Australian Politics Forum - a guide to AGW for the layman

Ajax

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Re: a guide to AGW for the layman
Reply #15 - Aug 30^th, 2013 at 11:24am

# wrote on Aug 30^th, 2013 at 11:09am:

Ajax wrote on Aug 30^th, 2013 at 10:55am:

# wrote on Aug 30^th, 2013 at 10:25am:

With science of such complexity, is "a layman trying to make sense of it all" sensible? Over the past four decades, I've come to the conclusion that it's futile.

We can all try to understand it to the best of our abilities.

That way we can differentiate the wheat from the chaff.

Quote:

Can those who attempt to do so in ignorance, do so without making fools of themselves?

I don't think the many prominent scientist trying to do so, are doing it in ignorance...??

Clearly, we define "many" differently. With equal clarity, you're no less ignorant than I.

Whether you're making a fool of yourself - if not worse - you'll need to judge for yourself. I don't doubt that the readers have already judged.

I would say that there are just as many scientists who oppose AGW with those that try to confirm it.

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#

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Re: a guide to AGW for the layman
Reply #16 - Aug 30^th, 2013 at 2:00pm

Ajax wrote on Aug 30^th, 2013 at 11:24am:

...
I would say that there are just as many scientists who oppose AGW with those that try to confirm it.

Of course you would. Science, however says otherwise.

Scepticism is fundamental to science. Every scientist working in the field is on the lookout for faults in the argument. So far, it seems, they're mainly finding confirmations.

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Ajax

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Re: a guide to AGW for the layman
Reply #17 - Aug 30^th, 2013 at 2:35pm

# wrote on Aug 30^th, 2013 at 2:00pm:

Ajax wrote on Aug 30^th, 2013 at 11:24am:

...
I would say that there are just as many scientists who oppose AGW with those that try to confirm it.

Of course you would. Science, however says otherwise.

Scepticism is fundamental to science. Every scientist working in the field is on the lookout for faults in the argument. So far, it seems, they're mainly finding confirmations.

# wrote on Aug 30^th, 2013 at 2:15pm:

Ajax wrote on Aug 29^th, 2013 at 6:16pm:

... I say that today,

We have some of the coolest temperatures EVER and

We also have some of the lowest amounts of CO2 in our atmosphere......!!!!!!!!!

The vast majority of the best qualified say otherwise, or so it seems.

# wrote on Aug 30^th, 2013 at 2:21pm:

Ajax wrote on Aug 29^th, 2013 at 6:12pm:

muso wrote on Aug 29^th, 2013 at 2:22pm:

I recognise the names. They all work for the Heartland institute (or most of them do).

So what are you insinuating that these scientists are spouting nonsense because you disagree with their views....?????

Don't their affiliations call their credibility into question? If their opinions are so significant, why are they such a tiny minority?

Ajax wrote on Aug 29^th, 2013 at 6:12pm:

Can you prove them wrong.....??????

Is that a reasonable demand to make? Can you "prove" them right?

look here
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1377835124

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2. "One hour of freedom is worth more than 40 years of slavery & prison" Regas Feraeos

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#

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Re: a guide to AGW for the layman
Reply #18 - Aug 30^th, 2013 at 2:47pm

Ajax wrote on Aug 30^th, 2013 at 2:35pm:

# wrote on Aug 30^th, 2013 at 2:00pm:

[quote author=Ajax link=1377741960/15#15 date=1377825861]...
I would say that there are just as many scientists who oppose AGW with those that try to confirm it.

Of course you would. Science, however says otherwise.
...
look here
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1377835124

I'll take that as acknowledgement of defeat.

