Australian Politics Forum - Why So Many Conservatives Deny The Climate Problem

Ajax

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Re: Why So Many Conservatives Deny The Climate Problem
Reply #45 - Aug 27^th, 2013 at 11:30pm

muso wrote on Aug 27^th, 2013 at 11:14pm:

Good try, but no cigar. Nobody is claiming that there will be a runaway greenhouse effect. The only people who claim that the IPCC are saying that, are the denialists.

Some astronomers have speculated that in a couple of billion years the Earth could develop a runaway greenhouse effect, but it certainly has nothing to do with climatology.

Ducking for cover again.

Its only going to get tuffer for the alarmists as one by one their hypothesis is put to shame.

Like for example sea levels, they have dropped by what was it 7mm, how the .... can they measure that anyway.

The hot spot in the tropopasue is the mantle piece of AGW.

Now that it cant be found.....???

Its in one of the AR papers maybe one day i'll dig it but not tonight.

Quote:

The Missing Hotspot
Dr David Evans (david.evans@sciencespeak.com)
21 July 2008

Last major revision 22 Mar 2009, Last minor revision 18 Sept 2010

Web address: http://sciencespeak.com/MissingSignature.pdf

An easy two-page version of this paper is at sciencespeak.com/SimpleHotspot.pdf.

Summary

Each cause of global warming heats up the atmosphere in a distinctive pattern—its ―signature‖. According to IPPC climate theory, the signature of carbon emissions and the signature of warming due to all causes during the recent global warming both include a prominent ―hotspot‖ at about 10 – 12 km in the air over the tropics.

But the warming pattern observed by radiosondes during the recent global warming contains no trace of any such hotspot. Therefore:

1. IPCC climate theory is fundamentally wrong.

2. To the extent that IPCC climate theory is correct in predicting a hotspot due to extra carbon dioxide, we know that carbon emissions did not cause the recent global warming.

The hotspot is not incidental to IPCC climate theory—it lies at its heart, because the same water vapor feedback that produces the hotspot in IPCC climate theory also doubles or triples the temperature increases predicted by the IPCC climate models.

If the IPCC climate modellers just turn down the water vapor feedback in their models enough so their theoretical signatures match the observed warming patterns, then the predicted temperature increases due to projected carbon emissions are greatly reduced and are no longer of much concern.

The radiosonde data shocked the alarmists, who expected a hotspot to confirm their theory. Alarmists now dispute the radiosonde data, saying it is so poor that it cannot show any pattern.

But radiosondes can reliably detect temperature differences of 0.1°C, and the hotspot would be at least 0.6°C warmer. And there were hundreds of radiosondes—they cannot all have missed it.

Alarmists now distract people away from the hotspot issue, and often give the impression that they found the hotspot without actually claiming they have.

Scarcely anyone knows about the missing hotspot and its significance. (Which proves that alarmists do not tell us when they find evidence against their idea that carbon emissions are the main cause of global warming.)

http://sciencespeak.com/MissingSignature.pdf

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Ajax

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Re: Why So Many Conservatives Deny The Climate Problem
Reply #46 - Aug 27^th, 2013 at 11:35pm

rabbitoh07 wrote on Aug 27^th, 2013 at 11:29pm:

Ajax wrote on Aug 27^th, 2013 at 5:48pm:

Since 1998 more than one third of ALL that's ALL manmade CO2 emissions have been released into our atmosphere and yet there has been no warming since 1998.

That just shoots your theory full of holes.

Oh dear. How many times must you be told?

There has been warming since 1998.
It is unequivocal
Indisputable.

It is the warming since 1998 that has caused the arctic ice cap to decrease
It is the warming since 1998 that has caused global glacial mass balance to decrease.
It is the warming since 1998 that has caused sea levels to rise

I know that a tabloid journalist in the Daily Mail told you different - but guess what. He is wrong.

Doesn't it bother you that everything you write is demonstrably wrong?

You can't add up.
You cant understand what you read
You tell lies.

Why do you do this?

No there has not.

Open your eyes dude FFS.

