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Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti (Read 30027 times)
Adamant
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Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Reply #330 - Nov 15th, 2013 at 3:29pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 15th, 2013 at 2:36pm:
Just on the cultural aspect, Ghassan Hage in his controversial book "White Nation" has an interesting thesis, which states that promoters of multiculturalism are actually attempting to assert their white/anglo cultural dominance in society. Basically he proposes a "core/periphery" model of multicultural society, where cultural diversity is only promoted in so far as it emphasises the importance of a "core" dominant anglo culture - and this is done by patronising, objectifying and essentially dehumanizing the novel "periphery" cultures. Indeed, the  original ideology of multiculturalism that proposed a trully equal society of hybrid cultures espoused by those well-intentioned intellectuals like Jerzy Zubrzycki has been well and trully hijacked by the 'core/periphery' model.Zubrzycki's original idea would be considered anathema to even the most ardent 'progressive' today:



Publish the link you petty plagiarist unless of course you are the owner of this  copyrighted material.
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Lord Herbert
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Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Reply #331 - Nov 15th, 2013 at 3:35pm
 
Adamant wrote on Nov 15th, 2013 at 3:21pm:
I migrated to Oz from the UK 30 years ago, best thing I ever did! Having returned there twice in the last 6 yrs I can honestly say it is fvucked. People are to scared to speak to you in the streets, it is a sea of muslim faces in Leicester, dingy suburbs, poorly kept footpaths and smog blackened buildings,


That must hurt, Adam. As a genuine generational Englishman that must be very upsetting.

I lived in China for 7 years before I arrived in England, so it never really got into my bones as my 'homeland'.

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Lord Herbert
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Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Reply #332 - Nov 15th, 2013 at 3:36pm
 
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Karnal
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Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Reply #333 - Nov 15th, 2013 at 4:02pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Nov 15th, 2013 at 2:36pm:
Karnal wrote on Nov 15th, 2013 at 2:02pm:
Multiculturalism is a set of values influenced by the shifting global economy in the 1970s. It was a cultural response to the end of the British empire and, when Britain joined the EC, the end of our economic reliance on British trade.

This, more than anything else, spelt the end of white, British Australia. With the drop in European emigration, it was a logical response to open ourselves up to Asia.


Just on the cultural aspect, Ghassan Hage in his controversial book "White Nation" has an interesting thesis, which states that promoters of multiculturalism are actually attempting to assert their white/anglo cultural dominance in society. Basically he proposes a "core/periphery" model of multicultural society, where cultural diversity is only promoted in so far as it emphasises the importance of a "core" dominant anglo culture - and this is done by patronising, objectifying and essentially dehumanizing the novel "periphery" cultures. Indeed, the  original ideology of multiculturalism that proposed a trully equal society of hybrid cultures espoused by those well-intentioned intellectuals like Jerzy Zubrzycki has been well and trully hijacked by the 'core/periphery' model.


The old boy's not going to be too pleased with that one, Gandalf. You do realize no one has the right to not be offended, don't you?

Maybe you should take it down.

As a core country, the core-periphery model works totally in Australia's favour at present. The thing about the global economy, however, is that it's in a constant state of transition. The core is changing. So far, Australia has been masterful at keeping abreast of it all, but it helps that we developed enough early on to keep up - thanks to our position in the British empire.

As the US slides, Australia is going to need to find its place within East Asia, which is slowly becoming the core. Not only does this require economic integration, it requires East Asians, and this is exactly why Mr Abbott's best friend, Rupert Murdoch, advocates more Asian immigration.

If Australia is going to remain successful, it needs to morph culturally and economically. The two aren't indistinguishable, but they do go hand in hand.

However, Australia also needs to maintain its own identity - this is also why we're valued by China and Asia. Asians, I think, like the idea of a quaint old European world within Asia. They want access to their own language and culture, but they aspire to a form of Westernization.

