Australian Politics Forum - Rudd smacked down on Bible verse

longweekend58

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Re: Rudd smacked down on Bible verse
Reply #150 - Sep 4^th, 2013 at 11:00pm

Mnemonic wrote on Sep 4^th, 2013 at 9:30pm:

Quantum wrote on Sep 4^th, 2013 at 8:24pm:

Now his "I'm a committed Christian" is itself coming across as nothing but a vote finder.

I have rarely ever heard him say that and I don't consider it important anyway. This is a secular country with a secular government. Religion should be kept out of politics.

"Marriage" as we know it here today is a secular institution, not a religious one, only useful to the government for taxation purposes and economic management. It's just semantics. It's like going to CentreLink or the ATO and changing your name but having the same Customer Reference or Tax File numbers. You are still the same person but with a different name. It's the same with "gay marriage." It's just a name for something. It's not like the secular concept of "marriage" has to be kosher or halal, that somehow your body is rendered unclean if you lived in a secular society where a gay couple called their relationship a "gay marriage." It doesn't say anywhere in the Gospels that Christians should be making laws in a secular society.

If your name was Matthew, would you mind if I called you Matt or Matty? If your name was John, would you mind if I called you Johnny or Jonathan?

Look at it this way. You are not being forced into a gay marriage. You are not being forced into sinning. This is not like what happened when Antiochus Epiphanes sacrificed a pig in the Jewish temple and triggered the Maccabean revolt. Gay marriage isn't anything close to a desecration of the Holy of Holies. Someone else's gay marriage is not a desecration of your heart and mind. Someone else's sin doesn't make you unclean.

Quantum wrote on Sep 4^th, 2013 at 8:24pm:

Many Christians would rather vote for an agnostic or an atheist than someone who tries to win votes by holding a Bible in their hand when they don't believe the thing anyway.

Kevin Rudd's personal religious beliefs are irrelevant. What matters are his policies. We either vote for that or we don't.

Quantum wrote on Sep 4^th, 2013 at 8:37pm:

The small details of Christianity are up for debate and always will be. Christians will always have disagreements about one thing or the other and there will never be total conformity on all matters. But removing Christ from Christianity is like saying you are an atheist that believes in god. There are some things that simply define what something is and once you change that core foundation it is no longer the same. It is a bit rich when non-Christians tell Christians that Christianity can be anything you want it to be. Without Christ, it is no longer Christianity.

As the rabbis would say, the Torah is not in heaven. God isn't here to tell us what a tradition says, so we have to decide. Some groups have dedicated people for that, while for others it's a free-for-all and a layperson is good enough. Someone has to sit in Moses' seat.

the point being made by Quantum and others is that if Rudd is so laissexz-faire with his faith and so willing to thru it overboard for votes then how can you trust hime with ANYTHING. It is a deeply disturbing character flaw.

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matty

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Re: Rudd smacked down on Bible verse
Reply #151 - Sep 4^th, 2013 at 11:01pm

One thing that sickens me is people using religion to their advantage, or someone misinterpreting/misinterpreting the Bible. Rudd could be in either category.

By the former, I mean those who pretend to be Christian, in order to gain appeal. Rudd could very well not be, and may just be pretending to be Christian in order to appeal to Christian voters. That, or he doesn't understand the very religion of which he claims to be an adherent.

Any true Christian would know that the Bible doesn't endorse slavery whatsoever.

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rabbitoh07

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Re: Rudd smacked down on Bible verse
Reply #152 - Sep 4^th, 2013 at 11:03pm

longweekend58 wrote on Sep 4^th, 2013 at 10:54pm:

The Bible is either the Word of God or it is not. You either believe it all or you believe none of it. If you want to pick and choose what you believe then the Bible becomes worthless to you.

So - am I allowed to eat pelicans or not?
And do I need to burn my cotton/polyester blend shirts so I don't go to Hell?

