Australian Politics Forum - Rudd smacked down on Bible verse

longweekend58

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 45675
Gender: male

Re: Rudd smacked down on Bible verse
Reply #60 - Sep 4^th, 2013 at 12:03pm

Verge wrote on Sep 4^th, 2013 at 11:54am:

longweekend58 wrote on Sep 4^th, 2013 at 11:30am:

Quantum wrote on Sep 4^th, 2013 at 11:21am:

longweekend58 wrote on Sep 4^th, 2013 at 11:02am:

I was very disappointed in Rudd because most genuine Christians don't let politics get in the way of their religious beliefs or actions. The parliamentary Christian Fellowship is an example. But for Rudd, everything is about him and his wishes and his promotion. And you are right quantum. His understanding of the Gospel has shown that his understanding of the basic tenet of the Bible is flawed and very poor. I don't think he has the slightest clue.

Yes, he really got this one wrong. I know for a lot of non Christians his answer was good, and that in fine and understandable. If you are not a Christian the bible is surely irrelevant so who cares if his answers fit with it. But I'm sure many Christians picked up on the fact that he essentially took Christ out of Christian in a response to a question as to why Christians can trust him. For someone like him who confesses to be a Christian (plus as a politician in an election week of a nation that has millions of Christians), that was madness. Yes polictians should not let their beliefs get in the way of politics, but as you said, he has let politics get in the way of his own beliefs. Very disappointing.

I think that that is possibly the worst indictment on his character. I've said in the past that Rudd doesn't believe in anything other than himself. Now, I suspect that may in fact be literally true.

But you yourself have used christanity as a reason for opposing same sex marriage. Are you not using your religious beliefs to justify your political position on this matter?

I too have used my christian beliefs in my support of gay marriage.

We all have done it mate, Abbott as well (are we forgetting the abortion issue from when he was health minister).

To pretend otherwise shows how low you will sink to throw some mud.

this post indicates that you have no idea what we are talking about. your examples here are about people having religious and moral positions that they believe in and acting upon them. we are actually saying that Rudd has no beliefs of any kind and that he promotes anything that wil gain him advantage.

Back to top

AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

IP Logged

rabbitoh07

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 2783
Gender: male

Re: Rudd smacked down on Bible verse
Reply #61 - Sep 4^th, 2013 at 12:28pm

Quantum wrote on Sep 4^th, 2013 at 10:25am:

The only person bending the bible is Rudd, and most Christians know that.

The bible is like any other topic; it has a mainstream view, then it has many smaller alternative views. Does every scientist believe in climate change? Does every scientist believe that vaccinations are safe? Does every scientist believe that fluoride in water is good for you? No matter the topic, there will always be someone who has a different opinion. Usually most people hold to the mainstream view that the majority of experts support. However, many people who will believe the experts on other issues will happily dismiss the mainstream when it comes to biblical studies. Several people may spend 50 years doing bible reaserch, trying to understand the historical context and looking at all possible views, yet people will happily dismiss that reaserch by finding a verse through google and saying that their interpretation is as good as anyone else's. Rudd totally missed what Paul was saying, but since Rudd also missed what the gospel is on about in his next sentence that is hardly surprising.

Rudd showed every Christian on Monday that he has not read the bible. He complelty misquoted it, and gave one of the weakess summaries of the gospel ever made. He is clearly trying to walk a line of saying "I'm a Christian" while grabbing votes from the non Christians as well. And isn't that what the real question was about? It had nothing to do with gay marriage, but instead was about Christians in Australia not sure anymore on what he actually believes. He says one thing, but he also says and does another and people are now confused on where he stands. His answer on Monday only highlighted these two sides of Kevin. Until Monday he seemed like a Christian trying to win the non Christian vote. After Q&A he seems like a non Christian trying to keep the Christian vote by simply saying "I'm a committed Christian, I just don't follow Christ or believe the bible". His response would have lost him as many votes as he picked up.

Complete nonsense.

Rudd did not directly "quote" the Bible - he said "the Bible also says that slavery is a natural condition."

Which is perfectly true. THere are many references to slavery in the Bible indicating that it was a perfectly normal condition at the time the Bible was written.

He raised this to show how stupid people are to cherry-pick parts of the Bible and take them literally.

The Bible says in several places that homosexuality is wrong. But true Christians acknowledge that this is not at all consistent with the teachings of Jesus - the dude that Christians are supposed to follow more than anyone.

The Pastor said to Rudd:
"I just believe in what the Bible says and I'm just curious for you, Kevin, if you call yourself a Christian, why don't you believe the words of Jesus in the Bible?"

