Australian Politics Forum - Who is really behind the denialists?

muso

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Who is really behind the denialists?
Sep 8^th, 2013 at 9:20am

So many people make the assumption that it's "Big Oil" and "Big Coal", and there were of course links to Exxon funding "Think Tanks" such as the Heartland Institute, the Cato Institute and the George C. Marshall Institute. From what I've read, that funding seems to have levelled off recently.

However if you look at the public Climate Change policies of the major Oil and coal corporations, they all endorse the prevailing science and reflect a commtiment to reduce carbon emissions.

Some examples:

The Australian Coal Association:

http://www.australiancoal.com.au/climate-change-a-technology.html

Quote:

Climate Change & Technology

It will be virtually impossible to limit global temperature increases to two degrees without carbon capture and storage technology.

In 2006 the Australian Coal Association established the COAL21 Fund, with a commitment to raise $1 billion over ten years to support the development of low emission technologies for coal.

BP Global
http://www.bp.com/en/global/corporate/sustainability/the-energy-future/climate-c...

Quote:

Addressing the global challenge of climate change will require the efforts of governments, industry and individuals
The situation

According to the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), warming of the climate system is happening, and it is in large part the result of an increase in greenhouse gas emissions and their concentrations in the atmosphere. The IPCC believes that warming of the climate is likely to lead to extreme weather events becoming more frequent and unpredictable. Results from models assessed by the IPCC suggest that to stand a reasonable chance of limiting warming to no more than 2°C, global carbon dioxide (CO2) emissions need to peak before 2020 and be cut by between 50-85% by 2050.

Shell Global

http://www.shell.com/global/environment-society/environment/climate-change.html
Quote:

To manage CO2, governments and industry must work together. Government action is needed and we support an international framework that puts a price on CO2, encouraging the use of all CO2-reducing technologies. We believe the best way Shell can help secure a sustainable energy future is by focusing on four main areas: natural gas, biofuels, carbon capture and storage, and energy efficiency.

even Exxon- Mobil:

http://www.exxonmobil.com.au/Corporate/safety_climate.aspx

In fact I doubt if you can find a major Coal or Oil Corporation that publically denies that CO2 emissions from fossil fuel consumption is leading to global warming.

About 7 years ago, I watched a presentation by a group of Environmental Engineers talking about climate change. It was basic simplistic stuff, but the surprise was that they all worked for a coal company, and the presentation itself was funded by a coal corporation, including the coffee and sandwiches afterwards. Of course they stuck to the generally accepted science.

Any thoughts?

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« Last Edit: Sep 8^th, 2013 at 9:27am by muso »

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Ajax

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Re: Who is really behind the denialists?
Reply #1 - Sep 8^th, 2013 at 1:14pm

Dude bankers have their fingers in all the pies...!!

For years now I've been thinking what the hell did the bankers do with the billions of tax payer dollars they where given back in 2008....!!!

They certainly didn't lend it to the people or pump it back into the economy...??!!

They went out and bought enough shares in all the other major companies to have a firm grip on what goes on in them.

That's why major oil & coal are right behind the AGW religion.

Good work....!!!

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1. There has never been a more serious assault on our standard of living than Anthropogenic Global Warming..Ajax
2. "One hour of freedom is worth more than 40 years of slavery & prison" Regas Feraeos

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muso

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Re: Who is really behind the denialists?
Reply #2 - Sep 8^th, 2013 at 1:21pm

Ajax wrote on Sep 8^th, 2013 at 1:14pm:

Dude bankers have their fingers in all the pies...!!

For years now I've been thinking what the hell did the bankers do with the billions of tax payer dollars they where given back in 2008....!!!

They certainly didn't lend it to the people or pump it back into the economy...??!!

They went out and bought enough shares in all the other major companies to have a firm grip on what goes on in them.

That's why major oil & coal are right behind the AGW religion.

Good work....!!!

Well, major shareholders should be detailed in the prospectus. We can easily check you assertion. Will you back up your statements by providing the links?

It's far more likely that major oil corporations pull the strings in governments.

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Ajax

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Re: Who is really behind the denialists?
Reply #3 - Sep 8^th, 2013 at 1:25pm

muso wrote on Sep 8^th, 2013 at 1:21pm:

Ajax wrote on Sep 8^th, 2013 at 1:14pm:

Dude bankers have their fingers in all the pies...!!