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Ajax Gold Member Offline CO2 has never controlled temperature on Earth Posts: 11000 Australia Gender:	Re: a guide to AGW for the layman Reply #19 - Aug 30^th, 2013 at 2:47pm # wrote on Aug 30^th, 2013 at 2:45pm: I'll take that as acknowledgement of defeat. Sometimes I wonder who the deniers really are.....??? What would you do if the AGW religion fell apart....?? You don't have to answer that.
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# Gold Member Offline A fool is certain: an ignorant fool, absolutely so Posts: 2603	Re: a guide to AGW for the layman Reply #20 - Aug 30^th, 2013 at 2:50pm Ajax wrote on Aug 30^th, 2013 at 2:47pm: # wrote on Aug 30^th, 2013 at 2:45pm: I'll take that as acknowledgement of defeat. Sometimes I wonder who the deniers really are.....??? ... When it's convincingly established that the majority of the best qualified say there's no risk, I'll stop worrying.
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muso Gold Member Offline Posts: 13151 Gladstone, Queensland Gender:	Re: a guide to AGW for the layman Reply #21 - Aug 30^th, 2013 at 3:33pm AJax, posting the same thing on multiple threads is spamming. I have deleted your spam posts, and left the first post you made.
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Ajax Gold Member Offline CO2 has never controlled temperature on Earth Posts: 11000 Australia Gender:	Re: a guide to AGW for the layman Reply #22 - Aug 30^th, 2013 at 7:34pm muso wrote on Aug 30^th, 2013 at 3:33pm: AJax, posting the same thing on multiple threads is spamming. I have deleted your spam posts, and left the first post you made. then you should also delete # repeated posts..?????
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# Gold Member Offline A fool is certain: an ignorant fool, absolutely so Posts: 2603	Re: a guide to AGW for the layman Reply #23 - Aug 30^th, 2013 at 9:35pm Ajax wrote on Aug 30^th, 2013 at 7:34pm: muso wrote on Aug 30^th, 2013 at 3:33pm: AJax, posting the same thing on multiple threads is spamming. I have deleted your spam posts, and left the first post you made. then you should also delete # repeated posts..????? Ajax, you're starting to whine.
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rabbitoh07

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Re: a guide to AGW for the layman
Reply #24 - Aug 30^th, 2013 at 10:04pm

Ajax wrote on Aug 30^th, 2013 at 11:24am:

I would say that there are just as many scientists who oppose AGW with those that try to confirm it.

Yes. You say a lot of stupid things, don't you.

Funny that none of these "scientists who oppose AGW" never actually publish any research in scientific journals to support their opinions, isn't it.

I suppose this is all part of a conspiracy theory, huh.

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Ajax

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Re: a guide to AGW for the layman
Reply #25 - Aug 31^st, 2013 at 9:26am

rabbitoh07 wrote on Aug 30^th, 2013 at 10:04pm:

Ajax wrote on Aug 30^th, 2013 at 11:24am:

I would say that there are just as many scientists who oppose AGW with those that try to confirm it.

Yes. You say a lot of stupid things, don't you.

Funny that none of these "scientists who oppose AGW" never actually publish any research in scientific journals to support their opinions, isn't it.

I suppose this is all part of a conspiracy theory, huh.

When are you going to take your head out of the hole and look around.

The AGW has really dug their claws into you haven't they, you might need surgery to remove them..... Tongue

(Baliunas & Jastrow 1990)
(Foukal & Lean 1990)
(Friis-Christensen & Lassen 1991)
(Lockwood et al 1992)
(Scuderi 1993)
(Charvatova & Strestik 1995)
(Balinius & Soon 1996-1998)
(Soon et al 1996)
(Hoyt & Schatten 1997)
(Nicola Scaffeta & Bruce J West 2008)

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2. "One hour of freedom is worth more than 40 years of slavery & prison" Regas Feraeos

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rabbitoh07

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Re: a guide to AGW for the layman
Reply #26 - Aug 31^st, 2013 at 10:21am

Ajax wrote on Aug 31^st, 2013 at 9:26am:

rabbitoh07 wrote on Aug 30^th, 2013 at 10:04pm:

[quote author=Ajax link=1377741960/15#15 date=1377825861]

I would say that there are just as many scientists who oppose AGW with those that try to confirm it.

Yes. You say a lot of stupid things, don't you.

Funny that none of these "scientists who oppose AGW" never actually publish any research in scientific journals to support their opinions, isn't it.

I suppose this is all part of a conspiracy theory, huh.

When are you going to take your head out of the hole and look around.

The AGW has really dug their claws into you haven't they, you might need surgery to remove them..... Tongue

Ajax wrote on Aug 31^st, 2013 at 9:26am:

(Baliunas & Jastrow 1990)

Evidence for long-term brightness changes of solar-type stars

This paper does not in any way argue against the fact that AGW is occurring

Ajax wrote on Aug 31^st, 2013 at 9:26am:

(Foukal & Lean 1990)

An Empirical Model of Total Solar Irradiance Variation Between 1874 and 1988
The model provides a remarkably good representation of the irradiance variations observed by satellite-borne radiometers between 1980 and 1988. It suggests that the mean total irradiance has been rising steadily since about 1945, with the largest peak so far at about 1980 and another large peak expected during the current solar cycle 22. But it is doubtful whether even this rise can contribute significantly to global warming, unless the temperature increase of about 0.02°C that it produces in current energy balance models seriously underestimates the sensitivity of climate to solar irradiance changes.

This paper does not in any way argue against the fact that AGW is occurring. In fact - it indirectly supports it by suggesting that solar variability in not contributing significantly to global warming.