Weher exactly did Jesus ever say gay marriage was wrong?!?!

What Jesus DID apparently say was:

"Therefore, whatever you want men to do to you, do also to them,"
Matt7:12

It seems like Rudd has a far more Christian attitude than Abbott who forced his party members to vote in favour of discrimination

Back to top

IP Logged

longweekend58

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 45675
Gender: male

Re: Rudd smacked down on Bible verse
Reply #62 - Sep 4^th, 2013 at 12:34pm

rabbitoh07 wrote on Sep 4^th, 2013 at 12:28pm:

Quantum wrote on Sep 4^th, 2013 at 10:25am:

The only person bending the bible is Rudd, and most Christians know that.

The bible is like any other topic; it has a mainstream view, then it has many smaller alternative views. Does every scientist believe in climate change? Does every scientist believe that vaccinations are safe? Does every scientist believe that fluoride in water is good for you? No matter the topic, there will always be someone who has a different opinion. Usually most people hold to the mainstream view that the majority of experts support. However, many people who will believe the experts on other issues will happily dismiss the mainstream when it comes to biblical studies. Several people may spend 50 years doing bible reaserch, trying to understand the historical context and looking at all possible views, yet people will happily dismiss that reaserch by finding a verse through google and saying that their interpretation is as good as anyone else's. Rudd totally missed what Paul was saying, but since Rudd also missed what the gospel is on about in his next sentence that is hardly surprising.

Rudd showed every Christian on Monday that he has not read the bible. He complelty misquoted it, and gave one of the weakess summaries of the gospel ever made. He is clearly trying to walk a line of saying "I'm a Christian" while grabbing votes from the non Christians as well. And isn't that what the real question was about? It had nothing to do with gay marriage, but instead was about Christians in Australia not sure anymore on what he actually believes. He says one thing, but he also says and does another and people are now confused on where he stands. His answer on Monday only highlighted these two sides of Kevin. Until Monday he seemed like a Christian trying to win the non Christian vote. After Q&A he seems like a non Christian trying to keep the Christian vote by simply saying "I'm a committed Christian, I just don't follow Christ or believe the bible". His response would have lost him as many votes as he picked up.

Complete nonsense.

Rudd did not directly "quote" the Bible - he said "the Bible also says that slavery is a natural condition."

Which is perfectly true. THere are many references to slavery in the Bible indicating that it was a perfectly normal condition at the time the Bible was written.

He raised this to show how stupid people are to cherry-pick parts of the Bible and take them literally.

The Bible says in several places that homosexuality is wrong. But true Christians acknowledge that this is not at all consistent with the teachings of Jesus - the dude that Christians are supposed to follow more than anyone.

The Pastor said to Rudd:
"I just believe in what the Bible says and I'm just curious for you, Kevin, if you call yourself a Christian, why don't you believe the words of Jesus in the Bible?"

Weher exactly did Jesus ever say gay marriage was wrong?!?!

What Jesus DID apparently say was:

"Therefore, whatever you want men to do to you, do also to them,"
Matt7:12

It seems like Rudd has a far more Christian attitude than Abbott who forced his party members to vote in favour of discrimination

Jesus said that He absolutely supported the law and the Prophets which both unequivocally condemned homosexuality. To claim that Jesus was pro-gay is absurd. Any student of the bible would conclude the exact opposite. and obviously by extension He would oppose gay marriage.

Back to top

AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

IP Logged

longweekend58

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 45675
Gender: male

Re: Rudd smacked down on Bible verse
Reply #63 - Sep 4^th, 2013 at 12:36pm

rabbitoh07 wrote on Sep 4^th, 2013 at 12:28pm:

Quantum wrote on Sep 4^th, 2013 at 10:25am:

The only person bending the bible is Rudd, and most Christians know that.

The bible is like any other topic; it has a mainstream view, then it has many smaller alternative views. Does every scientist believe in climate change? Does every scientist believe that vaccinations are safe? Does every scientist believe that fluoride in water is good for you? No matter the topic, there will always be someone who has a different opinion. Usually most people hold to the mainstream view that the majority of experts support. However, many people who will believe the experts on other issues will happily dismiss the mainstream when it comes to biblical studies. Several people may spend 50 years doing bible reaserch, trying to understand the historical context and looking at all possible views, yet people will happily dismiss that reaserch by finding a verse through google and saying that their interpretation is as good as anyone else's. Rudd totally missed what Paul was saying, but since Rudd also missed what the gospel is on about in his next sentence that is hardly surprising.

