Australian Politics Forum - Why would anyone support Thommo?

Aussie

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Re: Why would anyone support Thommo?
Reply #210 - Jul 30^th, 2013 at 2:31pm

Verge wrote on Jul 30^th, 2013 at 2:22pm:

While it is a noble concept of innocent before guilty, I also think that there needs to be certain things happen while the judicial process runs its course.

I think once a person is charged with a serious offence, they should set aside from their position, note step aside, not resign, while the process runs its course.

After a verdict then the person may either return or resign depending on the outcome.

If you are to maintain any amount of intergrity in our nations leaders we need to ensure that they carry on in a manner fitting of the position they hold, one being of trust, intergrity and being seen to do the right thing.

We dont need pollies from opposite sides of the house throwing mud every chance they can because someone is determined to carry on in their positions after charges have been laid, nor is it a good look.

I have no issue with people standing down on full pay while the process does what it needs to.

This is the case in many other professions and one that should happen in our political system.

I think the person should be granted an automatic pair during the leave of absence to prevent actions like that of the coalition getting grubby with Ashby to use it to unsettle a majority in the house.

How does an elected politician stand aside and still do his job as an elected representative? I disagree with your concept Verge. The Constitution sets out the circumstances in which a politician is disqualified, and the Ashby case demonstrates exactly why we ought follow the Constitution. People like Abbott will do anything to hunt down a political opponent (Pauline H.) and Ashby has shown us exactly how the judiciual process can be manipulated/abused to embarrass. What about Utegate? Should Rudd have stood down?

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Verge

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Re: Why would anyone support Thommo?
Reply #213 - Jul 30^th, 2013 at 2:36pm

Aussie wrote on Jul 30^th, 2013 at 2:31pm:

Verge wrote on Jul 30^th, 2013 at 2:22pm:

While it is a noble concept of innocent before guilty, I also think that there needs to be certain things happen while the judicial process runs its course.

I think once a person is charged with a serious offence, they should set aside from their position, note step aside, not resign, while the process runs its course.

After a verdict then the person may either return or resign depending on the outcome.

If you are to maintain any amount of intergrity in our nations leaders we need to ensure that they carry on in a manner fitting of the position they hold, one being of trust, intergrity and being seen to do the right thing.

We dont need pollies from opposite sides of the house throwing mud every chance they can because someone is determined to carry on in their positions after charges have been laid, nor is it a good look.

I have no issue with people standing down on full pay while the process does what it needs to.

This is the case in many other professions and one that should happen in our political system.

I think the person should be granted an automatic pair during the leave of absence to prevent actions like that of the coalition getting grubby with Ashby to use it to unsettle a majority in the house.

How does an elected politician stand aside and still do his job as an elected representative? I disagree with your concept Verge. The Constitution sets out the circumstances in which a politician is disqualified, and the Ashby case demonstrates exactly why we ought follow the Constitution. People like Abbott will do anything to hunt down a political opponent (Pauline H.) and Ashby has shown us exactly how the judiciual process can be manipulated/abused to embarrass. What about Utegate? Should Rudd have stood down?

I made it quite clear people should stand down once charged.

I dont think people like Thommo can represent their electorate while once charged anyway, as proven with Thommo.

By continuing to show up day after day all it does it further agrivate the situation and go to further poison the public and allow people like abbott to continue to throw mud.

I dont think they can be active representatives while things like this are going on, and by allowing a pair it places the oppositions at no advantage anyway.

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And why not, if you will permit me; why shouldn’t I, if you will permit me; spend my first week as prime minister, should that happen, on this, on your, country - Abbott with the Garma People Aug 13

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Aussie

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Re: Why would anyone support Thommo?
Reply #214 - Jul 30^th, 2013 at 2:48pm

Quote:

I made it quite clear people should stand down once charged.

I dont think people like Thommo can represent their electorate while once charged anyway, as proven with Thommo.

By continuing to show up day after day all it does it further agrivate the situation and go to further poison the public and allow people like abbott to continue to throw mud.

I dont think they can be active representatives while things like this are going on, and by allowing a pair it places the oppositions at no advantage anyway.

I can easliy see your point, but it fails to take into account that politicians like Abbott will do anything to be in Government. Windsor will attest to that.

What if Gretch had not been found out early as an idiot, Rudd would have been charged, and your concept has him stand down. Yes, I know you want a pair in that circumstance, but that hardly compensates for the damage done against Rudd (by stepping down) politically, even though he was 100% innocent of any wrong doing.

