Quote:





Man needs a higher standard, than what he himself judges to be correct/moral.

Because our human history records, that at every opportunity to do so, man will always corrupt himself.

It is just in our nature.

We cannot help it.

???






While Moses was on the mountain communing with God....

Exodus 32:6
....and the people sat down to eat and to drink, and rose up to play.
7  And the LORD said unto Moses, Go, get thee down; for thy people, which thou broughtest out of the land of Egypt, have corrupted themselves:


Exodus 32:15
And Moses turned, and went down from the mount, and the two tables of the testimony were in his hand: the tables were written on both their sides; on the one side and on the other were they written.
16  And the tables were the work of God, and the writing was the writing of God, graven upon the tables.
17  And when Joshua heard the noise of the people as they shouted, he said unto Moses, There is a noise of war in the camp.
18  And he said, It is not the voice of them that shout for mastery, neither is it the voice of them that cry for being overcome: but the noise of them that sing do I hear.


Reflecting on those verses from Exodus, if there is a God, does God object to men [and women] 'pleasing themselves' ?

Is that what you believe ?

To God [if there is a God], is the 'act' of men [and women] pleasing themselves, 'sin' ?








If we make a poor choice in life [e.g. if we make a choice that has serious and detremental consequence for ourself, or for someone not connected to ourself], are we justified in continuing to make the same poor choice, again and again ?

Or, is it no one else's 'business' ?




Is a conscience merely an inner 'commentary', on the choices we make or witness, in this world ?

If there is a God, and if he guides our 'conscience', how does he achieve that ?



And, what is a 'conscience' ?

Does a conscience take any 'tangible' [quantifiable] form, or is a conscience, just an inner 'voice' ?


+++

'We're only human, we're supposed to make mistakes.'

- - Billy Joel


Ecclesiastes 7:1
A good name is better than precious ointment; and the day of death than the day of one's birth.
2  It is better to go to the house of mourning, than to go to the house of feasting: for that is the end of all men; and the living will lay it to his heart.
3  Sorrow is better than laughter: for by the sadness of the countenance the heart is made better.
4  The heart of the wise is in the house of mourning; but the heart of fools is in the house of mirth.


Ezekiel 18:4
Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.







The OT refers to ancient Israel as the 'hosts', for the spirit of God.

And to the God of Israel, as, the LORD of hosts.

"...the God of the spirits of all flesh."

Exodus 29:45
And I will dwell among the children of Israel, and will be their God.
46  And they shall know that I am the LORD their God, that brought them forth out of the land of Egypt, that I may dwell among them: I am the LORD their God.


1 Corinthians 3:16
Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

Annie,

I have been a test [a 'testing' person], to everyone who has ever known me.




And yet, i enjoy a great deal of peace in my life.

Annie Anthrax wrote on Oct 15^th, 2013 at 4:37pm:




Do you believe Salem was all the poorer for not having Yadda there to help clean up the witches ... ?

Is our personal conscience really personal, or just forgotten internalised social mores?

Jaqs wrote on Oct 15^th, 2013 at 5:36pm:


It also depends on how we're brought up. Two children from one family can be completely different, but generally if our parents are/were morally honest - we grow up to be the same.

The word sin is a bit heavy though. Maybe immorality or murder can be classified as a sin and a guilty conscience could apply to being knowingly neglectful, irresponsible or not doing your best - all human faults.

I would like to think that we, as individuals, have developed enough personal character to differentiate between what we consider 'conscience' and learned rules/acceptances of personal behaviour.

I'm rather fond of the old Christian more - 'Do unto others ... '. On a personal note, it's interpreted as a message not to do to others what you would not have them do to you. Consequently, it rather neatly ties with the old English code of conduct - behave like a gentleman or you run the risk of having your head shot off.

In reality, what is needed is a more 'humanist' approach in one's dealing with others. It is only the twisted and obscene that enjoy the witnessing of suffering - even of animals, let alone humans.

As cultures, nations, parents and individuals - we have become inured to the sight of suffering, to the sight of the starving, to the pleas of the disadvantaged, the maimed victims of terrorism in whatever cloak it hides. This is the result of the media's saturation of our society and the way it shapes public opinion on many issues, particularly with regard to people who are not connected to us as individuals.

More importantly, the very social construct that requires us to be neighbourly has dislocated us from our neighbours by it's own evolution - and that same evolution varies from society to society.

Man is wolf to man - it has ever been so.

You can, of course, live your life honourably, perhaps even according to your conscience as well - you may have a happy life - but more likely not a successful one.

One's conscience is an entirely arbitrary thing and may not necessarily be good for one. To be sure, there are plenty abroad who possess little or no conscience.

Should we become victims of our own good nature?

You may classify all humankind as Homo Sapiens - but we ain't all the same!

And that's the problem.

Lionel Edriess wrote on Oct 15^th, 2013 at 9:14pm:



Lionel,

I am not having a go at you, but just as a hypothetical scenario;

Suppose, that you were a public figure in Australia, and that YOU had the authority and the power, to stop the export of live sheep, from Australian shores.

you became aware of how live sheep, transported to places like the Gulf states and Pakistan and Egypt have been in the past, and are likely to continue to be treated in the future, on arrival in those places.

Now there is a lot of responsibility resting upon your shoulders.



As a person of conscience, and as a person, in the public eye, who actually has the authority to stop the export of live sheep, from Australian shores, what would you do ?

Would you use your lawful authority to stop the export of live sheep, from Australia, to such places ?

And why [i.e. how would you publicly account for, or justify, your decision. ...assuming that you did.] ?i



Quote:



And that is, the problem.

p.s.
i despise modern humanism [....they always seek to avoid real world accountability for the consequences of their poor choices, imo].








Karl Popper



Thomas Mann