Rudd showed every Christian on Monday that he has not read the bible. He complelty misquoted it, and gave one of the weakess summaries of the gospel ever made. He is clearly trying to walk a line of saying "I'm a Christian" while grabbing votes from the non Christians as well. And isn't that what the real question was about? It had nothing to do with gay marriage, but instead was about Christians in Australia not sure anymore on what he actually believes. He says one thing, but he also says and does another and people are now confused on where he stands. His answer on Monday only highlighted these two sides of Kevin. Until Monday he seemed like a Christian trying to win the non Christian vote. After Q&A he seems like a non Christian trying to keep the Christian vote by simply saying "I'm a committed Christian, I just don't follow Christ or believe the bible". His response would have lost him as many votes as he picked up.

Complete nonsense.

Rudd did not directly "quote" the Bible - he said "the Bible also says that slavery is a natural condition."

Which is perfectly true. THere are many references to slavery in the Bible indicating that it was a perfectly normal condition at the time the Bible was written.

He raised this to show how stupid people are to cherry-pick parts of the Bible and take them literally.

The Bible says in several places that homosexuality is wrong. But true Christians acknowledge that this is not at all consistent with the teachings of Jesus - the dude that Christians are supposed to follow more than anyone.

The Pastor said to Rudd:
"I just believe in what the Bible says and I'm just curious for you, Kevin, if you call yourself a Christian, why don't you believe the words of Jesus in the Bible?"

Weher exactly did Jesus ever say gay marriage was wrong?!?!

What Jesus DID apparently say was:

"Therefore, whatever you want men to do to you, do also to them,"
Matt7:12

It seems like Rudd has a far more Christian attitude than Abbott who forced his party members to vote in favour of discrimination

ah... the old "the Bible says this but I think differently...' argument. Its not a sound Christian position to simply choose what you want and ignore the rest as Rudd the Cynic does.

Back to top

AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

IP Logged

Verge

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 6329
Gender: male

Re: Rudd smacked down on Bible verse
Reply #64 - Sep 4^th, 2013 at 12:54pm

longweekend58 wrote on Sep 4^th, 2013 at 12:03pm:

Verge wrote on Sep 4^th, 2013 at 11:54am:

longweekend58 wrote on Sep 4^th, 2013 at 11:30am:

Quantum wrote on Sep 4^th, 2013 at 11:21am:

longweekend58 wrote on Sep 4^th, 2013 at 11:02am:

I was very disappointed in Rudd because most genuine Christians don't let politics get in the way of their religious beliefs or actions. The parliamentary Christian Fellowship is an example. But for Rudd, everything is about him and his wishes and his promotion. And you are right quantum. His understanding of the Gospel has shown that his understanding of the basic tenet of the Bible is flawed and very poor. I don't think he has the slightest clue.

Yes, he really got this one wrong. I know for a lot of non Christians his answer was good, and that in fine and understandable. If you are not a Christian the bible is surely irrelevant so who cares if his answers fit with it. But I'm sure many Christians picked up on the fact that he essentially took Christ out of Christian in a response to a question as to why Christians can trust him. For someone like him who confesses to be a Christian (plus as a politician in an election week of a nation that has millions of Christians), that was madness. Yes polictians should not let their beliefs get in the way of politics, but as you said, he has let politics get in the way of his own beliefs. Very disappointing.

I think that that is possibly the worst indictment on his character. I've said in the past that Rudd doesn't believe in anything other than himself. Now, I suspect that may in fact be literally true.

But you yourself have used christanity as a reason for opposing same sex marriage. Are you not using your religious beliefs to justify your political position on this matter?

I too have used my christian beliefs in my support of gay marriage.

We all have done it mate, Abbott as well (are we forgetting the abortion issue from when he was health minister).

To pretend otherwise shows how low you will sink to throw some mud.

this post indicates that you have no idea what we are talking about. your examples here are about people having religious and moral positions that they believe in and acting upon them. we are actually saying that Rudd has no beliefs of any kind and that he promotes anything that wil gain him advantage.

Explain to me again why Rudd doesnt believe in anything when his position was very clear?

Because you dont believe his motives?

This is nothing more than a personal attack on Rudd. You dont like the guy, and dont trust him. Thats fine, but to claim that his position means nothing because he only believes in himself is laughable. Talk about a stupid position for you to take.

You are playing the man, and not the ball. You are letting your obvious distain and dislike for a man cloud your judgement.