Quote:

Climate Sensitivity Reconsidered

The following article has not undergone any scientific peer review, since that is not normal procedure for American Physical Society newsletters. The American Physical Society reaffirms the following position on climate change, adopted by its governing body, the APS Council, on November 18, 2007: "Emissions of greenhouse gases from human activities are changing the atmosphere in ways that affect the Earth's climate."

By Christopher Monckton of Brenchley

Abstract

The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC, 2007) concluded that anthropogenic CO2 emissions probably caused more than half of the “global warming” of the past 50 years and would cause further rapid warming. However, global mean surface temperature has not risen since 1998 and may have fallen since late 2001. The present analysis suggests that the failure of the IPCC’s models to predict this and many other climatic phenomena arises from defects in its evaluation of the three factors whose product is climate sensitivity:
1.Radiative forcing ΔF;
2.The no-feedbacks climate sensitivity parameter κ; and
3.The feedback multiplier ƒ.

Some reasons why the IPCC’s estimates may be excessive and unsafe are explained. More importantly, the conclusion is that, perhaps, there is no “climate crisis”, and that currently-fashionable efforts by governments to reduce anthropogenic CO2 emissions are pointless, may be ill-conceived, and could even be harmful.

http://www.aps.org/units/fps/newsletters/200807/monckton.cfm

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1. There has never been a more serious assault on our standard of living than Anthropogenic Global Warming..Ajax
2. "One hour of freedom is worth more than 40 years of slavery & prison" Regas Feraeos

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muso

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Re: Why So Many Conservatives Deny The Climate Problem
Reply #47 - Aug 28^th, 2013 at 9:47am

Ajax wrote on Aug 27^th, 2013 at 11:30pm:

muso wrote on Aug 27^th, 2013 at 11:14pm:

Good try, but no cigar. Nobody is claiming that there will be a runaway greenhouse effect. The only people who claim that the IPCC are saying that, are the denialists.

Some astronomers have speculated that in a couple of billion years the Earth could develop a runaway greenhouse effect, but it certainly has nothing to do with climatology.

Ducking for cover again.

Its only going to get tuffer for the alarmists as one by one their hypothesis is put to shame.

It never was a hypothesis.

Quote:

Like for example sea levels, they have dropped by what was it 7mm, how the .... can they measure that anyway.

You're not reading the replies. I think I'll stop trying. This has all been explained to you - and sea levels are on a rising trend.

Quote:

The hot spot in the tropopasue is the mantle piece of AGW.
[/quote

No it isn't. It's not crucial to anything. A hot spot in the tropopause is a result of any forcing resulting in warming - direct solar, increased CO2, anything.

[quote]
Now that it cant be found.....???

Its in one of the AR papers maybe one day i'll dig it but not tonight.

The only hot air is that coming from Dave Evans, Joanne Nova's other half - the self styled rocket scientist and quack.

Quote:

[size=12]The Missing Hotspot
Dr David Evans (david.evans@sciencespeak.com)
21 July 2008

Summary
Each cause of global warming heats up the atmosphere in a distinctive pattern—its ―signature‖. According to IPPC climate theory, the signature of carbon emissions and the signature of warming due to all causes during the recent global warming both include a prominent ―hotspot‖ at about 10 – 12 km in the air over the tropics.

To me, Dave's argument (we are not worthy) is:

1. The hot spot that they can't find (actually they can, once they correct for noise) can be caused by any kind of warming. (Dave said it himself- see the highlighted text).

2. Because the hot spot isn't there (of course we know otherwise), it must be due to a failure of CO2 (as opposed to any cause) to cause warming.

Meanwhile there is evidence of global warming.

Can you see the logical fallacy? Think about it. Who is he trying to kid? Joanne Nova?

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muso

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Re: Why So Many Conservatives Deny The Climate Problem
Reply #48 - Aug 28^th, 2013 at 9:55am

Ajax wrote on Aug 27^th, 2013 at 11:35pm:

By Christopher Monckton of Brenchley

Getting a bit desperate there. Christopher Monckton? He's a graduate in Classical History (By Jove) and a journalist. Apart from that he makes a tidy sum from talking nonsense to gullible Americans and Australians. He claims that he's a member of the British House of Lords.

