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Frauds' granted refugee status (Read 6513 times)
Dirty Paki Khunt
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Re: Frauds' granted refugee status
Reply #15 - Jun 22nd, 2013 at 11:58am
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Jun 20th, 2013 at 4:34pm:
Greg Sheridan wrote:
Quote:
The refugee convention envisages people fleeing across borders to avoid persecution. Consider Sri Lankan Tamils. There are tens of millions of Tamils living next door to Sri Lanka in India. They are certainly not persecuted. But India is poorer than Sri Lanka. Australia is much richer. So they choose Australia, not India. That is an immigration decision, not a refugee decision.
Consider Iranians, now the biggest source of illegal arrivals in Australia. Iran has a horrible government but it does not persecute big minority populations internally. Everyone deals with the same horrible political system.


Sheridan is being dishonest. Take a look at a map of the signatories to the refugee convention:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3c/Refugeeconvention.PNG/8...

They don't go to India, because India is not a signatory to the convention. They probably wouldn't even be accepted - as India is under no international obligation to accept them. .


That’s strange, because India has accepted millions of Tibetan refugees over the years.

But yes, India did have a problem with Sri Lankan Tamils, who it saw as trouble makers. India worked hard to stay well out of the Sri Lankan civil war. The state of Tamil Nadu may well have had different views, as they have taken in a number of Sri Lankan Tamils.
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Soren
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Re: Frauds' granted refugee status
Reply #16 - Jun 22nd, 2013 at 5:05pm
 
Dirty Paki Khunt wrote on Jun 22nd, 2013 at 11:00am:
Old boy, it’s good to see you providing some sound, credible evidence to back up your case. I can see how it would be in immigration officers’ interests to approve refugee claims. This makes perfect sense.

I have also seen the sense of entitlement many Iranians bring with them. This group, in my experience, are most adept at milking the system for what it’s worth. Iranians themselves have also told me this.

But one thing is unclear to me - why would Iranians come by boat? Tehran’s got a huge airport, Iranians do not struggle to get tourist visas to Australia (as Afghans and Sri Lankans do), and there’s a huge Iranian community to offer accommodation and make family visits legitimate.

Why come by boat when they can fly at a fraction of the price?



They do have trouble with getting visas - tourist, student, 457, etc.
http://www.dfat.gov.au/un/unsc_sanctions/iran_autonomous_sanctions.html

In Malaysia and Indonesia they are given visas on arrival, so they only need  passport (which inexplicably gets misplaced once they are on the boats.)
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« Last Edit: Jun 22nd, 2013 at 5:16pm by Soren »  
 
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Dirty Paki Khunt
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Re: Frauds' granted refugee status
Reply #17 - Jun 22nd, 2013 at 8:46pm
 
Soren wrote on Jun 22nd, 2013 at 5:05pm:
Dirty Paki Khunt wrote on Jun 22nd, 2013 at 11:00am:
Old boy, it’s good to see you providing some sound, credible evidence to back up your case. I can see how it would be in immigration officers’ interests to approve refugee claims. This makes perfect sense.

I have also seen the sense of entitlement many Iranians bring with them. This group, in my experience, are most adept at milking the system for what it’s worth. Iranians themselves have also told me this.

But one thing is unclear to me - why would Iranians come by boat? Tehran’s got a huge airport, Iranians do not struggle to get tourist visas to Australia (as Afghans and Sri Lankans do), and there’s a huge Iranian community to offer accommodation and make family visits legitimate.

Why come by boat when they can fly at a fraction of the price?



They do have trouble with getting visas - tourist, student, 457, etc.
http://www.dfat.gov.au/un/unsc_sanctions/iran_autonomous_sanctions.html

In Malaysia and Indonesia they are given visas on arrival, so they only need  passport (which inexplicably gets misplaced once they are on the boats.)


I know Iranians with family members who come over for holidays. Yes, they need to apply, as all tourists do. As far as I know, only New Zealanders can get in without applying for a visa.