Back to top

And why not, if you will permit me; why shouldn’t I, if you will permit me; spend my first week as prime minister, should that happen, on this, on your, country - Abbott with the Garma People Aug 13

IP Logged

Verge

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 6329
Gender: male

Re: Rudd smacked down on Bible verse
Reply #65 - Sep 4^th, 2013 at 12:56pm

longweekend58 wrote on Sep 4^th, 2013 at 12:34pm:

rabbitoh07 wrote on Sep 4^th, 2013 at 12:28pm:

Quantum wrote on Sep 4^th, 2013 at 10:25am:

The only person bending the bible is Rudd, and most Christians know that.

The bible is like any other topic; it has a mainstream view, then it has many smaller alternative views. Does every scientist believe in climate change? Does every scientist believe that vaccinations are safe? Does every scientist believe that fluoride in water is good for you? No matter the topic, there will always be someone who has a different opinion. Usually most people hold to the mainstream view that the majority of experts support. However, many people who will believe the experts on other issues will happily dismiss the mainstream when it comes to biblical studies. Several people may spend 50 years doing bible reaserch, trying to understand the historical context and looking at all possible views, yet people will happily dismiss that reaserch by finding a verse through google and saying that their interpretation is as good as anyone else's. Rudd totally missed what Paul was saying, but since Rudd also missed what the gospel is on about in his next sentence that is hardly surprising.

Rudd showed every Christian on Monday that he has not read the bible. He complelty misquoted it, and gave one of the weakess summaries of the gospel ever made. He is clearly trying to walk a line of saying "I'm a Christian" while grabbing votes from the non Christians as well. And isn't that what the real question was about? It had nothing to do with gay marriage, but instead was about Christians in Australia not sure anymore on what he actually believes. He says one thing, but he also says and does another and people are now confused on where he stands. His answer on Monday only highlighted these two sides of Kevin. Until Monday he seemed like a Christian trying to win the non Christian vote. After Q&A he seems like a non Christian trying to keep the Christian vote by simply saying "I'm a committed Christian, I just don't follow Christ or believe the bible". His response would have lost him as many votes as he picked up.

Complete nonsense.

Rudd did not directly "quote" the Bible - he said "the Bible also says that slavery is a natural condition."

Which is perfectly true. THere are many references to slavery in the Bible indicating that it was a perfectly normal condition at the time the Bible was written.

He raised this to show how stupid people are to cherry-pick parts of the Bible and take them literally.

The Bible says in several places that homosexuality is wrong. But true Christians acknowledge that this is not at all consistent with the teachings of Jesus - the dude that Christians are supposed to follow more than anyone.

The Pastor said to Rudd:
"I just believe in what the Bible says and I'm just curious for you, Kevin, if you call yourself a Christian, why don't you believe the words of Jesus in the Bible?"

Weher exactly did Jesus ever say gay marriage was wrong?!?!

What Jesus DID apparently say was:

"Therefore, whatever you want men to do to you, do also to them,"
Matt7:12

It seems like Rudd has a far more Christian attitude than Abbott who forced his party members to vote in favour of discrimination

Jesus said that He absolutely supported the law and the Prophets which both unequivocally condemned homosexuality. To claim that Jesus was pro-gay is absurd. Any student of the bible would conclude the exact opposite. and obviously by extension He would oppose gay marriage.

Do this mean Jesus believed you cant cut your hair, wear clothing of different materials, put cattle of different breeds in the same paddock and people can be put to death.

There is no quote in the bible where Jesus Christ opposes homosexuality.

Actually the quotes from Jesus were about bringing people together.

Back to top

And why not, if you will permit me; why shouldn’t I, if you will permit me; spend my first week as prime minister, should that happen, on this, on your, country - Abbott with the Garma People Aug 13

IP Logged

viewpoint

Gold Member

Offline

A joke is a very serious
thing. [Winston]

Posts: 2209
Gender: male

Re: Rudd smacked down on Bible verse
Reply #66 - Sep 4^th, 2013 at 12:57pm

Quote:

I was very disappointed in Rudd because most genuine Christians don't let politics get in the way of their religious beliefs or actions. The parliamentary Christian Fellowship is an example. But for Rudd, everything is about him and his wishes and his promotion. And you are right quantum. His understanding of the Gospel has shown that his understanding of the basic tenet of the Bible is flawed and very poor. I don't think he has the slightest clue.

Yes, although not particularly a religious person, I agree with you 100%. KRUDD's response to the pastor was merely to placate the audience into believing he understood what he was talking about and therefore tried to belittle the pastor with that stupid response, then proceeded to question him and request an answer. I thought he was supposed to be answering questions. He's a hypocrite, but anybody with half a brain is well aware of that.