If you want to see 'patronising, objectifying and essentially dehumanizing of "periphery" cultures', look no further than the knuckleheads here. I don't think a hybrid "East meets West" culture like Australia need be altogether patronizing, but yes, there can be no doubt that Australia is clearly guilty of this.
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Grey
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Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Reply #334 - Nov 15th, 2013 at 5:12pm
 
Karnal - I do not accept your definitions of 'Cosmopolitan' or 'Multicultural'. It really is much simpler than that verbiage makes out.

Cosmopolitan is a descriptor of place. It's really got sod all to do with economics except peripherally. All cities may be diverse to an extent but the true cosmopolitan cities became that by dint of location. In London's case being the centre of power and empire. Paris was never a cosmopolitan hub like Marseilles.

Multiculture is a direct policy initiative emanating from government. I think language is important. Multiculture implies ghettoisation, antiintegration and thereby 'conflict'. In anycase I don't accept that such social engineering is the business of government.

Immigration needs to be structured certainly; but not by favouring colour or ethnicity. They same rules should apply whether the applicant is from Ulanbattor or Birmingham.

Government should concern itself with vision. Where are immigrants going to go? What work is available?

The future is going to be about food production, amongst other considerations. The cost of food is going to steadily rise, I don't think that's contested by anybody. It so happens that's the traditional pathway into a culture trodden by poor migrants.

If migrants were given the opportunity to develop the immense resources of the Ord River, (frinstance), rather than being dumped on the dole in Sydney, we wouldn't be having this conversation. It's a win win solution.
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Lord Herbert
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Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Reply #335 - Nov 15th, 2013 at 5:26pm
 
Grey wrote on Nov 15th, 2013 at 5:12pm:
It's really got sod all to do with economics except peripherally.

All cities may be diverse to an extent but the true cosmopolitan cities became that by dint of location.

Multiculture is a direct policy initiative emanating from government.

Multiculture implies ghettoisation, antiintegration and thereby 'conflict'.

In anycase I don't accept that such social engineering is the business of government.

Immigration needs to be structured certainly; but not by favouring colour or ethnicity.

If migrants were given the opportunity to develop the immense resources of the Ord River, (frinstance), rather than being dumped on the dole in Sydney, we wouldn't be having this conversation. It's a win win solution. 


You're making a lot of sense lately, Mr Grey.

You're about as conservative in your politics as anyone I know.

Welcome to the Real World.
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Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Reply #336 - Nov 15th, 2013 at 7:56pm
 
It boggles the mind to think these monstrous swine are today living freely and openly instead of being in hiding from a Most Wanted list and the guillotine.

These are the politicians who conspired to engineer a genocide-by-mass-immigration upon the British locals.

Quotes from the article ...

Quote:
Mass immigration wasn’t a ‘mistake’. A mistake is forgetting to take an umbrella when heavy rain is forecast. A mistake is wearing brown suede shoes with a blue pinstripe suit.

No, trawling the globe for immigrants was a deliberate Labour policy. It was designed, in the memorable words of former Blair speech-writer Andrew Neather, to ‘rub the Right’s noses in diversity’.


Quote:
Labour set out utterly to transform the demographic make-up of England without making any attempt to obtain democratic consent.

I say ‘England’ specifically, because it is England which has borne the brunt of mass immigration and is now struggling to live with the consequences.


Quote:
New Labour hated the English. We weren’t to be trusted. In 2000, Straw himself damned the English as violent nationalists who have used force to subjugate other races. It was a despicable slur, but entirely in keeping with Labour’s core strategy.


Quote:
The fear was that the love affair with New Labour wouldn’t last and the English would revert to type and return a Conservative government. So the plan was to flood the country with immigrants who would then repay the favour by voting Labour.


Quote:
Ministers told bare-faced lies about their true intentions and smeared anyone who objected to the unprecedented influx of foreign nationals as a ‘racist’ or a ‘xenophobe’.


Quote:
Sir Andrew Green, the mild-mannered former diplomat who runs MigrationWatch UK, was subjected to a vile and sustained campaign of character assassination. Green’s ‘crime’ was to expose, forensically and accurately, the genuine scale of immigration.