Nah, we'll have to go with what we've got (the Constitution) in an imperfect world where power at any cost is the name of the game.

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Verge

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Re: Why would anyone support Thommo?
Reply #215 - Jul 30^th, 2013 at 2:53pm

Aussie wrote on Jul 30^th, 2013 at 2:48pm:

Quote:

I made it quite clear people should stand down once charged.

I dont think people like Thommo can represent their electorate while once charged anyway, as proven with Thommo.

By continuing to show up day after day all it does it further agrivate the situation and go to further poison the public and allow people like abbott to continue to throw mud.

I dont think they can be active representatives while things like this are going on, and by allowing a pair it places the oppositions at no advantage anyway.

I can easliy see your point, but it fails to take into account that politicians like Abbott will do anything to be in Government. Windsor will attest to that.

What if Gretch had not been found out early as an idiot, Rudd would have been charged, and your concept has him stand down. Yes, I know you want a pair in that circumstance, but that hardly compensates for the damage done against Rudd (by stepping down) politically, even though he was 100% innocent of any wrong doing.

Nah, we'll have to go with what we've got (the Constitution) in an imperfect world where power at any cost is the name of the game.

I think we will need to agree to disagree.

There is one way we could remove these sorts of actions of accusations at any cost without consequences. Remove parlimentary priviledge.

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And why not, if you will permit me; why shouldn’t I, if you will permit me; spend my first week as prime minister, should that happen, on this, on your, country - Abbott with the Garma People Aug 13

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Dnarever

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Re: Why would anyone support Thommo?
Reply #216 - Jul 30^th, 2013 at 3:48pm

cods wrote on Jul 30^th, 2013 at 1:31pm:

Dnarever wrote on Jul 30^th, 2013 at 1:01pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 30^th, 2013 at 9:53am:

Dnarever wrote on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 9:42pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 7:35pm:

there is a HIGHER standard for MPs. I don't know why you don't know that.

Yes if you are not an MP you are allowed to steal and the laws don't matter. But of course if you are a Liberal MP then the laws don't matter anyway.

Why is it as soon as you start taking of HIGHER STANDARDS or PRINCIPLES labor supports suddenly seem unable to understand the argument.

There are hundreds of examples which show that you are only interested in applying higher standards to those you oppose.

Mr Abbott can be accused of multiple assults and bullying, telling all sorts of lies, setting up slush funds involved in dubious political set ups etc and all is good, no need for any standards what so ever.

AND YOU OF ALL PEOPLE DONT DO THE SAME...OMG

pot calling kettle.. Roll Eyes

Pot replying to Black kettle

s

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« Last Edit: Jul 30^th, 2013 at 5:13pm by Dnarever »

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Dnarever

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Re: Why would anyone support Thommo?
Reply #217 - Jul 30^th, 2013 at 4:08pm

cods wrote on Jul 30^th, 2013 at 1:20pm:

can you link that up for dna.. I must admit I havent read it.. I thought the $9000 was a one off...but if it was decades then I think we should all be aware of it and not just the few dont you?..

I will give the benefit of the doubt to a first even a second but after that????..

so when did he start and has he stopped??..

thank you.

That was the point the 10,000 was a one off with several different one off components but the cycle events etc were obviously different one off's of his personal costs put on the public account.

http://www.finance.gov.au/publications/parliamentarians-reporting/docs/T28/ABBOT...

Cycling from Gold Coast to Sydney Allowances. $345 a day.

01 Apr 11 01 Apr 11 Gold Coast Office Holder - Official Business 1 $345.00 $345.00
02 Apr 11 02 Apr 11 Kyogle Office Holder - Official Business 1 $345.00 $345.00
03 Apr 11 03 Apr 11 Grafton Office Holder - Official Business 1 $115.00 $115.00
04 Apr 11 04 Apr 11 Dorrigo Office Holder - Official Business 1 $345.00 $345.00
05 Apr 11 05 Apr 11 Armidale Office Holder - Official Business 1 $345.00 $345.00
06 Apr 11 06 Apr 11 Walcha Office Holder - Official Business 1 $345.00 $345.00
07 Apr 11 07 Apr 11 Gloucester Office Holder - Official Business 1 $345.00 $345.00
08 Apr 11 08 Apr 11 Cessnock Office Holder - Official Business 1 $345.00 $345.00
09 Apr 11 09 Apr 11 Ettalong Beach Office Holder - Official Business 1 $345.00 $345.00

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Dnarever

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Re: Why would anyone support Thommo?
Reply #218 - Jul 30^th, 2013 at 4:10pm

Verge wrote on Jul 30^th, 2013 at 2:53pm:

Aussie wrote on Jul 30^th, 2013 at 2:48pm:

Quote:

I made it quite clear people should stand down once charged.