I wholeheartedly disagree with same sex marriage, in fact I object to homosexuality completely, but as long as they keep the smack away from me I tolerate them. I am a Christian.

KRUDD knows F/A about religion and knows the same about The Bible, so any crap he spat out was pure me, me, me!

Back to top

Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.
- Sir Winston Churchill

IP Logged

longweekend58

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 45675
Gender: male

Re: Rudd smacked down on Bible verse
Reply #67 - Sep 4^th, 2013 at 1:00pm

Verge wrote on Sep 4^th, 2013 at 12:54pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Sep 4^th, 2013 at 12:03pm:

Verge wrote on Sep 4^th, 2013 at 11:54am:

longweekend58 wrote on Sep 4^th, 2013 at 11:30am:

Quantum wrote on Sep 4^th, 2013 at 11:21am:

longweekend58 wrote on Sep 4^th, 2013 at 11:02am:

I was very disappointed in Rudd because most genuine Christians don't let politics get in the way of their religious beliefs or actions. The parliamentary Christian Fellowship is an example. But for Rudd, everything is about him and his wishes and his promotion. And you are right quantum. His understanding of the Gospel has shown that his understanding of the basic tenet of the Bible is flawed and very poor. I don't think he has the slightest clue.

Yes, he really got this one wrong. I know for a lot of non Christians his answer was good, and that in fine and understandable. If you are not a Christian the bible is surely irrelevant so who cares if his answers fit with it. But I'm sure many Christians picked up on the fact that he essentially took Christ out of Christian in a response to a question as to why Christians can trust him. For someone like him who confesses to be a Christian (plus as a politician in an election week of a nation that has millions of Christians), that was madness. Yes polictians should not let their beliefs get in the way of politics, but as you said, he has let politics get in the way of his own beliefs. Very disappointing.

I think that that is possibly the worst indictment on his character. I've said in the past that Rudd doesn't believe in anything other than himself. Now, I suspect that may in fact be literally true.

But you yourself have used christanity as a reason for opposing same sex marriage. Are you not using your religious beliefs to justify your political position on this matter?

I too have used my christian beliefs in my support of gay marriage.

We all have done it mate, Abbott as well (are we forgetting the abortion issue from when he was health minister).

To pretend otherwise shows how low you will sink to throw some mud.

this post indicates that you have no idea what we are talking about. your examples here are about people having religious and moral positions that they believe in and acting upon them. we are actually saying that Rudd has no beliefs of any kind and that he promotes anything that wil gain him advantage.

Explain to me again why Rudd doesnt believe in anything when his position was very clear?

Because you dont believe his motives?

This is nothing more than a personal attack on Rudd. You dont like the guy, and dont trust him. Thats fine, but to claim that his position means nothing because he only believes in himself is laughable. Talk about a stupid position for you to take.

You are playing the man, and not the ball. You are letting your obvious distain and dislike for a man cloud your judgement.

his position on boat people is the opposite of his previous position. His position on gay marriage is the opposite of what it used to be. and on and on it goes. But this is a BIBLICAL question. Rudd doesn't get the option as a Christian to choosing what he does and doesn't agree with in the Bible. But you aren't listening to the crux of what Quantum and I are saying. It is disappointingly obvious that Rudd doesn't really know what the Bibles position on anything is - or if he does, he doesn't care. He seems to have no idea that the Gospel is about Christ - not warm fuzzy feelings. I am deeply disturbed that Rudd has chosen to sideline his Christian beliefs (assuming he has any) to adopt a policy that he things will gain him some votes. The man believes in NOTHING other than himself. Could you find a single policy or issue on which he has been dogmatically clear and unmoving?

Back to top

AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

IP Logged

longweekend58

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 45675
Gender: male

Re: Rudd smacked down on Bible verse
Reply #68 - Sep 4^th, 2013 at 1:02pm

viewpoint wrote on Sep 4^th, 2013 at 12:57pm:

Quote:

I was very disappointed in Rudd because most genuine Christians don't let politics get in the way of their religious beliefs or actions. The parliamentary Christian Fellowship is an example. But for Rudd, everything is about him and his wishes and his promotion. And you are right quantum. His understanding of the Gospel has shown that his understanding of the basic tenet of the Bible is flawed and very poor. I don't think he has the slightest clue.

Yes, although not particularly a religious person, I agree with you 100%. KRUDD's response to the pastor was merely to placate the audience into believing he understood what he was talking about and therefore tried to belittle the pastor with that stupid response, then proceeded to question him and request an answer. I thought he was supposed to be answering questions. He's a hypocrite, but anybody with half a brain is well aware of that.