Quote:
Straw was up to his neck in this synchronised deceit. Now that he is standing down as an MP and no longer has to ingratiate himself with his Muslim constituents in Blackburn, he seems to think that a quick mea culpa and a couple of Hail Marys will absolve him of his share of responsibility.


Quote:
In Sheffield, the locals are angry about Roma gypsies loitering in the streets and dumping litter.

Blunkett said: ‘We have got to be tough and robust in saying to these people: “You are not living in a downtrodden village or woodlands.” ’

This would be hilarious were it not so tragic. Labour’s pernicious policy of ‘multi-culturalism’ encouraged immigrants to carry on behaving as they did in their homeland with no concessions to the host community.


Quote:
The multi-cultists expected British society to adapt to accommodate immigrants, not vice versa.


Quote:
Astonishingly, this country now has one of the biggest Roma populations in Europe — 200,000 and counting, even before Romanians and Bulgarians get the right to work and feast on Britain’s benefits buffet in January.


Quote:
Those of us who expressed reservations about Labour’s reckless  open-door immigration policy were howled down and smeared as neanderthal racists by Labour and its allies in the BBC and the Left-wing press.


link


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Grendel
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Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Reply #337 - Nov 15th, 2013 at 8:33pm
 
Quote:
THE ORIGIN OF "THE CULT OF ETHNICITY"
(MULTICULTURALISM)



The birth of the concept of multiculturalism can be traced back to the writings of Horace Kallen, who advocated a policy of "cultural pluralism". Kallen, a German-born Jewish-American philosopher, first published his ideas in 1915. He attacked assimilation and the melting-pot theory, and instead proposed that America should become a "commonwealth of... nationalities". Ignoring the potential threats to the ideal of a unified society, Kallen encouraged a philosophy of ethnic separatism, despite warnings that cultural pluralism would "result in the Balkanisation of the United States".

In his critique of the "cult of ethnicity", The Disuniting of America, Arthur Schlesinger relates how "The gospel of cultural pluralism was at first largely confined to academics, intellectuals, and artists" but that, after the Second World War "The civil rights revolution provoked new expressions of ethnic identity by the now long-resident `new migration' from southern and eastern Europe". He notes that the pressure for the new cult of ethnicity came not from the ethnic minorities en masse (who saw themselves as Americans), but "from their often self-appointed spokesmen". Schlesinger says that the ethnic upsurge "began as a gesture of protest against the Anglocentric culture", but became a "cult", and now threatens the unity of America.

The fatally flawed concept of cultural pluralism eventually took hold in other countries. The term "multiculturalism" was coined in Canada in the 1960s, and was used by the Trudeau Government to try to promote harmony between the predominant French-Canadian and British-Canadian cultures, as well as with the various minority cultures.

Largely made possible by "nearly three decades of large-scale heterogenous immigration", the ideology of multiculturalism took root in Australia during the late 1960s, where it became the rallying cry of various academics , liberals, and "lefties". One of the prime movers of this "cult of ethnicity" was the Polish-born Professor Jerzy Zubrzycki, who has been described as the "architect of multiculturalism in Australia". Of Zubrzycki, it was reported that "He was one of the first Australian academics in the late 1960s to put forward multiculturalism as an alternative to the then social policy of assimilation. He says nobody took the proposal seriously until 1973, when he pursued the policy as chairman of the Social Issues Committee of the Immigration Advisory Council to the Whitlam Government. The committee argued Australia had to move towards a recognition of cultural pluralism". Later, as Chairman of the Australian Ethnic Affairs Council, and then as Chairman of the Ethnic Affairs Task Force, he had a guiding hand in presenting two "landmark" reports to Malcolm Fraser's Liberal Government: Australia as a Multicultural Society (1977) and Multiculturalism for all Australians (1982). It has been said that the commitment of successive governments to the multicultural ideal was due "thanks principally to Jerzy Zubrzycki".

pt1.
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Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Reply #338 - Nov 15th, 2013 at 8:35pm
 
pt 2.