Lord help us.

http://www.parliament.uk/business/news/2011/july/letter-to-viscount-monckton/

Quote:

Dear Lord Monckton

My predecessor, Sir Michael Pownall, wrote to you on 21 July 2010, and again on 30 July 2010, asking that you cease claiming to be a Member of the House of Lords, either directly or by implication. It has been drawn to my attention that you continue to make such claims......

I think you can spot the nonsense in just about anything Monckton writes yourself. (He makes stuff up dude. He photoshops graphs and switches the axes) Roll Eyes

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Ajax

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Re: Why So Many Conservatives Deny The Climate Problem
Reply #49 - Aug 28^th, 2013 at 3:09pm

muso wrote on Aug 28^th, 2013 at 9:47am:

It never was a hypothesis.

The Earth is heating no one disputes this....!!

The alarmists say that ALL that's ALL of this warming is due to manmade CO2 emissions.

They kind a forgot that where coming out of a glaciation period, naturally temperature are going to go up.

Like I keep saying today we have some of the coolest temperature we have ever had, we also have some of the lowest amounts of CO2 in our atmosphere that we have ever had.

So when the IPCC says to you and me that ALL the warming is due to manmade CO2 emissions, I find it hard that say a person like your self who is educated will not think for themselves and do a bit of research.

The "because we say so" line doesn't gell with Aussies.

Never has never will.

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1. There has never been a more serious assault on our standard of living than Anthropogenic Global Warming..Ajax
2. "One hour of freedom is worth more than 40 years of slavery & prison" Regas Feraeos

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muso

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Re: Why So Many Conservatives Deny The Climate Problem
Reply #50 - Aug 28^th, 2013 at 10:08pm

Ajax wrote on Aug 28^th, 2013 at 3:09pm:

Like I keep saying today we have some of the coolest temperature we have ever had, we also have some of the lowest amounts of CO2 in our atmosphere that we have ever had.

You keep saying the same things regardless of the fact that they have been demonstrated to be wrong.

That isn't skepticism. That's repetition of your articles of faith.

Very pious.

Quote:

The Earth is heating no one disputes this....!!

DO YOU EVEN KNOW WHAT A RUNAWAY GREENHOUSE EFFECT IS?
Roll Eyes

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« Last Edit: Aug 29^th, 2013 at 7:57am by muso »

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Ajax

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Re: Why So Many Conservatives Deny The Climate Problem
Reply #51 - Aug 29^th, 2013 at 6:16pm

muso wrote on Aug 28^th, 2013 at 10:08pm:

You keep saying the same things regardless of the fact that they have been demonstrated to be wrong.

That isn't skepticism. That's repetition of your articles of faith.

Very pious.

Are you saying that I'm lying when I say that today,

We have some of the coolest temperatures EVER and

We also have some of the lowest amounts of CO2 in our atmosphere......!!!!!!!!!

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1. There has never been a more serious assault on our standard of living than Anthropogenic Global Warming..Ajax
2. "One hour of freedom is worth more than 40 years of slavery & prison" Regas Feraeos

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# Gold Member Offline A fool is certain: an ignorant fool, absolutely so Posts: 2603	Re: Why So Many Conservatives Deny The Climate Problem Reply #52 - Aug 30^th, 2013 at 2:15pm Ajax wrote on Aug 29^th, 2013 at 6:16pm: ... I say that today, We have some of the coolest temperatures EVER and We also have some of the lowest amounts of CO2 in our atmosphere......!!!!!!!!! The vast majority of the best qualified say otherwise, or so it seems.
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Ajax

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Re: Why So Many Conservatives Deny The Climate Problem
Reply #53 - Aug 30^th, 2013 at 2:33pm

# wrote on Aug 30^th, 2013 at 2:15pm:

Ajax wrote on Aug 29^th, 2013 at 6:16pm:

... I say that today,

We have some of the coolest temperatures EVER and

We also have some of the lowest amounts of CO2 in our atmosphere......!!!!!!!!!