And the Queen. One could hardly call her a country shopper, old chap.

A country owner, certainly.

Pity they overthrew their Shah, eh?
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It_is_the_Darkness
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Re: Frauds' granted refugee status
Reply #18 - Jun 22nd, 2013 at 10:24pm
 
Jasonofabitch
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on both cheeks  Tongue
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ian
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Re: Frauds' granted refugee status
Reply #19 - Jun 22nd, 2013 at 10:58pm
 
Dirty Paki Khunt wrote on Jun 22nd, 2013 at 11:58am:

But yes, India did have a problem with Sri Lankan Tamils, who it saw as trouble makers. India worked hard to stay well out of the Sri Lankan civil war. The state of Tamil Nadu may well have had different views, as they have taken in a number of Sri Lankan Tamils.

right. All the while selling arms to the Tamils, providing them with bases on Indian soil and logistical support. I thinkTamil Nadu being a state of India is the giveaway here.
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Re: Frauds' granted refugee status
Reply #20 - Jun 23rd, 2013 at 12:08am
 
ian wrote on Jun 22nd, 2013 at 10:58pm:
Dirty Paki Khunt wrote on Jun 22nd, 2013 at 11:58am:

But yes, India did have a problem with Sri Lankan Tamils, who it saw as trouble makers. India worked hard to stay well out of the Sri Lankan civil war. The state of Tamil Nadu may well have had different views, as they have taken in a number of Sri Lankan Tamils.

right. All the while selling arms to the Tamils, providing them with bases on Indian soil and logistical support. I thinkTamil Nadu being a state of India is the giveaway here.



And who the hell needs that shite here?
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Re: Frauds' granted refugee status
Reply #21 - Jun 23rd, 2013 at 1:20am
 
Soren wrote on Jun 23rd, 2013 at 12:08am:
ian wrote on Jun 22nd, 2013 at 10:58pm:
Dirty Paki Khunt wrote on Jun 22nd, 2013 at 11:58am:

But yes, India did have a problem with Sri Lankan Tamils, who it saw as trouble makers. India worked hard to stay well out of the Sri Lankan civil war. The state of Tamil Nadu may well have had different views, as they have taken in a number of Sri Lankan Tamils.

right. All the while selling arms to the Tamils, providing them with bases on Indian soil and logistical support. I thinkTamil Nadu being a state of India is the giveaway here.



And who the hell needs that shite here?


I concur, old chap. The enemy of our noble demokratic traditions, our proud Western culture; the liberty, reason and benign tolerance and generosity I know you hold so close to your heart, is Sri Lanka.

It has always been the enemy, it will always be the enemy, its very existance is defined by being the enemy - absolutely - eternally - on stilts. Stilts.

What would we do without them, eh?
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Re: Frauds' granted refugee status
Reply #22 - Jun 23rd, 2013 at 2:29am
 
Dirty Paki Khunt wrote on Jun 23rd, 2013 at 1:20am:
Soren wrote on Jun 23rd, 2013 at 12:08am:
ian wrote on Jun 22nd, 2013 at 10:58pm:
Dirty Paki Khunt wrote on Jun 22nd, 2013 at 11:58am:

But yes, India did have a problem with Sri Lankan Tamils, who it saw as trouble makers. India worked hard to stay well out of the Sri Lankan civil war. The state of Tamil Nadu may well have had different views, as they have taken in a number of Sri Lankan Tamils.

right. All the while selling arms to the Tamils, providing them with bases on Indian soil and logistical support. I thinkTamil Nadu being a state of India is the giveaway here.



And who the hell needs that shite here?


I concur, old chap. The enemy of our noble demokratic traditions, our proud Western culture; the liberty, reason and benign tolerance and generosity I know you hold so close to your heart, is Sri Lanka.

