nov 4^th, 2013 at 5:53pm:

but maintaint the delusion but how about put together a cogent argument to explain how they will grow to be a powerful 3rd force when they are in such savage decline across the country. they have suffered massive drops over the past 3 years.

lol - 'savage decline' based on one bad result after more than 20 years of continuous increase - when the reasons for that one bad result are easily identified as owing to labor's disaster over the last 6 years.

tell you what sport, how about you give me a cogent argument for dismissing them as just another third party who are so definitely on the verge of collapse based on nothing other than because thats what all third parties have done? I'll give you an example of "just another third party" - a party whose vote goes up and down like a yo yo - from 12% to 5% to 10% in the space of 3 elections - then a steady decline thereafter. As opposed to a party which has an actual platform that is relevant to our generation, and has solidly increased their vote from 1.7% in 96 to 8.6% in 2013, with only one decline over 7 elections. Not spectacular jumps and falls over the course of multiple elections, but slow and steady consolidation.

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Grendel

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Re: Moronic Milne
Reply #29 - Nov 4^th, 2013 at 7:11pm

Quote:

that is nonsense and sounds like the storyas told by a passionate ON supporter. Like it or not ON WAS Pauline hanson. she was the leader, spokesman and policy deviser.

ah no she wasn't. She was someone who put voice to what many people were thinking through the PC years where people who questioned multiculti were branded racist. She was drafted into a party she didn't want to have anything to do with initially. The party was much more than Hanson, and she never came up with a policy.

and she was/is a dope - particularly when she started.

She's not a dope, but she isn't the brightest light on the xmas tree... I can name any number of ALP, Green and LIB members that also fit that bill. You should check out the back benchers.

Their polices were a combination of extreme and naïve plus just plain stupid.

Really. Do you know any or do you just know what the media and the negative propaganda told you?

that is how after a stellar start (11seats) they lost them all next time around.

they lost them because of a few bad representatives, the bad publicity and a great lack of funding and of course the policy where every other party PUT ONE NATION LAST...

and if you think Abbott didn't oppose their polices then you obviously weren't reading much at the time.

I was reading everything at the time. How do you think I know what he finally said/admitted on the subject?

ON was racist and other 'ists' but too incompetent to even declare 'them' well.

ON wasn't racist... it was in fact traditional labor, you fell for the ALP propaganda... the ALP hoped to taint the Libs by muddying the waters and branding Hanson an ex-Lib a racist... In June 1988, the ex-Prime Minister John Howard had a lot to say about the inappropriateness of Multiculturalism; “I think it is a rather aimless and divisive policy and I think it ought to be changed.” was he a racist too? Hayden had similar thoughts on the subject. You should stick to stuff you actually know about and it's looking like just the last decade.

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