You are getting very confused Senator Bernardi

First you told us that:
Jesus said that He absolutely supported the law and the Prophets which both unequivocally condemned homosexuality

Now you tell us:
those old testament laws do not apply any more

Now you are back again to:
The Bible is either the Word of God or it is not. You either believe it all or you believe none of it.

Which is it Senator Bernardi?

Did Jesus tell us to love each other and treat others as we would have them treat ourselves?

Or - as you seem to think - did Jesus tell you that being homosexual is equivalent to being a "klepto or a pedo or a sociopath or a violent person " - and therefor, you can skip all the []"love each other and treat others as we would have them treat ourselves"[/i] stuff and just be a complete bastard?

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longweekend58

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Re: Rudd smacked down on Bible verse
Reply #153 - Sep 4^th, 2013 at 11:03pm

John Smith wrote on Sep 4^th, 2013 at 10:51pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Sep 4^th, 2013 at 10:49pm:

rabbitoh07 wrote on Sep 4^th, 2013 at 7:28pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Sep 4^th, 2013 at 12:34pm:

Jesus said that He absolutely supported the law and the Prophets which both unequivocally condemned homosexuality. To claim that Jesus was pro-gay is absurd. Any student of the bible would conclude the exact opposite. and obviously by extension He would oppose gay marriage.

Yet Ephesians 2:15 says of Jesus:
He rendered the Law inoperative, along with its commandments and regulations, thus creating in himself one new humanity from the two, thereby making peace,

Jesus never said we cant eat pelicans
Jesus never said that we can't plant two different crops in the same field
Jesus never said that we can't wear garments made of two different kinds of thread
Jesus never said that we must stone adulterers to death
Jesus never said that menstruating women are unclean

And Jesus never said there was anything wrong with gay marriage.
He said the exact opposite really.
He said we should love each over and treat others as we would have them treat ourselves.

I think Satan has entered your posts.
They are complete crap.

an argument from silence is the weakest possible. And the opposite of not opposing is SUPPORTING. Jesus never supported homosexuality and obviously not gay marriage. What a daft argument!

I've never claimed to oppose Manchester United, does that mean I support them?

ironically, you have made MY argument for me. Its that whole English comprehension weakness you have going on there.

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John Smith Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 77052 Gender:	Re: Rudd smacked down on Bible verse Reply #154 - Sep 4^th, 2013 at 11:04pm matty wrote on Sep 4^th, 2013 at 11:01pm: One thing that sickens me is people using religion to their advantage I agree, imagine the hide of all those trying to use religion as their reason to prevent marriage equality ... blatant hypocrisy if you ask me
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longweekend58

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Re: Rudd smacked down on Bible verse
Reply #155 - Sep 4^th, 2013 at 11:05pm

rabbitoh07 wrote on Sep 4^th, 2013 at 10:53pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Sep 4^th, 2013 at 10:49pm:

rabbitoh07 wrote on Sep 4^th, 2013 at 7:28pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Sep 4^th, 2013 at 12:34pm:

Jesus said that He absolutely supported the law and the Prophets which both unequivocally condemned homosexuality. To claim that Jesus was pro-gay is absurd. Any student of the bible would conclude the exact opposite. and obviously by extension He would oppose gay marriage.

Yet Ephesians 2:15 says of Jesus:
He rendered the Law inoperative, along with its commandments and regulations, thus creating in himself one new humanity from the two, thereby making peace,

Jesus never said we cant eat pelicans
Jesus never said that we can't plant two different crops in the same field
Jesus never said that we can't wear garments made of two different kinds of thread
Jesus never said that we must stone adulterers to death
Jesus never said that menstruating women are unclean

And Jesus never said there was anything wrong with gay marriage.
He said the exact opposite really.
He said we should love each over and treat others as we would have them treat ourselves.

I think Satan has entered your posts.
They are complete crap.

an argument from silence is the weakest possible. And the opposite of not opposing is SUPPORTING. Jesus never supported homosexuality and obviously not gay marriage. What a daft argument!

What Jesus did say was that we should love each other and treat others as we would have them treat ourselves.

How does this teaching fit in with your stance as a homophobic bigot?

