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Nuclear prices itself out of market (Read 4875 times)
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Nuclear prices itself out of market
Nov 1st, 2013 at 7:23pm
 
Graph of the Day: Nuclear prices itself out of market

By Giles Parkinson on 1 November 2013

The extent to which nuclear is being priced out of electricity markets has finally been revealed by the pricing mechanism unveiled by the British government in the deal to subsidise the Hinkley C nuclear.

The UK government will pay £92.5 for each megawatt hour produced from hinkley ($A154/MWh), around double the prevailing market price. This is after the UK supplied a loan guarantee for 65 per cent of the estimated $24 billion capital cost. The “strike price” – a fancy name for a feed in tariff – also has an escalator to take into account the impact of inflation, so the cost will rise in coming years.

So how does this compare with rival clean energy technologies? Pretty badly as it turns out.

This graph below, published by Craig Morris in Renewable Energy World reveals that the rates that will be offered for new nuclear from 2023 in the UK are far above what solar and wind currently cost. And, as Morris points out, the rates for solar and wind will go down by then, not up! Even offshore wind is getting £95/MWh from 2018 in the UK, but only for 15 years and without any loan guarantees.

...


This second graph below is even more interesting. It takes into account all the expensive PV that was installed with really high feed in tariffs at the start of Germany’s energy transition before the price of solar fell dramatically. From 2023, when the Hinkley reactor is due to be switched on, nuclear at this price still fairs poorly, and as the cost of those tariffs continue to decline, the cost of nuclear will continue to rise. It’s probably as good an illustration as any as to why Germany are not interested in new nuclear power station, and few countries are.

...
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Re: Nuclear prices itself out of market
Reply #1 - Nov 1st, 2013 at 8:28pm
 
New nuclear plants are becoming difficult to justify anywhere.

The danger is that long established nuclear power stations run quite cheaply and safely, with very little greenhouse gas emissions. Replacing these with fossil fuel generated electricity is a step backwards.
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Re: Nuclear prices itself out of market
Reply #2 - Nov 1st, 2013 at 8:45pm
 
How hard is it to shut down nuclear plants if in future there was a transition to something (more) renewable and efficient? I imagine that's an issue?
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Re: Nuclear prices itself out of market
Reply #3 - Nov 1st, 2013 at 9:10pm
 
Vuk11 wrote on Nov 1st, 2013 at 8:45pm:
How hard is it to shut down nuclear plants if in future there was a transition to something (more) renewable and efficient? I imagine that's an issue?


The longer they run for, the cheaper they become. They factor in the design lifetime when deciding whether its justified to build them.
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Re: Nuclear prices itself out of market
Reply #4 - Nov 1st, 2013 at 9:23pm
 
Nuclear power economics was over taken by solar thermal efficiency costs in the year 2010.

In reality nuclear power is totally off the spectrum with respect to capital and power generation costs. As we may all know, no nuclear power plant in the world today (over 500 plants world wide) can be insured for public liability and compensation in the event of a nuclear disaster. No nuclear power plan has been built solely by the private sector or funded purely by stock market floats. They always receive state tax payer funding and guarantees.

And of course nobody talks about the costs for nuclear waste storage and/or treatment, plant decommissioning and site remediation costs.

Shhhhhhhhhhh......
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Re: Nuclear prices itself out of market
Reply #5 - Nov 2nd, 2013 at 2:00am
 
Chimp_Logic wrote on Nov 1st, 2013 at 9:23pm:
Nuclear power economics was over taken by solar thermal efficiency costs in the year 2010.

In reality nuclear power is totally off the spectrum with respect to capital and power generation costs. As we may all know, no nuclear power plant in the world today (over 500 plants world wide) can be insured for public liability and compensation in the event of a nuclear disaster. No nuclear power plan has been built solely by the private sector or funded purely by stock market floats. They always receive state tax payer funding and guarantees.

And of course nobody talks about the costs for nuclear waste storage and/or treatment, plant decommissioning and site remediation costs.

Shhhhhhhhhhh......