For years now I've been thinking what the hell did the bankers do with the billions of tax payer dollars they where given back in 2008....!!!

They certainly didn't lend it to the people or pump it back into the economy...??!!

They went out and bought enough shares in all the other major companies to have a firm grip on what goes on in them.

That's why major oil & coal are right behind the AGW religion.

Good work....!!!

Well, major shareholders should be detailed in the prospectus. We can easily check you assertion. Will you back up your statements by providing the links?

For sure they wouldn't hide it there is no need.

Quote:

It's far more likely that major oil corporations pull the strings in governments.

Why would major oil and coal corporation want the government to introduce a carbon tax ETS system....???

Doesn't make sense.........???????

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1. There has never been a more serious assault on our standard of living than Anthropogenic Global Warming..Ajax
2. "One hour of freedom is worth more than 40 years of slavery & prison" Regas Feraeos

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muso Gold Member Offline Posts: 13151 Gladstone, Queensland Gender:	Re: Who is really behind the denialists? Reply #4 - Sep 8^th, 2013 at 1:38pm Ajax wrote on Sep 8^th, 2013 at 1:25pm: For sure they wouldn't hide it there is no need. Well, good luck with proving your theory. Here is Exxon-Mobil's Annual Report for 2012 for starters. Let me know how you go. http://www.exxonmobil.com.au/Corporate/Files/news_pub_sar-2012.pdf
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Ajax

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Re: Who is really behind the denialists?
Reply #5 - Sep 8^th, 2013 at 1:45pm

muso wrote on Sep 8^th, 2013 at 1:38pm:

Ajax wrote on Sep 8^th, 2013 at 1:25pm:

For sure they wouldn't hide it there is no need.

Well, good luck with proving your theory. Here is Exxon-Mobil's Annual Report for 2012 for starters. Let me know how you go.

http://www.exxonmobil.com.au/Corporate/Files/news_pub_sar-2012.pdf

Have a look here, how many banks can you spot..????

http://stockzoa.com/ticker/xom/

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1. There has never been a more serious assault on our standard of living than Anthropogenic Global Warming..Ajax
2. "One hour of freedom is worth more than 40 years of slavery & prison" Regas Feraeos

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muso

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Re: Who is really behind the denialists?
Reply #6 - Sep 8^th, 2013 at 1:56pm

Ajax wrote on Sep 8^th, 2013 at 1:45pm:

muso wrote on Sep 8^th, 2013 at 1:38pm:

Ajax wrote on Sep 8^th, 2013 at 1:25pm:

For sure they wouldn't hide it there is no need.

Well, good luck with proving your theory. Here is Exxon-Mobil's Annual Report for 2012 for starters. Let me know how you go.

http://www.exxonmobil.com.au/Corporate/Files/news_pub_sar-2012.pdf

Have a look here, how many banks can you spot..????

http://stockzoa.com/ticker/xom/

THey are not exactly major shareholders. Most are investment corporations holding portfolio type investments. I think you'll find that Exxon-Mobil maintains a 50% equity. What's the biggest bank shareholding on that list? Would that be enough to get a board member?

Take a look at the board members. Any of them from banks? No?

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Ajax

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Re: Who is really behind the denialists?
Reply #7 - Sep 8^th, 2013 at 2:05pm

muso wrote on Sep 8^th, 2013 at 1:56pm:

Ajax wrote on Sep 8^th, 2013 at 1:45pm:

muso wrote on Sep 8^th, 2013 at 1:38pm:

Ajax wrote on Sep 8^th, 2013 at 1:25pm:

For sure they wouldn't hide it there is no need.

Well, good luck with proving your theory. Here is Exxon-Mobil's Annual Report for 2012 for starters. Let me know how you go.

http://www.exxonmobil.com.au/Corporate/Files/news_pub_sar-2012.pdf

Have a look here, how many banks can you spot..????

http://stockzoa.com/ticker/xom/

THey are not exactly major shareholders. Most are investment corporations holding portfolio type investments. I think you'll find that Exxon-Mobil maintains a 50% equity. What's the biggest bank shareholding on that list? Would that be enough to get a board member?

Take a look at the board members. Any of them from banks? No?