Why do you hold such un-Chistian views against your fellow men?

Why are you arguing directly against Jesus' teachings?

And why can't you get your story straight?

First you told us that:
Jesus said that He absolutely supported the law and the Prophets which both unequivocally condemned homosexuality

Now you tell us:
those old testament laws do not apply any more

The only thing worse than a homophobic bigot, is an homophobic bigot who displays his ignorance with stupid contradictory statements

and you think this statement means that everything is okay??? so pedos are okay now? your argument makes that too.

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John Smith

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Re: Rudd smacked down on Bible verse
Reply #156 - Sep 4^th, 2013 at 11:05pm

longweekend58 wrote on Sep 4^th, 2013 at 11:03pm:

John Smith wrote on Sep 4^th, 2013 at 10:51pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Sep 4^th, 2013 at 10:49pm:

rabbitoh07 wrote on Sep 4^th, 2013 at 7:28pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Sep 4^th, 2013 at 12:34pm:

Jesus said that He absolutely supported the law and the Prophets which both unequivocally condemned homosexuality. To claim that Jesus was pro-gay is absurd. Any student of the bible would conclude the exact opposite. and obviously by extension He would oppose gay marriage.

Yet Ephesians 2:15 says of Jesus:
He rendered the Law inoperative, along with its commandments and regulations, thus creating in himself one new humanity from the two, thereby making peace,

Jesus never said we cant eat pelicans
Jesus never said that we can't plant two different crops in the same field
Jesus never said that we can't wear garments made of two different kinds of thread
Jesus never said that we must stone adulterers to death
Jesus never said that menstruating women are unclean

And Jesus never said there was anything wrong with gay marriage.
He said the exact opposite really.
He said we should love each over and treat others as we would have them treat ourselves.

I think Satan has entered your posts.
They are complete crap.

an argument from silence is the weakest possible. And the opposite of not opposing is SUPPORTING. Jesus never supported homosexuality and obviously not gay marriage. What a daft argument!

I've never claimed to oppose Manchester United, does that mean I support them?

ironically, you have made MY argument for me. Its that whole English comprehension weakness you have going on there.

Nope, I think it is you that fails to comprehend ..... Cheesy

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rabbitoh07

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Re: Rudd smacked down on Bible verse
Reply #157 - Sep 4^th, 2013 at 11:05pm

matty wrote on Sep 4^th, 2013 at 11:01pm:

One thing that sickens me is people using religion to their advantage, or someone misinterpreting/misinterpreting the Bible. Rudd could be in either category.

By the former, I mean those who pretend to be Christian, in order to gain appeal. Rudd could very well not be, and may just be pretending to be Christian in order to appeal to Christian voters. That, or he doesn't understand the very religion of which he claims to be an adherent.

Any true Christian would know that the Bible doesn't endorse slavery whatsoever.

Yes. 100% Correct.

Nobody - especially Mr Rudd - ever said that the Bible did endorse slavery in anyway whatsoever.

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longweekend58

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Re: Rudd smacked down on Bible verse
Reply #158 - Sep 4^th, 2013 at 11:07pm

John Smith wrote on Sep 4^th, 2013 at 11:05pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Sep 4^th, 2013 at 11:03pm:

John Smith wrote on Sep 4^th, 2013 at 10:51pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Sep 4^th, 2013 at 10:49pm:

rabbitoh07 wrote on Sep 4^th, 2013 at 7:28pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Sep 4^th, 2013 at 12:34pm:

Jesus said that He absolutely supported the law and the Prophets which both unequivocally condemned homosexuality. To claim that Jesus was pro-gay is absurd. Any student of the bible would conclude the exact opposite. and obviously by extension He would oppose gay marriage.

Yet Ephesians 2:15 says of Jesus:
He rendered the Law inoperative, along with its commandments and regulations, thus creating in himself one new humanity from the two, thereby making peace,

Jesus never said we cant eat pelicans
Jesus never said that we can't plant two different crops in the same field
Jesus never said that we can't wear garments made of two different kinds of thread
Jesus never said that we must stone adulterers to death
Jesus never said that menstruating women are unclean

And Jesus never said there was anything wrong with gay marriage.
He said the exact opposite really.
He said we should love each over and treat others as we would have them treat ourselves.