Ultimately this can't be true: solar thermal needs weeks of storage to even be considered viable and w/out the tax payer dollar it will always remain hamstrung! SAD BUT TRUE!!
NO SAYING IT CAN'T HAPPEN but w/out society giving it taxpayer dollars for r&d it's bunkified  Cry
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*Sure....they're anti competitive as any subsidised job is.  It wouldn't be there without the tax payer.  Very damned difficult for a brainwashed collectivist to understand that I know....  (swaggy) *
 
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Re: Nuclear prices itself out of market
Reply #6 - Nov 2nd, 2013 at 7:32am
 
muso wrote on Nov 1st, 2013 at 9:10pm:
Vuk11 wrote on Nov 1st, 2013 at 8:45pm:
How hard is it to shut down nuclear plants if in future there was a transition to something (more) renewable and efficient? I imagine that's an issue?


The longer they run for, the cheaper they become. They factor in the design lifetime when deciding whether its justified to build them.



...and the more dangerous and lethal they become

...the more brittle their reactor pressure vessels and containments become due to neutron bombardment and other factors such as corrosion and fatigue...

the more waste they generate....

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Re: Nuclear prices itself out of market
Reply #7 - Nov 2nd, 2013 at 7:37am
 
BatteriesNotIncluded wrote on Nov 2nd, 2013 at 2:00am:
Chimp_Logic wrote on Nov 1st, 2013 at 9:23pm:
Nuclear power economics was over taken by solar thermal efficiency costs in the year 2010.

In reality nuclear power is totally off the spectrum with respect to capital and power generation costs. As we may all know, no nuclear power plant in the world today (over 500 plants world wide) can be insured for public liability and compensation in the event of a nuclear disaster. No nuclear power plan has been built solely by the private sector or funded purely by stock market floats. They always receive state tax payer funding and guarantees.

And of course nobody talks about the costs for nuclear waste storage and/or treatment, plant decommissioning and site remediation costs.

Shhhhhhhhhhh......

Ultimately this can't be true: solar thermal needs weeks of storage to even be considered viable and w/out the tax payer dollar it will always remain hamstrung! SAD BUT TRUE!!
NO SAYING IT CAN'T HAPPEN but w/out society giving it taxpayer dollars for r&d it's bunkified  Cry


Solar Thermal is already a base load continuous power generating source, that operates on a large scale..

Almost all the tax payer dollars go to the fossil fuel sectors and the deranged nuclear industry.

And that doesn't include the funding of OIL wars and military invasions and huge outlays to protect the corporatisation of energy and mining resources throughout the globe

THe table is rigged.

The dice are loaded

The psycho-sociopathic corporate fascists are in charge - they have escaped from the Asylum and are masquerading as Political puppetry leaders and corporate CEOs.


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Re: Nuclear prices itself out of market
Reply #8 - Nov 2nd, 2013 at 11:26am
 
muso wrote on Nov 1st, 2013 at 8:28pm:
New nuclear plants are becoming difficult to justify anywhere.

The danger is that long established nuclear power stations run quite cheaply and safely, with very little greenhouse gas emissions. Replacing these with fossil fuel generated electricity is a step backwards.


Have you forgotten about Chernobyl.....???

Or Fukushima.

The very foundation of western civilisation is built on fossil fuels.........!!!!!
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1. There has never been a more serious assault on our standard of living than Anthropogenic Global Warming..Ajax
2. "One hour of freedom is worth more than 40 years of slavery &  prison" Regas Feraeos
 
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Re: Nuclear prices itself out of market
Reply #9 - Nov 2nd, 2013 at 12:12pm
 
Ajax wrote on Nov 2nd, 2013 at 11:26am:
muso wrote on Nov 1st, 2013 at 8:28pm:
New nuclear plants are becoming difficult to justify anywhere.

The danger is that long established nuclear power stations run quite cheaply and safely, with very little greenhouse gas emissions. Replacing these with fossil fuel generated electricity is a step backwards.


Have you forgotten about Chernobyl.....???

Or Fukushima.

The very foundation of western civilisation is built on fossil fuels.........!!!!!


A single response applicable to both comments


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Re: Nuclear prices itself out of market
Reply #10 - Nov 2nd, 2013 at 2:35pm
 
muso wrote on Nov 1st, 2013 at 8:28pm:
New nuclear plants are becoming difficult to justify anywhere.

The danger is that long established nuclear power stations run quite cheaply and safely, with very little greenhouse gas emissions. Replacing these with fossil fuel generated electricity is a step backwards.