It has always been the enemy, it will always be the enemy, its very existance is defined by being the enemy - absolutely - eternally - on stilts. Stilts.

What would we do without them, eh?


Don't be a dickheaddle (not that you will listen).

Sri Lanka - not our problem. Disfunctional countries are NOT our problem. We are not here to take on all the fvckers who bugger up their own countries and then bail.
Australia has nuffin' to do wiv nuffin' in Sri Lanka. Where the bugger IS Sri Lanka, anyway??
Don't answer - who cares (other than  sri lankans) about where it is? Why should we take on their goddam burden?




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Re: Frauds' granted refugee status
Reply #23 - Jun 23rd, 2013 at 2:55pm
 
BRING MORE BOAT PEOPLE !!!!!!!!




Tongue
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Dirty Paki Khunt
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Re: Frauds' granted refugee status
Reply #24 - Jun 23rd, 2013 at 3:00pm
 
Know some Sri Lankans do you, old chap? That’s the spirit. Do you know what you are, old boy?

You’re a mingler - a meeter and greeter. People, places, cultures - you have a fervent curiousity for the human condition.

Keep up the good work, old boy. You might even learn some geography along the way, eh?
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Re: Frauds' granted refugee status
Reply #25 - Jun 23rd, 2013 at 3:37pm
 
Well young girl,
fancy meeting me?
Wink
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Re: Frauds' granted refugee status
Reply #26 - Jun 24th, 2013 at 11:47am
 
Dirty Paki Khunt wrote on Jun 22nd, 2013 at 11:44am:
I do, however, have my doubts about many Sri Lankan refugees. When I went there I met many people who had applied to come to Australia. A few asked my advice on how to get in. 


There are genuine refugees coming out of Sri Lanka.

Ever wonder why tamil refugees suddenly started being rejected seemingly out of the blue? A new process was introduced - known as "advanced screening", and it came directly from the PMs office. Gillard, in her wisdom, suddenly decided that 400 Sri Lankan asylum seekers per week were to be returned. Completely arbitrarily, with no consideration to how many of those were likely to be genuine. Sheridan's meme that department officials are pressured to approve claims is frankly a crock of sh!t.

Quote:
Asylum seeker 'enhanced screenings' dangerous: former official
7.30
By Hayden Cooper

Updated Mon Jun 10, 2013 9:02pm AEST

A former Immigration Department official has condemned Australia's process of so-called "enhanced screening" of asylum seekers as dangerous and says the department felt pressured by the Prime Minister's office.

Under enhanced screening, asylum seekers can be rejected based on their answers in an initial interview soon after arriving in Australia.

The method has been used to send more than 1,200 asylum seekers straight home, just days after they arrive on boats.

All were Sri Lankans, and the Australian Tamil Congress says some have ended up in prison once they are returned home.

Former Immigration Department official Greg Lake has told the ABC's 7.30 program he fears legitimate refugees have been rejected.

Mr Lake was the operations manager at the Nauru detention centre earlier this year, and he also held management positions at the Christmas Island and Scherger detention centres, before quitting in April.

He says the interviews begin with a simple question: "Why did you come to Australia?".

"And if they say, 'I've run for my life because this government is persecuting me, because I'm a Tamil', for example, that's the kind of thing we'll go and explore with further questions", he said.
Greg Lake Photo: Greg Lake was the operations manager at Nauru Detention Centre before quitting in April. (ABC)

"But if they didn't say anything along those lines ... if the question is asked and nothing is invoked, at times it can be done on one question, which I think is very dangerous, especially given the vulnerability, it's usually done within the first week or so of a person arriving, that's a very volatile time for someone who's just stepped off a boat."

He is concerned some legitimate refugees have been rejected.

"I would never say with 100 per cent confidence yes, but it wouldn't surprise me if we found out later we had [rejected legitimate refugees]," Mr Lake said.

In a statement, the Immigration Department says it rejects any suggestion the enhanced screening process denies asylum seekers an opportunity to demonstrate their protection claims.