Ajax wrote on Aug 31^st, 2013 at 9:26am:

(Friis-Christensen & Lassen 1991)

Yes. This paper identified a correlation between solar activity and temperature up to 1991.

But as one of the author's says:
Friis-Christensen agreed that any correlation between sunspots and global warming that he may have identified in the 1991 study has since broken down. There is, he said, a clear "divergence" between the sunspots and global temperatures after 1986, which shows that the present warming period cannot be explained by solar activity alone

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eigil_Friis-Christensen

It is very dishonest of you to try to represent this scientist as an AGW denier.

Ajax wrote on Aug 31^st, 2013 at 9:26am:

(Lockwood et al 1992)

Can't even find this one. Why don't you provide a link for us and show us what the paper really says

Ajax wrote on Aug 31^st, 2013 at 9:26am:

(Scuderi 1993)

A 2000-Year Tree Ring Record of Annual Temperatures in the Sierra Nevada Mountains
Tree ring data have been used to reconstruct the mean late-season (June through January) temperature at a timberline site in the Sierra Nevada, California, for each of the past 2000 years. Long-term trends in the temperature reconstruction are indicative of a 125-year periodicity that may be linked to solar activity as reflected in radiocarbon and auroral records. The results indicate that both the warm intervals during the Medieval Warm Epoch (∼A.D. 800 to 1200) and the cold intervals during the Little Ice Age (∼A.D. 1200 to 1900) are closely associated with the 125-year period. Significant changes in the phase of the 125-year temperature variation occur at the onset and termination of the most recent radiocarbon triplet and may indicate chaotic solar behavior

How on earth you you think that this paper in any way disputes the face that AGW is occurring?

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rabbitoh07

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Re: a guide to AGW for the layman
Reply #27 - Aug 31^st, 2013 at 10:29am

Ajax wrote on Aug 31^st, 2013 at 9:26am:

(Charvatova & Strestik 1995)

Long-term changes of the surface air temperature in relation to solar inertial motion
The inertial motion of the Sun around the barycentre, or centre of mass, of the Solar System has been employed as the base in searching for possible influence of the Solar System as a whole on climatic processes, especially on the changes in surface air temperature. A basic cycle of about 180–200 years and its higher harmonics up to 30 years have been found in surface air temperature of central Europe since 1753, established from 13 continuous instrumental time series. These periods correspond to the periods of solar inertial motion. In the first half of the 19th century, when the solar motion was chaotic, this temperature was about 0.75°C lower than that in the 20th (1940–50) and the 18th (1760–70) centuries. The mentioned decades of long-term temperature maxima coincide with the central decades of the ordered (trefoil) motion of the Sun. The temperatures in coastal Europe have been found to have slightly different properties, especially on a long-time scale. The periods of 35–45 years are significantly pronounced in the coastal Europe temperature spectrum. The chaotic motion of the Sun in the next decades could decrease both the solar forcing and global surface air temperature.

Another paper looking at the relationship between solar activity and temperature
Another paper that does not in any way argue against the fact that AGW is occurring
Another lie from you

Ajax wrote on Aug 31^st, 2013 at 9:26am:

(Balinius & Soon 1996-1998)

Any particular paper you are referring to here? Why don't you provide us a link

Ajax wrote on Aug 31^st, 2013 at 9:26am:

(Soon et al 1996)

Again - no idea what paper you are referring to? Why don't you provide us a link.

You seem to be relying very heavily on this Soon and Balinaus, aren't you. Why is that?

Surely, if as you say "there are just as many scientists who oppose AGW with those that try to confirm it." - you should be able to find thousands of papers from scientific journals with evidence to support that arguement.

You have shown us none so far.
Zero.
Zip.
Nada.

You are a liar - and you are not very good at it.

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Ajax Gold Member Offline CO2 has never controlled temperature on Earth Posts: 11000 Australia Gender:	Re: a guide to AGW for the layman Reply #28 - Aug 31^st, 2013 at 5:37pm Hhhhhmmmmmm........................ I think its your lot that are deniers....!!!!!!!!
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muso

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Re: a guide to AGW for the layman
Reply #29 - Aug 31^st, 2013 at 6:39pm

Ajax wrote on Aug 31^st, 2013 at 5:37pm:

Hhhhhmmmmmm........................

I think its your lot that are deniers....!!!!!!!!

The sad thing is that you don't know the basic facts that you dispute. You've demonstrated that in almost every post. You post things like saying that emissions of CO2 do not initiate the end of glaciations as if it's some kind of world shattering revelation. It isn't. It's just common sense. CO2 is not the initial driver of temperature.

Ajax, these are things that a high school student studying science would know.

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