I dont think people like Thommo can represent their electorate while once charged anyway, as proven with Thommo.

By continuing to show up day after day all it does it further agrivate the situation and go to further poison the public and allow people like abbott to continue to throw mud.

I dont think they can be active representatives while things like this are going on, and by allowing a pair it places the oppositions at no advantage anyway.

I can easliy see your point, but it fails to take into account that politicians like Abbott will do anything to be in Government. Windsor will attest to that.

What if Gretch had not been found out early as an idiot, Rudd would have been charged, and your concept has him stand down. Yes, I know you want a pair in that circumstance, but that hardly compensates for the damage done against Rudd (by stepping down) politically, even though he was 100% innocent of any wrong doing.

Nah, we'll have to go with what we've got (the Constitution) in an imperfect world where power at any cost is the name of the game.

I think we will need to agree to disagree.

There is one way we could remove these sorts of actions of accusations at any cost without consequences. Remove parlimentary priviledge.

We have seen a mountain of vexacious attacks and attempts to have people charged as it is, Wonder if something like this would only make it worse?

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Aussie

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Re: Why would anyone support Thommo?
Reply #219 - Jul 30^th, 2013 at 4:15pm

Quote:

For the 2010 Pollie Pedal, Tony Abbott claimed $1,439.00 in expenses.

For the 2011 Pollie Pedal, Tony Abbott claimed $3,657.00 in expenses.

For the 2012 Pollie Pedal, Tony Abbott claimed $3,141.00 in expenses.

That’s a total of $8,237.00 in expenses ― and it doesn’t include Tony Abbott’s extremely high salary.

The expenses covering the 2013 Pollie Pedal are yet to be released, however, taxpayers will once again pick up those expenses as well, no doubt.

That takes it up to Strike 4, just on his 'Pollie Pedal', Cods, and it is only one of the matters referred to in that link I gave you.

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longweekend58

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Re: Why would anyone support Thommo?
Reply #220 - Jul 30^th, 2013 at 5:00pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 30^th, 2013 at 10:10am:

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 30^th, 2013 at 9:59am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 30^th, 2013 at 8:56am:

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 5:40pm:

wow... I never knew that!!!

the point was that he has been investigated several times and now facing both civil and criminal charges. That hardly amounts to the smell of innocence and integrity, does it. plenty of politicians and senior employees in large companies have stepped aside once charged with such things as a matter of honesty and integrity and come back once the charges were defeated.

but no thommo. but always good to see you lot defending such behaviour. it explains so much.

Well, now you do know that.

Also, being "investigated several times and now facing both civil and criminal charges" is not the same as being convicted of a crime.

And finally, I'm not "defending such behaviour". Quite the opposite: if he's found guilty on these charges he should have the book thrown at him. No sympathy at all.

So far though, no conviction.

We'll all wait and see. Unless, of course, you'd rather just do away with our court system. Roll Eyes

If this were a court of law you would have a point. But last time I looked, it was an OPINION forum where people are permitted and encouraged to hold an opinion on the basis of what they have seen and heard. Thommo is scum.

Yes, I'm sure you form many opinions based on your observations of the Bolt Report and Channel 7 "News".

Thankfully, that's where you and I differ.

presumptuous little turd. I don't watch TV news at all and have never watched Bolt. I know it confuses you left-wingers but there are people who form their opinions based on a variety of information and are capable of disagreeing with you. if you want to debate on facts and figures etc =go right ahead.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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longweekend58

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Re: Why would anyone support Thommo?
Reply #221 - Jul 30^th, 2013 at 5:02pm

Aussie wrote on Jul 30^th, 2013 at 10:12am:

Quote:

it would be easier to debate with you if you understood the substance of the argument. ask yourself the question as to why the police investigated and charged Slipper while they have not charged anyone of the dozens asked to make repayments in allowances in the last few years??? Could perhaps the reason be one of INTENT??

Try and think about it.

Melielongtime, the person who has no idea is you, and the biggest giggle is that it seems you have no idea that you have no idea.

Slipper was charged and Abbott has not been charged, not because of intent, but because someone referred Slipper's matter by way of complaint to the AFP!