I think Satan has entered your posts.
They are complete crap.

an argument from silence is the weakest possible. And the opposite of not opposing is SUPPORTING. Jesus never supported homosexuality and obviously not gay marriage. What a daft argument!

I've never claimed to oppose Manchester United, does that mean I support them?

ironically, you have made MY argument for me. Its that whole English comprehension weakness you have going on there.

Nope, I think it is you that fails to comprehend ..... Cheesy

no. Unfortunately, you weakness with language and English comprehension frequently has you making the opposite argument to the one you think you are making. this is just another example.

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Quantum

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Re: Rudd smacked down on Bible verse
Reply #159 - Sep 4^th, 2013 at 11:08pm

rabbitoh07 wrote on Sep 4^th, 2013 at 10:36pm:

Quantum wrote on Sep 4^th, 2013 at 8:37pm:

The small details of Christianity are up for debate and always will be. Christians will always have disagreements about one thing or the other and there will never be total conformity on all matters. But removing Christ from Christianity is like saying you are an atheist that believes in god. There are some things that simply define what something is and once you change that core foundation it is no longer the same. It is a bit rich when non-Christians tell Christians that Christianity can be anything you want it to be. Without Christ, it is no longer Christianity.

Christ never said anything against gay marriage.

What has gay marriage got to do with what I just said? I was talking about the fundamental aspects of Christianity. That Christianity like Atheism has a core definition. If we lose that basic definition than any beliefs or non beliefs lose all meaning.

Quote:

He said the exact opposite. He said that we should love each other and treat others as we would have them treat ourselves.

A homophobic bigot cannot be a true Christian.

If you want to call Rudd a hypocrite for claiming to be Christian and then treat it asylum seekers in a very un-Christian way - you would be correct. He is as big a hypocrite as Abbott is on that matter.

But he got it right on QandA about gay marriage.

You can tell he got it right because all the bigoted hypocrites like Longy have been squealing like stuck piggies over 9 pages of this thread.

Hypocrites like Longy always whinge loudest when their hypocrisy is shown up for all to see.

To what end? Is saying no or saying I don't agree unloving? Is standing against something that is wrong unloving?

Do you let the person who was born with a medical condition in their brain that causes them to say, do, and want strange things, have anything they want? Could someone not say no and still love that person as a person?

If I do not give drugs to the drug addict is that also a sign of not being loving? After all, if I was the drug addict I would want the drugs. Should't I do for others what I would want them to do for me?

If some who is gay says to me they want to get married, unless I agree with that and support it I am not being loving and a true Christian? At what point can I say no to something? What perversion would be so bad that I can say "I don't support that" and that would be ok as a Christian to say that?

Quote:

A homophobic bigot cannot be a true Christian.

So people who are not in support of gay marriage are homophobic bigots and are therefore not real Christians? That is an unbelievable claim.

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rabbitoh07

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Re: Rudd smacked down on Bible verse
Reply #160 - Sep 4^th, 2013 at 11:10pm

longweekend58 wrote on Sep 4^th, 2013 at 11:05pm:

and you think this statement means that everything is okay??? so pedos are okay now? your argument makes that too.

WHat do "pedos" have to do with this discussion?

You ARE Senator Bernardi, aren't you!

And though you have gone off topic - I do recall that Jesus did choose to eat with prostitutes and tax-collectors. He did not discriminate agains them in the bigoted way that you discriminate against homosexuals.

Do you know what a "Christian" actually is? Generally - the bigotry you are displaying is frowned upon.

