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Either you are a practising Muslim or a non-practi (Read 13310 times)
polite_gandalf
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Re: Either you are a practising Muslim or a non-practi
Reply #60 - Jul 30th, 2013 at 7:11pm
 
freediver wrote on Jul 30th, 2013 at 6:56pm:
Right. Muslims are supposed to win.


No, they are supposed to fight until either a) the oppression stops or b) the enemy inclines towards peace.

freediver wrote on Jul 30th, 2013 at 6:56pm:
Then execute 700 people.


The enormous number of dhimis in the muslim world for centuries - a large portion of them jews - debunks your meme. The Banu Quraysa were traitors, they were a real existential threat to the fledgling muslim nation, they were given the standard punishment for treachery. Deal with it.
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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freediver
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Re: Either you are a practising Muslim or a non-practi
Reply #61 - Jul 30th, 2013 at 8:29pm
 
It was not standard at all. Not then. Not today. It was a low point, even by the brutal standards of 7th century arab tribal warfare. Nor were they a threat. All 700 of them were captives. They were POWs. They posed no threat at all. The only thing they posed was an opportunity for Muhammed to make his name.
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Lord Herbert
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Re: Either you are a practising Muslim or a non-practi
Reply #62 - Jul 30th, 2013 at 8:57pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Jul 30th, 2013 at 6:17pm:
Lord Herbert wrote on Jul 30th, 2013 at 3:10pm:
I'll ask you again: When has the West waged a war against a people for the reason that they are Muslims?


I have no idea how we got to this topic, but I never said the west wages war on muslims. I know a lot of muslims make this statement, but its idiotic.


Well said. I might even campaign on your behalf to have you elected as an imam in your local area.

polite_gandalf wrote on Jul 30th, 2013 at 6:17pm:
The US typically support islamic extremists - like they are doing in Syria now,


Correct.

It's a little unnerving that so many military decisions made by the US are patently absurd for being bereft of commonsense and in complete disregard for consequences.

Many of the rebel militia in Syria are allied to al-Qaeda and its many imitators.

Apparently the US government believes its a good strategy to donate plane-loads of ordnance to these extremists.

polite_gandalf wrote on Jul 30th, 2013 at 6:17pm:
and target secular almost anti-islamic regimes like Saddam, and more recently Libya. Thats been the pattern for most of the post war period.


In matters of military decision-making I don't think the US administration has been able to find its own arse with both hands for many years now.

polite_gandalf wrote on Jul 30th, 2013 at 6:17pm:
What was your point again?


Grin
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True Colours
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Re: Either you are a practising Muslim or a non-practi
Reply #63 - Jul 30th, 2013 at 9:45pm
 
freediver wrote on Jul 30th, 2013 at 8:29pm:
...They were POWs...

According to modern definitions to qualify as a POW you must have conducted military operations according to the laws and customs of war.

Attacking the state you live in providing aid to the enemy does not fall within the normal accepted rules and customs of war.

The Qurayzas were criminal traitors, and did not deserve the protection one might normally give to a prisoner of war.

Anyone who aids the enemy in times of war is liable to the death penalty, and is not a POW.
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Re: Either you are a practising Muslim or a non-practi
Reply #64 - Jul 30th, 2013 at 10:00pm
 
Quote:
According to modern definitions to qualify as a POW you must have conducted military operations according to the laws and customs of war.


Muhammed attacked them. They attempted to defend themselves. That counts.

Quote:
Attacking the state you live in providing aid to the enemy does not fall within the normal accepted rules and customs of war.


Except that they did not actually do any attcking, did they? This claim of yours always vanishes into thin air when I ask for any details.

Quote:
Anyone who aids the enemy in times of war is liable to the death penalty, and is not a POW.


All 700 of them aided the enemy? Plus the women and children they enslaved and raped? Is this the kind of crap the Koran teaches you to spin?
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True Colours
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Re: Either you are a practising Muslim or a non-practi
Reply #65 - Jul 30th, 2013 at 10:17pm
 
The Qurazas aided the enemy in time of war and attacked Muslims.

Can you provide proof that any of their women were raped?

Of course facts are not important to liars like you are they Freediver?
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Re: Either you are a practising Muslim or a non-practi
Reply #66 - Jul 31st, 2013 at 7:58am
 
True Colours wrote on Jul 30th, 2013 at 10:17pm:
Can you provide proof that any of their women were raped?