Read this dude....!!!
http://wallstreetonparade.com/2013/07/should-wall-street-banks-own-hoard-oil-and...

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1. There has never been a more serious assault on our standard of living than Anthropogenic Global Warming..Ajax
2. "One hour of freedom is worth more than 40 years of slavery & prison" Regas Feraeos

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muso

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Re: Who is really behind the denialists?
Reply #8 - Sep 8^th, 2013 at 2:49pm

Ajax,

This is getting hilarious. You love your conspiracy theories don't you? You even resort to Left Wing websites for them Grin

The equity of Exxon-Mobil is $165.8 Billion, which stands at just over 50% of controlling interests. That's standard practice. The largest Shareholder on that list was Vanguard Holdings, and it's portfolio investments. It was $22 Billion. You'll find that all the major investors are in the same boat.

Do you understand what a portfolio investment is?

Quote:

A portfolio investment is a passive investment in securities, none which entails in active management or control of the securities' issued by the investor. Portfolio investment is an investment made by an investor who is not particularly interested in involvement in the management of a company.

For example, you might have Superannuation that includes Energy in its portfolio. Securities are issued by companies such as Exxon Mobil to large investment corporations, who in turn sell them to other companies.

Why do Exxon-Mobil issue Securities?

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progressiveslol Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 17029	Re: Who is really behind the denialists? Reply #9 - Sep 9^th, 2013 at 7:12am Keeping away from the consipracy theories, although they have merit. It is poor science, fiddling of data, hiding calculation and a need to push people into a corner of 'the science is settled' that is behind the greater skeptisism. Your fraudulant scientists are the cause of your (AGW) pain.
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muso Gold Member Offline Posts: 13151 Gladstone, Queensland Gender:	Re: Who is really behind the denialists? Reply #10 - Sep 9^th, 2013 at 8:23am Boo! Ha you thought I had gone! Run away like you usually do when faced with logic, or dare to face the truth, Progs.
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Ajax

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Re: Who is really behind the denialists?
Reply #11 - Sep 9^th, 2013 at 8:34am

muso wrote on Sep 8^th, 2013 at 2:49pm:

Ajax,

This is getting hilarious. You love your conspiracy theories don't you? You even resort to Left Wing websites for them Grin

The equity of Exxon-Mobil is $165.8 Billion, which stands at just over 50% of controlling interests. That's standard practice. The largest Shareholder on that list was Vanguard Holdings, and it's portfolio investments. It was $22 Billion. You'll find that all the major investors are in the same boat.

Do you understand what a portfolio investment is?

Quote:

A portfolio investment is a passive investment in securities, none which entails in active management or control of the securities' issued by the investor. Portfolio investment is an investment made by an investor who is not particularly interested in involvement in the management of a company.

For example, you might have Superannuation that includes Energy in its portfolio. Securities are issued by companies such as Exxon Mobil to large investment corporations, who in turn sell them to other companies.

Why do Exxon-Mobil issue Securities?

So then in your opinion a left wing website wrote crap which you dismiss with ease.

Bravo this shows us how much attention you pay to scientists on the other side of the fence.

Seriously dude you need to wake from your slumber and realise which world you live in.

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1. There has never been a more serious assault on our standard of living than Anthropogenic Global Warming..Ajax
2. "One hour of freedom is worth more than 40 years of slavery & prison" Regas Feraeos

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muso Gold Member Offline Posts: 13151 Gladstone, Queensland Gender:	Re: Who is really behind the denialists? Reply #12 - Sep 9^th, 2013 at 11:07am Ajax, What other side of the fence?
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progressiveslol Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 17029	Re: Who is really behind the denialists? Reply #13 - Sep 9^th, 2013 at 12:20pm muso wrote on Sep 9^th, 2013 at 8:23am: Boo! Ha you thought I had gone! Run away like you usually do when faced with logic, or dare to face the truth, Progs. Did u go somewhere :-P
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muso Gold Member Offline Posts: 13151 Gladstone, Queensland Gender:	Re: Who is really behind the denialists? Reply #14 - Sep 9^th, 2013 at 7:23pm You've met your match here Progs. Ajax is a Climate science denier and a moon landing denier. I'm not sure if he denies the link between tobacco and cancer though. At least he agrees that the oceans are warming.
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