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John Smith

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Re: Rudd smacked down on Bible verse
Reply #161 - Sep 4^th, 2013 at 11:16pm

longweekend58 wrote on Sep 4^th, 2013 at 11:07pm:

John Smith wrote on Sep 4^th, 2013 at 11:05pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Sep 4^th, 2013 at 11:03pm:

John Smith wrote on Sep 4^th, 2013 at 10:51pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Sep 4^th, 2013 at 10:49pm:

rabbitoh07 wrote on Sep 4^th, 2013 at 7:28pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Sep 4^th, 2013 at 12:34pm:

Jesus said that He absolutely supported the law and the Prophets which both unequivocally condemned homosexuality. To claim that Jesus was pro-gay is absurd. Any student of the bible would conclude the exact opposite. and obviously by extension He would oppose gay marriage.

Yet Ephesians 2:15 says of Jesus:
He rendered the Law inoperative, along with its commandments and regulations, thus creating in himself one new humanity from the two, thereby making peace,

Jesus never said we cant eat pelicans
Jesus never said that we can't plant two different crops in the same field
Jesus never said that we can't wear garments made of two different kinds of thread
Jesus never said that we must stone adulterers to death
Jesus never said that menstruating women are unclean

And Jesus never said there was anything wrong with gay marriage.
He said the exact opposite really.
He said we should love each over and treat others as we would have them treat ourselves.

I think Satan has entered your posts.
They are complete crap.

an argument from silence is the weakest possible. And the opposite of not opposing is SUPPORTING. Jesus never supported homosexuality and obviously not gay marriage. What a daft argument!

I've never claimed to oppose Manchester United, does that mean I support them?

ironically, you have made MY argument for me. Its that whole English comprehension weakness you have going on there.

Nope, I think it is you that fails to comprehend ..... Cheesy

no. Unfortunately, you weakness with language and English comprehension frequently has you making the opposite argument to the one you think you are making. this is just another example.

and I'm the one with a weakness of the English language ........ Grin

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rabbitoh07

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Re: Rudd smacked down on Bible verse
Reply #162 - Sep 4^th, 2013 at 11:17pm

Quantum wrote on Sep 4^th, 2013 at 11:08pm:

rabbitoh07 wrote on Sep 4^th, 2013 at 10:36pm:

Quantum wrote on Sep 4^th, 2013 at 8:37pm:

The small details of Christianity are up for debate and always will be. Christians will always have disagreements about one thing or the other and there will never be total conformity on all matters. But removing Christ from Christianity is like saying you are an atheist that believes in god. There are some things that simply define what something is and once you change that core foundation it is no longer the same. It is a bit rich when non-Christians tell Christians that Christianity can be anything you want it to be. Without Christ, it is no longer Christianity.

Christ never said anything against gay marriage.

What has gay marriage got to do with what I just said? I was talking about the fundamental aspects of Christianity. That Christianity like Atheism has a core definition. If we lose that basic definition than any beliefs or non beliefs lose all meaning.

More to the point - what has what you just said have to do with a thread about the PMs views on gay marriage?

Christ said nothing about gay marriage.

Quantum wrote on Sep 4^th, 2013 at 11:08pm:

If some who is gay says to me they want to get married, unless I agree with that and support it I am not being loving and a true Christian? At what point can I say no to something? What perversion would be so bad that I can say "I don't support that" and that would be ok as a Christian to say that?

Bigots like the Pastor on Qand A don't want gay people to marry.

THat is discriminatory, and essentially un-Christian.

Quantum wrote on Sep 4^th, 2013 at 11:08pm:

So people who are not in support of gay marriage are homophobic bigots and are therefore not real Christians? That is an unbelievable claim.

No - that is not unbelieveable at all.

Christ taught us to love each over and treat others as we would have them treat ourselves. That is the central tenet of Christianity.

Not discrimination based on bigotry.

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John Smith

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Re: Rudd smacked down on Bible verse
Reply #163 - Sep 4^th, 2013 at 11:18pm

John Smith wrote on Sep 4^th, 2013 at 10:57pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Sep 4^th, 2013 at 10:53pm:

Forget homosexuality and tell me how being born a klepto or a pedo or a sociopath or a violent person or all those other behaviours are OKAY because they are born with them. That argument is bogus. Many of us struggle with urges drives and weaknesses everyday but we don't use the excuse that we were 'born with it'.

so which of those do you struggle with? pedo? klepto? socio?

http://idiotklub.com/idiot.gif

bump for longy ... come on, you said you struggle with one of these ... which one?