But lawyer David Manne, from the Refugee and Immigration Legal Centre, disagrees.

"I have received personally credible evidence that some of these people coming here who have then been summarily expelled under this enhanced screening have raised serious and strong claims for refugee protection," Mr Manne said.
Tamils returned to Sri Lanka beaten, starved: refugee

7.30 spoke to one Sri Lankan man who passed the enhanced screening test.

"Nathan" is now in community detention, but says the interview was stressful.

"We were tired after the long journey and once we landed, when they asked these questions, we were puzzled and worried. Some couldn't answer it properly because they were tired," he said.

Nathan says his brother was rejected and sent home in December.

He says he has been held in Sri Lanka's Negombo prison ever since, along with other Tamil asylum seekers who were sent back by Australia.

"At the moment, 26 Tamil detainees are there, and some have been beaten and they are in different cells. My brother is afraid for his life. He has been beaten, he has been without food for many days," he said.

"His mother came to know only several days later. She can only talk to him from 30 metres away."

Both the Sri Lankan and Australian governments deny that Tamil Sri Lankans are persecuted.

But Nathan says that is not true.

"Still, people are facing rape, torture, and many, many things you know, that's why the Tamil people are leaving from Sri Lanka," he said.

Mr Manne says he is concerned about the issue.

"I mean at the end of the day, this is a very serious matter where many people appear to be being denied due process and are at risk, not only of violation of their basic rights but of serious miscarriages of justice where people could in fact be denied protection here and be sent back to the prospect of real danger such as torture or death," he said.
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« Last Edit: Jun 24th, 2013 at 11:53am by polite_gandalf »  

A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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Re: Frauds' granted refugee status
Reply #27 - Jun 24th, 2013 at 11:49am
 
continued...

Quote:
Pressure came from PM's office, former official says

Mr Lake says the pressure to deport as many Sri Lankan asylum seekers as possible comes directly from the Prime Minister's office.

He says late last year the Department was left in no doubt about Prime Minister Julia Gillard's intentions.

"The Prime Minister, as far as I was informed, had an expectation that at least 200 a week initially, and then there was an expectation of more like 400 a week would be returned from Christmas Island, or Darwin, but preferably Christmas Island straight to Colombo in Sri Lanka," he said.

"That was made very clear I think to the senior management at Immigration, the department, and they were then, not forced, but really they had no option but to come up with something as best as they could that would execute that expectation for the Prime Minister."

Mr Lake also says that when asylum seekers manage to get legal representation, the Immigration Department is much more cautious about deportations.

He says since the High Court challenge overturning the Malaysia Solution, the department has developed a "fear of injunction".

"Fear of injunction was rife... and I'm aware of at least one situation where a transfer flight was completely cancelled because there was a number of asylum seekers who had been selected for that flight who had legal representation," he said.

"Just the fact they had lawyers was enough."

He is now looking for a new career after quitting his job at Immigration.

He says he no longer felt comfortable doing the job.

"I was beginning to look back on some of the experiences I had had and wondering if I was part of the next horrific Australian story that we'll reflect on in 20 or 30 years' time," Mr Lake said.

"We might have another prime ministerial apology on this kind of thing."


http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-06-10/asylum-seeker-enhanced-screenings-dangerou...
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Re: Frauds' granted refugee status
Reply #28 - Jun 24th, 2013 at 11:23pm
 
I saw this, Gandalf, and in a quieter time Immigration would not be placed under such pressure.

However, when you’ve got a policy of mandatory detention, when the detention centres are full, and when the war is over, you need to make some tough decisions.

And I’m not sure that being tired after a long boat trip is going to cut it. Surely they’ve been preparing themselves for that very interview for months. Do they really need a few days to rest up to answer the most obvious questions they know they’re going to be asked?

People getting rejected from overflowing refugee camps in Africa do not always get the same chance - and this is the point of a "no advantage" boat policy.

