Australian Politics Forum - Discussions on the question of personal conscienc

Annie Anthrax Gold Member Offline Posts: 7062 Gender:	Re: Discussions on the question of personal conscienc Reply #45 - Oct 20^th, 2013 at 4:34pm War, child abuse, murder, self harm.
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Annie Anthrax Gold Member Offline Posts: 7062 Gender:	Re: Discussions on the question of personal conscienc Reply #46 - Oct 20^th, 2013 at 4:38pm In regards to sin: Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing, there is a field. I'll meet you there. -Rumi C13th
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Lord Herbert

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Re: Discussions on the question of personal conscienc
Reply #47 - Oct 20^th, 2013 at 5:11pm

Annie Anthrax wrote on Oct 20^th, 2013 at 4:34pm:

War, child abuse, murder, self harm.

War: 1. Expanding lebensraum for ones progeny. 2. Defending one's 'turf' against invaders who have no investment in seeing your progeny survive and prosper.

Child Abuse: Often there's a step-father involved. Lions do the same thing, only they outright kill the cubs born of the previous male. It's clearing the way for ones own genetic offspring.

Murder: Often undertaken to advantage oneself, and increases the material security of ones family against poverty and want.

Self harm: Attention-seeking behaviour aimed at eliminating oneself as breeding stock from Darwinian Natural Selection.

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Lord Herbert Gold Member Offline Posts: 34441 Gender:	Re: Discussions on the question of personal conscienc Reply #48 - Oct 20^th, 2013 at 5:13pm Annie Anthrax wrote on Oct 20^th, 2013 at 4:38pm: In regards to sin: Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing, there is a field. I'll meet you there. -Rumi C13th No one lives in a moral vacuum as this wanker is suggesting.
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Chimp_Logic

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Re: Discussions on the question of personal conscienc
Reply #49 - Oct 20^th, 2013 at 5:28pm

Lord Herbert wrote on Oct 20^th, 2013 at 5:13pm:

Annie Anthrax wrote on Oct 20^th, 2013 at 4:38pm:

In regards to sin:

Out beyond ideas
of wrongdoing and rightdoing,
there is a field.
I'll meet you there.
-Rumi C13th

No one lives in a moral vacuum as this wanker is suggesting.

although there are many who live in an immoral vacuum

I am sure that you can think of such a person Herbert

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Dr Sircus cures cancer with Baking Soda and Magnesium - Jethro the MENTAL GIANT & his flute madness

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Postmodern Trendoid

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Re: Discussions on the question of personal conscienc
Reply #50 - Oct 20^th, 2013 at 10:56pm

Lord Herbert wrote on Oct 20^th, 2013 at 5:11pm:

Annie Anthrax wrote on Oct 20^th, 2013 at 4:34pm:

War, child abuse, murder, self harm.

War: 1. Expanding lebensraum for ones progeny. 2. Defending one's 'turf' against invaders who have no investment in seeing your progeny survive and prosper.

Child Abuse: Often there's a step-father involved. Lions do the same thing, only they outright kill the cubs born of the previous male. It's clearing the way for ones own genetic offspring.

Murder: Often undertaken to advantage oneself, and increases the material security of ones family against poverty and want.

Self harm: Attention-seeking behaviour aimed at eliminating oneself as breeding stock from Darwinian Natural Selection.

They may be true in some circumstances, but I think applying blanket intentions is a bit reductive.
The last one particularly appears to be anti-Darwin. It's more like Freud's Thanatos.

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Only the boat people can save us from our own evil.

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Lord Herbert

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Re: Discussions on the question of personal conscienc
Reply #51 - Oct 21^st, 2013 at 5:01am

Postmodern Trendoid wrote on Jan 1^st, 1970 at 10:00am:

1382273808]Lord Herbert wrote on Oct 20^th, 2013 at 5:11pm:

Self harm: Attention-seeking behaviour aimed at eliminating oneself as breeding stock from Darwinian Natural Selection.

The last one particularly appears to be anti-Darwin.

Au contraire.

Self-harm tells your tribe that you are a liability where the security of the group's offspring are concerned, and therefore you are either killed or chased out of the tribe's territorial stamping ground.

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Soren

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Re: Discussions on the question of personal conscienc
Reply #52 - Oct 21^st, 2013 at 7:52am

Annie Anthrax wrote on Oct 18^th, 2013 at 3:46pm:

Soren wrote on Oct 17^th, 2013 at 8:34pm:

Annie Anthrax wrote on Oct 17^th, 2013 at 3:33pm:

Postmodern Trendoid wrote on Oct 16^th, 2013 at 11:31am:

Lionel Edriess wrote on Oct 15^th, 2013 at 9:14pm:

I would like to think that we, as individuals, have developed enough personal character to differentiate between what we consider 'conscience' and learned rules/acceptances of personal behaviour.