*Click on the words 'someone referred Slipper's matter by way of complaint to the AFP.'*

and you think that a mere referral by labor to the AFP would result in abbott being charged?? if it were that bleeding easy, do you not think it would have happened?

you must have been a pretty lousy lawyer based on your understanding on here.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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longweekend58

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Re: Why would anyone support Thommo?
Reply #222 - Jul 30^th, 2013 at 5:06pm

Verge wrote on Jul 30^th, 2013 at 10:12am:

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 30^th, 2013 at 9:49am:

Verge wrote on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 8:27pm:

The job of an opposition is to hold the govermemt to account, represent their constituents and to provide a viable alternative.

It is not to dismantle a sitting government with sleaze and innuendo, nor miss represent the true position of the economy.

How many times did they attempt to suspend standing orders?

Abbots junk yard dog routine has gone on long enough and has done nothing to portray our leaders to a positive light.

I hope we get another hung parliament to teach the barstards a lesson that if they want to play the man and not the ball we will elect neither of them again.

oh please... do you spend your days watching Play School? You are behaving as if every labor opposition has not done exactly the same thing and worse. When you talk about the Libs misrepresenting the state of the economy you fail to state that Labor - IN GOVT - has done just that and far worse. How can a budget go from small surplus to massive deficit in a couple months without deliberate misrepresentation?

But mostly, I am amused and disappointed that you seme to understand little of the true nature of politics which is and has always been... A FIGHT.

You must hate our legal system too. it is essentially the same thing.

You see this is the difference between you and I.

You accept the behaviour because you like to point at the other side and say "but they did it too".

I was thinking you you might be a bit more visionary and expect our pollies to make themselves more accountable and to behaviour in a manner which they are elected to be - leaders.

I dont accept poor form because the others guys did it too. It is never an excuse, and by condoning it you are giving them a green tick to be dishonest as long as the end justifies the means.

you are a different person than before you left. now you seem to adopts positions that re either black or white - a bit like a well written greens-lose. Politics is never going to be a gentlemans game any more than courts area going to be so. they are adversarial in DESIGN - not simply nature. An opposition leader that does not oppose and criticise will merely fail and let the govt get away with anything and everything.

how am I supposed to debate to any value with you when you simply change your opinions to suit the argument? are you Rudd?

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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longweekend58

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Re: Why would anyone support Thommo?
Reply #223 - Jul 30^th, 2013 at 5:08pm

buzzanddidj wrote on Jul 30^th, 2013 at 11:56am:

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 5:37pm:

Dnarever wrote on Jul 28^th, 2013 at 8:03pm:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jul 28^th, 2013 at 7:51pm:

There were people on here happy that Thomson would get away with it and stay in parliament just to stop Tony Abbott winning a no confidence vote.

There seems some very light morality these days.

The only reason that Thomson was perused so relentlessly was for that same vote.

yeah... bugger that whole democracy thing!

Where was that whole

"democracy thing"

in December, 2008 - when the allegations first went on the public record ?

No-one had HEARD of him - prior to the current hung parliament

Labor were informed PRIOR to 2007 to dump him because of the allegations. but they declined.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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Aussie

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Re: Why would anyone support Thommo?
Reply #224 - Jul 30^th, 2013 at 5:09pm

longweekend58 wrote on Jul 30^th, 2013 at 5:02pm:

Aussie wrote on Jul 30^th, 2013 at 10:12am:

Quote:

it would be easier to debate with you if you understood the substance of the argument. ask yourself the question as to why the police investigated and charged Slipper while they have not charged anyone of the dozens asked to make repayments in allowances in the last few years??? Could perhaps the reason be one of INTENT??

Try and think about it.

Melielongtime, the person who has no idea is you, and the biggest giggle is that it seems you have no idea that you have no idea.

Slipper was charged and Abbott has not been charged, not because of intent, but because someone referred Slipper's matter by way of complaint to the AFP!

*Click on the words 'someone referred Slipper's matter by way of complaint to the AFP.'*

and you think that a mere referral by labor to the AFP would result in abbott being charged?? if it were that bleeding easy, do you not think it would have happened?

you must have been a pretty lousy lawyer based on your understanding on here.

Yeah, I was lousy....for 33 years. When I retired, I was an expert on lousy. And guess what? I agree with you that the explanation given to distinguish between Slipper charged and Abbott not charged makes no logical sense......but it is what happened. Both allegedly rorted (with intent) their entitlements, yet only one is charged.

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