Quote:
However, the rise of multiculturalism in Australia was due to the operations and lobbying of an entire movement and network of people (many now part of the "Multicultural Industry") who pushed for the adoption of multiculturalism as official government policy. James Jupp has admitted that "There is, then, no doubt that a small, mainly politically-involved minority ushered in multiculturalism as public policy". Zubrzycki claimed that "the major breakthrough" came in 1972 when Jean Martin (who largely wrote the 1977 report) gave her Meredith Memorial Lecture on the subject, followed by Grassby's "much publicised address" on multiculturalism in 1973. Indeed, "Australia's public debate about `multiculturalism' really developed during 1973 with the then Minister of Immigration, Al Grassby".

The advent of the Whitlam Labor Government (December 1972 to November 1975) was the vehicle via which multiculturalism "exploded onto the political scene". It was Grassby who, with the backing of the new government, pushed multiculturalism as far as it could go. It was a concept popular with the liberalistic academia and "migrant intellectuals ... [who] found the idea of multiculturalism attractive". Not only was the concept "a popular idea with the new intelligentsia, but more important, it had clearly struck a responsive chord with many immigrant communities, particularly those from southern Europe".

Multiculturalism was one of the few Whitlam programmes not jettisoned by Malcolm Fraser's incoming Liberal Government in 1975. Voting pattens had by then emerged which showed that "while voters from northern Europe had a similar voting pattern to the Australian-born and the eastern Europeans tended to support the conservative parties, southern Europeans were supporting the ALP". The Fraser government decided that a "commitment to multiculturalism ... could offer something to the southern European electorate". Support for multiculturalism came to be seen as a way of "buying the ethnic vote". As part of this political strategy, "Organised ethnic groups were recognised, funded and listened to. Politicians hoped that sections of the electorate could be reached if ethnic leaders were cultivated, and cultivation and funding helped to strengthen the position of ethnic leaders". Indeed, in 1976, the then Minister for Immigration, Michael MacKellar, admitted "that his Government intended to pursue multicultural policies because the Liberal/National Country Party coalition appeared to be unpopular with migrant voters".

Raymond Sestito has revealed the vote-chasing nature of multiculturalism; how the political parties introduced such policies, not "responding to organised pressure but rather as the initiators of the new policy". He explained that "By the early seventies a great deal of Italian and Greek migrants who had arrived from the mid-1950s onwards had become citizens and so gained the vote. Between January 1965 and June 1979, 188,640 Italians and 150,208 Greeks were granted Australian citizenship. This was too large a group of votes to be ignored by the major political parties. The migrant vote would become especially important to the Victorian ALP since there was a heavy concentration of Greek and Italian votes in the inner suburban area of Melbourne; attracting the migrant vote would be a way of keeping these seats ... Multiculturalism is so appealing to the parties because there are votes to be gained by promoting it. In this case we can say that Australia's political parties have been the initiators of multiculturalism, rather than responding to group pressure."

Sestito further explained the political dilemma of multiculturalism: "Once an issue is established, the bargaining process begins. This is where the parties are caught in a political bind. Once they have articulated the needs of groups, then it becomes hard for them to pull back. Groups which were previously unorganised become stronger and make increasing demands which the parties cannot ignore if they are to gain their vote. Political parties become locked into a situation where one tries to outbid the other in the promises each makes. Thus while in the 1960s one would be mistaken in thinking that migrants hardly existed, we now have a situation where parties compete to see who can promise the most to migrants."

"The first move to buy into the ethnic vote was made by the Federal ALP Government and its Minister for Immigration, Mr Al Grassby", whereby Whitlam's ALP Government (1972-1975) set up various migrant and ethnic services and infrastructures. "If the ALP was first off the mark, the Federal LCP coalition [Liberal Party and the Country Party] was quick to follow. In August of 1975 the coalition issued a detailed policy on immigration and ethnic affairs which was not only an extension of the ALP policy, but was radically different from previous coalition policies in this field. Introducing the policy, the shadow Minister for Immigration, Mr Michael MacKellar, said he `did not believe that Gough [Whitlam] had the migrant vote all tied up' ... Whereas in the 1960s there was a bi-partisan policy of ethnic assimilation and integration, it seems that multiculturalism has now become the policy of both major parties."(23)

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Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Reply #339 - Nov 15th, 2013 at 8:36pm
 
pt 3.