So the part of us that isn't learned behaviour is a biological inheritance?

Biological inheritance of the learned behaviour of our ancestors, perhaps, through the process of evolution.

Are you saying this or is this really your ancestor speaking through evolution?

I think evolution is hugely overestimated and overstated when it comes to our actual, personal lives (the only one we actually know and inhabit consciously). Nobody lives their personal lives along evolutionary lines, except total psycho- and sociopaths.

Religion, with all its pitfalls, is much more on a human scale, like a Renaissance Italian piazza, than evolution and all its grand boulevards ofimpersonal, concrete brutalism.
We cannot lead evolutionary lives.

Do you believe that there is no biological motivation for behaviour?

I think the biological motivation of behaviour (instinct) is negligible or mostly peripheral.
We do not build cities, libraries, theatres, schools for biological motivations, we do not converse, read and write and make decisions at work and at home for biological motivations.
Animals have largely biological motivations because they do not and cannot have any other.

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muso

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Re: Discussions on the question of personal conscienc
Reply #53 - Oct 21^st, 2013 at 8:16am

Annie Anthrax wrote on Oct 20^th, 2013 at 4:34pm:

War, child abuse, murder, self harm.

Mass murder? Take the recent government shutdown in the US. This had the potntial to wipe trillions of dollars off stocks. Whenever that happens, far down the tree of consequences, people die en masse as a result.

Harm minimisation has become complex in this modern world. In the past it was easier - Thou shalt not kill.

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Yadda

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Re: Discussions on the question of personal conscienc
Reply #54 - Oct 23^rd, 2013 at 2:35am

muso wrote on Oct 21^st, 2013 at 8:16am:

Annie Anthrax wrote on Oct 20^th, 2013 at 4:34pm:

War, child abuse, murder, self harm.

Mass murder? Take the recent government shutdown in the US. This had the potntial to wipe trillions of dollars off stocks. Whenever that happens, far down the tree of consequences, people die en masse as a result.

Harm minimisation has become complex in this modern world.

In the past it was easier - Thou shalt not kill.

We [human beings] have always decided [chosen] to make this life [and our choices, within it] complex, imo, in an effort to maximise our advantage [while also seeking to minimise bad consequences, from our decisions].

Trying to live a moral life, is always going to be difficult.

And trying to live a moral life, is never going to be a zero sum game, imo.

And intentionally so, imo. [i.e. from my own theological perspective, our human existences and circumstances, provide an environment 'rich with opportunities' for us to make 'poor' life choices!]

'We're only human, we're supposed to make mistakes.'

- - Billy Joel

If a God exists, and if a God created us;
But, designed our circumstances [here] to be so [morally] challenging for us [that we are always 'destined' to 'fail'], then does that make our creator a callous being/entity ?

I can see how it would appear so, purely from our ['materialistic'/self interested] human perspective.

But i don't bring that challenge or accusation [of being a callous being/entity] to my God [my creator].

I firmly believe that my God [my creator] has my own best interests at heart [...as well as his own!!].

Growth can often be challenging and painful.

And, do you yourself [in your human life], seek to retain what is precious ?

And what do you yourself [in your human life], do with what you judge to be worthless ?

Matthew 10:31
Fear ye not therefore, ye are of more value than many sparrows.

Luke 11:13
.....how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?

Religion: A 21stC anachronism or mans salvation?
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1303676733/207#207
Quote:

"What if 'this life' is a fixed game?

i.e.
What if we can't 'win',
...on purpose!"

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Chimp_Logic Gold Member Offline πολιτικός Posts: 4826 Mawson Base Gender:	Re: Discussions on the question of personal conscienc Reply #55 - Oct 23^rd, 2013 at 11:56am RACIST CITY
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muso Gold Member Offline Posts: 13151 Gladstone, Queensland Gender:	Re: Discussions on the question of personal conscienc Reply #56 - Oct 24^th, 2013 at 9:59pm You'll have to explain yourself better Chimp.
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Frank

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Re: Discussions on the question of personal conscienc
Reply #57 - Oct 6^th, 2025 at 4:54pm

The American philosopher John Searle, who has died aged 93, first made his name in philosophy of language, then in philosophy of mind, and finally in “philosophy of society”.

His overall question, posed in Making the Social World (2010), was: “How is it possible in a universe consisting entirely of physical particles in fields of force that there can be such things as consciousness, intentionality [the “aboutness” of thinking], free will, language, society, ethics, aesthetics and political reality.”
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/oct/05/john-searle-obituary

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Estragon: I can’t go on like this.
Vladimir: That’s what you think.

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