Grin Grin Grin

Can you provide proof that Mohamed was the Messenger of Allah?
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True Colours
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Re: Either you are a practising Muslim or a non-practi
Reply #67 - Jul 31st, 2013 at 1:15pm
 
Lord Herbert wrote on Jul 31st, 2013 at 7:58am:
Can you provide proof that Mohamed was the Messenger of Allah?


What are the signs of a true prophet?

Prophets preach monotheism. Muhammed only ever taught monotheism.


Prophets are sent with miracles. Muhammed was accompanied by a number of miracles - one of these is the Quran.

Quote:
Say: "[Even] if mankind and the spirits were together to try to produce the like of this Qur'an, they could not produce the like thereof, even if they helped one another."

- the Quran, al-Isra', v.88



Quote:
And if you (Arab pagans, Jews, and Christians) are in doubt concerning that which We have sent down (i.e. the Qur'an) to Our slave (Muhammad Peace be upon him ), then produce a Surah (chapter) of the like thereof and call your witnesses (supporters and helpers) besides God, if you are truthful.

- the Quran, al-Baqarah, v.23



The Quran is a multi-faceted miracle. What convince me that it was the word of God is its authoritative nature - no man can talk the way God does. Try and write a book like it - nobody has ever written anything like it in human history.

Another amazing thing is the millions of people who have memorised the whole Quran even today 1400 years after it was first revealed.


Quote:
And We have indeed made the Qur'an easy to understand and remember...

- the Quran, Qamar, v.17


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« Last Edit: Jul 31st, 2013 at 2:26pm by True Colours »  
 
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Lord Herbert
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Re: Either you are a practising Muslim or a non-practi
Reply #68 - Jul 31st, 2013 at 1:34pm
 
True Colours ~ if your religion gives you comfort and strength in your life, then good luck to you.

**********

The rattan should have a place in law.

...
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« Last Edit: Jul 31st, 2013 at 5:56pm by Lord Herbert »  
 
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Re: Either you are a practising Muslim or a non-practi
Reply #69 - Aug 1st, 2013 at 7:26pm
 
True Colours wrote on Jul 30th, 2013 at 10:17pm:
The Qurazas aided the enemy in time of war and attacked Muslims.

Can you provide proof that any of their women were raped?

Of course facts are not important to liars like you are they Freediver?


Can you provide one single example, in the entire history of Islam, of a Muslim man being punished under islamic law for raping his wife or his sex slave?
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True Colours
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Re: Either you are a practising Muslim or a non-practi
Reply #70 - Aug 1st, 2013 at 7:36pm
 
freediver wrote on Aug 1st, 2013 at 7:26pm:
Can you provide one single example, in the entire history of Islam, of a Muslim man being punished under islamic law for raping his wife or his sex slave?


No I am not a professor of Islamic history or law.

Can you provide any example of a man ever being punished for raping his slave in any culture?

Can you provide any example prior to 1970 of a man being punished for raping his wife in any country in the world?
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Re: Either you are a practising Muslim or a non-practi
Reply #71 - Aug 1st, 2013 at 8:21pm
 
Quote:
No I am not a professor of Islamic history or law.


You just finished typing out an extract from a book so you could post it here. It appears to be the first time anyone has ever posted that extract online, even though you claim it is very famous. Not knowing what you are talking about has obviously never stopped you before.

So tell us TC, what are we supposed to make of Islam considering sex to be a man's right and a woman's responsibility?

What are we supposed to make of Islam permitting polygamy and the capturing of concubines on the battlefield?

What are we supposed to make of Muslims who are otherwise an endless source of transparent spin when it comes to Islam suddenly pulling out the "I am not an expert" line when it comes to rape?

Quote:
Can you provide any example of a man ever being punished for raping his slave in any culture?


Having a slave is illegal. The yanks fought a war over it. If you really find it hard to believe that someone might have been punished for having slaves (let alone raping them), I'm sure I could google it for you. In fact some rich Saudis were recently busted with slaves in London. I just find it hard to believe that you would need an example to demonstrate that slavery and rape is illegal. Or is this merely yet another pointless deflection?

Quote:
Can you provide any example prior to 1970 of a man being punished for raping his wife in any country in the world?


What would the point be? Would it shed any light on whether Islam permits rape? Or is this merely yet another transparent moral equivalence deflection?

BTW, how did that women's rights movement of the 1970's go in Muslim countries? Did it hit some kind of barrier that is incomprehensible to you? Or do they already have equal rights?
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