The vast majority of the best qualified say otherwise, or so it seems.

# wrote on Aug 30^th, 2013 at 2:21pm:

Ajax wrote on Aug 29^th, 2013 at 6:12pm:

muso wrote on Aug 29^th, 2013 at 2:22pm:

I recognise the names. They all work for the Heartland institute (or most of them do).

So what are you insinuating that these scientists are spouting nonsense because you disagree with their views....?????

Don't their affiliations call their credibility into question? If their opinions are so significant, why are they such a tiny minority?

Ajax wrote on Aug 29^th, 2013 at 6:12pm:

Can you prove them wrong.....??????

Is that a reasonable demand to make? Can you "prove" them right?

look here
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1377835124

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1. There has never been a more serious assault on our standard of living than Anthropogenic Global Warming..Ajax
2. "One hour of freedom is worth more than 40 years of slavery & prison" Regas Feraeos

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#

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ignorant fool, absolutely
so

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Re: Why So Many Conservatives Deny The Climate Problem
Reply #54 - Aug 30^th, 2013 at 2:45pm

Ajax wrote on Aug 30^th, 2013 at 2:33pm:

# wrote on Aug 30^th, 2013 at 2:15pm:

Ajax wrote on Aug 29^th, 2013 at 6:16pm:

... I say that today,

We have some of the coolest temperatures EVER and

We also have some of the lowest amounts of CO2 in our atmosphere......!!!!!!!!!

The vast majority of the best qualified say otherwise, or so it seems.

...
look here
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1377835124

I'll take that as acknowledgement of defeat.

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Ajax Gold Member Offline CO2 has never controlled temperature on Earth Posts: 11064 Australia Gender:	Re: Why So Many Conservatives Deny The Climate Problem Reply #55 - Aug 30^th, 2013 at 2:47pm # wrote on Aug 30^th, 2013 at 2:45pm: I'll take that as acknowledgement of defeat. Sometimes I wonder who the deniers really are.....??? What would you do if the AGW religion fell apart....?? You don't have to answer that.
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#

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so

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Re: Why So Many Conservatives Deny The Climate Problem
Reply #56 - Aug 30^th, 2013 at 2:50pm

Ajax wrote on Aug 30^th, 2013 at 2:47pm:

# wrote on Aug 30^th, 2013 at 2:45pm:

I'll take that as acknowledgement of defeat.

Sometimes I wonder who the deniers really are.....???
...

When it's convincingly established that the majority of the best qualified say there's no risk, I'll stop worrying.

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muso Gold Member Offline Posts: 13151 Gladstone, Queensland Gender:	Re: Why So Many Conservatives Deny The Climate Problem Reply #57 - Aug 30^th, 2013 at 3:31pm Ajax. Please stop flooding threads with identical posts.
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Ajax

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Re: Why So Many Conservatives Deny The Climate Problem
Reply #58 - Aug 30^th, 2013 at 7:35pm

muso wrote on Aug 30^th, 2013 at 3:31pm:

Ajax. Please stop flooding threads with identical posts.

what about this....?????...its in every thread where you deleted mine..???

# wrote on Aug 30^th, 2013 at 2:50pm:

When it's convincingly established that the majority of the best qualified say there's no risk, I'll stop worrying.

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#

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Re: Why So Many Conservatives Deny The Climate Problem
Reply #59 - Aug 30^th, 2013 at 9:38pm

Ajax wrote on Aug 30^th, 2013 at 7:35pm:

muso wrote on Aug 30^th, 2013 at 3:31pm:

Ajax. Please stop flooding threads with identical posts.

what about this....?????...its in every thread where you deleted mine..???

# wrote on Aug 30^th, 2013 at 2:50pm:

When it's convincingly established that the majority of the best qualified say there's no risk, I'll stop worrying.

Oh, God! Muso, I don't mind. Then again, should a tantrum be rewarded?

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