Quote:
Thus, multiculturalism came to be "endorsed in various ways in the policy statements of both major political parties", due to political agitation, misguided idealism, ethnic lobbying, and especially because of political dishonesty and "vote-grabbing".


http://www.gwb.com.au/gwb/news/pc/multi3.htm#origin
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Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Reply #340 - Nov 15th, 2013 at 8:46pm
 
Grey, while I’m not comfortable with the idea of governments - states - picking teams,  choosing sides and, in effect, creating ghettoes in urban spaces, I realize that this is exactly what they do - what they have always done.

Governments, be they states or councils or wards or burgs or Soviets or village elders, are people who come together to make rules about who can do what.

There are good reasons for doing this. In Europe, the plagues and great fires required complex planning. In Europe, there is before the plague, and after it. Public health created modern city planning. It created new classes and new relationships and new forms of being and excluding and interracting.

Multiculturalism is an extention of this form of planning, and yes, very Malthusian.

But all economics is. Economics, for want of a better definition, is about bringing the good to the greatest number. In its strictest utilitarian sense, it’s about minimizing pain, disease, poverty, vice, strife, class struggle. If there’s a positive definition in Western terms, I’m unsure of it.

From what I can tell, the Enlightenment has a pathological view of human relationships, because we spent most of the last millenium battling nature, and each other. Peace has rarely lasted for long. God’s grace is short-lasting.

So yeah, forgive me for being cynical, but I can’t see an absence of planning as a social good. The best social planning, I think, seems invisible, but if you look closely, there are still important economic decisions behind this.

Paris or Marseilles?

Paris was rebuilt after a fire, and Marseilles lived on to burn down later. Marseilles was spared, but only for a time.

The greatness of a city, perhaps - and maybe even a culture - lies in its endurance. But nothing endures without change.
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Grey
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Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Reply #341 - Nov 15th, 2013 at 9:12pm
 
Lord Herbert wrote on Nov 15th, 2013 at 5:26pm:
Grey wrote on Nov 15th, 2013 at 5:12pm:
It's really got sod all to do with economics except peripherally.

All cities may be diverse to an extent but the true cosmopolitan cities became that by dint of location.

Multiculture is a direct policy initiative emanating from government.

Multiculture implies ghettoisation, antiintegration and thereby 'conflict'.

In anycase I don't accept that such social engineering is the business of government.

Immigration needs to be structured certainly; but not by favouring colour or ethnicity.

If migrants were given the opportunity to develop the immense resources of the Ord River, (frinstance), rather than being dumped on the dole in Sydney, we wouldn't be having this conversation. It's a win win solution. 


You're making a lot of sense lately, Mr Grey.

You're about as conservative in your politics as anyone I know.

Welcome to the Real World.



Conservative? Yes i am sometimes, but racist never. I'm an Anarchist.
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Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Reply #342 - Nov 15th, 2013 at 9:40pm
 
If you are an anarchist then it's highly likely you are not a conservative.  But highly likely you favour multiculturalism.
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Karnal
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Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Reply #343 - Nov 15th, 2013 at 9:42pm
 
I don’t think Herbie intended to flatter, Grey.
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Grendel
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Re: Britain's experience of immigration & Multiculti
Reply #344 - Nov 15th, 2013 at 10:30pm
 
having read the Galbally report when it came out and everything about it and Multiculti in the early days how about you or gandalf pointing out the specifics where multiculturalism was a key economic policy?

http://www.aph.gov.au/About_Parliament/Parliamentary_Departments/Parliamentary_L...

Slim pickin's there.

I'm thinking this guff has come about based on;
1/ Fraser being a Liberal....   Grin
2/ The Left pushing the RW business barrow.
3/ The crap spread by the left and the right that it would not only be good socially, but lead to major economic gains.  Since they couldn't sell it on it's social merits.
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« Last Edit: Nov 16th, 2013 at 6:47am by Grendel »  
 
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