I wholeheartedly disagree with same sex marriage, in fact I object to homosexuality completely, but as long as they keep the smack away from me I tolerate them. I am a Christian.

KRUDD knows F/A about religion and knows the same about The Bible, so any crap he spat out was pure me, me, me!

that is the unfortunate conclusion.

Back to top

AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

IP Logged

Bobby. Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 111572 Melbourne Gender:	Re: Rudd smacked down on Bible verse Reply #69 - Sep 4^th, 2013 at 1:02pm Homos have hijacked the Greens & now the Labor party. Only a vote for Tony can stop them.
Back to top	IP Logged

Dsmithy70

Gold Member

Offline

ire futuis vobismetipsis

Posts: 13147
Newy
Gender: male

Re: Rudd smacked down on Bible verse
Reply #70 - Sep 4^th, 2013 at 1:05pm

The funniest thing is you so called religious types saying marriage has anything to do with the Modern Christian church.

Other than deciding it was a good lurk for fleecing more cash out of the citzenery it has nothing to do with religion.

Marriage was around long before any of the modern religion & has been used as a peach maker between tribes/ wealth building of families etc etc.

In fact the marriage act is a Political document NOT a religious one.

Keep your beliefs to yourselves, maybe if you all practiced that, the world might be a better place.

Back to top

REBELLION is not what most people think it is.
REBELLION is when you turn off the TV & start educating & thinking for yourself.
Gavin Nascimento

IP Logged

Quantum

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 3373

Re: Rudd smacked down on Bible verse
Reply #71 - Sep 4^th, 2013 at 1:23pm

rabbitoh07 wrote on Sep 4^th, 2013 at 12:28pm:

Quantum wrote on Sep 4^th, 2013 at 10:25am:

The only person bending the bible is Rudd, and most Christians know that.

The bible is like any other topic; it has a mainstream view, then it has many smaller alternative views. Does every scientist believe in climate change? Does every scientist believe that vaccinations are safe? Does every scientist believe that fluoride in water is good for you? No matter the topic, there will always be someone who has a different opinion. Usually most people hold to the mainstream view that the majority of experts support. However, many people who will believe the experts on other issues will happily dismiss the mainstream when it comes to biblical studies. Several people may spend 50 years doing bible reaserch, trying to understand the historical context and looking at all possible views, yet people will happily dismiss that reaserch by finding a verse through google and saying that their interpretation is as good as anyone else's. Rudd totally missed what Paul was saying, but since Rudd also missed what the gospel is on about in his next sentence that is hardly surprising.

Rudd showed every Christian on Monday that he has not read the bible. He complelty misquoted it, and gave one of the weakess summaries of the gospel ever made. He is clearly trying to walk a line of saying "I'm a Christian" while grabbing votes from the non Christians as well. And isn't that what the real question was about? It had nothing to do with gay marriage, but instead was about Christians in Australia not sure anymore on what he actually believes. He says one thing, but he also says and does another and people are now confused on where he stands. His answer on Monday only highlighted these two sides of Kevin. Until Monday he seemed like a Christian trying to win the non Christian vote. After Q&A he seems like a non Christian trying to keep the Christian vote by simply saying "I'm a committed Christian, I just don't follow Christ or believe the bible". His response would have lost him as many votes as he picked up.

Complete nonsense.

Rudd did not directly "quote" the Bible - he said "the Bible also says that slavery is a natural condition."

Which is perfectly true. THere are many references to slavery in the Bible indicating that it was a perfectly normal condition at the time the Bible was written.

How did this go from "natural" condition to "normal" condition?

"Normal" implies society based acceptance than can differer from time and place. "Natural" implies human based condition that applies at all times in all places. The Bible may have acknowledge and worked within the situation of slavery at the time, but it does not say that it is a "natural" condition.

Of course slavery was "normal" during the time the Bible was written. The Bible was written in an historical context and at that time slavery was wide spread. Slavery also had a wide range of different meanings during this time, and we cannot take examples of 18th century American slavery and impose them on the 1st century Roman world and pretend they mean the same thing.

Quote:

He raised this to show how stupid people are to cherry-pick parts of the Bible and take them literally.

The Bible says in several places that homosexuality is wrong. But true Christians acknowledge that this is not at all consistent with the teachings of Jesus - the dude that Christians are supposed to follow more than anyone.

This is exactly the issue I was addressing in the post above. People who are not Christians telling the wider Christian body what true Christians believe.