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longweekend58

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Re: Rudd smacked down on Bible verse
Reply #164 - Sep 4^th, 2013 at 11:19pm

Quantum wrote on Sep 4^th, 2013 at 11:08pm:

rabbitoh07 wrote on Sep 4^th, 2013 at 10:36pm:

Quantum wrote on Sep 4^th, 2013 at 8:37pm:

The small details of Christianity are up for debate and always will be. Christians will always have disagreements about one thing or the other and there will never be total conformity on all matters. But removing Christ from Christianity is like saying you are an atheist that believes in god. There are some things that simply define what something is and once you change that core foundation it is no longer the same. It is a bit rich when non-Christians tell Christians that Christianity can be anything you want it to be. Without Christ, it is no longer Christianity.

Christ never said anything against gay marriage.

What has gay marriage got to do with what I just said? I was talking about the fundamental aspects of Christianity. That Christianity like Atheism has a core definition. If we lose that basic definition than any beliefs or non beliefs lose all meaning.

Quote:

He said the exact opposite. He said that we should love each other and treat others as we would have them treat ourselves.

A homophobic bigot cannot be a true Christian.

If you want to call Rudd a hypocrite for claiming to be Christian and then treat it asylum seekers in a very un-Christian way - you would be correct. He is as big a hypocrite as Abbott is on that matter.

But he got it right on QandA about gay marriage.

You can tell he got it right because all the bigoted hypocrites like Longy have been squealing like stuck piggies over 9 pages of this thread.

Hypocrites like Longy always whinge loudest when their hypocrisy is shown up for all to see.

To what end? Is saying no or saying I don't agree unloving? Is standing against something that is wrong unloving?

Do you let the person who was born with a medical condition in their brain that causes them to say, do, and want strange things, have anything they want? Could someone not say no and still love that person as a person?

If I do not give drugs to the drug addict is that also a sign of not being loving? After all, if I was the drug addict I would want the drugs. Should't I do for others what I would want them to do for me?

If some who is gay says to me they want to get married, unless I agree with that and support it I am not being loving and a true Christian? At what point can I say no to something? What perversion would be so bad that I can say "I don't support that" and that would be ok as a Christian to say that?

Quote:

A homophobic bigot cannot be a true Christian.

So people who are not in support of gay marriage are homophobic bigots and are therefore not real Christians? That is an unbelievable claim.

If you've ever been a parent, then saying NO to a child is an essential part of love. Saying no to bad behaviour is an act of love. And this is the true sickness in all of this is that the pro-gay movement wants ITS RIGHTS but only by deny the rights of others to hold their own opinion. Just as all you hypocrites are ranting now. It is now homophobic to oppose gay marriage. not opposing homosexuality but simply gay marriage.

You know why I oppose gay marriage? firstly I think it is wrong and homosexuality as well. But that's not the main reason. the main reason is because it NEVER ENDS. after gay marriage what is next? well obviously the right to be married in a church and wanting churches to be forced to do so. Then there is adoption which obviously must be as a priority ahead of hetero couples. And then there will be the demand for priority on something else. it NEVER ENDS.

IM sick of it. You want a bill in parliament every 3 months until you get your own way while it takes 10 years to get disabilitycare thru parliament. You are ALWAYS complaining about gay marriage when there are 1000 more important things. it is always about you and never about anyone else. there is never even the slightest appreciation for the opinions of the vast vast vast majority of straight people who might be entitled to object but are apparently homophobic if they dare raise their voice.

When you poofs care about the truly disadvantaged in society like the homeless and the mentally ill then you might earn some respect. Where is the marches in support of mental health care for our sick? nowhere. but plenty of poofs in dresses demanding their latest pitiful need.

You don't deserve gay marriage. you haven't earned the right.

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