Given developments in renewables and the surprising advances in storage, is that likely to be necessary - or even cost-effective? The Germans seem to have done pretty well, even with the current state of technology.
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Re: Nuclear prices itself out of market
Reply #11 - Nov 2nd, 2013 at 3:19pm
 
# wrote on Nov 2nd, 2013 at 2:35pm:
muso wrote on Nov 1st, 2013 at 8:28pm:
New nuclear plants are becoming difficult to justify anywhere.

The danger is that long established nuclear power stations run quite cheaply and safely, with very little greenhouse gas emissions. Replacing these with fossil fuel generated electricity is a step backwards.

Given developments in renewables and the surprising advances in storage, is that likely to be necessary - or even cost-effective? The Germans seem to have done pretty well, even with the current state of technology.


...and the Germans don't have ideal solar radiation bathing their landscapes

The Germans look at Australia and must laugh their heads off as to how stupid we appear to the rest of the planet.

...
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Re: Nuclear prices itself out of market
Reply #12 - Nov 2nd, 2013 at 7:10pm
 
# wrote on Nov 2nd, 2013 at 2:35pm:
muso wrote on Nov 1st, 2013 at 8:28pm:
New nuclear plants are becoming difficult to justify anywhere.

The danger is that long established nuclear power stations run quite cheaply and safely, with very little greenhouse gas emissions. Replacing these with fossil fuel generated electricity is a step backwards.

Given developments in renewables and the surprising advances in storage, is that likely to be necessary - or even cost-effective? The Germans seem to have done pretty well, even with the current state of technology.


Yes, and I guess Solar installations are not affected by jellyfish either.
http://news.sp@m/animals/jellyfish-shut-down-swedish-nuclear-reactor-131002.htm

Quote:
Jellyfish Shut Down Swedish Nuclear Reactor


Jellyfish are becoming more of a hazard worldwide.


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Re: Nuclear prices itself out of market
Reply #13 - Nov 3rd, 2013 at 1:56am
 
# wrote on Nov 2nd, 2013 at 2:35pm:
muso wrote on Nov 1st, 2013 at 8:28pm:
New nuclear plants are becoming difficult to justify anywhere.

The danger is that long established nuclear power stations run quite cheaply and safely, with very little greenhouse gas emissions. Replacing these with fossil fuel generated electricity is a step backwards.

Given developments in renewables and the surprising advances in storage, is that likely to be necessary - or even cost-effective? The Germans seem to have done pretty well, even with the current state of technology.

WHAT ADVANCES in storage  Roll Eyes?
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*Sure....they're anti competitive as any subsidised job is.  It wouldn't be there without the tax payer.  Very damned difficult for a brainwashed collectivist to understand that I know....  (swaggy) *
 
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Re: Nuclear prices itself out of market
Reply #14 - Nov 3rd, 2013 at 7:09am
 
BatteriesNotIncluded wrote on Nov 3rd, 2013 at 1:56am:
# wrote on Nov 2nd, 2013 at 2:35pm:
muso wrote on Nov 1st, 2013 at 8:28pm:
New nuclear plants are becoming difficult to justify anywhere.

The danger is that long established nuclear power stations run quite cheaply and safely, with very little greenhouse gas emissions. Replacing these with fossil fuel generated electricity is a step backwards.

Given developments in renewables and the surprising advances in storage, is that likely to be necessary - or even cost-effective? The Germans seem to have done pretty well, even with the current state of technology.

WHAT ADVANCES in storage  Roll Eyes?


The large scale Spanish solar thermal plant can store enough energy in its molten salt circuits that it can run 24/7 - effectively making it a base load power source.

The solar Hot Water systems on domestic and commercial rooftops often have a back up booster coil or gas burner, to cater for periods where the hot water has run out.

The Solar Hot water system installed on our roof has a gas booster on the main tank. Its been running for close to 5 years now and has never come on for more than 8% of the year. So greater than 92% of the energy used to heat the water comes directly from the sun. The whole system should pay itself off after about 6 or 7 years.

The large solar thermal plants are becoming very advanced in insulation technology and the type and composition of molten salts that they use. They are also now designing in extra storage capacity because the capital investment is worthwhile.

There is also the Solar Tower project proposed by Australian company Environmission -  different conceptual idea but nevertheless a 24/7 base load option (although the output does drop during the night to about 50 - 65%)

Animation
http://www.enviromission.com.au/irm/content/movies/towerfunction.html
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