You have on this forum shown to get very frustrated and angry at anyone who doesn't agree to the mainstream scientific view of Climate change. Anyone quoting from other scientists who disagree with it is ridiculed as an idiot. You will however tell the mainstream Christian community what makes a "true Christian" and what the Bible says based on your own quotes from it.

Quote:

The Pastor said to Rudd:
"I just believe in what the Bible says and I'm just curious for you, Kevin, if you call yourself a Christian, why don't you believe the words of Jesus in the Bible?"

Weher exactly did Jesus ever say gay marriage was wrong?!?!

What Jesus DID apparently say was:

"Therefore, whatever you want men to do to you, do also to them,"
Matt7:12

It seems like Rudd has a far more Christian attitude than Abbott who forced his party members to vote in favour of discrimination

Actually, Jesus also said this;

"Have you not read that He Who created them from the beginning made them male and female, and said,

"Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife"

There is more to suggest that Jesus held to male and female being what marriage is about, rather than thinking that loving others or following the golden rule means permitting anything anyone wishes.

But all this is actually beside the point. The main issue is 'what does Rudd actually believe?'. He has change his stance on several issues, the gay marriage opinion is just another example. The problem was he did not reassure Christians that he stands by his faith. Instead, it would seem that his own personal beliefs are at the mercy of the voters.

Back to top

IP Logged

Bobby. Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 111572 Melbourne Gender:	Re: Rudd smacked down on Bible verse Reply #72 - Sep 4^th, 2013 at 1:31pm How can Rudd support men who sodomise each other's backsides - it's revolting.
Back to top	IP Logged

darkhall67

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 1935

Re: Rudd smacked down on Bible verse
Reply #73 - Sep 4^th, 2013 at 1:45pm

longweekend58 wrote on Sep 4^th, 2013 at 1:00pm:

Verge wrote on Sep 4^th, 2013 at 12:54pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Sep 4^th, 2013 at 12:03pm:

Verge wrote on Sep 4^th, 2013 at 11:54am:

longweekend58 wrote on Sep 4^th, 2013 at 11:30am:

Quantum wrote on Sep 4^th, 2013 at 11:21am:

longweekend58 wrote on Sep 4^th, 2013 at 11:02am:

I was very disappointed in Rudd because most genuine Christians don't let politics get in the way of their religious beliefs or actions. The parliamentary Christian Fellowship is an example. But for Rudd, everything is about him and his wishes and his promotion. And you are right quantum. His understanding of the Gospel has shown that his understanding of the basic tenet of the Bible is flawed and very poor. I don't think he has the slightest clue.

Yes, he really got this one wrong. I know for a lot of non Christians his answer was good, and that in fine and understandable. If you are not a Christian the bible is surely irrelevant so who cares if his answers fit with it. But I'm sure many Christians picked up on the fact that he essentially took Christ out of Christian in a response to a question as to why Christians can trust him. For someone like him who confesses to be a Christian (plus as a politician in an election week of a nation that has millions of Christians), that was madness. Yes polictians should not let their beliefs get in the way of politics, but as you said, he has let politics get in the way of his own beliefs. Very disappointing.

I think that that is possibly the worst indictment on his character. I've said in the past that Rudd doesn't believe in anything other than himself. Now, I suspect that may in fact be literally true.

But you yourself have used christanity as a reason for opposing same sex marriage. Are you not using your religious beliefs to justify your political position on this matter?

I too have used my christian beliefs in my support of gay marriage.

We all have done it mate, Abbott as well (are we forgetting the abortion issue from when he was health minister).

To pretend otherwise shows how low you will sink to throw some mud.

this post indicates that you have no idea what we are talking about. your examples here are about people having religious and moral positions that they believe in and acting upon them. we are actually saying that Rudd has no beliefs of any kind and that he promotes anything that wil gain him advantage.

Explain to me again why Rudd doesnt believe in anything when his position was very clear?

Because you dont believe his motives?

This is nothing more than a personal attack on Rudd. You dont like the guy, and dont trust him. Thats fine, but to claim that his position means nothing because he only believes in himself is laughable. Talk about a stupid position for you to take.

You are playing the man, and not the ball. You are letting your obvious distain and dislike for a man cloud your judgement.

his position on boat people is the opposite of his previous position. His position on gay marriage is the opposite of what it used to be. and on and on it goes. But this is a BIBLICAL question. Rudd doesn't get the option as a Christian to choosing what he does and doesn't agree with in the Bible. ?

Then neither do you.