I have no doubt Sri Lankans are imprisoned on their return. Leaving Sri Lanka without a visa is illegal there - no doubt due to pressure from our government.

Australia raised its refugee intake from 12000 to 20000. Those extra 8000 people a year deserve a fair assessment too.They shouldn’t have to have 10 grand and the plane fare to Indonesia to get asylum.

These are very tough choices, but they have to be made. When you take someone in who’s persecution is not altogether clear, you reject those escaping the Taliban, or an African civil war, or the religious police in Iran.

And those regimes don’t ask questions.

Given there are 50 million refugees awaiting resettlement around the world today, I think we need to make sure the 20,000 we take in are clear what they’re running from. It’s not a Greencard lottery, surely it’s how how risky it is for someone to return.
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« Last Edit: Jun 24th, 2013 at 11:33pm by Dirty Paki Khunt »  
 
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Re: Frauds' granted refugee status
Reply #29 - Jun 25th, 2013 at 10:20am
 
Karnal:

The first thing I would say is that you seem to be viewing this through the prism of guilty until proven innocent. I am not so cynical. When people risk their lives to reach our shores and claim they did it because their lives were threatened, then I tend to take their word for it. Perhaps that is naive of me. On the other hand I tend to take such claims seriously when we are talking about a regime that systematically slaughtered hundreds, if not thousands of innocent civilians at the end of the civil war, and who one human rights organisation claims, conducted a "politically ordered massacre of people who wanted to surrender or surrendered".

Yes, there is the option to go north to India, and thousands have done so. However, India not being a signatory to the international treaties, they are barred from getting help from international NGOs, and they are not resettled by the government - thus leaving them in permanent limbo. I have no problem with them looking for a permanent resettlement plan that will give themselves and their children a better future. And no, despite what the Sheridan's of this world will insinuate, "country shopping" is perfectly within the asylum seeker's rights under the international refugee conventions.

Dirty Paki Khunt wrote on Jun 24th, 2013 at 11:23pm:
However, when you’ve got a policy of mandatory detention, when the detention centres are full, and when the war is over, you need to make some tough decisions.


We only need to make "tough decisions" because successive governments have put us into this mess: the mess of insisting on offshore processing and legitimising the ridiculous notion that we are being "swamped" by these irregular arrivals. On the first point, the cost of offshore processing is obscene, and is completely unnecessary. Cost analyses have been done and it is beyond dispute that community processing would be many times cheaper. So why do we do it? Deterrent? What rubbish. The influx of arrivals we are seeing now should put rest to that silly myth - even the punitive measures the so called "expert panel" told us to put in place have only seen even more increases. Clearly asylum seekers are prepared to go through the pain of mandatory detention on a remote island for the (better than even - going by statistics) chance of receiving permanent residence in Australia. We all know the real reasons for offshore processing: out of sight out of mind - processing on other people's shores, its easy to keep the media and lawyers away, but not so for processing centres inside Australia.

Dirty Paki Khunt wrote on Jun 24th, 2013 at 11:23pm:
Australia raised its refugee intake from 12000 to 20000. Those extra 8000 people a year deserve a fair assessment too.They shouldn’t have to have 10 grand and the plane fare to Indonesia to get asylum.


Including the number of irregular arrivals as part of the overall intake quota is the government's buggered up policy that should be changed - and the blame for it certainly shouldn't be laid at the feet of the asylum seekers themselves. We should be accepting these irregular arrivals over and above the pledged intake of 20 000 "regular" refugees.

And will the sky fall if we do? Will a few extra thousand refugees per year destroy us? Why don't we ask the Germans or Italians, who despite their smaller geographical size, and much large populations, accept many more times the refugees we do. But of course that doesn't mean we should be aiming for those sorts of levels, and our geographic position (surrounded by water, as well as much further distance from source countries), ensures that we are never going to be "swamped" by refugees.
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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