Which must mean as verge said ;

"... Jesus believed you cant cut your hair, wear clothing of different materials, put cattle of different breeds in the same paddock and people can be put to death."

and that slaves should obey their masters
saturday morning stick gatherers should be put to death
daughters can be sold.

and an endless list of ridiculous, barbaric dos and donts.

Can YOU choose which ones to believe and which ones not?

After all as YOU said;

"Jesus said that He absolutely supported the law and the Prophets"

Back to top

IP Logged

Verge

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 6329
Gender: male

Re: Rudd smacked down on Bible verse
Reply #74 - Sep 4^th, 2013 at 2:32pm

longweekend58 wrote on Sep 4^th, 2013 at 1:00pm:

Verge wrote on Sep 4^th, 2013 at 12:54pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Sep 4^th, 2013 at 12:03pm:

Verge wrote on Sep 4^th, 2013 at 11:54am:

longweekend58 wrote on Sep 4^th, 2013 at 11:30am:

Quantum wrote on Sep 4^th, 2013 at 11:21am:

longweekend58 wrote on Sep 4^th, 2013 at 11:02am:

I was very disappointed in Rudd because most genuine Christians don't let politics get in the way of their religious beliefs or actions. The parliamentary Christian Fellowship is an example. But for Rudd, everything is about him and his wishes and his promotion. And you are right quantum. His understanding of the Gospel has shown that his understanding of the basic tenet of the Bible is flawed and very poor. I don't think he has the slightest clue.

Yes, he really got this one wrong. I know for a lot of non Christians his answer was good, and that in fine and understandable. If you are not a Christian the bible is surely irrelevant so who cares if his answers fit with it. But I'm sure many Christians picked up on the fact that he essentially took Christ out of Christian in a response to a question as to why Christians can trust him. For someone like him who confesses to be a Christian (plus as a politician in an election week of a nation that has millions of Christians), that was madness. Yes polictians should not let their beliefs get in the way of politics, but as you said, he has let politics get in the way of his own beliefs. Very disappointing.

I think that that is possibly the worst indictment on his character. I've said in the past that Rudd doesn't believe in anything other than himself. Now, I suspect that may in fact be literally true.

But you yourself have used christanity as a reason for opposing same sex marriage. Are you not using your religious beliefs to justify your political position on this matter?

I too have used my christian beliefs in my support of gay marriage.

We all have done it mate, Abbott as well (are we forgetting the abortion issue from when he was health minister).

To pretend otherwise shows how low you will sink to throw some mud.

this post indicates that you have no idea what we are talking about. your examples here are about people having religious and moral positions that they believe in and acting upon them. we are actually saying that Rudd has no beliefs of any kind and that he promotes anything that wil gain him advantage.

Explain to me again why Rudd doesnt believe in anything when his position was very clear?

Because you dont believe his motives?

This is nothing more than a personal attack on Rudd. You dont like the guy, and dont trust him. Thats fine, but to claim that his position means nothing because he only believes in himself is laughable. Talk about a stupid position for you to take.

You are playing the man, and not the ball. You are letting your obvious distain and dislike for a man cloud your judgement.

his position on boat people is the opposite of his previous position. His position on gay marriage is the opposite of what it used to be. and on and on it goes. But this is a BIBLICAL question. Rudd doesn't get the option as a Christian to choosing what he does and doesn't agree with in the Bible. But you aren't listening to the crux of what Quantum and I are saying. It is disappointingly obvious that Rudd doesn't really know what the Bibles position on anything is - or if he does, he doesn't care. He seems to have no idea that the Gospel is about Christ - not warm fuzzy feelings. I am deeply disturbed that Rudd has chosen to sideline his Christian beliefs (assuming he has any) to adopt a policy that he things will gain him some votes. The man believes in NOTHING other than himself. Could you find a single policy or issue on which he has been dogmatically clear and unmoving?

As a christian you most certaintly get to decide what you do and dont follow from the bible, and to suggest otherwise is laughable and rather idiotic.

Wasnt it leviticus who thought that children who cursed out their parents and homosexuals should be killed. Did he also say something about women with familiar spirits should be stoned to death, and women are of a lesser value than men? I love the one about don't mix seeds when sowing a field or wear a garment with mixed fibers.

Do you support these as well?

As such a strong student of the bible Longy of pure faith, why do you put such blind faith into such actions?

Back to top

And why not, if you will permit me; why shouldn’t I, if you will permit me; spend my first week as prime minister, should that happen, on this, on your, country - Abbott with the Garma People Aug 13

IP Logged